Am I the only one who's really curious about what the interiors of that place look like? I keep picturing the faucets looking just like it, then tilting my head up to see a room, then a hall, etc
Lol. Well, I have couple of Andys illustration of what the bridge could look like. Unfortunately I cant share them atm But Ill tell you, its awesome. Its spacious and leaves really relaxing feeling. When you look at it you say to yourself -boy, you can really drink a morning coffee in this place (you know -aaaaaaahh nice). Also the F doesent have bridge dome. The bridge itself is now secluded inside the hull (for safety and protection reasons).
What's not fine, and what I was/am reacting to, is the tone you struck about people's critiques of this design being misplaced because they didn't have proper training. That is entirely bogus and an absolutely unacceptable, stuck-up attitude to use to defend a piece of art. "They don't get it," is a load of tripe. It's the job of the artist to make his audience get it and if they don't, then that's on the artist. And as someone who did spend years in art school and then did spend years as a professional artist, working every day with professional artists, I couldn't let a statement like that go unchallenged.
My point still stands Im sorry. You've mixed up departments -just |art|classes and industrial design are quite different. If you would know how much industrial design is advanced and complex, you wouldnt be so hasty in your critique. Dont get me wrong, I dont meant to discredit you or your work, or disrespect you, but I just cant take any of your critique and comments seriously and professionally and relay them to Andy (the guy who has more than 35 years experience as a industrial designer and artist), if you at least dont have same education department and some experience.
Lol could you imagine Leonardo's pigment maker saying to him how to draw a painting, or how this line is not good, or why this brush stroke just ruined his painting.
IMHO the concept andy drew looks like a 10 yr old drew it for a professional it's quite lacking in a lot of design yea it's ment to be simple but simple always isn't good you can have a smooth flowing design but like every one has said it's one hell of an ugly duckling
IMHO the concept andy drew looks like a 10 yr old drew it for a professional it's quite lacking in a lot of design yea it's ment to be simple but simple always isn't good you can have a smooth flowing design but like every one has said it's one hell of an ugly duckling
1. If a 10 year old drew it, it would have countless super weapons and it would be a large ship the size of a planet. So please keep all 'childish' statements to yourself.
2. It's a concept, its not suppose to be super detailed or perfect. Only a the first step in creating a starship.
3. It needs refinement, yes, but it is no where near ugly. Look at the Freedom and Niagara classes. Those were pretty damn bad. Parts of it feel odd, but that's only because I'm use to the not-as-smooth ships we are use to seeing. I still would prefer a more circular deflector to fit the neck, but that's only my opinion and subject to consideration or not.
4. Looking at it again, I would say what might would fix the odd curve is if the front of the neck would have a larger curve into the saucer to echo the bottom better.
Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
CaptRicoSakara indirectly fixed a lot of the issues with his Lego design, which couldn't exactly replicate your shapes and was actually significantly improved as a result. The shallower curve of the ventral bulge significantly improves the overall shape balance and the slightly enlarged saucer provides a better sense of "front half" and "back half," since the saucer and rear portion are roughly 50/50 instead of the uneasy ~60/40 you have now.
I knocked together a very rough example of one way to fix the shape issues, but I actually prefer CaptRicoSakara's LEGO solution to my own.
@__@;
I'm actually impressed by that statement, mostly because I thought my LEGO moc up would never live up to Andy & VMBlast's actual rendering. But as I said, I was using VMBlast's first 3D rendering with the larger saucer as a main reference, then use his later renderings to refine it further, with what lego parts I had available.
Also, replying to the "front half/back half" sense of the model, when I first did the ship in lego with the saucer exactly in size to VM's later rendering specs, I looked at it and thought, "It's too damn small! It doesn't look like a successor to the Galaxy Class. Looks more like an Intrepid Class." Plus, when seeing it from the top, it made the neck look too long. So I went back with the large saucer from the first rendering to balance the design out and to keep it within the realm of "Galaxy-class successor" <- also, when you look at the original Galaxy Class, and Doug Dexler's Enterprise-J (Universe-Class), it made more sense to me that the saucer should be larger, as to me, more advance ships get larger saucers as the technology from 24th to 26th century and beyond improves (Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong).
