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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-

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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Readdressing the UVWs around the deflector housing. Mostly the EX copper ring that was just a bunch of rusty gunk on the studio model.
    tos-connie-vray-130.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-131.jpg
    Added in some stuff behind the strut grills but I think Probably sticking some real geo behind there might work better for some angles as the walls still catch light and shows it is just a box.
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  • srspicersrspicer288 Posts: 250Member
    I have a question about the spot lights.
    When you add in those lights to illuminate the livery, is that a detail you 'physically draw' or do you use a spot light tool of some kind to light up the livery. I really like how the Miranda saucer top looks with the spot lights. It looks very realistic, just curious. Thanks in advance!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited December 2021 #2554
    It is light gizmos in the 3d app not "illumination maps" I am guessing your thinking of game assets where they bake in the ship lighting. Maybe my comments about projection maps has misled you? When I refer to maps in projection or in lights it kinda is like a gel film you put over say a torch or pen light. But it is a image or a shader creating a "image" the light sorta shines through. SO like when you drive a car up to a wall to align your headlamps you can see all the projects hotspots etc from the cars elements on the wall not just a even light that is what a projection map is for. Also creates fringing and color aberrations on the edge of the spot of light.

    Here is a viewport image of the ones on the main registry. Vray gizmos usually are not very visual so I selected them so it shows the projection cone. PNG as the jpg was the same size lol

    tos-connie-vray-133.png
    Not scene lit as vray lights = black scene as the viewport never represents what the scene will be. Would be nice if they could properly set this up so you can at least have a rough idea of what things will look like without having to render after every slight change.

    About the image: I had to set up 2 lights for this because the vray lights would cause massive blow out of the hull if I used one and set the directional wide enough to mimic what they do for registry lighting. I tried what I had for the old lighting for the TOS Miranda, but it just did not look that great.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    LoopholepubliusrRory1707BolianAdmiralStarCruisersrspicer
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Secondary hull and neck, though I do notice at 4k some of it isn't showing up at all. Going to move on not cause I am done or happy but cause of time. I also need to sit down and work out a easy way to excise the gloss maps from the painted features without including large 9kX9k maps as a mask etc. I had though of duplicating the materials sans the hull patterned gloss but that is well duplicating the material meaning if I change one thing I gotta go change it in another material. BTW the diffuse and all textured hull stuff is Mat ID2 while the glossy aztec add on crap is all ID1 so I can have different UV data, eg I can do the aztec as a simple tiled map vs a huge fat bloated unwrapped texture.

    tos-connie-vray-140.jpg

    ANYHOW I think I will probably end up creating a ANTI gloss map as a full sized texture and applying it as a mask YUCK. Ill use a png though and crush the hell out of it as I doubt it will need more than basic grayscale 256 at the most, might be able to drop color down to 16 or 32 and still avoid mask clipping. It seems to help on viewport load and materials loads dunno how it helps if any in rendering as I think max/vray/mr converts it to a bitmap or raw data in memory.

    What sucks is in time I will have to revisit this model so I can apparently redo some of the unwrapping. Stuff like the prongs around the deflector are not flat enough or something is gone whack as no matter how much I try to adjust for it the texture always looks stretched. What is odd is it did not seem to be an issue when I placed a gridded texture to look for that sort of distortion. Maybe 2019 has better unwrap tools too as I hate how the neck ends are unwrapped as I had to use the stupid relax tools and that always makes a organic mess of things so all those grid lines are squiggles etc. At the time I had no way to get it to flatten those parts without making a mess of them. Not to mention the whole of the secondary hull mo matter what I did was always squashed front to back. Correct that and it made other things go wonk.

    What would be cool too is if there was a really good paint onto the mesh texture map maker. Where I go in in 3d and paint the texture right on the ship or apply decals from a resource file. I have seen some tools that do this but most are export import and all the hell that involves or are on different platforms or 15kusd.

    I have decided to rig the Lovell with lights too so maybe I will take a few hours to look at those shaders for the light gizmos while I was at it.
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited December 2021 #2556
    Ok, I just went for a mask map so all the decals on the ship are now sans the hull texture.
    tos-connie-vray-142.jpg
    Well anything not main hull is masked off so the front and back neck the gray bits on the nacelles etc. Only thing I did not mask off were all the small panels and little hull details. I might address that too.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Rory1707Lizzy777Hunter GBolianAdmiralwibblecaveat_imperatorStarCruisersrspicer
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Hunter GHunter G716 Posts: 408Member
    This is my favorite recreation of the classic 1701, and the paint job is top notch
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    What sucks is in time I will have to revisit this model so I can apparently redo some of the unwrapping. Stuff like the prongs around the deflector are not flat enough or something is gone whack as no matter how much I try to adjust for it the texture always looks stretched. What is odd is it did not seem to be an issue when I placed a gridded texture to look for that sort of distortion. Maybe 2019 has better unwrap tools too as I hate how the neck ends are unwrapped as I had to use the stupid relax tools and that always makes a organic mess of things so all those grid lines are squiggles etc. At the time I had no way to get it to flatten those parts without making a mess of them. Not to mention the whole of the secondary hull mo matter what I did was always squashed front to back. Correct that and it made other things go wonk.

