ok now that Im done with sukiyaki (man always eat too much when I have that.) and cleaned the mess in the living room. It is done on a burner with the pot at the table, well done properly.
ANYHOW, lighty things on the butt reg.
First I thought I didn't like your bulky secondary hull. But I have to admit - the more I see of your ship the more I realize how perfect your design is. I just love your work! (And the speed of your updates!) Keep on going, it's a wonderful ship!!!
Something to bring to head a question; should I take the effort to make the windows all across the ship asymmetrical? IE eg the saucer the left side being different from the right, or should I retain this as something I should do in a few areas only to avoid the complexity and issues of possibly adding symmetrical detail later on?
I ask this since I am eh for a lack of anything else cropping up, or better to do on this model, I am laying out windows atm.
Each day we draw closer to the end.
XRaiderV1.7226I have absolutely no ideaPosts: 1,074Member
well uh the windows would be asymmetrical. This means the window son the right side of the ship would not match the left side 100%.
What this means in modeling is that Id have to cut twice as many windows and model just as many room boxes. It also means if I need to do any work that is symmetrical Id have to do it twice or bodge things such as detaching faces and then re attaching them when I was done with it. IE makes it harder to do oops I need some detail here things after I do the windows.
Really it is not a method, I would cut the windows the same as I always do. Short end of it just means more work.
See image for example.
not all are noted but it should be enough to get the idea.
A strange fungus begins to grow on the hull.
This area is maybe 3.5 decks high but given it is many rooms deep I added a additional row of windows. KIM though these are not all getting cut in! HAH this is just early stage work where I run a mess of these objects down a spline I pulled off the hull geo. This is one reason I attempt to keep poly flow inline with the hull and square to the world. I could probably fit in another row at the top but I want to keep the window count fairly light.
I'd keep the windows mostly symmetrical with only a few exceptions for things like important conference suites et cetera, that way you're only giving yourself a little bit more work than otherwise, and the coverage looks more organised. I've found that complete asymmetry often gives a very patchy look to the hull.
I have decided to do some areas in this manner and key structures to give a feeling of.
For now here is a example of some cut in windows, just gotta inset, bevel, extrude, extrude, then bevel, and bevel with no height, then merge merge etc to create the interior boxes and then I will have gots winders.
this thing is becoming a beast to render. Lots of strumming of fingers on ze desk. . .
Each day we draw closer to the end.
XRaiderV1.7226I have absolutely no ideaPosts: 1,074Member
Well, damn this is taking forever. I started doing my usual airtight boxes where I extrude them off the inner frame of the window holes. This sorta controls bleed and other crap from interior lighting etc. But it is taking forever so I went and extruded simple room boxes off the "glass" objects. In the room box render only the outer right side rooms are the airtight type. The others are the cheapo ones that took only a min or so. As you can see the inner nipple of the window frame has overlaps etc all over. I do not like this but it is far easier to deal with than the work for those 6 rooms that are properly airtight.
Ok, here we go I finished off that one row. Then rendered it out without any main lights just the ambient skylight so that it better shows the rooms. With the window box I normally set I can "turn" lights on and off sorta by adding lum materials (glows that will light things in a ambient way) Issue is if it is too strong or heavy even interior self ilum itll bleed through the hull due to FG. In animation this gets worse. NOW the open topped boxes the fast cheap ones tend to leak more. You could see this in some of the MUGI renders early on when I was still experimenting with lum mats.
So I dunno the only way to verify is to do a mess of animation renders to solidify if the open box style is a mistake or not, BUT the issue is those renders would likely eat up a better part of 3 to 4 days where those closed windows would take hours.
You could always bake the lighting of the rooms, use that as a self illum map, but turn off the "affect FG" option of the lum mat, or will that still bleed through due to FG interpolating between point sinside and outside the room?
If you're bored of FG, you could always take a look at Irradiance Particles + Importons. Need a script thingy to set them up as it's not entirely production ready yet, so it's not integrated into the max interface yet, but they can produce some very nice bouncing, and I haven't observed it leaking.