Lol. Well, I have couple of Andys illustration of what the bridge could look like. Unfortunately I cant share them atm But Ill tell you, its awesome. Its spacious and leaves really relaxing feeling. When you look at it you say to yourself -boy, you can really drink a morning coffee in this place (you know -aaaaaaahh nice). Also the F doesent have bridge dome. The bridge itself is now secluded inside the hull (for safety and protection reasons).
@__@;I MUST SEE THESE BRIDGE ILLUSTRATIONS when you post them, VM.
I would LOVE to build a LEGO moc up of a Hasley-Class bridge to go with the ship I built (of course, it will be galaxy-class colors (yellow, red, etc.), since all my white pieces are being used). But please, PLEASE tell me the bridge sketch at least has the curved couches built into the Opps and Conn Station, just like in Andy's original '86 Galaxy-Class sketches:
That would make me SO happy! =3
Yes, yes it has Also, Its quite wide and viewscreen almost goes entire section of the half circle. Thats all I can say atm. Ill post it as soon as I get chance (approve) . However, I have to add that its still concept and susceptible to (a lot) of changes.
Yes, yes it has Also, Its quite wide and viewscreen almost goes entire section of the half circle. Thats all I can say atm. Ill post it as soon as I get chance (approve) . However, I have to add that its still concept and susceptible to (a lot) of changes.
AWESOME! Finally! The curve opps and conn couches get their chance on a real bridge! X3 THANK YOU, ANDY!!!
Also, from what you just said, I'm betting it's kinda like the two-story bridge he once sketched? ANDY6.jpgEDMBS001.jpgEDMBS029.jpg<- Yes, I tried building his two-story bridge sketch as well, and it was a pain-in-the-ass. The top, I just put an large engineering station, with a large emergency tranporter in front, and main tactical at the front between the turbolifts. (LaForge would never want to leave bridge upon seeing it! XD)
Oh! will the bridge sketches also have a door to the captain's ready room? You should ask Andy to sketch the ready room as well. =3
Also, from what you just said, I'm betting it's kinda like the two-story bridge he once sketched? ANDY6.jpgEDMBS001.jpgEDMBS029.jpg<- Yes, I tried building his two-story bridge sketch as well, and it was a pain-in-the-ass. The top, I just put an large engineering station, with a large emergency tranporter in front, and main tactical at the front between the turbolifts. (LaForge would never want to leave bridge upon seeing it! XD)
Oh! will the bridge sketches also have a door to the captain's ready room? You should ask Andy to sketch the ready room as well. =3
Lol, yeah this is one of them (didnt know that Andy released this one officially). The other one is similar to this, however its just a little bit narrower (smaller) and it resembles (in style) the D's bridge, but more curved/styled. Its a double decked bridge as well. Yes, it has passage way to the Cpt. office (on the one corner) and passage way to the conference lounge on the other.
This is all that I can say atm, I hope youll understand.
first its uneducated masses, now professional artists you saying have no sense of design - i think you need to realize that even professional designers get it wrong from time to time
industrial design is also no more a valid background for fictional starship design than a artist - and in any type of design or art work the same principle of shape and form apply - so when a professional artist gives a professional critique and suggests improvements and you just poo poo it and say it can be tweaked into anything - your not only missing the point and being a bit childish about it - your ignoring valid suggestions on how with relatively minor changes things can be improved
if your not willing to listen to feed back and just want to insult everyone who doesn't just say its brilliant then dont post in the WIP section - wait till its done and post in finished section
Lol, yeah this is one of them (didnt know that Andy released this one officially). The other one is similar to this, however its just a little bit narrower (smaller) and it resembles (in style) the D's bridge, but more curved/styled. Its a double decked bridge as well. Yes, it has passage way to the Cpt. office (on the one corner) and passage way to the conference lounge on the other.
This is all that I can say atm, I hope youll understand.
