I took notice of the Kobayashi Maru as it is the same shape as the current ship in discussion however the engineering hulls are large illuminated rectangles, segmented cargo containers by the look of it.
Here are the two best images of the KM I could pull out. Again, the cam cuts off about an inch from the top (maybe from all sides), so all we get are the bottom pontoons, a little of the main hull, and what looks like it might be a nacelle (Kelvin-style).
So far, I agree with Promus and Uni, it looks very similar to the Hood (I'm hoping I can get that name to stick ), with the exception that the secondary hulls (cargo pods?) are in this case much much longer than the nacelles.
[...]the Hood (I'm hoping I can get that name to stick )[...]
It's a cool name, but it's a bit specific, and once we find out what the ship's REAL name is it'll get confusing (that is, if it's not REALLY the USS Hood). I'd suggest using classification-style nomenclature for these ships based on the unique characteristics of their appearences; the "Hood" could be called the Quad (since it's got four...things) and the "Farragut" type ship could be called the Trike (three nacelles). Or we could just go by "Alpha" Type, "Beta" Type, etc. :thumb:
In that case, the Maru could be a Cargo Quad, since instead of having two secondary hulls like the Science Quad, it has two cargo modules (apparently).
I don't know about anybody else, but as a huge starship junkie, I'm finding it VERY invigorating to talk about NEW Star Trek ships instead of the same old starship types we've been obsessing about for years now.
I'd actually been referring to it as "the quad," good choice! Agreed also with the "trike."
I'm kind of disappointed that the Maru is a modified quad cause I had been hoping it would look like a space freighter or ocean liner in space, what with all the people it was supposed to hold.
And does anyone else thing those screenshots look like that shot from Starship Troopers?
It's a cool name, but it's a bit specific, and once we find out what the ship's REAL name is it'll get confusing (that is, if it's not REALLY the USS Hood). I'd suggest using classification-style nomenclature for these ships based on the unique characteristics of their appearences; the "Hood" could be called the Quad (since it's got four...things) and the "Farragut" type ship could be called the Trike (three nacelles). Or we could just go by "Alpha" Type, "Beta" Type, etc. :thumb:
In that case, the Maru could be a Cargo Quad, since instead of having two secondary hulls like the Science Quad, it has two cargo modules (apparently).
I don't know about anybody else, but as a huge starship junkie, I'm finding it VERY invigorating to talk about NEW Star Trek ships instead of the same old starship types we've been obsessing about for years now.
Oh I'm definitely glad to have new fodder, I was hoping for more new ships personally. In fact, the moment I saw them in the theater, I think I actually said "now I'm satisfied".
I agree, lets stick with Quad and Trike for now. I was using Hood and Farragut because I knew both of those ships were in the fleet, but you're right, it might get confusing. I think we can stick with Kobayashi Maru though, since we do know for sure that was the ship's name.
I don't think the Maru is a modified Quad though. I agree, it looks sort of similar, but its secondary hulls look like they are connected via vertical pylons, instead of diagonal pylons, and they're far larger. The single nacelle you can make out in the screenshot looks like it might come out from the rest of the ship horizontally too.
I'll try getting a better look at the Klingon ships, but they looked like pretty standard D-7s to me.
Hehe, glad to know I'm not the only one getting a major kick out of this - I'm holding back my enthusiasm for being able to do this again!!
You're right about the Maru not being a modified Quad - I looked at the blurry shots again and it almost looks like the cargo pylons are actually a part of the primary hull. The extra-wide pylons for the warp nacelles don't look like they attach directly to the nacelles, though - if you look at the second screenshot there, they almost look like they either attach to the side of the nacelle, or to a "roll-bar" that we can't see in that clipped picture.
Actually, if you look at it, it seems like there's only one pylon going from the main hull to where the nacelles are...I'll try to make an illustration to show what I mean.
EDIT: This is how I think the Maru is laid out:
Were there any other (clearer?) pictures of the Quad and Trike from the cam screenshots?
The Klingon ships did look like D-7's, although when they were destroyed you could clearly see the extra detailed markings of the K'Tinga battleships, so those aren't too new.
Thats interesting, I was getting something entirely different for the Maru. I've got an image to show. Note, I added in the "hump" and deflector from a little speculation. Might not actually be there. Of course, my entire design could be wrong.