    I have nightmares about unwrapping, I'm with you there


  • Howard DayHoward Day622 Posts: 431Member
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    OK I think I found it "normal Align" but it does not operate how it is in the video, no preview or any idea how it will look EG I gotta guess where it will go based on where I clicked on the origin object and placement object. Might be a different tool or method at work, I just have to move on and get back to work.

    Poop I cannot open the mat files to deconstruct the work. Probably more of the 2019 vs 2021 file crap. Just loads blank libs and reloads cause errors.

    Aww, poop. Sorry dude, I didnt mean to leave you hanging on this. I'm using the Select and place tool - vkb9jj342zk7.png which I've bound to the Tab key for ease of use. I *believe it works in 2019, so if you've not updated to 2022.3 or whatever I doubt you're out of luck. The key to the workflow(at least for me) is to center the pivots of the cards, and then sliiightly move the pivot downwards. Doing this pushes the end-result of the card off the surface somewhat. What version of max could I save off a demo with the materials and stuff all set up for VRay for you?
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Yeah I am permanently on 2019, if I have to upgrade to anything it wont be max in the future.

    [snip} I just found it it is called placement. Why max needs to use one name then use another elsewhere for the tool is beyond me.
    What sucks is I cannot access the flyout menu as I am using a custom UI and somewhere the main toolbar got edited. I think it was because I could not get some tools to be placed in a custom bar and retain the actions which are similar to this one. I right click and there is no menu options as mentioned in the url below. Yeah yours has the little arrow to indicate more menu options I cannot replicate that in placing the icon. It is part of why I have a butchered main toolbar over a custom one as I could not get any of those click and hold menus to replicate on a custom toolbar. I think this bs started around 2017. Even with Vray I cannot edit or alter the vray toolbar. Loads of stuff in that I do not use and would love to just place in the custom one but nope. It is all or nothing on that one.

    interesting I cannot assign tab as a hotkey for the placement tool. . . . maybe assign it to pipe as I do not use the animation shortcuts.

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2019/ENU/3DSMax-Basics/files/GUID-E5E307BC-3DC5-42D0-88D0-5289442DB8F7-htm.html


    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited December 2021 #2560
    Well not really worth an update but I put some tubes under those grills as the sidewalls did stand out way too much with the lighting on the struts.
    tos-connie-vray-143.jpg

    eugh they do not really show up much in jpg.

    oh forgot a current state on the station
    ds-g-6-0196.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Warp Propulsion LaboratoryRory1707ashleytingerwibblerojrenBolianAdmiralStarCruisersrspicerLizzy777caveat_imperatorand 2 others.
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  • Warp Propulsion LaboratoryWarp Propulsion Laboratory830 BrooklynPosts: 269Member
    Love that detail.
    Please visit my YouTube channel!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqRhLEHgwgTKxsalM5YznYQ


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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited December 2021 #2562
    ARGH rage, Anyone know what setting in the render menus causes this?? I made the fucking mistake of scrolling the mouse wheel while hovering over the menu in a used to attempt to scroll the menu UP in vray menus this is a fuck up that causes nearby radio buttons and fields to change. I for the life of me cannot figure what it is that got changed to create this error. as of now I cannot render anything.

    rage.png

    All of this shit in a stupid attempt to eliminate some of the reflected light noise in the render that likely would disappear in post and grading. . . . . . . . . sigh. and of course everything I find online is for vray 4 3.4 5 5.1 etc and none of it matches my ui in any form.

    Heh stupid forgot to post the rendering tab that I had open. I cannot find anything off but meh. Likely have to revert and loose any changes and the Frambuffer. Did not really want to but meh. I also added in the vray denoiser in render elements but even deleting this did not restore this error so I am assuming it was in this vray tab that got altered when I used the scroll wheel mouse was near the upper options.

    rage-set-up.png

    waht is odd is this noise int he the reflection does not show up at say 2k and is slight in 4k but go higher rez and it shows up more and more. It is like a setting somewhere is fixed to pixel count so as it goes up it needs to ramp up as well. Kind of liek that crappy bloom from early scanline in max where your ship would be close up and the bloom on lights looks good but as the ship fly into the distance those bloom glows stayed the same dia so they soon are much larger than the entire ship as the math is based on the image not on the elements. So a reverse of this reflected light noise. EG this is not noise in the sampling of the objects but in the reflections in those objects. Most of the results in google all focus on object noise which makes for grainy edges and noisy overall image not surfacing noise. I think in the end I will just live with it vs adding a hour to renders or spending 3 days tuning it out or getting fuzzy smooshy results. I quit using the denoiser in this version for the fact it made a mess of fine detail and made some things muddy and "clippy" in some dark areas. Already have some clipping I cannot tune out to my satisfaction.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited December 2021 #2563
    Found it IMAGE SAMPLER Render MASK was set to layers vs mask and of course it is one of those damned drop down menus. Least is is readable vs some sentence of crap that is like "lay. . . ."