PS -gj on the lego bridge recreation -nice one!
Cheers
Thanks. I even did a LEGO TNG version of the Odyssey bridge from STO, and that's one bridge I'm never building again, as it nearly use every LEGO piece I had from my main box.
As for the Hasley bridge, so it's a cross between the two-story bridge concept he drew back in 86 & the final Galaxy-Class Bridge shown in the series? Interesting. Well, I can't wait to see what he comes up with. I just hope I pull off a LEGO replica when the time comes.
Well, I have to clear some of the issues here. I have a few posts of my own projects here and as I dont fancy myself as an good designer, I am more than glad to hear some good and constructive critique (from other angle than my own). As Im not industrial designer (rather just an artist with an idea), I tend to get stuck during the conceptual process, because Im guided with my limited artistic knowledge and experience (so no any advanced design experience -like industrial design). Also from that point, a few more sets of eyes are better than one, that could be indeed beneficial to the project, as long as it stays on course and true to my original vision.
However, on the other hand you have this thread and I had to address this properly.
if your not willing to listen to feed back and just want to insult everyone who doesn't just say its brilliant then dont post in the WIP section - wait till its done and post in finished section
I posted this thread because I wanted to share the work of Andrew Probert (you know, one of the actual creators of Star Trek) with people interested in this (as I know, I would be). This supposed to be a building/making process (step/b/step) of one of the established designers. So all interested people could benefit from this and maybe also learn something in the process. Anyone who lectures guys like this one (Probert) and are not willing (open their minds to it) to listen, watch and learn, should avoid this thread.
To say that you like it or not is ok, because its someones taste (eye of the Beholder), however to give "creative" guidelines and be upset if they are rejected (for some obvious reasons) are completely different matter.
Not atm. Andy is very busy guy and he didnt had time lately to continue this (paid project have priority). However, I expect continuation very soon. But, if you (or someone else) have any questions, Ill be glad to answer them in the mean time.
There is really no point in posting any more updates in the win section since your obviously set in what your doing so just continue working on it and show the finished product in the finished section
not viewed this whip!!! before.. feels like walking into a room halfway through an argument...
I'm not a fan of the design, but I admire your conviction vm, I wonder if you've had urges to make design changes yourself, that possibly you have ignored because you are trying to faithfully recreate somebody else's design.. its hard designing as you go in 3d tends to be a lot of stop and start then a few back steps... I'm currently stuck in that loop on a ship that I've been working on..
I don't buy your absolutist view of Rodenberry's star trek either.. yes I know it was support to be a utopian vision of the future but have you seen tos?? if kirk isn't punching someone, he's firing phasers and photon torpedoes at everything and threatening everyone with capital punishment.. hardly a more evolved sensibility...
but anyway that's off topic.. its nice to see a design that isn't a sovereign or constitution kit bash, even if it does look a little like a fetal abortion of the ent-d.. I'll reserve my hating the design until I see the finished model...
its certainly an interesting thread to keep an eye on..
not viewed this whip!!! before.. feels like walking into a room halfway through an argument...
I'm not a fan of the design, but I admire your conviction vm, I wonder if you've had urges to make design changes yourself, that possibly you have ignored because you are trying to faithfully recreate somebody else's design.. its hard designing as you go in 3d tends to be a lot of stop and start then a few back steps... I'm currently stuck in that loop on a ship that I've been working on..
I don't buy your absolutist view of Rodenberry's star trek either.. yes I know it was support to be a utopian vision of the future but have you seen tos?? if kirk isn't punching someone, he's firing phasers and photon torpedoes at everything and threatening everyone with capital punishment.. hardly a more evolved sensibility...
but anyway that's off topic.. its nice to see a design that isn't a sovereign or constitution kit bash, even if it does look a little like a fetal abortion of the ent-d.. I'll reserve my hating the design until I see the finished model...
its certainly an interesting thread to keep an eye on..
That's the spirit...and VM, good work (irregardless of the quality or lack-thereoff of the actual design)!
