Still not totally sold on this design, but your take on it is definitely improving. I like the flow of details from the neck to the primary hull. The warp nacelles are improving and look a little more integrated with the ergonomic lines of the rest of the ship, but still need a little work, especially where the pylons attach to them. The pylon shape has improved a lot I think that really helps with the overall shape of the vessel. It is definitely getting there.
Interesting design here and a nice rendition of it, but two things keep bugging me:
1.: I never liked impulse engines that were off center. I'd suggst you move it down, shrink it if you have to. (I have no problems with its current size, wouldn't even if you centered it properly, but that might take up too much space that's needed for other stuff down there.)
2.: The separation line looks too straight up. Kind of goes against the general fluidity of the design. Angle it backwards a little and maybe integrate the lower "lip" into the saucer like on the Galaxy class.
Looks much better now in my opinion, the first version looked as if it were a smaller vessel. The only part of the design I don't like are the nacelles, definitively too angular compared to the rest of the ship.
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
Yeah, it's definitely looking better now. It's still not my favorite design in the world but it's growing on me and your modeling is definitely excellent.
hmmm the nacelles dont look right - to triangluar they dont seem to fit the rest of the flowing design - overall not sure about the design primarily because it looks small - maybe once some more details added will help that, but the impulse engine is HUGE which i think is one of the main things that makes the ship as a whole look smaller
interested to see it when you get a deflector on there and some windows to help add scale
overall not sure about the design primarily because it looks small - maybe once some more details added will help that, but the impulse engine is HUGE which i think is one of the main things that makes the ship as a whole look smaller
interested to see it when you get a deflector on there and some windows to help add scale
You are right on the money. The main reason that it looks small (like a toy or a model), is that there is no other recognizable references to us humans. Thats the way our brains are wired up, if there is something unknown to us, on the subconscious level, we are looking for points of references that we can recognize. I did some tests with windows and I can tell you right now, that the ship just jumps out and immediately becomes huge when you have dozens of tiny lights in there
I scaled down a bit impulse engine after those renders, but main point is that Ive tried to follow Mr. Proberts design to the letter as much as possible. And he is the guy who designed the famous Ent-D -If he'd designed today, Im sure that there would be a bunch of people nagging about all sorts of things concerning design....which always comes from the eye of the beholder. If you start making changes non stop to be approved by everyone, you end up with nothing at the end. Thats the thing about design and art -you ether like it or dont and thats that
While it truly looks great what you do, I still think the design itself is botched....
i do think the design needs work - the nacelles are all wrong and think it needs something to contain the deflector along with abit more mass in the secondary hull too
but its modeled true to the concept - think the problem is that it was never finished - but still dont think this one compares the D and i disagreee on the E - i thought it looks very star trek and worthy sucessor to the D
I’ve been working closely with Andrew Probert on the new Enterpise F model and this is the result. We've managed only to finish just a base shape of the model, so no details in there yet. New direction of the ST starships design is going towards more compact, sleek and sculptured look and Probert is all about natural lineflow. As Leonardo da Vinci said: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”.
Ship is 488 m long and 128 m high. By my rough calculations it has 44 decks.
I am ambivalent about this. Some angles look great (front) while others (ummm, I guess it's 3/4 aft, below) look a bit like a soft stuffed animal. And in the 3/4 aft, above view, the 'neck' looks too long for my taste.
i like it, always fun to see where you can take a concept design.
my worthless 2 cents: while i like the flow of the design, it just seems too "bulky" for a ship of the size it's supposed to represent, the syling and shapes make it look like it "should" be hardly larger than a shuttlecraft.
I like it a lot, and I can only guess how awesome it'll look when you start adding details.
Only 488m? I guess it makes sense, given that it's bulkier than previous ships, but it still strikes me as a little bit too small for a new Enterprise.
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
Only 488m? I guess it makes sense, given that it's bulkier than previous ships, but it still strikes me as a little bit too small for a new Enterprise.
