Don't beat yourself up. If you didn't make mistakes, you wouldn't be human.
All you really did was make me question if what I thought I knew was true. I'd always heard the ship was called Yorktown first, but I'd never actually researched it. I didn't even know that 1973 interview was on YouTube until I searched the web for naming the Enterprise. I found the link to the EAS article (a site I have bookmarked, by the way) by looking at background information on the USS Yorktown on Memory Alpha. I'd never actually read Roddenberry's original pitch proposal until I looked at that, but I have now. So, if all you did was get me to do some reading, that's not a bad thing.
On a side note, having now read his pitch to NBC, I realize how good of a thing it is that he brought in some other creative minds. Some of his story ideas did get made into episodes, though many with some reworks, but a lot didn't. Some of the looked really bad, which his probably why they were scrapped. It is interesting to note that the episode "Charlie X" seems to be an idea that originated with Roddenberry.
As for the naming thing, Roddenberry was a military man who flew bombers in WWII. It makes sense that he would have been a fan of military things, particularly anything involving aviation. I do wonder why he changed aircraft carrier names, though. Yorktown is a strong name not only in the US Navy, but because the Battle of Yorktown was the final major land battle of the US Revolutionary War. So, that's definitely a very patriotic name. But, Enterprise is a strong name too. The recently decommissioned Enterprise class USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is still the longest US Navy ship ever built. She even beat the starship at a whopping 342m after her refit. The next aircraft carrier Enterprise is set to be commissioned in 4 years.
I dunno. I thought I heard the same story. In fact I think I heard it at a convention in a question answer session with Majel Barret. I don't want to accuse her of screwing up the story, it is just as likely that I twisted it around in my head in the many years since.
Maybe Endeavour was a name he toyed with between Yorktown and Enterprise. I only know his original pitch had the name Yorktown. I mean, he changed the captain's name twice between his original pitch and the show going to series. First it was Robert April, then it was Christopher Pike and then James T. Kirk. Of course, they ran with it and made all three canon, but they were all essentially names for the same character. He might have changed the ship from Yorktown to Endeavour to Enterprise.
Of course, there's also that thing where you're talking about peoples' memories. If you ask three different people who witnessed the same thing what happened, you'll get three different versions. Nobody is necessarily lying, they're just going by what their memory is telling them. Gene said in that interview that he picked Enterprise due to his love of the Navy and that carrier in general, but he also didn't mention that he originally named the ship Yortown, which is also a carrier. Perhaps between 1964 and 1965, he decided to go with Endeavor but the studio wanted Enterprise. Thinking back on that in 1973, he could have been recollecting his original reason for picking Yorktown. I mean, that's a 9 year span between 1964 and 1973. He mentioned the Battle of Midway, but both carriers played a big part in that battle. It was a major battle that a lot of ships and airplanes participated in. In fact, the Yorktown was lost in that battle.
So, yeah, it's not like I'm saying anybody's story is wrong. We're talking about something that happened 60 years ago. I was just curious what the source of that story was, as I'd never heard it. But then, I'm sure there's lots of BTS stuff that I've never heard about Star Trek. One thing I know for certain is that they made up a lot of stuff as they went.
Yep - per "The Making of Star Trek" by 'Gene Whitfield' (alias) - the original name was to be Yorktown and there was quite a list of possible names for ships in the class.
Enterprise was the final choice before The Cage was filmed, along with Captain Pike being the first filmed Captain (April never appearing on screen until the animated series).
Yep - per "The Making of Star Trek" by 'Gene Whitfield' (alias) - the original name was to be Yorktown and there was quite a list of possible names for ships in the class.
Enterprise was the final choice before The Cage was filmed, along with Captain Pike being the first filmed Captain (April never appearing on screen until the animated series).
Yeah, Commodore Robert April and his wife, Sarah. Robert was voiced by James Doohan and Sarah by Nichelle Nichols.
One thing that's gotten a massive retcon over the years is the implication, and even flat out statement that warp drive was a new invention. I was watching "The Cage" again last night, and Lt. Tyler (navigator) implies that warp drive is new, because the "survivors" of the SS Columbia would be surprised by how fast that they can get home. Then, in the episode of TAS that you're talking about, "The Counter-Clock Incident," which is the final episode of TAS, Sarah April talks about being a doctor on one of the first ships with warp drive. Of course, there's been a debate for years about whether or not TAS is canon (who cares) but Tyler's comment was included in "The Menagerie."