I'm not a fan of the design, but I admire your conviction vm, I wonder if you've had urges to make design changes yourself, that possibly you have ignored because you are trying to faithfully recreate somebody else's design.. its hard designing as you go in 3d tends to be a lot of stop and start then a few back steps... I'm currently stuck in that loop on a ship that I've been working on..
Yeah, good question there. No, I havent got any urges (lol). As the matter a fact, my attitude all this time is actually completely the opposite. I always wanted to see -original- Andy's work -so with no pesky studio or production limitations. And because Andy worked closely with Gene for many years, he knows how he thinks and what was his vision for the Star Trek as well. So I wanted to see that original Andy Probert's -F- design, without any foreign influences. Therefore Im just following his instructions 99% of the time and to be honest I welcome them in this case.
I don't buy your absolutist view of Rodenberry's star trek either.. yes I know it was support to be a utopian vision of the future but have you seen tos?? if kirk isn't punching someone, he's firing phasers and photon torpedoes at everything and threatening everyone with capital punishment.. hardly a more evolved sensibility...
Hehehe, nice one. I agree on some of those things. Original ST was cheese cheap entertainment and Gene tried to incorporate in that his vision of future for mankind. I have to say that unfortunately I hanvet watched entire 4 seasons of the original ST. But those that Ive watched, if you pass that cheap cheesiness, were quite serious and very, very, VERY good storylines. Something that you unfortunately really rarely see these days.
but anyway that's off topic.. its nice to see a design that isn't a sovereign or constitution kit bash, even if it does look a little like a fetal abortion of the ent-d.. I'll reserve my hating the design until I see the finished model...
Loool, Fair enough ...and I have to add: "I find your lack of faith...amusing"
I remember those bridge designs, I wasn't impressed. I thought it was too big for a starship and to have couches on the bridge was a bad idea. I also don't like the design of the ship.
I remember those bridge designs, I wasn't impressed. I thought it was too big for a starship and to have couches on the bridge was a bad idea. I also don't like the design of the ship.
Keep in mind those were exploratory sketches for pre-production. They had no real idea about how large the ship was, or frankly when the series was even set at the time these were made up.
One thing I thought I would mention, I like that the ship is tall. I feel like the ships have been trending to low slung styles too much in too many hulls. More mixing of short and tall ships makes more sense to me, with maybe the low slung ships being faster, while the tall ships may be more efficient for long durations, or some other beneficial mix of attributes. Anyway, I've missed tall ships in Trek.
Also, while I'm a fan of the lounge-bridge, it's purely for the aesthetic. I think making the bridge a lounge doesn't really make sense if it's an open lounge, because it seems like it would be a huge distraction for the crew. That is unless the only people in the lounge-bridge are bridge personnel kind of idling in place ready for an emergency. If that were the case, then I think that would be pretty cool, because it's like the ideal of giving a person a task, letting them finish in their own time, and if they have time left over, then they're allowed to spend that time as they see fit. Something like that.
very rare for me just to add in my two cents. - The work you are doing VM is good. As many have said, the design by Probert himself is flawed in my opinion.
Personally, I'm with VM and Gene's "absolutist view," but only to a certain degree. The 1st season of TNG sorta got me inspired to follow. ^^;
Still, like everyone else, I do prefer some action, and some cowboy diplomacy.
I'm sorta neutral on the subject. I like a bit of both worlds.
Oh please don't let this thread be dead. I need to see that bridge Andrew Probert is designing too. Plus, I want to see the final product of the Hasley-Class. =3
Posts
Lol. Well, I have couple of Andys illustration of what the bridge could look like. Unfortunately I cant share them atm
My point still stands Im sorry. You've mixed up departments -just |art|classes and industrial design are quite different. If you would know how much industrial design is advanced and complex, you wouldnt be so hasty in your critique. Dont get me wrong, I dont meant to discredit you or your work, or disrespect you, but I just cant take any of your critique and comments seriously and professionally and relay them to Andy (the guy who has more than 35 years experience as a industrial designer and artist), if you at least dont have same education department and some experience.