Yeh, I thought that exactly when I started this project. However in discussion with Probert, I got impression that he envisioned that on purpose, the dimensions I mean. The story behind it is, that it should stylistically parallel the difference between Constitution (refit) class and Excelsior (the new F is somewhat based on the Constitution motif). So, the difference between the F and new Federation flag ship (which we dont know what itll be yet) will reflect that difference as well.
Personally I'd reduce the height overall - the interhull connect being so tall is lending the ship the "duck-like" profile that some of the earlier concept iterations of the E-D did.
Yeh, I thought that exactly when I started this project. However in discussion with Probert, I got impression that he envisioned that on purpose, the dimensions I mean. The story behind it is, that it should stylistically parallel the difference between Constitution (refit) class and Excelsior (the new F is somewhat based on the Constitution motif). So, the difference between the F and new Federation flag ship (which we dont know what itll be yet) will reflect that difference as well.
Ok, I like that idea. I was under the impression that the Ent-F WAS the new flagship, but now I see this design with different eyes, and like it even more.
The idea of the Enterprise as another starship, rather than as the flagship, is, in my opinion, much cooler from a story perspective. It gives the creative freedom to have the ship being ordered somewhere, or just exploring the unknown without giving much explanation of those orders. (I hope I explained that in an understandable way)
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
Defiitely looks much better than the first version. I'm still not sold on the design though - I really like Probert's concept but I think it still needs proportional refinement. I think the curvatures of one section into the next are just a bit too flowing, it needs some tension here and there. But still, looking good. I think 488m is way too small though, I'd say the design looks "big" so maybe it should be at least 650m long. But it is your build, so you must do it your way of course.
I think 488m is way too small though, I'd say the design looks "big" so maybe it should be at least 650m long. But it is your build, so you must do it your way of course.
As said before, that was my first impression. However Probert was very explicit concerning dimensions (as he said to me -big is not always better-). Sure, I am making this study, but it is his design/build and I am honored to be part of it. And I have to say here, that every line, every corner, connection, curve and ratio in this study, have its own story and answer to why is it there. Everything was very, very carefully thought through. The story with the D was almost the same, the only thing missing is that no one saw it before it appeared on TV screens, hence no possible way of complaining.
A little digression -the Borg was killed with one single blow by the studio. Introducing the Borg Queen, annihilated their own storyline and Gene's idea and thought process behind their purpose. The existence of the queen contradicts and its paradox to the very idea of the collective. The Borg from the movie stopped existing as a collective and became a beehive. When that happened all the horror and tension faded. They where the ultimate adversary -how to oppose or stop/kill something that consist of billions of neurons (drones). All of the Borg was the single collective entity.
^ No, because the complaining was evidently done by Gene and the producers during the refinement stage. That is why we've seen so many concept iterations before the final product was reached.
^ No, because the complaining was evidently done by Gene and the producers during the refinement stage. That is why we've seen so many concept iterations before the final product was reached.
Nope, the process was that Probert did a bunch of sketches and concepts first. Ones refined he talked with Gene and producers, because in those days, they had limitation of practical modeling and what they could actually build and it was collaborative process. And since he worked with Gene from 79' (ST TMP), he knew what he wanted from the start for the D, when they talked about the TNG. The only thing when someone really -complained-, was when final tech design was finished (very final stage of the the design), Probert told me that Gene only insisted to add bridge dome on the top of the model and stretch a bit back side of the nacelles. He didnt liked the idea of bridge being on the top of the ship exposed, because his original idea and logic was that in new class of the starships, the bridge should be inside of the hull, secluded and well protected (he transferred that idea to this F as well). However, Gene was the boss so that was it. So, after working with Gene for years and knowing him personal, he understands very well in which direction would it all go after Gene's death. And the F is natural result of that knowledge.