The "Time Barrier" thing is always a bit uncertain... Are they really new? Or, is this just a much better warp drive than before? I'm leaning towards the later since there's no way a sublight ship was going to reach Talos IV in anyone's lifetime.
It seems like my post has started some debate. And even though I'm a bit cautious now to add something to it I really enjoy reading you all debating this.
One thing that's gotten a massive retcon over the years is the implication, and even flat out statement that warp drive was a new invention. I was watching "The Cage" again last night, and Lt. Tyler (navigator) implies that warp drive is new, because the "survivors" of the SS Columbia would be surprised by how fast that they can get home. Then, in the episode of TAS that you're talking about, "The Counter-Clock Incident," which is the final episode of TAS, Sarah April talks about being a doctor on one of the first ships with warp drive. Of course, there's been a debate for years about whether or not TAS is canon (who cares) but Tyler's comment was included in "The Menagerie."
The "Time Barrier" thing is always a bit uncertain... Are they really new? Or, is this just a much better warp drive than before? I'm leaning towards the later since there's no way a sublight ship was going to reach Talos IV in anyone's lifetime.
I mean the Phoenix being the first Warp Ship is canon now. Just another one of those things they needed two decades and several writing teams for to come up with a consistent version, I guess.
It's fairly...semi-clear from some dialog that some aspect of "Impulse Engines" appear to allow limited FTL.
Some dialog in the original show also indicates that there are a number of different classes of Star Drives (class 4 is mentioned specifically) so, we can assume that there are older methods and versions of FTL before the type used by the Enterprise herself.
Everything in the 1960's series was very much in flux as Gene Roddenberry hadn't written it all down beforehand.
The "Time Barrier" thing is always a bit uncertain... Are they really new? Or, is this just a much better warp drive than before? I'm leaning towards the later since there's no way a sublight ship was going to reach Talos IV in anyone's lifetime.
Yeah, that one is uncertain. I mean, Pike says "Our time warp, factor 7." Yet, later use of "Time warp" indicated time travel. So, it definitely could indicate something different as far as means of FTL propulsion. But then, there's also Zefram Cochrane from the TOS episode "Metamorphosis." In that episode, it was flat out stated that he invented warp drive. It's stated that he was on that planet with "The Companion" for 150 years, and that he left Alpha Centauri as an old, dying man. So, that actually all fits with him inventing warp drive back in the 2060s, as was shown in "First Contact." So, that actually makes Sarah April's comment a continuity error with that episode, as it's unrealistic to think that Starfleet would have taken that long to equip ships with warp drive. So, I think Tyler's comment about the "Time Barrier" would mean simply that the ships were faster and that Sarah April's comment can be ignored.
But, like you said, things were in flux back then.
So, that actually makes Sarah April's comment a continuity error with that episode, as it's unrealistic to think that Starfleet would have taken that long to equip ships with warp drive. So, I think Tyler's comment about the "Time Barrier" would mean simply that the ships were faster and that Sarah April's comment can be ignored.
Of course Sarah April is in a high age in this Episode. It's been heard of that old people confuse things from time to time.
The comment in the "Where No Man Has Gone Before" concerning the old S.S. Valiant trying to cross the Galactic Barrier "KIRK: The old impulse engines weren't strong enough." makes you wonder if Impulse is the earlier form of FTL.
This would also fit with "Balance Of Terror" where the Romulan ship was supposed to be powered (or propelled?) by simple Impulse.
Of course Sarah April is in a high age in this Episode. It's been heard of that old people confuse things from time to time.
Yeah, but I was watching that episode again last night and there's no mention of deteriorating mental capabilities for either her or Robert. I think it's just one of those things where the writer didn't check with things that had come before. It's not like that's an isolated incident.
Posts
All you really did was make me question if what I thought I knew was true.
On a side note, having now read his pitch to NBC, I realize how good of a thing it is that he brought in some other creative minds. Some of his story ideas did get made into episodes, though many with some reworks, but a lot didn't. Some of the looked really bad, which his probably why they were scrapped. It is interesting to note that the episode "Charlie X" seems to be an idea that originated with Roddenberry.