Lol could you imagine Leonardo's pigment maker saying to him how to draw a painting, or how this line is not good, or why this brush stroke just ruined his painting.
I accept your concession.
Books: [ Ashes of Alour-Tan | Embers of Alour-Tan ] | Blender Tutorials | Blog
1. If a 10 year old drew it, it would have countless super weapons and it would be a large ship the size of a planet. So please keep all 'childish' statements to yourself.
2. It's a concept, its not suppose to be super detailed or perfect. Only a the first step in creating a starship.
3. It needs refinement, yes, but it is no where near ugly. Look at the Freedom and Niagara classes. Those were pretty damn bad. Parts of it feel odd, but that's only because I'm use to the not-as-smooth ships we are use to seeing. I still would prefer a more circular deflector to fit the neck, but that's only my opinion and subject to consideration or not.
4. Looking at it again, I would say what might would fix the odd curve is if the front of the neck would have a larger curve into the saucer to echo the bottom better.
@__@;
I'm actually impressed by that statement, mostly because I thought my LEGO moc up would never live up to Andy & VMBlast's actual rendering. But as I said, I was using VMBlast's first 3D rendering with the larger saucer as a main reference, then use his later renderings to refine it further, with what lego parts I had available.
Also, replying to the "front half/back half" sense of the model, when I first did the ship in lego with the saucer exactly in size to VM's later rendering specs, I looked at it and thought, "It's too damn small! It doesn't look like a successor to the Galaxy Class. Looks more like an Intrepid Class." Plus, when seeing it from the top, it made the neck look too long. So I went back with the large saucer from the first rendering to balance the design out and to keep it within the realm of "Galaxy-class successor" <- also, when you look at the original Galaxy Class, and Doug Dexler's Enterprise-J (Universe-Class), it made more sense to me that the saucer should be larger, as to me, more advance ships get larger saucers as the technology from 24th to 26th century and beyond improves (Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong).
Thanks, McC. =3
I MUST SEE THESE BRIDGE ILLUSTRATIONS when you post them, VM.
I would LOVE to build a LEGO moc up of a Hasley-Class bridge to go with the ship I built (of course, it will be galaxy-class colors (yellow, red, etc.), since all my white pieces are being used). But please, PLEASE tell me the bridge sketch at least has the curved couches built into the Opps and Conn Station, just like in Andy's original '86 Galaxy-Class sketches:
http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/53259/1393000318m_DISPLAY.jpg & http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/53259/1393000324m_DISPLAY.jpg
or
1393000124m_DISPLAY.jpg<-(BTW, that's my current LEGO bridge moc up. more pics here: http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/381772)
That would make me SO happy! =3
Yes, yes it has
AWESOME! Finally! The curve opps and conn couches get their chance on a real bridge! X3 THANK YOU, ANDY!!!
Also, from what you just said, I'm betting it's kinda like the two-story bridge he once sketched?
ANDY6.jpgEDMBS001.jpgEDMBS029.jpg<- Yes, I tried building his two-story bridge sketch as well, and it was a pain-in-the-ass. The top, I just put an large engineering station, with a large emergency tranporter in front, and main tactical at the front between the turbolifts. (LaForge would never want to leave bridge upon seeing it! XD)
Oh! will the bridge sketches also have a door to the captain's ready room? You should ask Andy to sketch the ready room as well. =3
Lol, yeah this is one of them (didnt know that Andy released this one officially). The other one is similar to this, however its just a little bit narrower (smaller) and it resembles (in style) the D's bridge, but more curved/styled. Its a double decked bridge as well. Yes, it has passage way to the Cpt. office (on the one corner) and passage way to the conference lounge on the other.
This is all that I can say atm, I hope youll understand.
PS -gj on the lego bridge recreation -nice one!
