The red plane is indeed sexy, but the mid-fuselage props don't sit well with me. Putting them there would seem to complicate the engineering considerably, since major structural elements would have to run through the middle of the hub rings. Have you considered rear-mounted props like a Shinden?
I do like the overall lines, the subtly forward-swept wings, and the nose.
The red plane is indeed sexy, but the mid-fuselage props don't sit well with me. Putting them there would seem to complicate the engineering considerably, since major structural elements would have to run through the middle of the hub rings. Have you considered rear-mounted props like a Shinden?
I do like the overall lines, the subtly forward-swept wings, and the nose.
Well, the mid-fuselage props were the main idea of design . And yes, there will be a shinden-like aircraft. There are three major aircraft-builders in-universe. Kingdom of Seven Winds (KoSW or KSW) mostly relies on "classic" towing propeller configuration. Ankara prefere more streamlined pusher prop config. Shinden-like cutter will be of their origin. Jinam mostly use ducted inpellers - their aircraft is most futuristic-looking.
However, since the aerial ocean is most important medium of transportation, aircrafts of different kind are widespread and relatively available to different people. This gives rise to numerous customisation workshops and various enthusiasts, building their very own designs.
Menwhile - here`s the update. Pannel lining is finished + materials are tweaked a bit. All what`s left are minor details around landing gears and blured spinning props.
Under sunlight + tweaked materials some more. This is the final version of mats, I think.
IT is a cool looking plane, just as an Engineer I see a of stress and weight & balance issues with it.
No doubt you`ll see a lot of issues, since it just looks "plausable", without much research included. Stress issues are completely handwaved. As for mass distribution, the center of mass should be just in front of the cockpit, but it is simply a rough guess of course. Internal composition from nose to tail looks about that way:
1) Nose section - electric motor+2x15mm chainguns+ammo
2) Propellers
3) Lift system (negative weight, center of mass)
4) Cockpit, radiators beneath it
5) Core generator, steam turbine beneath it.
Water and other liquids are stored in tanks behind the cockpit and in wings.
the nose section would almost certainly spin even with contra rotating props - only way to prevent it would be to have a hollow drive shaft with connecting structure in the middle - which would leave a weak structure for both drive shaft itself and for connecting structure - though i suppose you could significantly increase the diameter of the drive shaft but would then need a fairly complicated gearing system being needed
it really looks great but the mechanics of that nose do annoy me - cant help but think you could have essentially the same plane but with the nose at the front and save a lot of engineering issues - while maintaining the cool shape and increasing its aerodynamic efficiency in the process
but since its not real - none of that really matters
Whole plane is actually "hollow structure", it is in no way a "weakness". Nose section and the rest of the plane are connected by a cylindrical midsection, around which rotor hubs rotate. Problems with counter-spinning rotors are much simpler then those that were successfully solved on Kamov helicopter designs. So, actually I don`t see any unsolvable technological issues with such props position. Aerodynamics and balance could be an issue + no actual reason to make so overcomplicated design exist. But that`s a fantasy tale with flying battleships after all
Forgot to make rotor hub monotone, to make it look blurry. Other than that, I think the model is complete.
Anyway, I quickly drew up the following in power point, so please excuse the crudeness of the drawing:
In this concept a single spar runs the length of the aircraft connecting the forward and rear fuselages, and adding rigidity. Then to improve airflow the props would extend from central hubs that are flush with the fuselage to decrease air flow issues and give a cleaner appearance. Your engine would then need to either wrap around the spar or sit under or over it with the transmission to the props running to the prop hubs.
We designed an electric plane that used this concept in college, but it was a pusher design with a ducted fan cowling. Never made it past the scale model phase though and we used two electric motors instead of a more complex transmission.
Well, close to what I did, but in my case "forward" and "rear" fuselage internals are reversed. Where you placed engine on my scheme is the center of mass and lift system
Modeling is somewhat partial (and crappy 20-pass render too), and the scheme is just a rough illustration.
