Figured out some of my lum issues I had set the separate lum shader vs using the one built into the vray material. While the shader works it does not properly self light things outside of reflection kick. I have a feeling it is some leftover shader from before they revamped the standard vray mat. Some real quick renders with new bussard glows and internal warp glow stuff. I noticed this issue when seeing how dark the bussards got further I was from the ship and added some "invisible" light sources and that they did not proper light things just created a glowing reflection in the glossy hull.
real fun, replacing all the old crap all over the model. Never had luck with the global replace so yay. I might cop out and not do all the tiny "leds" all over the hull as I just need those to clip and not really produce any real light.
RAW
also do you guys prefer the AI smoothing or just raw grainy render? I sorta dislike the AI cause it looks like muddy jpg but vray is always got this grain in it and it isnt like film grain but ugly grain lol.
Most of all the trek post 2010 seems to have done this. I mean there is homage to past design flow but in such a jarring way it makes little to no sense at all. That Titan-A is a good example. Just too many shapes lifted right off TOS/TNG with no or little influence of time between them. While the originating design is grand, it fit the timeline in a TMP era not post TNG. (AdmrialBuck's original scratch build)
In some ways I see too much effort to place homage without looking at design flow or following a thematic design over time. Good example are TOS, TMP, TNG era markings. You just will not see TOS decals on a TNG era ship. TMP was a bit unique due to set reuse etc but it still happened over a period of a decade or more.
As much as I hated the 09 enterprise I still found things to filch pinch and borrow in the design. The new cbs stuff. . . . .
I keep thinking maybe these designs will grow on us over time like the Defiant or other "then" new stuff from the 90s did. . . but I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. I find myself looking more at interior set design over anything else in these shows now especially SNW.
The thing with Trek 2009 is that you could at least see the TOS influences, as well as the Enterprise influences. Looking at just the Kelvin, if you think about that being a ship that's a logical progression of the fleet after Enterprise, it's right on the money. No, it doesn't look pre TOS, or at least not TOS as it appeared in the 1960s. But they at least had the right shapes. Then, going to Star Trek Beyond, the Franklin looked like it was a logical addition to the fleet of Enterprise. (ignoring the stupid bridge window) it literally looks like it fits into the lineage of ships leading up to the NX-01
Discovery seemed to take established canon from either TOS or Enterprise and throw it out the window. Bryan Fuller's weird thing with non cylindrical nacelles really pulls you right out of the era. They're clearly more inspired by TMP and TNG, not TOS or Enterprise. I was actually surprised that they got the Enterprise as close to TOS as they did.
It doesn't exactly fix the Walker class in terms of looking like TOS, but it does look like it fits better with Enterprise. The Shenzhou was supposed to be old when Michael Burnham beamed aboard in 2249, they never say how old. But, 20 to 30 years prior and it looks like a logical offshoot of the NX-01, before Starfleet simplified their designs for the TOS era.
Strange what works better for the bussards and warp coils kinda is meh for the rooms. Granted shadows and interior lighting looks nicer but the overall cast light sucks with the inbuilt lum. SO I dunno. Finding the internal one ramps only so far before it just gives up getting brighter. However I probably should do the interiors in the absence of the HDRI as that lights the ship up much more than I ever would in a proper scene/render.
Anyhow first image is a half and half left is shader right is lum in standard vray light. Hard to see but anything related to ao or shadows is better in the inbuilt while the lum shader one just casts more light (see reflection on the hull opposite the windows)
Distance render is just to see how it looks, all are sans glass for now.
Thanks, they are not on par with others but just having that bit of junk inside a space really helps to sell things even though I do not do animation. (god forbid 20sec would prolly take 3weeks at 4k)
Lighting I just added another fixture inside and seems to deal with the "brightness" really wish it could be more linear with the multiplier, seems to ramp in a inverse curve then fall off. No glass again mostly cause the glare.
scratch my head sometimes how I cam to the size I did for this ship as the old ancient doodle comes across as a much larger ship. Had also forgotten early on it had no "secondary" hull or traditional deflector.
have to rifle through things to see if I have any paint overs I can draw from as I have long forgotten any other design plans I had made. . . . . lol
original doodles.
uh ok only one I could find is this and not very helpful lol. I guess I seat of the pants-ed most of this model.
hate to say it I kinda wanna rebuild her and give her more saucer exp in the forward rake. but then I see all the work that would need to uh, go away and yuck.
dunno lol kinda ok in perspective but then again not. HAH. **waits for all the eyerolling.
would pretty much mean anything near or conjoining to the green object would need redoing. So uh most of the ship. So, maybe not. EXP given Id have to dig around in archived files to find the old control mesh.
K9inda want to put these back into their original positions. . . but then it was cramped there and Id have to figure out something else for the torps; Then again do I really need 4 aft bays? I do like having more impulse surface with the 2 pair of exhausts but then again maybe I should abandon these objects for something more sov style as in just a heat emitting grill like thing. If remember things right no thrust comes out of the things it is just a heatsink really or a exhaust to dump spent plasma (can there be such a thing? vs recycled to be heated up again??) Anyhow an attempt to refine these dividers and shields between the impulse openings. Was tempted to undercut the whole mess so they are more exposed on the bottom EG more to see going on vs holes in the hull.
