Glad I asked. That's much easier sounding than I thought.
Agree that the opening is probably the same. The ceiling greeble is actually not visible at that angle. I wonder if it is meant for handling delicate antimatter? I know, just a movie.
I think the 4 bay pic is from the 2nd model they made for the voyager episode " Flashback" becasue it has a hole lot of different problems as you look at it.. as in no mesh or whatever is in the other inside pics, and its flush with the cutout... i'd say go with the cargo hook/graber thingy, as in the christies pics, and use the screen cap of the rest with the 2 door thingy.. Hope that made sense!!
I always wondered is that bottom hangar area for docking a large science shuttle or support craft? I mean it has docking clamps there by the look of it....
Does look like some sort of hanger or docking facility, especially with that lighting in the screenshot, looks the same as the model shot, just that the interior detail hanging from the ceiling is sticking out a bit on the model shot, maybe that Greeble just got slightly displaced, as it looks completely inside the bay in the movie screenshot.
Well, i accept that that area *could* serve a cargo or fueling function, its design is still a waste of space and also, there is no similar structure on any other starfleet vessel so I think its just a bit poorly designed in that area. The rest of the ship is beautiful though.
Looking at the high rez images I'd say it is definitely some form of unusual hanger, especially with what looks like docking clamps protruding from that structure in the ceiling. Damn, now I want to know what sort of ship is supposed to dock in there.
Of course worst of all are the giant impulse engines that were added to the Enterprise-B/Lakota version which are perfectly positioned to melt the warp nacelles! I really don't understand how John Eaves (and everyone else) missed this rather drastic design flaw. Some have said that they were meant to be shuttlebays but I've never seen a shuttlebay with glowing red doors. In any event it would be a very tricky maneuver to launch or land a shuttle in a bay with such close proximity to the nacelle. John Eaves reckoned the ship would need more powerful impulse engines for when the saucer separated but why would you need *more* power to propel *less* of the ship? The original impulse drives would seem to have been prefectly adequate to propel the combined vessel.
Food For Thought
While all the manuals tell you the Impulse Engine is essentially an over glorified Newtonian Rocket of traditional physics, On screen evidence strongly implies it too is a form of field propulsion. The Excelsior' Mk II engine placement would follow that concept. Many designs from the Constitution II, Galaxy Class have been seen using impulse engines for reverse thrust. Also many ships like Defiant and Nebula don't have the expected exhaust for any rocket fire. Speculation in favor of the Rocket fire imploys force fields to redirect flow but such a system would be prone to failure and interference such as within nebula. It also doesn't explain the Constitution II's frequent use of reverse on impulse in a Nebula and without use of proper shields in Space Dock.
Further Note that Dr. Bashir notes that returning to Federation space without warp would take a much shorter time than impulse engines should really be capable of (implying faster than light). But most glaringly...no federation ship carries the fuel reserverse to opperate impulse engines and rockets AND constantly supply the warp core and ship is power.
Ultimately they defined what the impulse engine was only after many effects were already in place and likely oblivious to what they'd done before and how often they had done it.
Saquist.. to me Impulse, as defined by me in my readings and knowledge of whats going on (and maybe completly wrong mind you)
Impulse is a combination of of various technologys. a fusion reactor, (though warp power can be used) a machine to negate mass , a magnetic/gravitic propulsion , and a propulsive vent. so basically.. impulse drive moves the ship by lightening the mass to a point where a minimum of thrust is nesesary to propel the ship at some % of light speed. while reversing thrust the magnetic/gravitic drive reverses and the vent is closed kind of like shifting down in a car with a clutch. ( why the enterprise done a 180 when the probe was chasing her in the Nth degree.. to get the impulse vents inline to go full impulse at max acceleration..) while warp speed can be done forward or backwards just as easily...
now impulse speed is limited due to relativistic effects.. so full impulse is maybe 0.3 c. but the limiters can be thrown out and have the ship accelerate to .9c , but have horrible relativistic effects, but gets ur there sooner, incase warp power is inoperative and can't be fixed ( see Star Trek Destiny)
also why they check the time beacons ocasionally.. even traveling at .001 impulse has a time effect...