Very well done SC! My only crits you've already addressed really. I think the only aerodynamic issue I see is that the small bit of wake coming off the canard might disrupt the relative wind on the props and could possibly cause a prop stall especially at low speed near Vso or Vs. Pushers deal with this by just accepting a loss of prop efficiency and putting enough space between the trailing edge of a wing to give the relative wind ample distance to create a somewhat stable, albeit, disrupted air flow but I'm concerned with the canard being so close to the prop face. Moving the canard a foot or so toward the nose would alleviate this issue if it's a problem at all. But without actually testing that issue it's gonna be hard to say for sure.
And you will get a lot of parasite drag from the prop hubs not having a cowling flush with the fuselage. The prop roots are within the circumference of the engine cowl so that's wasted prop face and the area of turbulence created by the gap in the cowling might also cause a prop root stall which is a really bad thing at low speeds. I'd flush that up if I were you. It's gonna increase airspeed and make an already very sexy looking plane look sexier. But as you said it's a fantasy universe so no reason to get too in depth with realism. But that being said I think you are handling "suspension of disbelief" very well! Always a pleasure viewing your work as a fellow SU modeler.
As to Knight's concerns I disagree. I think the current configuration would not have to have a central spar for rigidity. It would take some tricky mounting work but I see no reason the engine can't be in the position it's in. The motor mount goes through the center of the prop rings and the engine drives those rings from an offset gearing system (transmission) therefore problem solved. I do think it's an over-designed concept as the performance gain would be minimal at best but I believe it would fly! Besides, there may be some environmental factors in SC's universe at play here that require aircraft to be built this way.
And would you mind sharing your technique on get the prop spinning effect in the render's? That's fantastic! I gotta know how you did it.
Very well done SC! My only crits you've already addressed really. I think the only aerodynamic issue I see is that the small bit of wake coming off the canard might disrupt the relative wind on the props and could possibly cause a prop stall especially at low speed near Vso or Vs. Pushers deal with this by just accepting a loss of prop efficiency and putting enough space between the trailing edge of a wing to give the relative wind ample distance to create a somewhat stable, albeit, disrupted air flow but I'm concerned with the canard being so close to the prop face. Moving the canard a foot or so toward the nose would alleviate this issue if it's a problem at all. But without actually testing that issue it's gonna be hard to say for sure.
Sadly enough I found about this (and some other technical errors) when the main shape of the model was complete. Was too lazy to re-invent the whole thing. If you move canards forward, the whole frame won`t look so "fast".
And you will get a lot of parasite drag from the prop hubs not having a cowling flush with the fuselage. The prop roots are within the circumference of the engine cowl so that's wasted prop face and the area of turbulence created by the gap in the cowling might also cause a prop root stall which is a really bad thing at low speeds. I'd flush that up if I were you. It's gonna increase airspeed and make an already very sexy looking plane look sexier. But as you said it's a fantasy universe so no reason to get too in depth with realism. But that being said I think you are handling "suspension of disbelief" very well! Always a pleasure viewing your work as a fellow SU modeler.
That was the second error When I got the idea of sleek propeller rings over the main hull, I`ve allready made hull of the cutter much like WWII fighter. I mean - it is not cylindrical. So, guess, I will implement this idea in one of the upcoming designs.
As to Knight's concerns I disagree. I think the current configuration would not have to have a central spar for rigidity. It would take some tricky mounting work but I see no reason the engine can't be in the position it's in. The motor mount goes through the center of the prop rings and the engine drives those rings from an offset gearing system (transmission) therefore problem solved. I do think it's an over-designed concept as the performance gain would be minimal at best but I believe it would fly! Besides, there may be some environmental factors in SC's universe at play here that require aircraft to be built this way.
There is no actual necessity to build the cutter this way. It`s sort of "and why not build it thes way?" design.
And would you mind sharing your technique on get the prop spinning effect in the render's? That's fantastic! I gotta know how you did it.
Pretty simple actually.
