As for why she wasn't at her station, look at her stunned reaction. She's younger than most of the others, the sight of the Vaxis and knowing (after hearing Reyf say it) how many people were aboard the ship would've come as a huge shock. She was in Specter exactly twice--she was the one who was with then-Lieutenant Erickson in the infamous Ten Forward scene, and when Ronston calls Engineering during the chase scene, she's the one who answers "Aye, sir." She's a good engineer and not just full of herself, and there's an entire sequence immediately after Scene 8 showing exactly that. We'll have to wait to see that until the full version of Retribution though.
As for the survivors you mention...what survivors? It was explicitly stated that there were no survivors aboard the Vaxis.
3500 personnel? thats pretty big, even for a romulan ship. The Fitzy only carries about 1,200
I don't care how young she is, if she's been crewing with the Fitzy for 10 years, she's just as seasoned as the next officer. I dont buy it (and you can always move the engineering station to one of the funky side consoles)
there are no survivors now, but again, unless the attack was enough to destroy the ship outright (and it obviously wasn't destroyed) there have to be plenty of survivors out of a crew of 3,500. Unless the attackers burned out life support to kill off any of said survivors, beamed in away teams to capture or kill them, some crew members have to have been alive at the conclusion of the attack.
so what happened to them, and therefore, what damage should the salvage team be expecting?
Not to butt in but maybe the simplest explination is she was going to run the changes the admiral wanted to do by the capitan. She gets caught up in the warbird/cloak work and preforms the adjustments for the admiral because it's him and will inform the capitan later....
Not to butt in but maybe the simplest explination is she was going to run the changes the admiral wanted to do by the capitan. She gets caught up in the warbird/cloak work and preforms the adjustments for the admiral because it's him and will inform the capitan later....
She already did the adjustments, and the captain already OK'ed them in an earlier clip
Captain Jack Rice: Want to know how to survive a Romulan attack? Put damn seatbelts on your chairs.
@tnpir(In case you didn't see this on your video): I believe the standard cloaking effect will do. Since it is a Romulan warbird cloaking device. Voyager had some nice cloaking effects that also was reused in Nemesis, but you could also make up your own.
Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
I was just thinking wouldn't starfleet already have a cloaking device that was even better then the Romulans. In TNG The Pegasus they had a Phase Cloaking Device. I'm sure it was mothballed because of The Treaty of Algeron, but since Reyf is a higher up in Starfleet he could have access to those materials. I would think that it would be better then actually using an old school Romulan Cloaking device from a D'deridex-class.
I was just thinking wouldn't starfleet already have a cloaking device that was even better then the Romulans. In TNG The Pegasus they had a Phase Cloaking Device. I'm sure it was mothballed because of The Treaty of Algeron, but since Reyf is a higher up in Starfleet he could have access to those materials. I would think that it would be better then actually using an old school Romulan Cloaking device from a D'deridex-class.
True, but you have to consider the Romulans have better experience in this field. Starfleet would be playing catchup. The best they could do is borrow a cloaking device from the Klingons and go from there. Reyf would most likely have access, the question is is it in his character to actually consider that? He seems to be a by the book guy since Spector.
Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
True, but you have to consider the Romulans have better experience in this field. Starfleet would be playing catchup. The best they could do is borrow a cloaking device from the Klingons and go from there. Reyf would most likely have access, the question is is it in his character to actually consider that? He seems to be a by the book guy since Spector.
Yeah but he is keeping vital info from the rest of the crew so who knows what he and Starfleet Command are up too. Could be new Cloaking technology or a recipe for blood pie. Mmmmm blood pie.:)
Why no Starfleet cloaking device here? Because I said so!
Actually you have to remember two things: Starfleet isn't the type of organization that would want to be sneaking around (Section 31 notwithstanding) in the shadows. They'd want everything to be open and visible, and as such they wouldn't immediately leap to "cloak the ship." Remember also that they were originally to have been escorted by an allied Romulan ship equipped with its own cloaking device, which could be used to protect the Fitzgerald as we saw in the novel Star Trek: Federation. No matter how you cut it, having one on the Fitzgerald wouldn't make any sense.
Then when we find the remains of the Vaxis, all of a sudden the rules have changed. The ally upon whom we were depending for protection is gone, and so we have to make the most of a bad situation.
As for why there's a cloaking device left to salvage from the Vaxis, Ronston very clearly says "mostly" intact. It could very well be that whoever carried out the attack believed that what remained wouldn't be enough to do anyone any good.
tnpir: is there a link to the full-length version of "Specter Of The Past"? I'm updating my website (with your clip marked "Scenes 1 to 8",) and I forgot to remove/change the full-length movie link on my media page (which mentions you removed it from youtube.) Isn't there one at vimeo?
