Quad: Carrier/Battlecruiser. Twin shuttlebays allow for twice the shuttle complement, possibly carrying as-yet-unseen fightercraft. Could also house additional weaponry and generators for better shields. The half-saucer primary hull suggests (considering the double shuttlebays) smaller, more efficient accommodations for crew, and less room for science and exploration-related facilities. But this is all assuming the two secondary hulls are like those on the Kelvin and Enterprise (the leaky, steamy bowels of the ship)
Trike: Fast Cruiser. Combination of dual standard warp nacelles with the single integrated "long" nacelle seen in the Kelvin type, allowing for warp speed comparable to the Constitution Class (assuming the Enterprise is the fastest in the fleet, as previously assumed in TOS knowledge base).
Quote: Originally posted by L-Gaim. "With the Reliant, they are the circled portions. Go look at your model kits and other pictures, they're the same design. Also, if they aren't the deflector system, what are they then, for those who'll say that they aren't the deflector system."
I was under the impression from some schematics I saw awhile back that the two objects on the top of the Reliant hull were sensor platforms, although your explanation fits better.... why would a Constitution Class ship have a huge circular deflector disk while leaving that feature out of a Miranda Class ship? Even though they have different roles they both travel at warp and they both have to avoid objects in space!
why would a Constitution Class ship have a huge circular deflector disk while leaving that feature out of a Miranda Class ship?
Why? Because ship designers just design ships that look cool. Sometimes there is more thought put into it, but usually not.
And regarding those "pieces" on the Relliant and Enterprise that another poster pointed out as the "real deflectors" - I'm sure the designers of those ships did not have a specific purpose in mind for those pieces. They just put "nurnies" on models where it looks good, and where they appear to serve a purpose.
We'd all like to think there there is a giant technical manual that ship designers use for the shows/movies when building ships, and that they build the ships after detailed technical drawings, where every piece has a function. But that just isn't the case.
Why not mount a nice big "deflector dish" on the front of the center nacelle on the trike... where's it written that each nacelle needs to have a "bussard collector" on the front of it? Who knows, maybe someone thought of these questions we ask and thought, "hey let's design a miranda style ship, but fix the deflector issue by adding a third nacelle with a deflector on it..."
OR it's possible that since the Grissom doesn't have a deflector dish either, that there are some classes of ships that don't require the dishes, because they aren't high-warp ships and/or the deflector's needs are compensated in some other way.
I still don't even think that the dishes are deflectors in the first place. Matt Jefferies designed the TOS Enterprise's dish to be a sensor/radar type dish. If the dish was a critical part of a starship's warp travel, how was the ship be able to go "full reverse" at warp speed? And that's happened in different series besides just TOS, as well.
If the Constitution-variant starship has a big ol' dish in the front, it probably just means that the Constitution is better suited for scientific-type missions. The fact that the Trike/Miranda don't have big sensor dishes simply suggests that they aren't very scientific-minded craft, whereas the Constitution and the Quad (which has TWO sensor dishes, and I think was a precurser to the Constitution) are obviously better suited to scientific mission profiles, as L-Gaim suggested.
I'm sure that whatever space debris needs to be cleared away from the ship while at warp (or at impulse) doesn't need to be projected by a dish - it's probably a type of low-level or specially-modulated force field which is projected by the same units which project the defensive shields. No big fancy dish required.
I still don't even think that the dishes are deflectors in the first place. Matt Jefferies designed the TOS Enterprise's dish to be a sensor/radar type dish. If the dish was a critical part of a starship's warp travel, how was the ship be able to go "full reverse" at warp speed? And that's happened in different series besides just TOS, as well.
If the Constitution-variant starship has a big ol' dish in the front, it probably just means that the Constitution is better suited for scientific-type missions. The fact that the Trike/Miranda don't have big sensor dishes simply suggests that they aren't very scientific-minded craft, whereas the Constitution and the Quad (which has TWO sensor dishes, and I think was a precurser to the Constitution) are obviously better suited to scientific mission profiles, as L-Gaim suggested.