Gene was all about piece, exploration and positive view towards human evolution in the future and not wars and battleships (which we well groom in our pop culture today sadly). Probert hated it what studios did to the franchise after G passed away. The whole concept of TNG (at least in 2/3 of the seasons when Gene was still alive) was the exploration of the self, broadening our views, understanding of new concepts of life existence and how human kind evolved intellectually and emotionally to cope with some new difficulties.
The F came from years of cooperation with Gene and understanding of his idea and ethos for the ST.
I must say it is growing on me, but in my opinion, the saucer area is a bit too thick and I think overall the ship is a bit "tall" - I think it would look better if it was a bit thinner top to bottom overall. Also, given any thought to the size/shape/distribution of windows? Will it have an external bridge module as is traditional or will be be buried in the centre of the ship as Probert originall intended for the -D?
Would like to see some ortho renders to judge the proportions.
Also here are some tests Ive done for the level of detail, for this study. I think we'll go for full realistic approach
Not that Ill model every room, maybe just those important ones -such as officers lounge (if visible), arboretum, some command posts etc. VR_F_windows_testing002.jpgVR_F_windows_testing001.jpgmaya_windowsTest_03.jpg
Surely not the easiest shape to complete - but IAâm sure you have a great time working with Andy! I love how he thinks everything through. If you work with the kind of detail youAâve done on the latest test, youAâll get quite a monster in the end...
IAâm with Wishbone here. I think overall the ship is a bit "tall", and it would look better if the neck was a bit thinner top to bottom. Other thing that IAâm thinking, is about the naceles. They looks a bit thin and short than it would be. As Gene asked for the "D", I suggest you to make them a little longer and extended a bit longer in the backside.
Other than that, youAâre doing a good work.
Posts
1.: I never liked impulse engines that were off center. I'd suggst you move it down, shrink it if you have to. (I have no problems with its current size, wouldn't even if you centered it properly, but that might take up too much space that's needed for other stuff down there.)
2.: The separation line looks too straight up. Kind of goes against the general fluidity of the design. Angle it backwards a little and maybe integrate the lower "lip" into the saucer like on the Galaxy class.
Fair enough, though I'm confident he's cool with it. Great updates!
interested to see it when you get a deflector on there and some windows to help add scale
You are right on the money. The main reason that it looks small (like a toy or a model), is that there is no other recognizable references to us humans. Thats the way our brains are wired up, if there is something unknown to us, on the subconscious level, we are looking for points of references that we can recognize. I did some tests with windows and I can tell you right now, that the ship just jumps out and immediately becomes huge when you have dozens of tiny lights in there
I scaled down a bit impulse engine after those renders, but main point is that Ive tried to follow Mr. Proberts design to the letter as much as possible. And he is the guy who designed the famous Ent-D -If he'd designed today, Im sure that there would be a bunch of people nagging about all sorts of things concerning design....which always comes from the eye of the beholder. If you start making changes non stop to be approved by everyone, you end up with nothing at the end. Thats the thing about design and art -you ether like it or dont and thats that
i do think the design needs work - the nacelles are all wrong and think it needs something to contain the deflector along with abit more mass in the secondary hull too
but its modeled true to the concept - think the problem is that it was never finished - but still dont think this one compares the D and i disagreee on the E - i thought it looks very star trek and worthy sucessor to the D
I’ve been working closely with Andrew Probert on the new Enterpise F model and this is the result. We've managed only to finish just a base shape of the model, so no details in there yet. New direction of the ST starships design is going towards more compact, sleek and sculptured look and Probert is all about natural lineflow. As Leonardo da Vinci said: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”.
Ship is 488 m long and 128 m high. By my rough calculations it has 44 decks.
More to come in the future hopefully
Enjoy
my worthless 2 cents: while i like the flow of the design, it just seems too "bulky" for a ship of the size it's supposed to represent, the syling and shapes make it look like it "should" be hardly larger than a shuttlecraft.
Only 488m? I guess it makes sense, given that it's bulkier than previous ships, but it still strikes me as a little bit too small for a new Enterprise.