That is what I am doing, anything over the standard diffuse setting IE self ilum will produce some sort of light. Be those self ilum additional colour etc. I am however using lum mats to kick up the light for specific rooms too.
And no, I hate and loath scripts and plugins, if it cannot be done in stock max I do not do it. Had to many issues of crapped up plugs screwing up files or hours of work, or opening of files to get the annoying missing dll bullcrap.
I will have to look at the ignore FG but then a loose the whole purpose of the set up. ATM I am having no issues unlike in other scenes. I have adjusted FG and all that so maybe itll deal with it for now. So all I really have to consider is the ugly overlapping faces under the saucer that no one will see and the semi lame room layout, since it the lazy way is building the boxes off the window objects.
Anyhow here is a older render form earlier today, been slacking on this prj the last few days. Anyhow it shows where I left them for now. Also a image showing where I plan to cut crap into the forward hull thingy. Well less plan and more done, just finishing the final clean up on the last 8 or 9 windows of spare verts and the usual max stupidity when triangulating things or the stupid edges added when collapsing a boolean.
Ok, those windows are done to a degree, need to adjust the rooms and add in the extensions etc. I also really need to fix up that registry lighting job and add in some light buckets. And yeah those larger windows I am not happy with the angle of them to the vertical bits is a bit ehhh but if I were to adjust them to flow with the hull panels they would be all funk inside, IE each one would be at a higher position on the wall, well ceiling at this stage.
Also heads up going to be clearing attachments soon. up to 25mb atm. Some of that is a screw up I see on may parts uploaded a few oversized images due to not readjusting my compression settings.
Starting in on the bridge super, but already Im considering a redo. . . . . . it seems I cur them a bit too tall I really did not want them that far down the hull. They appear more like tall slits vs windows. Dunno I think I will think on it. Bout an hours work since these curved areas are a real PITA due to all the converging edges and whatnot. Not to mention all the smoothing issues that these areas cause (reason I oft avoid this sort of window)
One thing on the debate is if I want to add skylight like windows on the flat hull surface just before the saucer rim? I do plan at least 3 rows of windows on that last rim of saucer.
I also need to remember to go in and change out all the lums on the "rooms" so I can later on adjust the brightness etc for whatever scene is set up. ATM they share the marker lights and a few other objects material. And that just wont work for later on lol. Probably should do it now.
Decided to go do something else. Cut in windows on that deck, sorta a bit too low but bah. I think I might toss a few further down that deck near the shuttle bay. BUT I think it is likely time for a break from this thing for a few days.
Each day we draw closer to the end.
XRaiderV1.7226I have absolutely no ideaPosts: 1,074Member
Spinning, spinning, spinning, (in the viewport)as I decide where the hell it was that I left off on this and where to start back up. . . . .
AO render to give an idea where it sits as a object sans materials.
I am still on the fence if I should add skylight like windows on the flat of the saucer just below the upper set of phasers.
I think after seeing a bit of this one AO pass that maybe I should look at working in the sensor pits into the saucer rim. I am going to try like hell to finish this up before getting distracted with something else. Got some non trek stuff I have been itching to get on and also that whole "lost" era trek is picking me like a scab. (ENT b~ENT c)
To note I do have a few yuckie, panel cuts that look ugly with windows installed, issues of a non linear curve to the saucer. Not sure if I can correct these now, but I will look into it in a bit. If it involves major redos then I will likely leave it. Oh render 2 that sensor area underneath needs work, does not BLEND well.
Yuck site compressed it like mad. Uh maybe I shoulda done these as separate images. good greif it even resized it!
Beginnings of the sensor pit. Thinking of these bits on the top and bottom with a pit in the middle. Reality I should have made the inset for this pit much smaller. Oh well.
Posts
ANYHOW, lighty things on the butt reg.
Sukiyaki is delicious! IAâm not japanese, but my wife is nissei. And she cooks very well!.
