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AnimationStar Trek: Retribution

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  • oldmangregoldmangreg198 Woodland Hills, CAPosts: 1,339Member
    colbmista wrote: »
    i have a right to my opinion and his storys suck beacuse there are for to much chatting in the stories and it sucks even more beacuase he casts him self as every single character which brings the quality of the series to a 1/10 rating

    Wow. You do realize that pretty much most Star Trek episodes are like that? And ignorantly you did not read earlier that he casts himself as every character so he can perfect the lip syncing of each dialogue before he casts someone as that character, because it would be to long to adjust the movement of the lips if he finds something wrong. Stop complaining about the story and voices and appreciate the movie for what it is.
    Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    Well, we're not at Earth so that's a no-go :) If you want a planet I could add something in for some scenery though.

    As for the interior, believe me that's not at all what the final product is going to look like. Dealing with that interior is a nightmare, partly because the filmmakers cheated in III-VI: they had the dock interior as one element, and the ships as another, which were then composited together, and all were lit separately. I decided I didn't want to do that, and that everything would always be together in the same shot--but going that route is making things very complicated. I messed around with it for a while before I just gave up (for now), I figured since they're ultimately just preview clips but not the final products I could go back and perfect the shots later.

    yeah, add a gas giant in the background. Its theoretically impossible to find something thats in deep space unless you know exactly where to look for it, but a gas-giant in a strategic system would make sense to have an orbiting starbase.

    My opinions about the clip:
    1. When prentice gets off the lift, the conn officer should announce "captain on the bridge." It may be that the captain prefers to waive that custom, but when he returns from off-ship, its usually (not always) done.
    2. Rayf is too predictable. Instead of having the whole discussion with thornton, she should instead say "Admiral Rayf will accompany you as our romulan expert" or whatever. When Rayf gets on the bridge, instead of "admiral on the bridge" (its not his commnad, an admiral never overrules a skipper on his ship (there are exceptions) unless the admiral has some command involvement. Here he's just a superior officer outside the chain of command) RAYF should say "permission to come aboard, sir?"
    3. The blue light doesnt work for me, instead, dim the ambient lights a drop, and flash some very minor blue lights in the background (or get rid of it altogether)
    4. I dislike the weird shape of the tactical console. i get it, different timeline, refit, blahblahblah. its your call, but i think it distracts.
    5. Whats the 3-1/2 pips on kendra for? XO is usually full commander, 3 pips, unless taking a temporary grade reduction from captain (only 1 captain on the ship, except for visiting guests). You could add the rank of "colonel" (naval) but i dont think it works.
    6. I think comping the spacedock is better. othewise youre looking at rendering hell.
    7. I think the shuttle insides are too big. Maybe take a stab at the runabout lounge from "Timescape", and shrink the cockpit just a drop?
    8. The Fitzy reveal: Whats with the "A"? is it considered a full refit of the original Fitzy? is it a new Fitzy?
    9. The Fitzy reveal: Please tell me youre going to redo those visuals?
    10. Engineer: drop the Scotty line, please? Not every engineer attempts to emulate the [in]famous Captain Scott, who, while being a decorated hero, was still an unorthodox engineer from an unorthodox starfleet. times have changed.
    11. Romulan Starbase pull-away: drop it. Cut right from the end of Thrawns dialog (its not proven to be Garr, so until it is, he's Thrawn. K?)
    12. Can you send me the script for the "depart spacedock" sequence? i have some changes in mind. thanks.
    12a. Add some lines to indicate when theyre on alignment for the spacedock exit. Then "punch it!"
  • hazendhazend171 Posts: 0Member
    Tnpir,

    You've gone above and beyond yet again.

    Only one thing to add if I may,

    At 8:16 I noticed that Kendra's legs weren't in the same spot as her shoes.

    As far as story and content though, it looks great. It's pulling in my interest.