I'm sure that whatever space debris needs to be cleared away from the ship while at warp (or at impulse) doesn't need to be projected by a dish - it's probably a type of low-level or specially-modulated force field which is projected by the same units which project the defensive shields. No big fancy dish required.
You are kind of mixing up exactly what a ship needs a dish for in the first place... a ship CAN travel at warp without one, especially a smaller ship, like a Miranda-Class, or what have you... the reason the larger ships seem to always have a dish, is because the function of the deflector is much the same as the cowcatcher, on a train...
It is designed to emit a pulse way ahead of the ship's line of flight, and knock away or displace any matter, that might potentially strike the ship, such as rock particles, hazardous gasses or elements, or other debris This is why the deflector dishes are always forward of the ship, and why they are always a dish... so they can presumably be aimed and directed, as the ship flies through space.
The fanon presumption, with the ships with no dish, like the Miranda-Class, and so on, is that they use a deflector "grid", which is woven, for lack of a better term, onto the ship's hull, and much like shields, create a protective area around the ship. Perhaps this type of deflector shield is weaker than that of a dish, which could explain part of the reason as to why the smaller ships are often slower.
Having two dishes is a bit redundant, and I think is more for visual balance, than for function.
This is just a nitpick, but I'm gonna mention it anyway...
The warp drive as we know it in Trek is designed to make a ship go faster than light without actually going faster than light. It bends space around the ship, it doesn't move the ship through space. If a pulse were to be emitted far enough ahead of the ship, it would leave the subspace field and therefore violate relativity's time and length theorems.
I'm more up for having every ship with a "woven in" deflector grid that protects it from debris as well as weaponry, and therefore reserving the "dish" as having other purposes. I'm with a previous comment that it was accidentally referred to once as a "deflector dish" and it stuck as a misnomer than it actually being one...
Well, since the J-prise is much bigger than the old Enterprise (and presumably the other ships in the fleet are just as large), maybe the cowcatcher is more of a necessity than before. Again, conjecture, I like ships that don't have deflectors just as much as I like ships that do have them.
The Jellyfish didn't have a deflector dish, it was small enough not to need one. Narada was too big to need one or have one work effectively (what's the point, those tentacle thingies are all the protection you need, right?)
Guys, I really like the design of the "quad", but I thought it'd be fun to see how it'd look if it was modified to look more like the Miranda class. So I used one of the screencaps you posted earlier to make this quick "teaser image" for the next movie.
Guys, I really like the design of the "quad", but I thought it'd be fun to see how it'd look if it was modified to look more like the Miranda class. So I used one of the screencaps you posted earlier to make this quick "teaser image" for the next movie.
WOW, now I want to see a trailer . Don't want to sound picky, but I think you should change the 12 to roman numbers.
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
I rewatched the film tonight... There is definitely at least one two-nacelled ship in the fleet that looks very similar to the "Trike" - With nacelles below the saucer. It warps away just before the trike does. It seemed to lack a secondary hull.
I seriously laughed out loud when I read that. Maybe it'll stick...who knows! I don't think it could be classified as a Miranda-variant unless it had a roll-bar of some kind. "Bike" it is, then! :thumb:
If I remember correctly, in Legacy, there is a TOS Constitution kitbash, the same layout as the Miranda (which is also called the Miranda) without a rollbar.
If not that, then it can always be the Federation tug/cargo ship we all know.
I think some of you guys are forgetting the DS9 series opener, Sisko's ship was a Miranda class without the roll bar...
As for the Trike, I'm pretty sure the 'huge' saucer we see in the debri field around Vulcan is for that ship, since there doesn't appear to be any other ships at the station capable of having a saucer like that. I do recall you could just about make out the ships name, but its only on the screen a second.
