Yes, they did.
But that shot (underside of the saucer) is different from the original ILM-film elements - the life-boats have details they don't have in the original an there are difference in the windows on the neck and other details.
It's a CG-shot now.
Interesting, a new shot from TNG-R released at TrekCore today shows a CG replacement of the E-D separating from EoF.
I think I know why they had to replace that one shot - if you look at the DVD there is a very strange distortion to the saucer section element in that shot. Must have been a fault present in the source material if they had to replace the shot. But I think the replacement shots for the most part are very convincing.
Guys, dont discuss this in this thread, discuss it in the TNG blu ray thread. This thread is for tobias' work specifically... BEsides, this exact issue is being discussed on the latest page of that thread anyway.
You know, I was looking at the orthos you posted a while back, and I was wondering... forgive me if you already answered this before and I missed it, but did you build this model to separate the saucer as well? If so, I was wondering if we could possibly see some orthos in separated mode, so we can see the detailing you did in those areas?
Well, the model itself can be seperated, but the sections on the inside have not been fully modelled yet. I will do that once in case I need it - but for now, I havenAât.
Well, the model itself can be seperated, but the sections on the inside have not been fully modelled yet. I will do that once in case I need it - but for now, I havenAât.
Ah, okay, cool. I look forward to that when the time comes.
Was there any part of this mesh that was particularly difficult to do? Was there something that gave you trouble, or did it turn out to be more or less routine for your ability?
The most tricky part are always the rounded shapes like the secondary hull, especially the neck. To get those as close as possible to the real model is indeed difficult, especially since there are two different real models and no correct blueprints. And even with those, it is hard to figure out the flow of the lines the farther away you get from the outlines. So yes, it was a challenging model.
Thank you - unfortunately, I wonAât be releasing this model to the public. I plan to use it in a project - and some other stuff that IAâll let you know when I can talk about it.
Right now, IAâve started the conversion of my TMP Enterprise to the Reliant. IAâll open a Wip thread about that soon.
Tobias, Congrats on the TNG deal, you probably are a bit tired of hearing that! Are you going to make the TMP Enterprise available in 3dsmax? Would you if I paid for it? For my private use only...Hope to hear from you soon...
The only full season of anything I've ever bought was Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood. I wasn't disappointed. I believe The Next Generation will be my second just to see the magnificent work Tobias has done.
Attachment not found.
A comparison I made from TrekCore of the original shot, the shot when it was re-used in Generations, and the new shot using Tobias' model. Is it bad that I kind of wish they had redone all the effects with the CG model?
Nicely found. Tobias, Mike (or Denise, can't remember which) mentioned that the VFX team for TNG-R made some modifications to your model. Any idea what they changed?
One thing I have noticed were the four square shaped parts of the hull (you also made them windows) in front of the Captain's Yacht on the underside of the saucer section. Those are actually not windows, but based on the technical manual they are the navigational deflector of the saucer section which would only be in use (and lit) in separated flight mode; much like the saucer section's impulse engines. They didn't always get this quite right in the shows either, though. And yes, I know, I'm too detail obsessed for my own good at times!
Either way it's a mindblowingly detailed and beautiful model. Really nice work!
One thing I have noticed were the four square shaped parts of the hull (you also made them windows) in front of the Captain's Yacht on the underside of the saucer section. Those are actually not windows, but based on the technical manual they are the navigational deflector of the saucer section which would only be in use (and lit) in separated flight mode; much like the saucer section's impulse engines. They didn't always get this quite right in the shows either, though.
Depends on the angle. They later retconned them into a deflector array, but Andrew Probert initially envisioned this area as a stargazing room (which is why it was not supposed to be lit as brightly as the other rooms).
Depends on the angle. They later retconned them into a deflector array, but Andrew Probert initially envisioned this area as a stargazing room (which is why it was not supposed to be lit as brightly as the other rooms).
Well, this is certainly true. I know there were a lot of design changes, I guess also partly because they were unable to actually shoot all those areas. Plus, I guess, with Ten Forward being introduced, such a room would almost (almost!) be obsolete.
I'm just one of those guys who (because they can) run a Win98 virtual machine, just so they can have access to software gems like the Interactive Technical Manual which provides us with this:
I'd just go with the officially established facts and the ITM, as well as the printed version, go with the deflector theory. While it's sad that certain areas were never realized, a nav deflector for the saucer module certainly makes sense!
They were probably always supposed to be windows until some fans were asking where the deflector was for when the saucer section was separated. So, they went, "Uh, here."
They were probably always supposed to be windows until some fans were asking where the deflector was for when the saucer section was separated. So, they went, "Uh, here."
This.
It's sad really, particularly because it can't go to warp so it doesn't need to have one. Even ships that do go to warp don't particularly need them, it just make deflecting asteroids and particles easier while at warp.