Flip flop wet fish i hot pavement. heh. Like em hate em.
either direction I will go likely end up rebuilding the impulse housings themselves as what I have is kinda meh. Of note the torp outer casings will be replaced too too blocky and bulky.
I think the saucer proportions are good as they are. Projecting it further forward imo doesn't look any better, just different. Speaking from past experience, I've found that when working on projects that last for longer than a few weeks, you get used to the shapes and proportions and start second guessing things that were already solid to start with. But like I said, if you choose to rework it with the longer saucer it's still going to look really great if that's your preference.
Also, thank you for posting up those wires - they're very informative in showing your modelling techniques, I really like the style you put into these designs!
Changing the saucer would be a pain. What about smallerizing the nacelles by 5-10% and thinning the pylons front-to-back a bit? That could make the saucer feel larger.
I'd Photoshop what I mean, but I'm on a camping trip at the moment...
The issue that had me looking at the saucer outside of balance was one of size. Scaling those parts are not so simple as the scale tool, it would require rebuilding those parts from scratch or so much work that it would be faster to rebuild from scratch.
Replaced the old torp housings for something less clunky, not much so but look a bit better than what was there.
To me, the saucer in its current size gives the ship a kind of predatory look. With the large nacelles and wide downward "stance" in the pylons, it looks like an animal with powerful back legs pouncing on its prey. I'm not sure what your intended role for this ship is, but that image makes me think of an escort ship, or some kind of attack craft. Enlarging the saucer would take away from that, and I really like that it gives me that kind of vibe. Just my two cents.
Also, as you said, redoing the saucer at this late of a stage would be a huge amount of reworking.
also do you guys prefer the AI smoothing or just raw grainy render? I sorta dislike the AI cause it looks like muddy jpg but vray is always got this grain in it and it isnt like film grain but ugly grain lol.
not so quick pain over though it looks sloppy and quick. . . . ooof.
not all the details will be used and scales will all depend on room for those details such as windows and the actual locations. Then things like the struts might get a more simplistic pattern in the end. Only thing Im likely gonna keep no matter what are the transporter emitters as well, I sorta forgot them in the rest of the upper hull layout. . . .
Avg room for those questionable windows is 12ft deep length front to back can be anything height is about 8ft at the lowest point but the floor is adjustable just turns the windows into more of a skylight. Im thinking these might be offices as they are just a half deck above the bridge. Ones near the officers offices though might not happen as the existing deck might get in the way.
Windows are close to 2.5ftX7ft they will get small as the jambs are extruded into them and no they do not match dimensions of existing windows from that one lounge.
Rough window layout and a idea of sizes. On the fence about the spacing on the paired up units near the top of the hull vs the ones lower down. KIM the gaps will increase with the jamb installs. I might readjust the upper rows to better match the ones below. They are different due to manual vs auto placement. Easier on a curved hull to use a spline vs spending hours aligning by hand lol.
Oh another thing to think about is VOY style cutouts to make windows more vertical. Maybe I will leave those for the underside?
and yes, I did the paintover backwards forgetting most of the ship is symmetry-ed from the left not the right.
4 rebuilds later I am still not happy. Earlier rebuilds were due to it being WAY off too. . . .
I kinda want to move that one outer rim near the bottom of the windows back further cause it is what is cramping up the openings but I dunno if I want to go about rebuilding that frame AGAIN. So maybe it waits till tomorrow and I just delete it al land start over.
ok, just patched in an adjustment redid the edges etc then made other adjustments to the blanks and much better still odd stuff but once rounded it should look more like I was wanting. . . I hope lol.
Well, spot another error after all the modeling. . . . so I might just try to ignore it. That or match the grid to the error instead. Well shit, I might just redo it as I kinda wanted the gold corners to be larger radius on those smaller aft windows too so I dunno. heh.
Another case of model it all and redo it all. . . . heh. Might be a mistake rounding the windows into the hull but I just did not want to deal with rounded windo corners at a angle across all those curved edges of the hull. First image is the DOUGH what was I thinking first go second is the better spaced one. Given these will have inset jambs as well. I might not do the 2 step inset prior to the gold trim.
extruding it out was just as much of a nightmare than if I cur the window curves into all those edges that make up the curve lol. 2 outer windows the lower ends kept drifting off in some distorted mess. Not really seen this in max before. So I had to do a lot of manual by hand stuff and corrections.
ops for got to post this, cold is still kicking my arse lol.
Interior rough out done, boy rematching all that stuff into a semi decent inner hull was nuts. I shoulda if in my right mind taken a clean copy of the hull and extruded the walls in then cut the window jambs into it roughly and been done a long time ago. OOPS. anyhow inside you can see clearances for other objects getting in the way of the backside of the room. Idea is this will be a multi level area atm the floor is at the lowest point, it might go deeper but most of the central area will be a pedestal sort of thing so you have sunken areas for groups. Plan too is to add beams and bulkheads into this area (as well as others)
Posts
real fun, replacing all the old crap all over the model. Never had luck with the global replace so yay. I might cop out and not do all the tiny "leds" all over the hull as I just need those to clip and not really produce any real light.