    Thanks
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    yeah, add a gas giant in the background. Its theoretically impossible to find something thats in deep space unless you know exactly where to look for it, but a gas-giant in a strategic system would make sense to have an orbiting starbase.

    Gas giant sounds good...I actually have a Ceti Alpha V lookalike for a deleted scene from Specter, so adding that in would be no problem.
    1. When prentice gets off the lift, the conn officer should announce "captain on the bridge." It may be that the captain prefers to waive that custom, but when he returns from off-ship, its usually (not always) done.

    2. Rayf is too predictable. Instead of having the whole discussion with thornton, she should instead say "Admiral Rayf will accompany you as our romulan expert" or whatever. When Rayf gets on the bridge, instead of "admiral on the bridge" (its not his commnad, an admiral never overrules a skipper on his ship (there are exceptions) unless the admiral has some command involvement. Here he's just a superior officer outside the chain of command) RAYF should say "permission to come aboard, sir?"

    I actually thought about that, Prentice is the type of captain who wouldn't be so formal and would waive that rule. Reyf, remember, was always much more formal, and remember also that the officer who acknowledged him is the same nervous girl who was stammering in his ready room in Specter (we'll hear their last names spoken in dialogue at some point).

    EDIT: as for him being "too predictable," believe me when I tell you that's not the case. We'll find that out in the next scene, which will show Reyf giving a briefing that fills in some of the holes. Trust me when I say they aren't slipping back into their roles from Specter. :) You'll see what I mean in the very next scene, which is why it was so important to have him come aboard now, for him to be present during the launch sequence. His acknowledgement that the Fitzgerald is Prentice's now is all about letting the audience know that these characters are grown up now and that they're going to be facing some problems that are a lot more substantive than what we saw in Specter.
    3. The blue light doesnt work for me, instead, dim the ambient lights a drop, and flash some very minor blue lights in the background (or get rid of it altogether)

    This is one of those rare times when I'm simply going to say "tough." :)
    4. I dislike the weird shape of the tactical console. i get it, different timeline, refit, blahblahblah. its your call, but i think it distracts.

    I assume that's a reference to the silver add-on right behind the captain's chair? It's already been seen in the future timeframe of "All Good Things," so it more or less has to be there. Gonna hang onto it...it looks simple, but it took a lot of effort to make :)
    5. Whats the 3-1/2 pips on kendra for? XO is usually full commander, 3 pips, unless taking a temporary grade reduction from captain (only 1 captain on the ship, except for visiting guests). You could add the rank of "colonel" (naval) but i dont think it works.

    That's one of those things that's explainable by us being in an alternate timeline here. In-universe it's explained as "captain junior grade," a rank reserved exclusively for the first officer of a ship (to distinguish from all the other commanders aboard). From a real-world perspective, I just thought it was a nice subtle twist on commander's rank.

    (I'm surprised no one's caught--or mentioned--the fact that Hargrove's uniform is darker than Kal's; in this film, security officers and engineering will both wear gold, but security's will be darker so you can distinguish between them. Likewise, medical officers will have the traditional blue, while science officers will have a greener tint. Haven't decided if I'm going to have two shades of red yet for command staff.)
    6. I think comping the spacedock is better. othewise youre looking at rendering hell.

    When it started out, you were right--that animation of the shuttles flying by would've taken ten days to render. But I've been reworking the lighting, and I've come up with a way to render it that doesn't sacrifice the quality but greatly speeds up the render process. I already redid the shuttle flyby and the pan to the Insignia and the pan to the Fitzgerald, and the shot from the comm call and the registry shot are rendering now. The launch sequence is going to require some extra work, but I think it'll go well.
    7. I think the shuttle insides are too big. Maybe take a stab at the runabout lounge from "Timescape", and shrink the cockpit just a drop?

    I thought about that, but didn't for a couple of reasons: one, I wanted to use something different than the usual shuttlecraft/runabout; two, I'm trying to avoid building any new sets if I can in order to speed up production; and three, most importantly, I wanted to use something with a "post modern" feel to it. The Volga fit the bill on all counts...gonna stick with that one.