You know, it's funny because when I saw the Kobayashi Maru in the movie, it reminded me of the design that's been going around for a few years now. I've attached the image (I can't remember who actually drew it). I think you can find it on Starship Schematics Database
Your version of the ship is pretty close to that design too, so maybe they producers ended up using something based on that?
I wish we could get some actual images of the models individually.
Definately!! It would certainly clear up the Maru inconsistancies - although "discovering" this by ourselves is more fun then being spoon-fed, wouldn't you say? :thumb:
The larger view of your Maru didn't work, but I could see the thumbnail image pretty well. Do you really think that the cargo modules could be that low? I defer to your theories, but I'm pretty sure they're closer to the primary hull. Also, that pylon going to the warp nacelle area sure looks like it's almost completely vertical, and anchors somewhere near the nacelle...
No no, don't defer to me just because I can supply the reference images, I'm plenty prone to mistakes; this is just my best guess so far.
Here are some color-coded outlines to show you what I'm seeing in the image:
I tried following the contours I was seeing. Please though, trace it how you're seeing it, I think it might be like one of those duck/rabbit pictures, and all I can see is the duck.
The larger view of your Maru didn't work, but I could see the thumbnail image pretty well. Do you really think that the cargo modules could be that low? I defer to your theories, but I'm pretty sure they're closer to the primary hull. Also, that pylon going to the warp nacelle area sure looks like it's almost completely vertical, and anchors somewhere near the nacelle...
The Maru image didn't work? Thats troubling, it works for me... I'll try attaching it instead.
I might have exaggerated some proportions on my first drawing, but its pretty much what I'm interpreting from the image. As you can see from the outlined picture, I'm interpreting that thing above the starboard cargo module as another diagonal pylon. the more I think about it though, considering the incredible similarities the ship seems to share with the old non-canon image of the Maru, it would seem to make more sense if it were connected the way you suggest...that seems like it would be a lot more similar to the "original" design.
looks interesting so far but I think the connecting pylons to the fuel storage compartment are more rounded and evenly in width. As a side note the thumbnail doesn't work so cold check it up close
Captain Mills, those pictures are from the cam version of the movie that we've been studying so intently all throughout this thread.
Paragon, here's my outline version of how I'm interpreting the Maru (the color code is the same that you had been using):
I think you can see both nacelles in that picture, and I'm convinced that the primary hull is "below" for several reasons. First, the movie's design styles seem to favor keeping the nacelles away from the hull (TOS style) rather than close to them (TNG style). It would also make more sense to have the cargo modules integrated into the primary hull, instead of far away on pylons, making easy access to the cargo pods from the primary hull impossible. I also think that the orange section between the nacelles functions as a sort of "secondary hull" and probably contains the deflector dish, a critical part of the ship that has thus far eluded our hypothesized designs for the Maru.
Again, I could be completely wrong, but using previous TOS design styles as a guide (with which I'm VERY familiar, being a hardcore TOS Purist and all that... :thumb: ), and also considering the logic of where you'd want the cargo pods, I'm pretty sure that the primary hull is at least on the bottom (and that's what I remember from the movie).
Watch, they'll release official pictures of this thing and we'll BOTH be right, because the official version of the Maru will probably be a mash-up of both our theories.
Alright, that gives me a better idea of how you're interpreting the shapes. I think that design would definitely hold pretty well with the design theory of the time, and with the older version...but I don't like the length angle of that second nacelle, and the unaccounted for part.
I hope we get official images...though I'm not holding my breath. I'll just be happy when we get the DVD and Blu-Ray, which should have far better quality than this crappy cam version, as well as a picture that isn't cut-off at the top.
*sigh* There are parts of this I'm sureboth of us are getting wrong..... I mean, ar we even sure its facing the way we think it is?
Hey, just got back from the movie and the Maru is pointed AWAY from the ship, we're seeing its backside, I don't think that's apparent from the screencaps, but it is a quad.
Second, the Quad is a split saucer and I would venture a guess that its saucer is slightly larger at the widest size than the saucer of the Enterprise, to make up for lost space.