RAW
also do you guys prefer the AI smoothing or just raw grainy render? I sorta dislike the AI cause it looks like muddy jpg but vray is always got this grain in it and it isnt like film grain but ugly grain lol.
The thing with Trek 2009 is that you could at least see the TOS influences, as well as the Enterprise influences. Looking at just the Kelvin, if you think about that being a ship that's a logical progression of the fleet after Enterprise, it's right on the money. No, it doesn't look pre TOS, or at least not TOS as it appeared in the 1960s. But they at least had the right shapes. Then, going to Star Trek Beyond, the Franklin looked like it was a logical addition to the fleet of Enterprise. (ignoring the stupid bridge window) it literally looks like it fits into the lineage of ships leading up to the NX-01
Discovery seemed to take established canon from either TOS or Enterprise and throw it out the window. Bryan Fuller's weird thing with non cylindrical nacelles really pulls you right out of the era. They're clearly more inspired by TMP and TNG, not TOS or Enterprise. I was actually surprised that they got the Enterprise as close to TOS as they did.
I found this earlier:
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sdy-aldrin.php
It doesn't exactly fix the Walker class in terms of looking like TOS, but it does look like it fits better with Enterprise. The Shenzhou was supposed to be old when Michael Burnham beamed aboard in 2249, they never say how old. But, 20 to 30 years prior and it looks like a logical offshoot of the NX-01, before Starfleet simplified their designs for the TOS era.
Anyhow first image is a half and half left is shader right is lum in standard vray light. Hard to see but anything related to ao or shadows is better in the inbuilt while the lum shader one just casts more light (see reflection on the hull opposite the windows)
Distance render is just to see how it looks, all are sans glass for now.
Lighting I just added another fixture inside and seems to deal with the "brightness" really wish it could be more linear with the multiplier, seems to ramp in a inverse curve then fall off. No glass again mostly cause the glare.
scratch my head sometimes how I cam to the size I did for this ship as the old ancient doodle comes across as a much larger ship. Had also forgotten early on it had no "secondary" hull or traditional deflector.
have to rifle through things to see if I have any paint overs I can draw from as I have long forgotten any other design plans I had made. . . . . lol
original doodles.
hate to say it I kinda wanna rebuild her and give her more saucer exp in the forward rake. but then I see all the work that would need to uh, go away and yuck.
would pretty much mean anything near or conjoining to the green object would need redoing. So uh most of the ship. So, maybe not. EXP given Id have to dig around in archived files to find the old control mesh.
Flip flop wet fish i hot pavement. heh. Like em hate em.
either direction I will go likely end up rebuilding the impulse housings themselves as what I have is kinda meh. Of note the torp outer casings will be replaced too too blocky and bulky.
Also, thank you for posting up those wires - they're very informative in showing your modelling techniques, I really like the style you put into these designs!
I'd Photoshop what I mean, but I'm on a camping trip at the moment...
Replaced the old torp housings for something less clunky, not much so but look a bit better than what was there.
Also, as you said, redoing the saucer at this late of a stage would be a huge amount of reworking.
Grain means details, so grainy!
not all the details will be used and scales will all depend on room for those details such as windows and the actual locations. Then things like the struts might get a more simplistic pattern in the end. Only thing Im likely gonna keep no matter what are the transporter emitters as well, I sorta forgot them in the rest of the upper hull layout. . . .
Windows are close to 2.5ftX7ft they will get small as the jambs are extruded into them and no they do not match dimensions of existing windows from that one lounge.
Oh another thing to think about is VOY style cutouts to make windows more vertical. Maybe I will leave those for the underside?
and yes, I did the paintover backwards forgetting most of the ship is symmetry-ed from the left not the right.
I kinda want to move that one outer rim near the bottom of the windows back further cause it is what is cramping up the openings but I dunno if I want to go about rebuilding that frame AGAIN. So maybe it waits till tomorrow and I just delete it al land start over.
second image has adjusted frame width
extruding it out was just as much of a nightmare than if I cur the window curves into all those edges that make up the curve lol. 2 outer windows the lower ends kept drifting off in some distorted mess. Not really seen this in max before. So I had to do a lot of manual by hand stuff and corrections.
Interior rough out done, boy rematching all that stuff into a semi decent inner hull was nuts. I shoulda if in my right mind taken a clean copy of the hull and extruded the walls in then cut the window jambs into it roughly and been done a long time ago. OOPS. anyhow inside you can see clearances for other objects getting in the way of the backside of the room. Idea is this will be a multi level area atm the floor is at the lowest point, it might go deeper but most of the central area will be a pedestal sort of thing so you have sunken areas for groups. Plan too is to add beams and bulkheads into this area (as well as others)