    (Besides, who's to say that it's not a VIP shuttle from the starbase, requisitioned by the admiral, to transport the captain back to his ship in comfort?)
    8. The Fitzy reveal: Whats with the "A"? is it considered a full refit of the original Fitzy? is it a new Fitzy?

    Nope, same ship we've always had :) NCC-85107-A was the registry number in Specter as well. Remember the Yamato from "Where Silence Has Lease" had NCC-1305-E.
    9. The Fitzy reveal: Please tell me youre going to redo those visuals?

    If by "redo" you mean "re-render at regular resolution," then yes :) Most definitely...the shots we have were rendered at the settings you see simply to make them faster.
    10. Engineer: drop the Scotty line, please? Not every engineer attempts to emulate the [in]famous Captain Scott, who, while being a decorated hero, was still an unorthodox engineer from an unorthodox starfleet. times have changed.

    Remember we have a music cue we have to keep time with, and Mitchell has to say something there to indicate she's ready and on top of things. I'm open to suggestions.
    11. Romulan Starbase pull-away: drop it. Cut right from the end of Thrawns dialog (its not proven to be Garr, so until it is, he's Thrawn. K?)

    Who says it's not Thrawn? :) All we know is it's someone very dark and very scary, with red eyes. All the pullback does, with that pounding music cue, is confirm that this is Drakus, and he's a mean fellow that's going to give us some headaches.
    12. Can you send me the script for the "depart spacedock" sequence? i have some changes in mind. thanks.
    12a. Add some lines to indicate when theyre on alignment for the spacedock exit. Then "punch it!"

    Will send you the script directly, but "punch it" is too obvious a rip-off of Star Trek XI. :)
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    I actually thought about that, Prentice is the type of captain who wouldn't be so formal and would waive that rule. Reyf, remember, was always much more formal, and remember also that the officer who acknowledged him is the same nervous girl who was stammering in his ready room in Specter (we'll hear their last names spoken in dialogue at some point).
    I can't argue that, nonetheless, it "feels" (sounds?) better for someone to say "captain on the bridge" rather than "admiral...etc" as its the captains ship, not the admirals. Maybe have prentice wave it off? i still argue that its better for a visiting admiral to say "permission to come aboard, captain?" unless he;s already been invited - he's not.
    EDIT: as for him being "too predictable," believe me when I tell you that's not the case. We'll find that out in the next scene, which will show Reyf giving a briefing that fills in some of the holes. Trust me when I say they aren't slipping back into their roles from Specter. :) You'll see what I mean in the very next scene, which is why it was so important to have him come aboard now, for him to be present during the launch sequence. His acknowledgement that the Fitzgerald is Prentice's now is all about letting the audience know that these characters are grown up now and that they're going to be facing some problems that are a lot more substantive than what we saw in Specter.
    then write him in earlier, it was obvious the moment Thornton said a romulan expert was going to advise the fitzy crew. So, instead of troping it, just change it to "And captain, Admiral Reyf has been assigned to the Fitzy as your romulan expert (etc)". And then its no longer predictable 'cause its already happened.
    This is one of those rare times when I'm simply going to say "tough." :)
    youre the boss, but if its giving me a headache, imagine what kind of headache its giving to the crew, who actually need to make sure the ship doesnt crash into spacedock on the way out :D
    I assume that's a reference to the silver add-on right behind the captain's chair? It's already been seen in the future timeframe of "All Good Things," so it more or less has to be there. Gonna hang onto it...it looks simple, but it took a lot of effort to make :)
    I don't like it personally, but again, its your decision. However, i dont think it was seen in All Good Things, it was seen in Yesterday's Enterprise and Parallels.
    I thought about that, but didn't for a couple of reasons: one, I wanted to use something different than the usual shuttlecraft/runabout; two, I'm trying to avoid building any new sets if I can in order to speed up production; and three, most importantly, I wanted to use something with a "post modern" feel to it. The Volga fit the bill on all counts...gonna stick with that one.