The Klingon ships looked very much like the K'T'inga's onscreen, but the Burger King toy hints that there might be some differences on the wings/nacelle pylons.
That "teaser poster" looks way tight!! Nice job! Photoshop or other, may I ask?
CMills
Yeah, Photoshop. I would've used the roman numerals, but that might've taken a bit more work. Flipping the "S" horizontally was a quick way to make a "2".
I think some of you guys are forgetting the DS9 series opener, Sisko's ship was a Miranda class without the roll bar...
Yes, but was it ever specified as a Miranda-variant? If not, then it's just like that other ship we saw in the movie - similar, but possibly of a different type.
As for the Trike, I'm pretty sure the 'huge' saucer we see in the debri field around Vulcan is for that ship, since there doesn't appear to be any other ships at the station capable of having a saucer like that. I do recall you could just about make out the ships name, but its only on the screen a second.
I'm fairly sure that the saucer in the debris field is the Mayflower.
In those cases, I think it's safe for all of use to assume that the Trike is *officially* named the Mayflower! Although we should probably make sure, first - after all, there's that third type of starship around the edges of that Starfleet Command picture which seem to have a whole saucer, except we can't identify the nacelle/secondary hull configuration.
Yes, but was it ever specified as a Miranda-variant? If not, then it's just like that other ship we saw in the movie - similar, but possibly of a different type.
It wasn't specified on screen as a Miranda class specifically, but then I don't recall the name Miranda class 'ever' actually been said on screen. It is blatantly obvious it is a Miranda class though. It would be like saying the USS Phonix is not a Nebula class because latter ships had different sensor pods.
Yes, but was it ever specified as a Miranda-variant? If not, then it's just like that other ship we saw in the movie - similar, but possibly of a different type.
In those cases, I think it's safe for all of use to assume that the Trike is *officially* named the Mayflower! Although we should probably make sure, first - after all, there's that third type of starship around the edges of that Starfleet Command picture which seem to have a whole saucer, except we can't identify the nacelle/secondary hull configuration.
Cool. :thumb:
I think that's the two nacelle ship I thought I saw. It seemed like the Trike, but no center nacelle. Maybe that's it?
It wasn't specified on screen as a Miranda class specifically, but then I don't recall the name Miranda class 'ever' actually been said on screen. It is blatantly obvious it is a Miranda class though. It would be like saying the USS Phonix is not a Nebula class because latter ships had different sensor pods.
The funny thing, is that with the US Navy, they some times did name variants of an existing class as a different class officially, but not always. Seems to me they liked to toss coins on that matter, so maybe Starfleet likes to break out a gold pressed latinum coin to decide?
Seems to me they liked to toss coins on that matter, so maybe Starfleet likes to break out a gold pressed latinum coin to decide?
Haha, I wouldn't doubt it...hell, by the logic we're going by, maybe the Trike is officially classified as a "modified" Miranda. I think we should specify how many "variations" can be made within a particular class before it stops being a variant and starts being a whole different class (going by the TNG Era definition of "class").
I know this might not might mean anything. But I noticed as well as other people that many of the ships were of similar size or approaching the size of the enterprise yeah have had the tri and quad naceles. I noticed they all had the Bridges that arched and connected the naceles to each other and the body.
Now as we know the Enterprise doesn't having any of these being in the classical configuration.
I'm guess that after the destruction of the kelvin and Starfleets eventual increase and ship building program as a response to the Narada threat, Starfleet built these larger vessels using the tech that was avaliable at the time as each was built, However due to the differences in technology from the time of the Kelvin to the Enterprise 20 some odd years later, many of the older designs had bracing and reinforcment structures to allow them to take carry there large mass and allow increased structural strength to these new Starships.
From what I can tell it seems as the technology got better as each vessel was built.
Course I could be wrong of course. it is after all a theory. but its possible since the Enterprise is classified in the cruiser class so its possible that there are larger ships in the service and the enterprise is the first actual large ship that doesn't require teh bracing and reinforcing the older designs had.