VERY nice work on that 3D Quad, K.I.S.!! I'm a little confused, though; are you showing us the top and the bottom, or two different views of the top? The placement of the secondary hulls is confusing, unless you're showing top AND bottom.
UniversalTim, that's some BEAUTIFUL work you've got there, so thanks for posting the link to your thread!
*sigh* There are parts of this I'm sureboth of us are getting wrong..... I mean, ar we even sure its facing the way we think it is?
Well...let's not give up hope. BlueNeumann just got back from the movie and reported that the Maru IS facing away from the simulator ship. What's more, he seems to confirm that the Maru is a modified Quad with cargo bays instead of secondary hulls, as we originally thought. That should make it easier to fill in the vague areas of the ship; for one thing, it confirms your theory of two warp pylons instead of my single pylon hypothesis. Although with a lack of secondary hulls (and consequently deflector dishes) I'm sure that the center pod inbetween the nacelles is modified on the Maru variant (from regular Quad configuration) to contain its deflector.
It is cool, don't forget now that the nacelles are attached to the saucer, not the "turtleneck" (we're just making up all KINDS of terms now!).
I need to sketch out some ideas while the movie is still fresh in my mind of how that turtleneck would look, because I picture it would be like the back of the Enterprise saucer tapering down towards the wide impulse engines (the shapes LOOk Kelvin, but I'm sure they're textured like the big E).
Posts
So far, I agree with Promus and Uni, it looks very similar to the Hood (I'm hoping I can get that name to stick ), with the exception that the secondary hulls (cargo pods?) are in this case much much longer than the nacelles.
It's a cool name, but it's a bit specific, and once we find out what the ship's REAL name is it'll get confusing (that is, if it's not REALLY the USS Hood). I'd suggest using classification-style nomenclature for these ships based on the unique characteristics of their appearences; the "Hood" could be called the Quad (since it's got four...things) and the "Farragut" type ship could be called the Trike (three nacelles). Or we could just go by "Alpha" Type, "Beta" Type, etc. :thumb:
In that case, the Maru could be a Cargo Quad, since instead of having two secondary hulls like the Science Quad, it has two cargo modules (apparently).
I don't know about anybody else, but as a huge starship junkie, I'm finding it VERY invigorating to talk about NEW Star Trek ships instead of the same old starship types we've been obsessing about for years now.
I'm kind of disappointed that the Maru is a modified quad cause I had been hoping it would look like a space freighter or ocean liner in space, what with all the people it was supposed to hold.
And does anyone else thing those screenshots look like that shot from Starship Troopers?
Chris
Oh I'm definitely glad to have new fodder, I was hoping for more new ships personally. In fact, the moment I saw them in the theater, I think I actually said "now I'm satisfied".
I agree, lets stick with Quad and Trike for now. I was using Hood and Farragut because I knew both of those ships were in the fleet, but you're right, it might get confusing. I think we can stick with Kobayashi Maru though, since we do know for sure that was the ship's name.
I don't think the Maru is a modified Quad though. I agree, it looks sort of similar, but its secondary hulls look like they are connected via vertical pylons, instead of diagonal pylons, and they're far larger. The single nacelle you can make out in the screenshot looks like it might come out from the rest of the ship horizontally too.
I'll try getting a better look at the Klingon ships, but they looked like pretty standard D-7s to me.
You're right about the Maru not being a modified Quad - I looked at the blurry shots again and it almost looks like the cargo pylons are actually a part of the primary hull. The extra-wide pylons for the warp nacelles don't look like they attach directly to the nacelles, though - if you look at the second screenshot there, they almost look like they either attach to the side of the nacelle, or to a "roll-bar" that we can't see in that clipped picture.
Actually, if you look at it, it seems like there's only one pylon going from the main hull to where the nacelles are...I'll try to make an illustration to show what I mean.
EDIT: This is how I think the Maru is laid out:
Were there any other (clearer?) pictures of the Quad and Trike from the cam screenshots?
The Klingon ships did look like D-7's, although when they were destroyed you could clearly see the extra detailed markings of the K'Tinga battleships, so those aren't too new.
And here's an update on the Quad.
Your version of the ship is pretty close to that design too, so maybe they producers ended up using something based on that?
I wish we could get some actual images of the models individually.
Definately!! It would certainly clear up the Maru inconsistancies - although "discovering" this by ourselves is more fun then being spoon-fed, wouldn't you say? :thumb:
The larger view of your Maru didn't work, but I could see the thumbnail image pretty well. Do you really think that the cargo modules could be that low? I defer to your theories, but I'm pretty sure they're closer to the primary hull. Also, that pylon going to the warp nacelle area sure looks like it's almost completely vertical, and anchors somewhere near the nacelle...
Blast it, we at least need clearer images!!
Here are some color-coded outlines to show you what I'm seeing in the image:
I tried following the contours I was seeing. Please though, trace it how you're seeing it, I think it might be like one of those duck/rabbit pictures, and all I can see is the duck.
The Maru image didn't work? Thats troubling, it works for me... I'll try attaching it instead.
I might have exaggerated some proportions on my first drawing, but its pretty much what I'm interpreting from the image. As you can see from the outlined picture, I'm interpreting that thing above the starboard cargo module as another diagonal pylon. the more I think about it though, considering the incredible similarities the ship seems to share with the old non-canon image of the Maru, it would seem to make more sense if it were connected the way you suggest...that seems like it would be a lot more similar to the "original" design.
My main computer is currently en route home though, so I won't be able to get back to the files until tomorrow, or Friday.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/randomcoward/fleet1.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/randomcoward/fleet2a.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/randomcoward/fleet2.jpg
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/randomcoward/fleet3.jpg
Paragon, here's my outline version of how I'm interpreting the Maru (the color code is the same that you had been using):
I think you can see both nacelles in that picture, and I'm convinced that the primary hull is "below" for several reasons. First, the movie's design styles seem to favor keeping the nacelles away from the hull (TOS style) rather than close to them (TNG style). It would also make more sense to have the cargo modules integrated into the primary hull, instead of far away on pylons, making easy access to the cargo pods from the primary hull impossible. I also think that the orange section between the nacelles functions as a sort of "secondary hull" and probably contains the deflector dish, a critical part of the ship that has thus far eluded our hypothesized designs for the Maru.
Again, I could be completely wrong, but using previous TOS design styles as a guide (with which I'm VERY familiar, being a hardcore TOS Purist and all that... :thumb: ), and also considering the logic of where you'd want the cargo pods, I'm pretty sure that the primary hull is at least on the bottom (and that's what I remember from the movie).
Watch, they'll release official pictures of this thing and we'll BOTH be right, because the official version of the Maru will probably be a mash-up of both our theories.
I hope we get official images...though I'm not holding my breath. I'll just be happy when we get the DVD and Blu-Ray, which should have far better quality than this crappy cam version, as well as a picture that isn't cut-off at the top.
*sigh* There are parts of this I'm sure both of us are getting wrong..... I mean, ar we even sure its facing the way we think it is?
Second, the Quad is a split saucer and I would venture a guess that its saucer is slightly larger at the widest size than the saucer of the Enterprise, to make up for lost space.
Chris
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/2d-wips/52700-itrek-new-enterprise-3.html#post417449
So far, I've got the Enterprise and the Kelvin. Next the Farragut and the Hood...at least that's what I call them, the Quad and the Trike.
UniversalTim, that's some BEAUTIFUL work you've got there, so thanks for posting the link to your thread!
Well...let's not give up hope. BlueNeumann just got back from the movie and reported that the Maru IS facing away from the simulator ship. What's more, he seems to confirm that the Maru is a modified Quad with cargo bays instead of secondary hulls, as we originally thought. That should make it easier to fill in the vague areas of the ship; for one thing, it confirms your theory of two warp pylons instead of my single pylon hypothesis. Although with a lack of secondary hulls (and consequently deflector dishes) I'm sure that the center pod inbetween the nacelles is modified on the Maru variant (from regular Quad configuration) to contain its deflector.
No, I appreciate it, they look slightly better resolution than mine.
K.I.S: Please, go ahead and make models of the ships, the sooner we get more images of them, the better.
I need to sketch out some ideas while the movie is still fresh in my mind of how that turtleneck would look, because I picture it would be like the back of the Enterprise saucer tapering down towards the wide impulse engines (the shapes LOOk Kelvin, but I'm sure they're textured like the big E).
I'm so glad this thread is here.
Chris
Chris