In regards to the so called "what's-its-function" area underneath the secondary hull, I've always been fond of the "modular method" and that the structures within could be mission specific. Given that the Excelsior class was an experimental Starfleet design meant to usher in an all new era of exploration, colonization, and Federation defense, I've always loved the idea that large areas of any ship could be left open for large modular structures to be inserted, given the task at hand. Extra cargo/shuttle hanger space, extra weaponry, extra scientific sensors/probes and labs, pre-fabricated colonial structures ready to set up like a kit, etc...
In some ways it could explain all that wasted space within. Alas this was never realized in any use of the Excelsior class from its many incarnations over the years, but one can dream.
Food For Thought
Further Note that Dr. Bashir notes that returning to Federation space without warp would take a much shorter time than impulse engines should really be capable of (implying faster than light).
Considering he was genetically modified to be super smart, he could've been factoring in time dilation from travelling at full impulse
I was going to make the same argument as Basill regarding the lower "hanger" area. Alas, he beat me to it.
I actually like the detail of that hanger area and used it in my USS Boundless WIP. I fear my modelling skills are no match for Tobia's. I can only hope one day to bring the design to the level of finish he achieves with all his models.
No. The AMT kit was it's on variation on the Original Model.
I've had my AMT Excelsior (still in the box) since 98'. The model was created in 1994"
The Undiscovered Country was in 1992
Generations was in 1994 (Modified Excelsior)
The 4 Foot Models First appearance was in Way of the Warrior 1995 with the Venture task Force.
Flashback used the new 4 foot model to replace the original 7 foot model in late 1996
The Model was featured again in DS9 in 1997 For the Uniform for the second time. And all the Excelsior's seen up to Call to Arms.
What we saw later was the CGI Excelsior in the Season Six through Seven with the Fleet actions.
No. The AMT kit was it's on variation on the Original Model.
I've had my AMT Excelsior (still in the box) since 98'. The model was created in 1994"
The Undiscovered Country was in 1992
Generations was in 1994 (Modified Excelsior)
The 4 Foot Models First appearance was in Way of the Warrior 1995 with the Venture task Force.
Flashback used the new 4 foot model to replace the original 7 foot model in late 1996
The Model was featured again in DS9 in 1997 For the Uniform for the second time. And all the Excelsior's seen up to Call to Arms.
What we saw later was the CGI Excelsior in the Season Six through Seven with the Fleet actions.
Indeed 1991.
Alpha presents Way of the Warrior as speculation of Stock Images. Yet it would make sense as Flashback presented the first reason another Excelsior model was needed. Yet I have never found what supposed original shots of the Excelsior in Way of the Warrior came from.
In any case the AMT model doesn't resemble either Excelsior as a derivative or rather it could be either. It's very simple and only about 24" long. The original Model went through 3 incarnations and the 4ft model was a repeat of the last incarnation. The AMT model maybe closer to the year Flashback occured but 1994 was an explosion of models almost as though capitalizing on a movie or something. But they did "retool" this AMT model for Enterprise B. That tells me that the Flashback Excelsior didn't exist yet.
Small update - paneling the underside of the secondary is done (I will save the panels and windows on the side of the secondary hull probably for last), as well as the top back area. Next up will be paneling and pylon mount...
His tag does say Star Trek III, but no the details on this model seem to be specifically for the Star Trek VI version of Excelsior. But it wouldn't take much to convert it especially if he wanted give the fans a treat in one of the calendars.
The only two differences in the model are the back hangar and some impulse engine details. Since almost all my reference material is from the ST VI version, thatAâs what I build.
Posts
Agree that the opening is probably the same. The ceiling greeble is actually not visible at that angle. I wonder if it is meant for handling delicate antimatter? I know, just a movie.