In TOS, the dish was supposed to be a communications/sensor dish like the kind under the nose of an airplane (and Matt Jefferies' original design even had a "sensor cap" cover like an airplane, but it was removed in the final version to add more detail to the ship). Although the Movie's Enterprise has a "deflector" purpose for the dish, it would make sense that the older versions (Quad, Trike, Kelvin, etc) might not have the same purpose.
I checked "The Making of Star Trek" (1968), and the thing is, they allude to the dish as "the starship's main sensor/deflector (a parabolic sensor/antenna and asteroid deflector)". I agree it is ambiguous enough to possibly imply that the deflectors per se are in other structures, but...
Hey, I finally threw together some paper models of the Quad and Trike. I did call them Hood and Farragut, just because they needed some sort of name and registry to look good, but I don't expect them to necessarily stick.
I also threw together my own design, kind of a mix between the Kelvin and Stargazer. I'm calling her Hartford, and she's of the Geneva Class.
Obviously the Quad and Trike models aren't as accurate as they could be, but for the first models available, they're pretty good. I'll make them available for download on my website soon.
Posts
Quad: Carrier/Battlecruiser. Twin shuttlebays allow for twice the shuttle complement, possibly carrying as-yet-unseen fightercraft. Could also house additional weaponry and generators for better shields. The half-saucer primary hull suggests (considering the double shuttlebays) smaller, more efficient accommodations for crew, and less room for science and exploration-related facilities. But this is all assuming the two secondary hulls are like those on the Kelvin and Enterprise (the leaky, steamy bowels of the ship)
Trike: Fast Cruiser. Combination of dual standard warp nacelles with the single integrated "long" nacelle seen in the Kelvin type, allowing for warp speed comparable to the Constitution Class (assuming the Enterprise is the fastest in the fleet, as previously assumed in TOS knowledge base).
I was under the impression from some schematics I saw awhile back that the two objects on the top of the Reliant hull were sensor platforms, although your explanation fits better.... why would a Constitution Class ship have a huge circular deflector disk while leaving that feature out of a Miranda Class ship? Even though they have different roles they both travel at warp and they both have to avoid objects in space!
And regarding those "pieces" on the Relliant and Enterprise that another poster pointed out as the "real deflectors" - I'm sure the designers of those ships did not have a specific purpose in mind for those pieces. They just put "nurnies" on models where it looks good, and where they appear to serve a purpose.
We'd all like to think there there is a giant technical manual that ship designers use for the shows/movies when building ships, and that they build the ships after detailed technical drawings, where every piece has a function. But that just isn't the case.
Of course speculating can still be fun...
Chris
If the Constitution-variant starship has a big ol' dish in the front, it probably just means that the Constitution is better suited for scientific-type missions. The fact that the Trike/Miranda don't have big sensor dishes simply suggests that they aren't very scientific-minded craft, whereas the Constitution and the Quad (which has TWO sensor dishes, and I think was a precurser to the Constitution) are obviously better suited to scientific mission profiles, as L-Gaim suggested.
I'm sure that whatever space debris needs to be cleared away from the ship while at warp (or at impulse) doesn't need to be projected by a dish - it's probably a type of low-level or specially-modulated force field which is projected by the same units which project the defensive shields. No big fancy dish required.
You are kind of mixing up exactly what a ship needs a dish for in the first place... a ship CAN travel at warp without one, especially a smaller ship, like a Miranda-Class, or what have you... the reason the larger ships seem to always have a dish, is because the function of the deflector is much the same as the cowcatcher, on a train...
It is designed to emit a pulse way ahead of the ship's line of flight, and knock away or displace any matter, that might potentially strike the ship, such as rock particles, hazardous gasses or elements, or other debris This is why the deflector dishes are always forward of the ship, and why they are always a dish... so they can presumably be aimed and directed, as the ship flies through space.