Cheers
industrial design is also no more a valid background for fictional starship design than a artist - and in any type of design or art work the same principle of shape and form apply - so when a professional artist gives a professional critique and suggests improvements and you just poo poo it and say it can be tweaked into anything - your not only missing the point and being a bit childish about it - your ignoring valid suggestions on how with relatively minor changes things can be improved
if your not willing to listen to feed back and just want to insult everyone who doesn't just say its brilliant then dont post in the WIP section - wait till its done and post in finished section
Thanks. I even did a LEGO TNG version of the Odyssey bridge from STO, and that's one bridge I'm never building again, as it nearly use every LEGO piece I had from my main box.
As for the Hasley bridge, so it's a cross between the two-story bridge concept he drew back in 86 & the final Galaxy-Class Bridge shown in the series? Interesting. Well, I can't wait to see what he comes up with. I just hope I pull off a LEGO replica when the time comes.
I think it wasn't clear that the comment was directed at colbmista, not vmblast
However, on the other hand you have this thread and I had to address this properly.
I posted this thread because I wanted to share the work of Andrew Probert (you know, one of the actual creators of Star Trek) with people interested in this (as I know, I would be). This supposed to be a building/making process (step/b/step) of one of the established designers. So all interested people could benefit from this and maybe also learn something in the process. Anyone who lectures guys like this one (Probert) and are not willing (open their minds to it) to listen, watch and learn, should avoid this thread.
To say that you like it or not is ok, because its someones taste (eye of the Beholder), however to give "creative" guidelines and be upset if they are rejected (for some obvious reasons) are completely different matter.
Not atm. Andy is very busy guy and he didnt had time lately to continue this (paid project have priority). However, I expect continuation very soon. But, if you (or someone else) have any questions, Ill be glad to answer them in the mean time.
Lol. You can critique all you want as far as Im concerned, just dont expect any changes on account of that.
I'm not a fan of the design, but I admire your conviction vm, I wonder if you've had urges to make design changes yourself, that possibly you have ignored because you are trying to faithfully recreate somebody else's design.. its hard designing as you go in 3d tends to be a lot of stop and start then a few back steps... I'm currently stuck in that loop on a ship that I've been working on..
I don't buy your absolutist view of Rodenberry's star trek either.. yes I know it was support to be a utopian vision of the future but have you seen tos?? if kirk isn't punching someone, he's firing phasers and photon torpedoes at everything and threatening everyone with capital punishment.. hardly a more evolved sensibility...
but anyway that's off topic.. its nice to see a design that isn't a sovereign or constitution kit bash, even if it does look a little like a fetal abortion of the ent-d.. I'll reserve my hating the design until I see the finished model...
its certainly an interesting thread to keep an eye on..
Yeah, good question there. No, I havent got any urges (lol). As the matter a fact, my attitude all this time is actually completely the opposite. I always wanted to see -original- Andy's work -so with no pesky studio or production limitations. And because Andy worked closely with Gene for many years, he knows how he thinks and what was his vision for the Star Trek as well. So I wanted to see that original Andy Probert's -F- design, without any foreign influences. Therefore Im just following his instructions 99% of the time and to be honest I welcome them in this case.
Hehehe, nice one. I agree on some of those things. Original ST was cheese cheap entertainment and Gene tried to incorporate in that his vision of future for mankind. I have to say that unfortunately I hanvet watched entire 4 seasons of the original ST. But those that Ive watched, if you pass that cheap cheesiness, were quite serious and very, very, VERY good storylines. Something that you unfortunately really rarely see these days.
Loool, Fair enough
Cheers
Keep in mind those were exploratory sketches for pre-production. They had no real idea about how large the ship was, or frankly when the series was even set at the time these were made up.
Also, while I'm a fan of the lounge-bridge, it's purely for the aesthetic. I think making the bridge a lounge doesn't really make sense if it's an open lounge, because it seems like it would be a huge distraction for the crew. That is unless the only people in the lounge-bridge are bridge personnel kind of idling in place ready for an emergency. If that were the case, then I think that would be pretty cool, because it's like the ideal of giving a person a task, letting them finish in their own time, and if they have time left over, then they're allowed to spend that time as they see fit. Something like that.
Still, like everyone else, I do prefer some action, and some cowboy diplomacy.
I'm sorta neutral on the subject. I like a bit of both worlds.