As for the naming thing, Roddenberry was a military man who flew bombers in WWII. It makes sense that he would have been a fan of military things, particularly anything involving aviation. I do wonder why he changed aircraft carrier names, though. Yorktown is a strong name not only in the US Navy, but because the Battle of Yorktown was the final major land battle of the US Revolutionary War. So, that's definitely a very patriotic name. But, Enterprise is a strong name too. The recently decommissioned Enterprise class USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is still the longest US Navy ship ever built. She even beat the starship at a whopping 342m after her refit. The next aircraft carrier Enterprise is set to be commissioned in 4 years.
Of course, there's also that thing where you're talking about peoples' memories. If you ask three different people who witnessed the same thing what happened, you'll get three different versions. Nobody is necessarily lying, they're just going by what their memory is telling them. Gene said in that interview that he picked Enterprise due to his love of the Navy and that carrier in general, but he also didn't mention that he originally named the ship Yortown, which is also a carrier. Perhaps between 1964 and 1965, he decided to go with Endeavor but the studio wanted Enterprise. Thinking back on that in 1973, he could have been recollecting his original reason for picking Yorktown. I mean, that's a 9 year span between 1964 and 1973. He mentioned the Battle of Midway, but both carriers played a big part in that battle. It was a major battle that a lot of ships and airplanes participated in. In fact, the Yorktown was lost in that battle.
So, yeah, it's not like I'm saying anybody's story is wrong. We're talking about something that happened 60 years ago. I was just curious what the source of that story was, as I'd never heard it. But then, I'm sure there's lots of BTS stuff that I've never heard about Star Trek. One thing I know for certain is that they made up a lot of stuff as they went.
Enterprise was the final choice before The Cage was filmed, along with Captain Pike being the first filmed Captain (April never appearing on screen until the animated series).
Yeah, Commodore Robert April and his wife, Sarah. Robert was voiced by James Doohan and Sarah by Nichelle Nichols.
One thing that's gotten a massive retcon over the years is the implication, and even flat out statement that warp drive was a new invention. I was watching "The Cage" again last night, and Lt. Tyler (navigator) implies that warp drive is new, because the "survivors" of the SS Columbia would be surprised by how fast that they can get home. Then, in the episode of TAS that you're talking about, "The Counter-Clock Incident," which is the final episode of TAS, Sarah April talks about being a doctor on one of the first ships with warp drive. Of course, there's been a debate for years about whether or not TAS is canon (who cares) but Tyler's comment was included in "The Menagerie."
I mean the Phoenix being the first Warp Ship is canon now. Just another one of those things they needed two decades and several writing teams for to come up with a consistent version, I guess.
Some dialog in the original show also indicates that there are a number of different classes of Star Drives (class 4 is mentioned specifically) so, we can assume that there are older methods and versions of FTL before the type used by the Enterprise herself.
Everything in the 1960's series was very much in flux as Gene Roddenberry hadn't written it all down beforehand.
Yeah, that one is uncertain. I mean, Pike says "Our time warp, factor 7." Yet, later use of "Time warp" indicated time travel. So, it definitely could indicate something different as far as means of FTL propulsion. But then, there's also Zefram Cochrane from the TOS episode "Metamorphosis." In that episode, it was flat out stated that he invented warp drive. It's stated that he was on that planet with "The Companion" for 150 years, and that he left Alpha Centauri as an old, dying man. So, that actually all fits with him inventing warp drive back in the 2060s, as was shown in "First Contact." So, that actually makes Sarah April's comment a continuity error with that episode, as it's unrealistic to think that Starfleet would have taken that long to equip ships with warp drive. So, I think Tyler's comment about the "Time Barrier" would mean simply that the ships were faster and that Sarah April's comment can be ignored.
But, like you said, things were in flux back then.
Of course Sarah April is in a high age in this Episode. It's been heard of that old people confuse things from time to time.
This would also fit with "Balance Of Terror" where the Romulan ship was supposed to be powered (or propelled?) by simple Impulse.
Yeah, but I was watching that episode again last night and there's no mention of deteriorating mental capabilities for either her or Robert. I think it's just one of those things where the writer didn't check with things that had come before. It's not like that's an isolated incident.