EDIT: updated my reference file with new images and screenshots... hope it helps!
https://picasaweb.google.com/114583233071020613327/ExcelsiorReference#
Al
Food For Thought
While all the manuals tell you the Impulse Engine is essentially an over glorified Newtonian Rocket of traditional physics, On screen evidence strongly implies it too is a form of field propulsion. The Excelsior' Mk II engine placement would follow that concept. Many designs from the Constitution II, Galaxy Class have been seen using impulse engines for reverse thrust. Also many ships like Defiant and Nebula don't have the expected exhaust for any rocket fire. Speculation in favor of the Rocket fire imploys force fields to redirect flow but such a system would be prone to failure and interference such as within nebula. It also doesn't explain the Constitution II's frequent use of reverse on impulse in a Nebula and without use of proper shields in Space Dock.
Further Note that Dr. Bashir notes that returning to Federation space without warp would take a much shorter time than impulse engines should really be capable of (implying faster than light). But most glaringly...no federation ship carries the fuel reserverse to opperate impulse engines and rockets AND constantly supply the warp core and ship is power.
Ultimately they defined what the impulse engine was only after many effects were already in place and likely oblivious to what they'd done before and how often they had done it.
Impulse is a combination of of various technologys. a fusion reactor, (though warp power can be used) a machine to negate mass , a magnetic/gravitic propulsion , and a propulsive vent. so basically.. impulse drive moves the ship by lightening the mass to a point where a minimum of thrust is nesesary to propel the ship at some % of light speed. while reversing thrust the magnetic/gravitic drive reverses and the vent is closed kind of like shifting down in a car with a clutch. ( why the enterprise done a 180 when the probe was chasing her in the Nth degree.. to get the impulse vents inline to go full impulse at max acceleration..) while warp speed can be done forward or backwards just as easily...
now impulse speed is limited due to relativistic effects.. so full impulse is maybe 0.3 c. but the limiters can be thrown out and have the ship accelerate to .9c , but have horrible relativistic effects, but gets ur there sooner, incase warp power is inoperative and can't be fixed ( see Star Trek Destiny)
also why they check the time beacons ocasionally.. even traveling at .001 impulse has a time effect...
well in my opinion
In some ways it could explain all that wasted space within. Alas this was never realized in any use of the Excelsior class from its many incarnations over the years, but one can dream.
Considering he was genetically modified to be super smart, he could've been factoring in time dilation from travelling at full impulse
Also did the rear photon torpedo array...
I actually like the detail of that hanger area and used it in my USS Boundless WIP. I fear my modelling skills are no match for Tobia's. I can only hope one day to bring the design to the level of finish he achieves with all his models.
It may be me but the lights look much bigger on the image provided 2 pages ago showing Star Trek VI on the out side of the cargo opening.
I never noticed any of those before though, are they there in all the movies?
That might be a variation to do...
A dropship to fit that lower area might be a good add on...
I've had my AMT Excelsior (still in the box) since 98'. The model was created in 1994"
The Undiscovered Country was in 1992
Generations was in 1994 (Modified Excelsior)
The 4 Foot Models First appearance was in Way of the Warrior 1995 with the Venture task Force.
Flashback used the new 4 foot model to replace the original 7 foot model in late 1996
The Model was featured again in DS9 in 1997 For the Uniform for the second time. And all the Excelsior's seen up to Call to Arms.
What we saw later was the CGI Excelsior in the Season Six through Seven with the Fleet actions.
According to http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class_model Way of the Warrior used stock footage, not the 4 foot.
Various Work: U.S.S. Constellation - Matt Jefferies Concept Shuttle
Alpha presents Way of the Warrior as speculation of Stock Images. Yet it would make sense as Flashback presented the first reason another Excelsior model was needed. Yet I have never found what supposed original shots of the Excelsior in Way of the Warrior came from.
In any case the AMT model doesn't resemble either Excelsior as a derivative or rather it could be either. It's very simple and only about 24" long. The original Model went through 3 incarnations and the 4ft model was a repeat of the last incarnation. The AMT model maybe closer to the year Flashback occured but 1994 was an explosion of models almost as though capitalizing on a movie or something. But they did "retool" this AMT model for Enterprise B. That tells me that the Flashback Excelsior didn't exist yet.
Various Work: U.S.S. Constellation - Matt Jefferies Concept Shuttle
Just kidding, great as always!