Yeh, I thought that exactly when I started this project. However in discussion with Probert, I got impression that he envisioned that on purpose, the dimensions I mean. The story behind it is, that it should stylistically parallel the difference between Constitution (refit) class and Excelsior (the new F is somewhat based on the Constitution motif). So, the difference between the F and new Federation flag ship (which we dont know what itll be yet) will reflect that difference as well.
Ok, I like that idea. I was under the impression that the Ent-F WAS the new flagship, but now I see this design with different eyes, and like it even more.
The idea of the Enterprise as another starship, rather than as the flagship, is, in my opinion, much cooler from a story perspective. It gives the creative freedom to have the ship being ordered somewhere, or just exploring the unknown without giving much explanation of those orders. (I hope I explained that in an understandable way)
I wonder of the idea was to make the borg laugh themselves into a state of incapacitation by sending a fleet of these after one of their cubes.
As said before, that was my first impression. However Probert was very explicit concerning dimensions (as he said to me -big is not always better-). Sure, I am making this study, but it is his design/build and I am honored to be part of it. And I have to say here, that every line, every corner, connection, curve and ratio in this study, have its own story and answer to why is it there. Everything was very, very carefully thought through. The story with the D was almost the same, the only thing missing is that no one saw it before it appeared on TV screens, hence no possible way of complaining.
A little digression -the Borg was killed with one single blow by the studio. Introducing the Borg Queen, annihilated their own storyline and Gene's idea and thought process behind their purpose. The existence of the queen contradicts and its paradox to the very idea of the collective. The Borg from the movie stopped existing as a collective and became a beehive. When that happened all the horror and tension faded. They where the ultimate adversary -how to oppose or stop/kill something that consist of billions of neurons (drones). All of the Borg was the single collective entity.
Nope, the process was that Probert did a bunch of sketches and concepts first. Ones refined he talked with Gene and producers, because in those days, they had limitation of practical modeling and what they could actually build and it was collaborative process. And since he worked with Gene from 79' (ST TMP), he knew what he wanted from the start for the D, when they talked about the TNG. The only thing when someone really -complained-, was when final tech design was finished (very final stage of the the design), Probert told me that Gene only insisted to add bridge dome on the top of the model and stretch a bit back side of the nacelles. He didnt liked the idea of bridge being on the top of the ship exposed, because his original idea and logic was that in new class of the starships, the bridge should be inside of the hull, secluded and well protected (he transferred that idea to this F as well). However, Gene was the boss so that was it. So, after working with Gene for years and knowing him personal, he understands very well in which direction would it all go after Gene's death. And the F is natural result of that knowledge.
Gene was all about piece, exploration and positive view towards human evolution in the future and not wars and battleships (which we well groom in our pop culture today sadly). Probert hated it what studios did to the franchise after G passed away. The whole concept of TNG (at least in 2/3 of the seasons when Gene was still alive) was the exploration of the self, broadening our views, understanding of new concepts of life existence and how human kind evolved intellectually and emotionally to cope with some new difficulties.
The F came from years of cooperation with Gene and understanding of his idea and ethos for the ST.
F_Probert.png
Would like to see some ortho renders to judge the proportions.
F_Bay_launch.jpgF_Bay_land.jpgF_Bay_top.jpgF_Bay_bottom.jpg
Also here are some tests Ive done for the level of detail, for this study. I think we'll go for full realistic approach
Not that Ill model every room, maybe just those important ones -such as officers lounge (if visible), arboretum, some command posts etc.
VR_F_windows_testing002.jpg VR_F_windows_testing001.jpgmaya_windowsTest_03.jpg
Surely not the easiest shape to complete - but IAâm sure you have a great time working with Andy! I love how he thinks everything through. If you work with the kind of detail youAâve done on the latest test, youAâll get quite a monster in the end...
Other than that, youAâre doing a good work.