@Hellsgate: I direct you to The Wiki for links to the various different versions. There never was a "full version" available anywhere; I thought at one point YouTube could handle the three-hour clip, but apparently even that's too long for them.
It's worth remembering that the cloaking device was originally invented so that the Star Trek writers could rip off pay homage to great submarine movies such as The Enemy Below. Casting the Romulans in the role of the German U-Boat, and Enterprise in the role of the destroyer hunting it. You'll note that, after "Balance of Terror" we don't see the Romulans again until the second season.
Depending on who is writing any given episode, Enterprise in its various incarnations is depicted in the role of a WWII cruiser or one from the age of sail. Introducing cloaking devices to the Federation fleet introduces elements of submarine warfare throughout the series, and no one really wanted that, so they came up with the treaty that did what no government would logically do... they gave away a major advantage to a potential enemy. It made life easier for the writers.
Just wondering tnpir, on those wiki pages I'm not sure if I need any special symbols like <b> for bold or anything. I'm setting up an article, but the manual isn't clear on which symbols and what needs to be what typed.
Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
If you're working on the STEU, they have a "text appearance" bar above the text field, with the standard Bold, Underline, and Italicize controls. As you type, you can just do what you normally would when typing, CTRL+B for bold, CTRL+U for underline, and CTRL+I for italics.
Now unlike the previous ones, this one skips over some time between it and the previous clip. By the time of this clip, the Fitzgerald has cloaked and is safely an route to New Romulus at warp 9.
Once you watch this clip, all the questions have been asked, now it's up to you to fill in the blanks.
The mile markers from here:
the Fitzgerald is about to get "buzzed" by a pack of Romulan battlecruisers, but remains undetected. A short time later, Commander Mitchell realizes they only remained unseen because of the modification Reyf had her make earlier.
arrival at New Romulus, to discover a planet protected by a sizeable defense fleet; meeting with the proconsul
meeting with the proconsul and the learning of the evidence, showing a tiny silhouette launching two projectiles into the Romulan sun; energy readings are consistent with a Starfleet warp signature
a coup d'etat after the crew beams back to the ship, and the proconsul flees in a small scout ship and requests asylum aboard the Fitzgerald; the ship arriving without the Vaxis sewed the seeds of paranoia, and the proconsul suddenly found himself accused of collaborating with the people behind Romulus' destruction
If you want to know some of the plot twists planned, you can read this but YOU WILL BE SPOILED BIGTIME IF YOU DO:
the realization that no matter what the Fitzgerald did, the Romulans would press ahead with their plans, and revelation that the "true" intent of sending the Fitzgerald into Romulan space was to locate Drakus and the Rimward station, and neutralize him with whatever means are necessary in order to stop the invasion
the reveal that Drakus is really the "evil" Dr. Braiyon Garr, bent on revenge against the Federation for destroying his life, not once but twice--once when Thornton asked for his resignation, and again when Reyf was forced to fire on him, leading to nine months of agony
the revelation that the "Federation starship" that destroyed the Romulan sun was actually the ISS Voyager, impersonating a Starfleet vessel in order to create the very tensions Garr is now exploiting to insitagate war
the Fitzgerald destroying the Rimward Station, but seeing the ISS Voyager burst forth from the explosion and making a run for the former Beta Reticuli system, where the spatial tear from Specter still exists
Prentice using Garr's supernova weapon to cause the tear to invert and then cease to exist--taking Garr and the ISS Voyager with it. The Prime timeline is thus restored
@Hellsgate: I direct you to The Wiki for links to the various different versions. There never was a "full version" available anywhere; I thought at one point YouTube could handle the three-hour clip, but apparently even that's too long for them.
Much appreciated. Formally requesting permission to note this link on "New Worlds" from here on out.
@tnpir: Ok with this scene I take back what I said earlier about doing sneaky things wasn't in Reyf's character. It seems he's up to more than I thought. I didn't read the second spoiler, but I have a feeling that Garr was behind the destruction of the star that destroyed Romulus, with use of the ISS Voyager (which survived the destruction an the end of Spector), and he planted a sort of camera in space to frame the Federation. He then took that footage to the Romulans to trick them into unifying and preparing to invade the Federation, but that's my thinking.