    Took the time to run denoiser through the vray one and it kinda got rid of some of it but kinda muddied it up so given I have fairly short renders so I will go look at what I can ramp up to maybe eliminate it more.
    Sample of an A vs B left is denoiser right is plain the division is down the middle of the light fixture.
    tos-connie-vray-146a.png

    Here is a sample of the noise at 400% screen cap so you do not have to zoom in. So far google is useless loads of references to sampling rates for things not in my render roll out menus. Or references to next5 which apparently the entire UI does not match up. (looks like a overhaul was done in 3.4
    Given this noise has color in it and all edges are fairly crisp this is not the typical gritty edges noise most people complain about. This looks more like ccd noise.
    tos-connie-vray-147.png
    amt I am about to just accept it and filter it in post. Denoiser I am afraid will create halos on alpha channels. ( I vaguely remember there being some sort of artifact with it last time or a crashing issue with large files.) I cannot use the nvidia one as I am stuck on a gtx770 so it lacks the hardware to utilize it. That and well when I did have a gpu that could do it it always defaulted to disabled any time I went to change things. Even the vray one I have to keep checking to make sure it is "enabled" as it keeps disabling.

    ATM it is crapping out a 9kX4.5k image in a hour or 2. Im pushing some elements out as separate layers for comp control but it seems much faster than before (last year and many steps faster than mental Ray ever was. These sorts of renders in MR would take 12+ hours.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    publiusrRory1707Lizzy777StarCruiser
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  • publiusrpubliusr320 Posts: 1,458Member
    Outstanding work.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Welp, back at it. Gonna get a bit more exaggerated in the depths so it reads better from a distance.

    emissary-0467.jpg
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  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral851 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,298Member
    Sweet!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited January 7 #2567
    Some more small changes to the central area. I might pull off some of the older details to simplify the flanking pits. Probably going to stencil some stuff on those light blue areas to break that up too. Access panels or the like.
    emissary-0468.jpg

    emissary-0469.jpg

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
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  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral851 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,298Member
    Looking really good!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    edited January 8 #2569
    Working out lines and shapes in the drawing into reality. . . . lol Keep in mind the black lines will be panels in the future so beveled and inset. Least that is the plan.

    emissary-0472.jpg
    emissary-0473.jpg
    emissary-0474.jpg
    Might start some of the other conversions I need to do today, or finish cleaning the mess I made of my "office". Really the back half of the living room. New desk etc and everything is everywhere now. Been waiting 4 months do do this.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
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  • scifiericscifieric907 Posts: 1,324Member
    The enterprise, the other ships, and the station are all absolutely beautiful work, Madkoifish. Excellently done!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Misc updates and changes. Scaled down some lifeboats to a 4person (well I guess you could cram 8 in there) pod to match up with that is shown in the image. The ones drawn are about half the size of the ones I have. Should see how close I matched them to Voyagers hatches. Maybe that is what I will waste the rest of tonight doing importing a voyager to max scaling it and comparing my hatches I guess.
    emissary-0480.jpg
    emissary-0481.jpg
    Ones I have on the model right now are about 11X12.5X8FT.
    I plan to alter the overlaied grid in the drawing with a panel line jog around the pods.
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  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral851 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,298Member
    Those lifeboats look great.
  • ViperViper1265 Posts: 690Administrator
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Yeah I am permanently on 2019, if I have to upgrade to anything it wont be max in the future.

    You chose the worst version to stop on. 2019 was not good.

  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    I did not choose it, Discreet did by going to a rental platform.
    Gestalt
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Laying out the panels long the upper hull.

    emissary-0485.jpg
    emissary-0486.jpg
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Panel lines extruded.

    emissary-0492.jpg
    emissary-0493.jpg
    emissary-0494.jpg
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  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral851 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,298Member
    Looking good!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Some sort of older updates, roughing in details on the spine/super. And redoing somethings on the impulse nozzle. Need to sit down and re-merge in the inset area (the green trough the impulse is sitting in) SO that I can do the extrusions and get to working in the paneling that surrounds it. I also need to adjust the impulse exhaust surface too. Figure I will use the translucency I normally do and create the geo behind so that whatever blender can use or do the stuff will be there. VS a atm ugly plane of glowing red stuff.
    Mostly all of this is little bits here and there over the last week or so.

    emissary-0497.jpg

    emissary-0500.jpg
    Ignore the pillowy smoothing errors already corrected those.
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Quick test run of the lum elements for the impulse grill.
    emissary-0501.jpg
    emissary-0502.jpg
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Having had a look at the drawings again I decided not to inset the blue area but to treat it as plating and model in the sensor pits. Some reason I had though it was all intergrated into the blue area. . go fig. I reset those cutouts flanking the impulse to be the same top to bottom but part of why I had them vertically asymmetrical was the contrasting angles conflicting with the hull angles. (something of a peeve of mine) SO I dunno what I will do about this area. Best would be to angle the super structure sides that make up that rear profile but that means dumping all the the external hull. SO yeah maybe not. . . . .

    emissary-0505.jpg
    emissary-0506.jpg
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish5389 BurntforniaPosts: 4,766Member
    Mostly a test render to see how panel planning is working out. Going on the guess that the large orange rectangles are transporter emitters.

    emissary-0508.jpg
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