The fanon presumption, with the ships with no dish, like the Miranda-Class, and so on, is that they use a deflector "grid", which is woven, for lack of a better term, onto the ship's hull, and much like shields, create a protective area around the ship. Perhaps this type of deflector shield is weaker than that of a dish, which could explain part of the reason as to why the smaller ships are often slower.
Having two dishes is a bit redundant, and I think is more for visual balance, than for function.
The warp drive as we know it in Trek is designed to make a ship go faster than light without actually going faster than light. It bends space around the ship, it doesn't move the ship through space. If a pulse were to be emitted far enough ahead of the ship, it would leave the subspace field and therefore violate relativity's time and length theorems.
I'm more up for having every ship with a "woven in" deflector grid that protects it from debris as well as weaponry, and therefore reserving the "dish" as having other purposes. I'm with a previous comment that it was accidentally referred to once as a "deflector dish" and it stuck as a misnomer than it actually being one...
Just my $0.02
CMills
The Jellyfish didn't have a deflector dish, it was small enough not to need one. Narada was too big to need one or have one work effectively (what's the point, those tentacle thingies are all the protection you need, right?)
Chris
WOW, now I want to see a trailer
CMills
Perhaps we can call it the "Bike"?
If not that, then it can always be the Federation tug/cargo ship we all know.
As for the Trike, I'm pretty sure the 'huge' saucer we see in the debri field around Vulcan is for that ship, since there doesn't appear to be any other ships at the station capable of having a saucer like that. I do recall you could just about make out the ships name, but its only on the screen a second.
Yeah, Photoshop.
In those cases, I think it's safe for all of use to assume that the Trike is *officially* named the Mayflower!
It wasn't specified on screen as a Miranda class specifically, but then I don't recall the name Miranda class 'ever' actually been said on screen. It is blatantly obvious it is a Miranda class though. It would be like saying the USS Phonix is not a Nebula class because latter ships had different sensor pods.
Cool.
I think that's the two nacelle ship I thought I saw. It seemed like the Trike, but no center nacelle. Maybe that's it?
The funny thing, is that with the US Navy, they some times did name variants of an existing class as a different class officially, but not always. Seems to me they liked to toss coins on that matter, so maybe Starfleet likes to break out a gold pressed latinum coin to decide?
Haha, I wouldn't doubt it...hell, by the logic we're going by, maybe the Trike is officially classified as a "modified" Miranda. I think we should specify how many "variations" can be made within a particular class before it stops being a variant and starts being a whole different class (going by the TNG Era definition of "class").
Now as we know the Enterprise doesn't having any of these being in the classical configuration.
I'm guess that after the destruction of the kelvin and Starfleets eventual increase and ship building program as a response to the Narada threat, Starfleet built these larger vessels using the tech that was avaliable at the time as each was built, However due to the differences in technology from the time of the Kelvin to the Enterprise 20 some odd years later, many of the older designs had bracing and reinforcment structures to allow them to take carry there large mass and allow increased structural strength to these new Starships.
From what I can tell it seems as the technology got better as each vessel was built.
Course I could be wrong of course. it is after all a theory. but its possible since the Enterprise is classified in the cruiser class so its possible that there are larger ships in the service and the enterprise is the first actual large ship that doesn't require teh bracing and reinforcing the older designs had.
I checked "The Making of Star Trek" (1968), and the thing is, they allude to the dish as "the starship's main sensor/deflector (a parabolic sensor/antenna and asteroid deflector)". I agree it is ambiguous enough to possibly imply that the deflectors per se are in other structures, but...
I also threw together my own design, kind of a mix between the Kelvin and Stargazer. I'm calling her Hartford, and she's of the Geneva Class.
Obviously the Quad and Trike models aren't as accurate as they could be, but for the first models available, they're pretty good. I'll make them available for download on my website soon.