I have also made some comments at the youtube videos (as ThyHolyKing; yes it really is me ), but since the main thinking is done here, here i am
I have been reading though your plot points, and it seems like an interesting story. But i already see something strange: Garr now has 2 voyagers? One is said to be destroyed with the sun, and the other comes forth from the station? Or was the original not destroyed?
Secondly: so far i see no point whatsoever in garr revealing himself before Rayf. Is he not giving the plot away? Wouldn't it be a bigger surprise to leave that bit out for a bigger reveal later? Or is the garr part of the plot also going to deepen, explaining the reveal?
Thirdly: how much did the federation now about Garr/Drakus and his practices before this mission, because Rayf's technological addons are becoming specific.
Forthly: why is section 31 not used for a mission like this? Seeing the info they already seems to be (at least for info gathering).
Other suggestions: it might be interesting to let a fight (not a fist-fight) erupt between the admiral and the captain about the true motive of the mission. The captain feeling betrayed by his former teacher for (basically) setting them up for a 'pointless' peace (-mission) and potential suicide mission. "Whats the point if we are going to have a war anyway" "If we can stop this, there would be no war." "How can we stop this? Even as we kill Garr/Drakus, the romulans still attack"; that sorta thing, in shouting.
Also another suggestion might be to have a good vs evil battle with different (time-)versions of Garr showing up, although i have too little info about the bigger plot to make more suggestions about this. Seeing that garr needs to survive this 'movie', in order to help his past self to follow Rayf, it might be interesting to see one Garr trying to help, while the evil is trying to hinder; without being to obvious (prevent destroying timelines and such).
Tnpir, i dont like Rayf sneaking around behind Prentice. its not his ship anymore, and a captain needs to know whats going on. I think Prentice should (respectfully, of course) insist that Reyf tell him whats going on.
Ok, so here are some pointer idea for your story I think may or may not work
- First of all, if 10+ hours have passed between the two preview clips, A quick external 'Captains Log' shot of the ship would be a great way to pass the time, Plus you haven't had one yet
- After watching your last preview clip, its great to see that that Reyf and Prentice are working together, but still a senior officer showed up on my ship and sealed off sections and told me " You have to trust me, and you'll know when you need to know" that should create a little... lets say tension. Reyf wants to do good and do stuff maybe off book for the good of the Federation.
Prentice always wants the same thing, but He should be quick to point out that the safety of his ship and his crew ALWAYS come first,
Prentice has already bent the rules by taking on board a stolen Romulan Cloaking device, how many more regulations will he let his former commanding officer bend or break before he steps up and says ' enough is enough'
It would be great to have maybe the two at ends with each other, for a little while at least, then make amends later
Now for some future story ideas I will put in Spoiler Tags
- After the Fitz remains undetected thanks to the modification, that would be a good time for Reyf and Prentice to have it out, privately in the ready room.
I'm pretty sure in the episode of TNG " The Pegasus" Picard says something along the lines of " I dont appreciate the keeping of secrets, and if the safety of this ship is compromised, I will go to the highest level of Command about this"
- When the crew arrive at new Romulus, You should show that the Romulans are very hostile, they could fire on the ship, but not to damage it, but just to get their point across that they will not be trifled with
- When the proconsul presents the evidence, they should probably say that two federation ships were detected, one before the Sun went supernova, and the second spotted just after the destruction of Romulus, While the second ship has not been found, presumed "destroyed" ( Spock's jellyfish) the first ship was scene warping out the system mere minutes before the star exploded
It would be a nice little nod to the events of ST XI
- You will need a traitor who is on the proconsul, someone to point the finger at the rest of them to say that they conspired with the federation to test a new weapon to be used in the subjugation of the Romlan people, and When the crew try to deny it, The traitor, could provide false evidence that the federation tried to make an Armageddon weapon before called " Project Genesis" , Obviously the Genesis planet would of been no secret, but the device that created it, would of been kept very classified, How would the Romulans get that sort of Information, Unless someone who stole top starfleet intelligence gave it to them
I also just thought of a nice plot twist that could make Garr a little more evil
Obviously Garr went back in time to change his past, and his younger self leads a different live, but what If that other Garr was killed quite early on after Evil Garr travlled back in time, maybe during the Dominion War or during the borg invasion in ST FC?
Garr going back in time to try and get his younger self to lead a different life only to see him die, that would drive any person insane
@Dr Timelord:
I dont think having them get in each others face is good. Rayf has been bradleys mentor, and he trusts his former CO. but as the current Captain, he's gotta take charge, and convince the admiral to open up. As the Captain of the Fitzy, Prentice automatically "needs to know" if it involves his ship, period
Actually, in this movie anyone can die, because this is the sequel to another film in which Garr actually did travel back in time. That's what the prologue sequence is, a recap of the events of that movie. If you haven't seen it, the film is titled Star Trek: Specter and is available for viewing on Vimeo, check out The Wiki for a plot synopsis and links to The Ultimate Edition. Just a headsup, that film has a different writing style and overall tone than Retribution does. Let us know what you think!
You and Dr-Timelord both have some awesome ideas--I'm going to start putting together the rest of the plotline today, we'll see what we can come up with!
Posts
3500 personnel? thats pretty big, even for a romulan ship. The Fitzy only carries about 1,200
I don't care how young she is, if she's been crewing with the Fitzy for 10 years, she's just as seasoned as the next officer. I dont buy it (and you can always move the engineering station to one of the funky side consoles)
there are no survivors now, but again, unless the attack was enough to destroy the ship outright (and it obviously wasn't destroyed) there have to be plenty of survivors out of a crew of 3,500. Unless the attackers burned out life support to kill off any of said survivors, beamed in away teams to capture or kill them, some crew members have to have been alive at the conclusion of the attack.
so what happened to them, and therefore, what damage should the salvage team be expecting?
Not to butt in but maybe the simplest explination is she was going to run the changes the admiral wanted to do by the capitan. She gets caught up in the warbird/cloak work and preforms the adjustments for the admiral because it's him and will inform the capitan later....
She already did the adjustments, and the captain already OK'ed them in an earlier clip
Captain Jack Rice: Want to know how to survive a Romulan attack? Put damn seatbelts on your chairs.
@tnpir(In case you didn't see this on your video): I believe the standard cloaking effect will do. Since it is a Romulan warbird cloaking device. Voyager had some nice cloaking effects that also was reused in Nemesis, but you could also make up your own.
True, but you have to consider the Romulans have better experience in this field. Starfleet would be playing catchup. The best they could do is borrow a cloaking device from the Klingons and go from there. Reyf would most likely have access, the question is is it in his character to actually consider that? He seems to be a by the book guy since Spector.
Yeah but he is keeping vital info from the rest of the crew so who knows what he and Starfleet Command are up too. Could be new Cloaking technology or a recipe for blood pie. Mmmmm blood pie.:)
Actually you have to remember two things: Starfleet isn't the type of organization that would want to be sneaking around (Section 31 notwithstanding) in the shadows. They'd want everything to be open and visible, and as such they wouldn't immediately leap to "cloak the ship." Remember also that they were originally to have been escorted by an allied Romulan ship equipped with its own cloaking device, which could be used to protect the Fitzgerald as we saw in the novel Star Trek: Federation. No matter how you cut it, having one on the Fitzgerald wouldn't make any sense.
Then when we find the remains of the Vaxis, all of a sudden the rules have changed. The ally upon whom we were depending for protection is gone, and so we have to make the most of a bad situation.
As for why there's a cloaking device left to salvage from the Vaxis, Ronston very clearly says "mostly" intact. It could very well be that whoever carried out the attack believed that what remained wouldn't be enough to do anyone any good.
Depending on who is writing any given episode, Enterprise in its various incarnations is depicted in the role of a WWII cruiser or one from the age of sail. Introducing cloaking devices to the Federation fleet introduces elements of submarine warfare throughout the series, and no one really wanted that, so they came up with the treaty that did what no government would logically do... they gave away a major advantage to a potential enemy. It made life easier for the writers.
Yes, is there any special symbols needed, that are exclusive to Wiki, or do we just set it up with standard HTML tags?
Now unlike the previous ones, this one skips over some time between it and the previous clip. By the time of this clip, the Fitzgerald has cloaked and is safely an route to New Romulus at warp 9.
The mile markers from here:
If you want to know some of the plot twists planned, you can read this but YOU WILL BE SPOILED BIGTIME IF YOU DO:
Much appreciated. Formally requesting permission to note this link on "New Worlds" from here on out.
lol
@tnpir: Ok with this scene I take back what I said earlier about doing sneaky things wasn't in Reyf's character. It seems he's up to more than I thought. I didn't read the second spoiler, but I have a feeling that Garr was behind the destruction of the star that destroyed Romulus, with use of the ISS Voyager (which survived the destruction an the end of Spector), and he planted a sort of camera in space to frame the Federation. He then took that footage to the Romulans to trick them into unifying and preparing to invade the Federation, but that's my thinking.
@Hellsgate: You have permission to link this as well.
http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Renegade
-EDIT-
I just read the second spoiler. Damn I perceptive.