    (Besides, who's to say that it's not a VIP shuttle from the starbase, requisitioned by the admiral, to transport the captain back to his ship in comfort?)
    Oh alright, but it looks too big, and i dont think the visual is rendered properly. BTW, are prentice and kendra married?
    Remember we have a music cue we have to keep time with, and Mitchell has to say something there to indicate she's ready and on top of things. I'm open to suggestions.
    "Engines are good, captain" "We're ready to rock'n'roll" "Ready down here, capt'!" etc etc.
    All the pullback does, with that pounding music cue, is confirm that this is Drakus, and he's a mean fellow that's going to give us some headaches.
    you get that from the music, the visual of the starbase and the conversation with the romulan (btw, romulans do have hair. sometimes)
    I think the station pullback is unnecessary
    but "punch it" is too obvious a rip-off of Star Trek XI. :)
    right, forgot, sorry.
    "Take us out" "Engage" "Ensign?" "Let's do it" "Proceed" "Alright gang, lets do this!" etc etc.
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    I can't argue that, nonetheless, it "feels" (sounds?) better for someone to say "captain on the bridge" rather than "admiral...etc" as its the captains ship, not the admirals. Maybe have prentice wave it off? i still argue that its better for a visiting admiral to say "permission to come aboard, captain?" unless he;s already been invited - he's not.

    Oh but he has--remember, they were told to expect someone, just not whom to expect. :)
    then write him in earlier, it was obvious the moment Thornton said a romulan expert was going to advise the fitzy crew. So, instead of troping it, just change it to "And captain, Admiral Reyf has been assigned to the Fitzy as your romulan expert (etc)". And then its no longer predictable 'cause its already happened.

    Nope...if we did that, then we'd lose too many fun opportunities to complain about the unpleasant bureaucrat we're afraid of getting stuck with. That makes the first time we see him that much more ironic and funny. It may be predictable, but it works :)
    youre the boss, but if its giving me a headache, imagine what kind of headache its giving to the crew, who actually need to make sure the ship doesnt crash into spacedock on the way out :D

    I'm not worried...this isn't GalaxyQuest after all :)
    I don't like it personally, but again, its your decision. However, i dont think it was seen in All Good Things, it was seen in Yesterday's Enterprise and Parallels.

    NEVER argue with me about Trek trivia, especially on this topic :)

    Bridge in Yesterday's Enterprise (not present)
    Bridge in Parallels (present)
    Bridge in AGT's "Future Tense" (present)
    Oh alright, but it looks too big, and i dont think the visual is rendered properly. BTW, are prentice and kendra married?

    Nope. Prentice is unmarried, but Kendra used to be. Notice we've only referred to her by her first name in dialogue so far :) We'll find out more in a scene coming up.
    "Engines are good, captain" "We're ready to rock'n'roll" "Ready down here, capt'!" etc etc.

    Don't like either of those...one sounds boring, the other sounds like something Zefram Cochrane would say. :)
    you get that from the music, the visual of the starbase and the conversation with the romulan (btw, romulans do have hair. sometimes)
    I think the station pullback is unnecessary

    STXI established that they are, and I'm going to go with that since I don't have any other way to really distinguish them from Vulcans. There are no Romulan head morphs that I've been able to find.
    right, forgot, sorry.

    Details are important :)
    "Take us out" "Engage" "Ensign?" "Let's do it" "Proceed" "Alright gang, lets do this!" etc etc.

    "Take us out" was used once already. "Engage" is inappropriate since we're already moving. And the other three only work if the ship is standing still when they're said. Sorry, but I already looked at many different ways to phrase it, and what I have is the least awkward but most efficient that I've been able to find.
  • Dr-TimelordDr-Timelord0 Posts: 0Member
    How bout he just waves his hand and goes " that way" , great homage to TMP lol/jk

    but you could always have a throw back to TOS where instead of saying ' make it so' etc, Kirk would just say, " Helm, plot a course for blah blah, ahead Warp One " or do a variation


    Lines for Mitchell..
    " Engines online, Just give us the word Captain " like a throwback to TWOK

    Speaking of TWOK, Kirk did ask the captain of the ship (spock) permission to come aboard the Enterprise, and when he made it to the bridge Sulu annoucned Admiral on the Bridge, So i dont see why you can't have the two.
    Same on ST VI, You do hear ' Captain on the bridge'

    I kinda wish Thrawn WAS the villian now :p, he was brilliant in the Thawn trilogy

    Yes. you should have a giant gas giant, and put rings around it, but obviously change the colours up a bit, If this is in the deep regions of space I would think a colder palette of colours


    Also my two cents is, that with this being the sequel, I think you should amp up the settings for your renders, Yes it may and probably will take longer to get scenes done, but you shouldnt be in a rush to get scenes done to keep the viewing public happy, Plus the extra time you take to add polish and up the graphics a bit for you scenes will pay off in the end.

    If a fly by of the Ship leaving spacedock on full spec takes 24hrs to render, then go for it. It will be worth it in the end. Plus while scenes are rendering, more time to flesh out your story, storyboards etc
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    hazend wrote: »
    At 8:16 I noticed that Kendra's legs weren't in the same spot as her shoes.

    You're right, I missed that before. It's a problem with conforming, easy to fix. Good catch!
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    I meant "are kendra and prentice married to each other?" but then i remembered it was the engineer (ronston?) who was interested in her in Specter, so never mind.
    Ahah! her last name is erickson, right?

    Move the "bureaucrat" line to thorntons office? i get the joke, but i dont think it works. ill bow to committee on this, tho. ;)

    Dr Timelord, the visuals as-is are meant to be placeholders. Once hes satisfied, he"ll then go all-out

    ETA: This site may be usefull
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    @homer: her last name was Erickson in Specter. Her last name is Ronston now :)

    Also, exactly right vis a vis the visuals.
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    @homer: her last name was Erickson in Specter. Her last name is Ronston now :)
    is she divorced or widowed? (so Ronston, the engineer - what did him in? :p)

    http://xcalpro.com/tng/download.php?list.20 might be usefull
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    Oh, he's still very much alive, that scene in Ten Forward I mentioned will tell us where he wound up.
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member

    A set of character morphs that'll likely come in handy, but I need hair props to go with them!
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    Oh, he's still very much alive, that scene in Ten Forward I mentioned will tell us where he wound up.
    Well, why does she keep his last name - or just post the damn scene already, screw the visuals :flippy:
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    A set of character morphs that'll likely come in handy, but I need hair props to go with them!
    you can PM mylochka through the Daz3d forums, or check the sharecg page, might find some useful items.

    check your email

    EDIT: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2645993#2645993 there are some decent m3/v3 hair props, a little tweaking should do the trick for your p4 people
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    Well, why does she keep his last name - or just post the damn scene already, screw the visuals :flippy:

    Patience :) I'm having to do some crosswork with Poser to get the crew positioned right. New crewmembers = new setup. It's just about done now, I plan to start work on the scene tomorrow. This should go quick.

    you can PM mylochka through the Daz3d forums, or check the sharecg page, might find some useful items.