I ask this since I am eh for a lack of anything else cropping up, or better to do on this model, I am laying out windows atm.
What this means in modeling is that Id have to cut twice as many windows and model just as many room boxes. It also means if I need to do any work that is symmetrical Id have to do it twice or bodge things such as detaching faces and then re attaching them when I was done with it. IE makes it harder to do oops I need some detail here things after I do the windows.
Really it is not a method, I would cut the windows the same as I always do. Short end of it just means more work.
See image for example.
not all are noted but it should be enough to get the idea.
This area is maybe 3.5 decks high but given it is many rooms deep I added a additional row of windows. KIM though these are not all getting cut in! HAH this is just early stage work where I run a mess of these objects down a spline I pulled off the hull geo. This is one reason I attempt to keep poly flow inline with the hull and square to the world. I could probably fit in another row at the top but I want to keep the window count fairly light.
For now here is a example of some cut in windows, just gotta inset, bevel, extrude, extrude, then bevel, and bevel with no height, then merge merge etc to create the interior boxes and then I will have gots winders.
this thing is becoming a beast to render. Lots of strumming of fingers on ze desk. . .
SO I dunno.
So I dunno the only way to verify is to do a mess of animation renders to solidify if the open box style is a mistake or not, BUT the issue is those renders would likely eat up a better part of 3 to 4 days where those closed windows would take hours.
You could always bake the lighting of the rooms, use that as a self illum map, but turn off the "affect FG" option of the lum mat, or will that still bleed through due to FG interpolating between point sinside and outside the room?
If you're bored of FG, you could always take a look at Irradiance Particles + Importons. Need a script thingy to set them up as it's not entirely production ready yet, so it's not integrated into the max interface yet, but they can produce some very nice bouncing, and I haven't observed it leaking.
And no, I hate and loath scripts and plugins, if it cannot be done in stock max I do not do it. Had to many issues of crapped up plugs screwing up files or hours of work, or opening of files to get the annoying missing dll bullcrap.
I will have to look at the ignore FG but then a loose the whole purpose of the set up. ATM I am having no issues unlike in other scenes. I have adjusted FG and all that so maybe itll deal with it for now. So all I really have to consider is the ugly overlapping faces under the saucer that no one will see and the semi lame room layout, since it the lazy way is building the boxes off the window objects.
Anyhow here is a older render form earlier today, been slacking on this prj the last few days. Anyhow it shows where I left them for now. Also a image showing where I plan to cut crap into the forward hull thingy. Well less plan and more done, just finishing the final clean up on the last 8 or 9 windows of spare verts and the usual max stupidity when triangulating things or the stupid edges added when collapsing a boolean.
Also heads up going to be clearing attachments soon. up to 25mb atm. Some of that is a screw up I see on may parts uploaded a few oversized images due to not readjusting my compression settings.
One thing on the debate is if I want to add skylight like windows on the flat hull surface just before the saucer rim? I do plan at least 3 rows of windows on that last rim of saucer.
I also need to remember to go in and change out all the lums on the "rooms" so I can later on adjust the brightness etc for whatever scene is set up. ATM they share the marker lights and a few other objects material. And that just wont work for later on lol. Probably should do it now.
AO render to give an idea where it sits as a object sans materials.
I am still on the fence if I should add skylight like windows on the flat of the saucer just below the upper set of phasers.
I think after seeing a bit of this one AO pass that maybe I should look at working in the sensor pits into the saucer rim. I am going to try like hell to finish this up before getting distracted with something else. Got some non trek stuff I have been itching to get on and also that whole "lost" era trek is picking me like a scab. (ENT b~ENT c)
To note I do have a few yuckie, panel cuts that look ugly with windows installed, issues of a non linear curve to the saucer. Not sure if I can correct these now, but I will look into it in a bit. If it involves major redos then I will likely leave it. Oh render 2 that sensor area underneath needs work, does not BLEND well.
Yuck site compressed it like mad. Uh maybe I shoulda done these as separate images. good greif it even resized it!