I have been reading though your plot points, and it seems like an interesting story. But i already see something strange: Garr now has 2 voyagers? One is said to be destroyed with the sun, and the other comes forth from the station? Or was the original not destroyed?
Secondly: so far i see no point whatsoever in garr revealing himself before Rayf. Is he not giving the plot away? Wouldn't it be a bigger surprise to leave that bit out for a bigger reveal later? Or is the garr part of the plot also going to deepen, explaining the reveal?
Thirdly: how much did the federation now about Garr/Drakus and his practices before this mission, because Rayf's technological addons are becoming specific.
Forthly: why is section 31 not used for a mission like this? Seeing the info they already seems to be (at least for info gathering).
Other suggestions: it might be interesting to let a fight (not a fist-fight) erupt between the admiral and the captain about the true motive of the mission. The captain feeling betrayed by his former teacher for (basically) setting them up for a 'pointless' peace (-mission) and potential suicide mission. "Whats the point if we are going to have a war anyway" "If we can stop this, there would be no war." "How can we stop this? Even as we kill Garr/Drakus, the romulans still attack"; that sorta thing, in shouting.
Also another suggestion might be to have a good vs evil battle with different (time-)versions of Garr showing up, although i have too little info about the bigger plot to make more suggestions about this. Seeing that garr needs to survive this 'movie', in order to help his past self to follow Rayf, it might be interesting to see one Garr trying to help, while the evil is trying to hinder; without being to obvious (prevent destroying timelines and such).
- First of all, if 10+ hours have passed between the two preview clips, A quick external 'Captains Log' shot of the ship would be a great way to pass the time, Plus you haven't had one yet
- After watching your last preview clip, its great to see that that Reyf and Prentice are working together, but still a senior officer showed up on my ship and sealed off sections and told me " You have to trust me, and you'll know when you need to know" that should create a little... lets say tension. Reyf wants to do good and do stuff maybe off book for the good of the Federation.
Prentice always wants the same thing, but He should be quick to point out that the safety of his ship and his crew ALWAYS come first,
Prentice has already bent the rules by taking on board a stolen Romulan Cloaking device, how many more regulations will he let his former commanding officer bend or break before he steps up and says ' enough is enough'
It would be great to have maybe the two at ends with each other, for a little while at least, then make amends later
Now for some future story ideas I will put in Spoiler Tags
- After the Fitz remains undetected thanks to the modification, that would be a good time for Reyf and Prentice to have it out, privately in the ready room.
I'm pretty sure in the episode of TNG " The Pegasus" Picard says something along the lines of " I dont appreciate the keeping of secrets, and if the safety of this ship is compromised, I will go to the highest level of Command about this"
- When the crew arrive at new Romulus, You should show that the Romulans are very hostile, they could fire on the ship, but not to damage it, but just to get their point across that they will not be trifled with
- When the proconsul presents the evidence, they should probably say that two federation ships were detected, one before the Sun went supernova, and the second spotted just after the destruction of Romulus, While the second ship has not been found, presumed "destroyed" ( Spock's jellyfish) the first ship was scene warping out the system mere minutes before the star exploded
It would be a nice little nod to the events of ST XI
- You will need a traitor who is on the proconsul, someone to point the finger at the rest of them to say that they conspired with the federation to test a new weapon to be used in the subjugation of the Romlan people, and When the crew try to deny it, The traitor, could provide false evidence that the federation tried to make an Armageddon weapon before called " Project Genesis" , Obviously the Genesis planet would of been no secret, but the device that created it, would of been kept very classified, How would the Romulans get that sort of Information, Unless someone who stole top starfleet intelligence gave it to them
I also just thought of a nice plot twist that could make Garr a little more evil
Garr going back in time to try and get his younger self to lead a different life only to see him die, that would drive any person insane
I dont think having them get in each others face is good. Rayf has been bradleys mentor, and he trusts his former CO. but as the current Captain, he's gotta take charge, and convince the admiral to open up. As the Captain of the Fitzy, Prentice automatically "needs to know" if it involves his ship, period
Actually, in this movie anyone can die, because this is the sequel to another film in which Garr actually did travel back in time. That's what the prologue sequence is, a recap of the events of that movie. If you haven't seen it, the film is titled Star Trek: Specter and is available for viewing on Vimeo, check out The Wiki for a plot synopsis and links to The Ultimate Edition. Just a headsup, that film has a different writing style and overall tone than Retribution does. Let us know what you think!
You and Dr-Timelord both have some awesome ideas--I'm going to start putting together the rest of the plotline today, we'll see what we can come up with!