    I'll try it!
    check your email

    I saw that earlier, I already downloaded and read it, I'm too tired to really look at it much tonight but I'll give it a onceover tomorrow and get back to you.
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    Edit:
    EDIT: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2645993#2645993 there are some decent m3/v3 hair props, a little tweaking should do the trick for your p4 people
  • HellsgateHellsgate0 Posts: 8Member
    Can't wait to see where this goes. Will there be other ships/additional characters (Klingon, etc.) joining the team to hunt down this new villain and Reyf's Romulan counterpart, in order to box him in from multiple sides?
  • BuckaroohawkBuckaroohawk2 Posts: 0Member
    I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, guys; it seems like you're having a lot of fun discussing the scenes / dialog / characters / etc. tnpir has shown us, but as I read all these posts I think you might be in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. We're still very early in the genesis of the story. Debating such small details will likely only bog things down. Let's see more about where tnpir's taking us before we start sweating the small stuff.

    Too many cooks can spoil the soup. Let's allow Chef tnpir to cook up more great stuff first.
  • gmd3dgmd3d250 DublinPosts: 132Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »


    I did, he gave me his Romulan bridge and corridor sets to work with. The man I really want to hear from is SeanR, who modeled an exquisite Romulan bridge that would be perfect for my needs. I sent him a PM here and through his site, but thus far no response.

    I would agree, SeanR bridge would be perfect for your production. mainly because they are finished and well textured and well made, and his experience shows.

    The Sets I built where for a specific design and with few camera angles needed. SeanR would provide a greater degree of camera and lighting opportunities.


    On a side note looking though the thread... I think your use of you own Voice for these first drafts :) is a good idea.

    you will (in my thinking) have a better feel of the characters before you get other Voice talents in, and they will see what emotions you are trying to convey for each character.

    well thatA’s my input.

    Good luck with the rest of the production
    “You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.”
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, guys; it seems like you're having a lot of fun discussing the scenes / dialog / characters / etc. tnpir has shown us, but as I read all these posts I think you might be in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees. We're still very early in the genesis of the story. Debating such small details will likely only bog things down. Let's see more about where tnpir's taking us before we start sweating the small stuff.

    Too many cooks can spoil the soup. Let's allow Chef tnpir to cook up more great stuff first.

    I've been trying to be patient with everyone, but Buckaroohawk is exactly right.
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    A tease for the next scene:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=87827&stc=1&d=1295891031

    There's a hint about the scene in this photo. Can you guess what it is?

    (By the way, in case anyone's curious, that IS Dr. Falwell to the left, I decided to bring her back for this film. She's actually going to play an important role later on. Won't Gates McFadden be envious?)
    87036.JPG
  • oldmangregoldmangreg198 Woodland Hills, CAPosts: 1,339Member
    That's a lot of females. Wonder what the captain is up to?
    Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
  • F9thCenturusF9thCenturus331 Posts: 5Member
    Why do I get the feeling the captain had the warp engines modified and calibrated so that at warp, their resonated sounds play Let's Get It On by Marvin Gaye.

    Sorry, couldn't resist. But in all seriousness, that ready room scene is SWEET!!!
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    oldmangreg wrote: »
    That's a lot of females.

    Actually now that you mention it, that's two hints in this photo.
    Wonder what the captain is up to?

    The captain? Nothing. The admiral? Also nothing.
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    A tease for the next scene:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=87827&stc=1&d=1295891031

    There's a hint about the scene in this photo. Can you guess what it is?
    Poser-Reassignment Surgery is not as easy as it sounds?
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    tnpir4002 wrote: »
    A tease for the next scene:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=87827&stc=1&d=1295891031

    There's a hint about the scene in this photo. Can you guess what it is?
    Poser-Reassignment Surgery is not as easy as it sounds?
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    @Homer: posting it once was enough :) No, that's not the hint.
    Notice Prentice has his back to Reyf and he doesn't look happy.
  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,283Member
    The captain is once again reminded that he left the Horta porn holonovel running on Holodeck Three? ;)
  • homerpalooza67homerpalooza67228 Posts: 1,891Member
    "The first meeting of the Womens Rotary Club is now in order. Captain, will you excuse us please?"
  • tnpir4002tnpir4002418 Posts: 1,277Member
    I can safely say, having read these so-called "guesses," that you are all sick people. That is all.
This discussion has been closed.