By the way, Tobias is probably facepalming seeing how we turned a necropost into a discussion in one of his treads.:)
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
I would think deflectors would be needed even at sub-light speed. I wouldn't want to run into even a small rock going 185,000 miles per second (speed of light is 186,000 miles per second). It's going to do some damage for sure.
I would think deflectors would be needed even at sub-light speed. I wouldn't want to run into even a small rock going 185,000 miles per second (speed of light is 186,000 miles per second). It's going to do some damage for sure.
True, but remember that:
1: Full impulse is only a quarter of the speed of light, which is still very fast of course.:p But you can't go faster without using M/AM, as you would need an amazing ammount of power output to move the ship.
2: Other elements of the ship can do the same function without needing so much power. Of course, they aren't dedicated, so they aren't as good as a deflector, but they still do the job. As said in Ex-Astris-Scientia:
The navigational deflector is an essential component of every Federation starship, as it is necessary to prevent interstellar particles from hitting the hull (as explained in the TNGTM and stated by Malcolm Reed in ENT: "Broken Bow"). But why are there certain ship classes, like the Miranda or the Constellation, without a deflector dish? A possible explanation lies in the TNGTM where the deflection system is described as consisting of two components: a low-power field to sweep small particles and a focused beam to deflect larger objects such as asteroids. It may be useful to integrate these components into a dish, together with the long-range sensors, but it is not necessary. I could imagine that an almost unnoticeable forcefield generator may be used to keep small particles away, while a phaser-like emitter or even the phasers themselves may take care of asteroids. So the Miranda and Constellation do have deflectors, we only don't know what they look like exactly and where they are located. It is the same on almost all alien ships, where a deflector can't be identified either.
In Star Trek: The Magazine (January 2003), Rick Sternbach suggests that the deflector grid, Bussard collector fields, tractor emitter and asymmetrical warp fields are working together to protect the hull on the Constellation. Whilst this sounds very complex compared to a dedicated deflector system, it is plausible if we look at the possible roles of the single systems. We may assume that the shields and warp field disperse small particles, while the Bussard collector can cut through this field combination to collect stray hydrogen. The tractor beam would be used to deflect larger objects.
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
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But that shot (underside of the saucer) is different from the original ILM-film elements - the life-boats have details they don't have in the original an there are difference in the windows on the neck and other details.
It's a CG-shot now.
I think I know why they had to replace that one shot - if you look at the DVD there is a very strange distortion to the saucer section element in that shot. Must have been a fault present in the source material if they had to replace the shot. But I think the replacement shots for the most part are very convincing.
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Ah, okay, cool. I look forward to that when the time comes.
I think they re-did at least one scene.
Tobias, Congrats on the TNG deal, you probably are a bit tired of hearing that! Are you going to make the TMP Enterprise available in 3dsmax? Would you if I paid for it? For my private use only...Hope to hear from you soon...
Chris
A comparison I made from TrekCore of the original shot, the shot when it was re-used in Generations, and the new shot using Tobias' model. Is it bad that I kind of wish they had redone all the effects with the CG model?
Oh, and they also added the neck interior for the saucer seperation shot.
There could be some more minor changes, but I think thatAâs about it.
One thing I have noticed were the four square shaped parts of the hull (you also made them windows) in front of the Captain's Yacht on the underside of the saucer section. Those are actually not windows, but based on the technical manual they are the navigational deflector of the saucer section which would only be in use (and lit) in separated flight mode; much like the saucer section's impulse engines. They didn't always get this quite right in the shows either, though. And yes, I know, I'm too detail obsessed for my own good at times!
Either way it's a mindblowingly detailed and beautiful model. Really nice work!
Well, this is certainly true. I know there were a lot of design changes, I guess also partly because they were unable to actually shoot all those areas. Plus, I guess, with Ten Forward being introduced, such a room would almost (almost!) be obsolete.
I'm just one of those guys who (because they can) run a Win98 virtual machine, just so they can have access to software gems like the Interactive Technical Manual which provides us with this:
itm_enterprise-d_saucer-deflector.jpg
I'd just go with the officially established facts and the ITM, as well as the printed version, go with the deflector theory. While it's sad that certain areas were never realized, a nav deflector for the saucer module certainly makes sense!
It's sad really, particularly because it can't go to warp so it doesn't need to have one. Even ships that do go to warp don't particularly need them, it just make deflecting asteroids and particles easier while at warp.
By the way, Tobias is probably facepalming seeing how we turned a necropost into a discussion in one of his treads.:)
True, but remember that:
1: Full impulse is only a quarter of the speed of light, which is still very fast of course.:p But you can't go faster without using M/AM, as you would need an amazing ammount of power output to move the ship.
2: Other elements of the ship can do the same function without needing so much power. Of course, they aren't dedicated, so they aren't as good as a deflector, but they still do the job. As said in Ex-Astris-Scientia: