No offense, but I'm still not convinced the Maru is a modified Quad. I think it probably shares some similarities with the Quad, but those nacelles look further off to the sid, and I don't see the cut-off saucer. I might end up seeing the movie again, I'll keep an eye out for it then. In the meantime, I'm going to try looking for another cam version that might have caught more of the screen.
Hey, no offense taken - we're all entitled to our own professional opinions. And until we get some solid reference material, all hypothesis are unproven and thus equally valid!
Let us know if you kind any other cam versions - I'll look for a few myself.
Ok, I just got back from seeing the movie again with a friend, and I took special care to pay close attention to the Maru, and I'm pretty confident I've got the shape down now, and its very similar to what I'd postulated already. The major difference is that it is much wider than I initially estimated, and it has no "hump" on the top, but instead, a large box shape at the aft, between the two impulse engines.
Unfortunately, the video card on my main computer is experiencing problems, so I might not be able to open Photoshop on it. I'll see what I can do though. Expect some sort of image soon.
I think you guys are doing a great thing here. As a fellow Star Trek ship fanatic, I tip my hat. Keep it up (until somebody releases the official 3D meshes or something)
Now...how about those DAC ships? The Romulan ones look pretty boring (miniNaradas), but the starfleet ships are nice.
My wife and I just got back from seeing it, and it gives a pretty good look at it through the viewscreen (better than the clipped clips we can see here). It's definitely got two nacelles on the top, and cargo-type containers on the bottom. It's a lot like the ship we see that has the two nacelles on top and the two engineering/shuttle-craft hulls on the bottom. To reinforce a comment above, it does look wider than it is long...
Edit: One more thing. All these ships and their new designs beg the question: What would the Daedalus look like Kelvinized? Just a thought!
Blast it Mills, now you've made me want to go and make up a Kelvinized Daedalus!!
Somewhat off-topic, but since this is sort of the unofficial discussion thread for the background ships in the movie, we can tally up the starships with confirmed names that we know of. There were seven (excluding the Enterprise) at Spacedock, and seven which made up the rescue armada to Vulcan. We know four of the names of these starships:
USS Hood
USS Farragut
USS Centaurus
USS Mayflower
...which leaves only three ships unaccounted for (as far as names go). Pretty good, I'd say!! Whee, this is fun!
I also got back from seeing the movie (in IMAX again...for the third time!!), and I managed to snap a crappy picture of the Maru with my phone. I also noticed the dual impulse engines on the "roll-bar" next to the warp nacelles - a pretty cool design characteristic, actually. It also seems to back Paragon's initial hypothesis that the primary hull is up top (instead of on the bottom like I thought), since that little point of light between the nacelles almost looks like a bridge dome, as well. Maybe the Maru doesn't have a roll-bar at all; maybe it's just a saucer with nacelles on either side of it, with cargo pods slung below it. One thing's for sure, Paragon - it's NOT a modified Quad. You were right!
As a funny note, that plume of flame from the exploding Klingon ship looks like a heart.
Yeah, when I saw the movie, I didn't see what I thought was a rollbar...it just looked like the back of the saucer/primary hull.
I did catch a better look at the third design in the fleet too, which appears to be a Kelvin saucer with a secondary hull below it in the middle, and two nacelles on either side. A lot like the Trike, but no rollbar.
^ I think we're getting ahead of ourselves now...we haven't figured out all the ships, yet!
I didn't catch the ship you spotted, Paragon, but great work! I spotted a ship which had two nacelles on top of a Kelvin-style saucer, and only one secondary hull underneath. We're going to have to come up with shorthand names for those, too...
I found this image of a ship much like the Quad, but with only one secondary hull. At first I thought it was another Quad, but the secondary hull hangs down too far, and at that angle we should be able to see a second one if it had it. I decided to do this one on my thread as well. I'll post it there soon.
I found this image of a ship much like the Quad, but with only one secondary hull. At first I thought it was another Quad, but the secondary hull hangs down too far, and at that angle we should be able to see a second one if it had it. I decided to do this one on my thread as well. I'll post it there soon.
It is a quad-- look at the back end of the portside nacelle-- there's the shuttlebay doors of the starboard engineering hull poking out behind it.
I spotted a ship which had two nacelles on top of a Kelvin-style saucer, and only one secondary hull underneath.
And that was in the "warp away" scene, so I don't think we should abandon this latest design just yet. W.I.P., please continue posting your 3D work!! It's much appreciated. :thumb:
What do you think we should call it? "Trike" is out, so maybe "Triad" wouldn't be too confusing? The three "things" (nacelles and secondary hull) make up a triangle-like shape which would be well defined by "Triad." Unless people think that's too similar to "Trike?" Or maybe we should rename the Trike the "Trident" and make THIS one the "Trike." (I think my head hurts!).
I like Triad...of course I like Trident too. I was working on a Kelvin Subtype with two nacelles underneath and the secondary hull on top, but I will definitely do this design too with the Kelvin Saucer section (shouldn't be too hard).
As for K.I.S. and your 3d modeling...keep it coming! You're doing great work. Alas, I am confined to the 2d realm, as I don't have the time to learn any of the mesh programs out there...that is unless people want to give me incredible sums of money, so I can quit my job and do this full time.
This is just my opinion though, but I thought I'd share my newest hypothesis. Ironscythe and Hyperspace caught me onto the info that the one in the image above is a quad instead of a triad, so I have an image to share. It's my guess that the three in white are all different views of the same quad-class. The only trike I see is the one in red. The ones circled in green look like they could be Oberth-sized ships, and the three circled in blue look to be kelvinesque but without the secondary hull on the top...
I think those things in the green circles are shuttles. Again, I think the ones circled in blue are "deuces" (couldn't think of an applicable Dune 2000 unit ). Take the trike, replace the middle nacelle with a secondary hull, and remove the rollbar, and thats what I think the "Duece" is, based mostly on what I saw yesterday at the theater. The secondary hull seems to be far forward of the nacelles.
Edit: I take it back, the two greens look like ships too, but of different designs. The one on the left actually looks like it might be the same class as Kelvin, while the one on the right looks like a saucer with two nacelles on top, and instead of being docked to the station nose-in, appears to be attached by its starboard side.
I just imagined the Kelvin to be much larger than the two in green. Something similar in size to the quads, triads, and deuces... The two in green look so much smaller than the other ships, but they clearly have nacelle-type "thingies" around a small saucer...
I gotta admit, this thread is kinda fun, what with all the speculation and the basic 3D designs we're spitting out... lol
Yeah, there were only seven ships sent to Vulcan (besides the Enterprise), and if you only count the ships that AREN'T circled in green, you get our primary seven ships that we're trying to figure out. My guess is that the green-circled ships are some kind of tiny support craft that aren't classified as "starship," so they weren't sent to Vulcan (and don't "count," as it were).
Just to recap (for anyone just joining in), our shorthand is as follows:
Deuce - Full saucer with two nacelles below and one secondary hull between them Trike - Full saucer with three nacelles below (possible "roll-bar" on top) Quad - Half-saucer with two nacelles on top connected by a roll-bar and two secondary hulls below Triad (Conjectural, unconfirmed) - Full saucer with two nacelles on top with one secondary hull below
Any ship which is just a saucer and a nacelle below would be a "Saladin" type ship, while ships configured like the Kelvin would of course be referred to as "Kelvin" type, for lack of a better term.
And Mills, I think this thread is fun, too!! I mean, how long has it been that us starship junkies got to do this kind of thing with NEW starship designs? Freakin' forever, that's how long!!
Having new ships to model, both in 3D and in styrene (still crossing fingers), is terrific! Just to ditto a previous comment, I can't wait for better views of these to come out so all our 3D pros can have at them...
That's true, I'm looking forward to better pictures - but it would take away some of the fun of all this guessing!! I mean, we've been starved for new Starfleet ships since "Enterprise" went off the air, and that design wasn't particularly inspired (just a rehash of the Akira-class, as we all know...).
Well, now I have some more ideas as to ship designs. I guess I was off a little on some of them, but oh well. And as for the Deuce, do we know it has a secondary hull underneath? I just want to make sure as to not make the same mistake I did last time when I mistook a Quad for another Trike-type (With a slightly different configuration).
The Deuce is still somewhat ambiguous at this point; I personally haven't seen or noticed it anywhere in the movie or the limited pictures we have, but apparently some people have seen it, and they back the design. So to answer your question, no, I'm not sure about anything related to the Deuce.
I examined the three Quads which can be made out in the released image of Starfleet Headquarters (and put them together in a collage which I've attached below). Apparently, we've been going about the roll-bar all wrong; it looks like there's a half-circle arch which not only acts as nacelle struts (because the nacelles are attached to it), but it also acts as the "roll-bar," which means that this design doesn't really have a roll-bar. I remember the half-circle now from when I saw the movie; I was so distracted to that one aspect of the design that my center of attention failed to recognize the fact that I was looking at a Quad in the first place. My first thought, as I was gazing at that distracting half-ring, was that it looked a lot like a Vulcan ship...
I like the half-ring/arch thing, though; it adds a unique and original feature to the variant, which helps to make it more than just your ordinary kitbash.
This is just my opinion though, but I thought I'd share my newest hypothesis. Ironscythe and Hyperspace caught me onto the info that the one in the image above is a quad instead of a triad, so I have an image to share. It's my guess that the three in white are all different views of the same quad-class. The only trike I see is the one in red. The ones circled in green look like they could be Oberth-sized ships, and the three circled in blue look to be kelvinesque but without the secondary hull on the top...
What do you think?
I think those blue circled ships are more Reliant like. I thought I saw, during the scene when the fleet is going to warp, just above Chekov's head, on the viewer, what appeared to be a two nacelled ship. Basically, a "Trike" without the middle nacelle.
All the ships do seem to be derived kit-bashes of the Kelvin.
I was also thinking of what would they all typed as. If the Kelvin is a survey ship, it's single nacelle makes sense to me. It wouldn't need to be fast just to go a check out a planet, moon, star or something. The four nacelled ship I think of as an explorer. It's got to warp nacelles (making it perhaps faster or just better at running at high warp for longer periods) and two engineering nacelle/hulls with, I'm guessing here, two sensor dishes. Makes sense to me that this was the front line explorer considering this and the over all volume. The three nacelled ship I'm thinking as a fast frigate/fast response ship. Not so much the modern meaning of frigate, but the age of sail. No sensor dish would seem to mean a less science minded mission, not that it still couldn't do them. Also, the three nacelles would maybe make it very fast, something wanted for responding for rescue missions or defense. The "Reliant" type I thought I saw, could be consider a frigate as well or perhaps just a cruiser. Similar mission profiles as the trike, but not as fast. The Enterprise is the new explorer type, it's nacelles making it the fastest of the all, it's sensor dish being more powerful then the quad's.
But the deflector dish, as I've seen it used in this 'verse, is the cowcatcher, it's clearing a path for the ship while it's at warp, which is why it's burning blue at warp speed, and is included in all these ship designs (I know the Reliant didn't have one, but since this is a restart in many ways, we gotta let go of those and go by what we've seen).
Well, I really, REALLY like L-Gaim's classification definition ideas!! They REALLY make sense and the ignite that extra little spark of happiness within this ship junkie's heart.
In TOS, the dish was supposed to be a communications/sensor dish like the kind under the nose of an airplane (and Matt Jefferies' original design even had a "sensor cap" cover like an airplane, but it was removed in the final version to add more detail to the ship). Although the Movie's Enterprise has a "deflector" purpose for the dish, it would make sense that the older versions (Quad, Trike, Kelvin, etc) might not have the same purpose. Either way I'm sticking with what L-Gaim said because I like it a LOT.
EDIT: Some of the people over at Memory Alpha (The Star Trek Wiki) figured out the sixth ship's name - the USS Walcott. Which means that now we have:
USS Farragut
USS Hood
USS Truman
USS Centaurus
USS Walcott
USS Mayflower
Unfortunately, not even the Memory Alpha people knew the name of the seventh ship, which shall remain a mystery...
Posts
Let us know if you kind any other cam versions - I'll look for a few myself.
Unfortunately, the video card on my main computer is experiencing problems, so I might not be able to open Photoshop on it. I'll see what I can do though. Expect some sort of image soon.
Now...how about those DAC ships? The Romulan ones look pretty boring (miniNaradas), but the starfleet ships are nice.
My wife and I just got back from seeing it, and it gives a pretty good look at it through the viewscreen (better than the clipped clips we can see here). It's definitely got two nacelles on the top, and cargo-type containers on the bottom. It's a lot like the ship we see that has the two nacelles on top and the two engineering/shuttle-craft hulls on the bottom. To reinforce a comment above, it does look wider than it is long...
Edit: One more thing. All these ships and their new designs beg the question: What would the Daedalus look like Kelvinized? Just a thought!
Somewhat off-topic, but since this is sort of the unofficial discussion thread for the background ships in the movie, we can tally up the starships with confirmed names that we know of. There were seven (excluding the Enterprise) at Spacedock, and seven which made up the rescue armada to Vulcan. We know four of the names of these starships:
USS Hood
USS Farragut
USS Centaurus
USS Mayflower
...which leaves only three ships unaccounted for (as far as names go).
I also got back from seeing the movie (in IMAX again...for the third time!!), and I managed to snap a crappy picture of the Maru with my phone. I also noticed the dual impulse engines on the "roll-bar" next to the warp nacelles - a pretty cool design characteristic, actually. It also seems to back Paragon's initial hypothesis that the primary hull is up top (instead of on the bottom like I thought), since that little point of light between the nacelles almost looks like a bridge dome, as well. Maybe the Maru doesn't have a roll-bar at all; maybe it's just a saucer with nacelles on either side of it, with cargo pods slung below it. One thing's for sure, Paragon - it's NOT a modified Quad. You were right!
As a funny note, that plume of flame from the exploding Klingon ship looks like a heart.
And....can you make (draw) me the starship parts...please?
Was the USS Truman one of the ships? Well then damn, we've only got TWO unnamed ships now! Good ear, Capt. Gardner! :thumb:
As for starship "parts," I'll be making some of my own in a little bit to share - in the meantime, UniversalTim has been making some beautiful parts up in MS Paint. Check it out here: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/2d-wips/52700-itrek-new-enterprise-3.html#post417449
I did catch a better look at the third design in the fleet too, which appears to be a Kelvin saucer with a secondary hull below it in the middle, and two nacelles on either side. A lot like the Trike, but no rollbar.
You knw what would be cool if we did an animation with the nw ships
I didn't catch the ship you spotted, Paragon, but great work! I spotted a ship which had two nacelles on top of a Kelvin-style saucer, and only one secondary hull underneath. We're going to have to come up with shorthand names for those, too...
It is a quad-- look at the back end of the portside nacelle-- there's the shuttlebay doors of the starboard engineering hull poking out behind it.
And that was in the "warp away" scene, so I don't think we should abandon this latest design just yet. W.I.P., please continue posting your 3D work!! It's much appreciated. :thumb:
What do you think we should call it? "Trike" is out, so maybe "Triad" wouldn't be too confusing? The three "things" (nacelles and secondary hull) make up a triangle-like shape which would be well defined by "Triad." Unless people think that's too similar to "Trike?" Or maybe we should rename the Trike the "Trident" and make THIS one the "Trike." (I think my head hurts!).
As for K.I.S. and your 3d modeling...keep it coming! You're doing great work. Alas, I am confined to the 2d realm, as I don't have the time to learn any of the mesh programs out there...that is unless people want to give me incredible sums of money, so I can quit my job and do this full time.
Well, a guy can dream, can't he?
What do you think?
Edit: I take it back, the two greens look like ships too, but of different designs. The one on the left actually looks like it might be the same class as Kelvin, while the one on the right looks like a saucer with two nacelles on top, and instead of being docked to the station nose-in, appears to be attached by its starboard side.
I gotta admit, this thread is kinda fun, what with all the speculation and the basic 3D designs we're spitting out... lol
CMills
Just to recap (for anyone just joining in), our shorthand is as follows:
Deuce - Full saucer with two nacelles below and one secondary hull between them
Trike - Full saucer with three nacelles below (possible "roll-bar" on top)
Quad - Half-saucer with two nacelles on top connected by a roll-bar and two secondary hulls below
Triad (Conjectural, unconfirmed) - Full saucer with two nacelles on top with one secondary hull below
Any ship which is just a saucer and a nacelle below would be a "Saladin" type ship, while ships configured like the Kelvin would of course be referred to as "Kelvin" type, for lack of a better term.
And Mills, I think this thread is fun, too!! I mean, how long has it been that us starship junkies got to do this kind of thing with NEW starship designs? Freakin' forever, that's how long!!
I examined the three Quads which can be made out in the released image of Starfleet Headquarters (and put them together in a collage which I've attached below). Apparently, we've been going about the roll-bar all wrong; it looks like there's a half-circle arch which not only acts as nacelle struts (because the nacelles are attached to it), but it also acts as the "roll-bar," which means that this design doesn't really have a roll-bar. I remember the half-circle now from when I saw the movie; I was so distracted to that one aspect of the design that my center of attention failed to recognize the fact that I was looking at a Quad in the first place. My first thought, as I was gazing at that distracting half-ring, was that it looked a lot like a Vulcan ship...
I like the half-ring/arch thing, though; it adds a unique and original feature to the variant, which helps to make it more than just your ordinary kitbash.
I think those blue circled ships are more Reliant like. I thought I saw, during the scene when the fleet is going to warp, just above Chekov's head, on the viewer, what appeared to be a two nacelled ship. Basically, a "Trike" without the middle nacelle.
All the ships do seem to be derived kit-bashes of the Kelvin.
I was also thinking of what would they all typed as. If the Kelvin is a survey ship, it's single nacelle makes sense to me. It wouldn't need to be fast just to go a check out a planet, moon, star or something. The four nacelled ship I think of as an explorer. It's got to warp nacelles (making it perhaps faster or just better at running at high warp for longer periods) and two engineering nacelle/hulls with, I'm guessing here, two sensor dishes. Makes sense to me that this was the front line explorer considering this and the over all volume. The three nacelled ship I'm thinking as a fast frigate/fast response ship. Not so much the modern meaning of frigate, but the age of sail. No sensor dish would seem to mean a less science minded mission, not that it still couldn't do them. Also, the three nacelles would maybe make it very fast, something wanted for responding for rescue missions or defense. The "Reliant" type I thought I saw, could be consider a frigate as well or perhaps just a cruiser. Similar mission profiles as the trike, but not as fast. The Enterprise is the new explorer type, it's nacelles making it the fastest of the all, it's sensor dish being more powerful then the quad's.
Just thoughts for the "stew".
Chris
In TOS, the dish was supposed to be a communications/sensor dish like the kind under the nose of an airplane (and Matt Jefferies' original design even had a "sensor cap" cover like an airplane, but it was removed in the final version to add more detail to the ship). Although the Movie's Enterprise has a "deflector" purpose for the dish, it would make sense that the older versions (Quad, Trike, Kelvin, etc) might not have the same purpose. Either way I'm sticking with what L-Gaim said because I like it a LOT.
EDIT: Some of the people over at Memory Alpha (The Star Trek Wiki) figured out the sixth ship's name - the USS Walcott. Which means that now we have:
USS Farragut
USS Hood
USS Truman
USS Centaurus
USS Walcott
USS Mayflower
Unfortunately, not even the Memory Alpha people knew the name of the seventh ship, which shall remain a mystery...