1) Render your propeller model. Front view, with ambient only, or with sun shining exactly 90 degrees to the rotor plane.
2) In PS or other application, cut away everything save for the rotor. Place the result directly in the center of square field.
3) Apply "radial blur" to your taste. You can copy the layer and apply blur several times for interesting results.
4) You will need 2 files for render in Kerkythea.
a) Diffusion map. This will be your "texture". To make it, make a layer bellow your blurred prop and fill it with black.
b) Refraction map. This will be your transparency. To make it, make another layer bellow the blurred prop (make black one invisible) and fill it with white. It will be good idea to make diplicate of your prop, and convert it to grayscale. However, that`s not necessary.
5) Go to SU, and import your image (no matter which one). Allign it with your actual propeller.
6) "Explode" your imported image, than convert it into object or group. This is necessary! Kerkythea won`t import "standalone" texture, untill it applied to an object.
7) Hide your 3D propeller and export file to kerkythea.
8) In kerkythea, apply diffusion and refraction maps accordingly. Don`t forget to set refraction to 1.0 (it will be 2.0 by default), or you will get some funny effects.
That cutter is looking very sexy Stonecold!
Forgive my lack of airplanes knowledge, but are those silver things at the back of the wings, near the fuselage, air brakes?
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
That cutter is looking very sexy Stonecold!
Forgive my lack of airplanes knowledge, but are those silver things at the back of the wings, near the fuselage, air brakes?
Great work both the Switft and this one.
Are you a max user?
Thanx.
And, nope, everything done in google sketchup. If you zoom enough, you can find default man figure (for scale purpose) from SU. Forgot to turn him off before rendering. The guy is stending on the deck, bellow the second main caliber turret.
Well, here we are. The last render before "release" A think. Minor tweaks here and there, some minor details added, textures fixed. SU guy is still on deck (forgot him second time in a row, lol). All what is left - to fix an issue with glass in round windows, lower right-side AA turrets housing position (flipped them upside-down by mistake), maybe add some crew on the deck and compose the final scene.
BTW, for statistics purpose - ship is 200.5 meters long. A bit bigger then I think initially, but it looks good in this size category.
On the mast, one flag is a country flag (KoSW, same as an emblem on the hull), and another one is a personal banner of the fleet commander.
Nose decoration is a sort of tradition in KoSW, tribute to the god of wind, depicted as a huge bird.
Kite on the rope above the landing deck is a guidance kite - on a final render, there will be a courier cutter incoming.
Symbols on the top structure is a ship`s number (51) and ones on the side - ship`s name (Bear`s claw). Font is tengwar, language - lojban (probably illiterate, but that`s as far as I can get).
Well, sort of update. Not a ship this time, but same universe. Bipedal biomechanical war machine (or superheavy infantry will be closer to the idea?). Well, any way, that`s a golem. "Nude" one (without external covers and armor). Sort of crossbreed between Evangelions from "NGE", guymelefs from "Vision of Escaflowne" and mortarheadds from "Five Star Stories". About 8 meter tall (to shoulder). Typical weight: 12 tonnes dry. Muscles, nerves and so on, are grown over metallic endo-exoskeleton. Golem do not posses most internal organs, living by more compact artificial analogues of lungs, heart, digestive system, etc. Pilot is riding in cockpit, located in the chest of golem. Living part of all golems is identical. Any differences in external appearance are outer armor and equipment, or different specs of the skeleton.
I can`t claim authorship over this model, since most "biological" parts (human body, hands) were found in google warehouse (don`t remember who build them - some japaneese guy, I think) and then modified by me. External parts of the skeleton and head are my work. Model is far from being detailed, or even correctly shaped yet.
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The raider's data sheet looks great as well.
I do like the overall lines, the subtly forward-swept wings, and the nose.
Well, the mid-fuselage props were the main idea of design
However, since the aerial ocean is most important medium of transportation, aircrafts of different kind are widespread and relatively available to different people. This gives rise to numerous customisation workshops and various enthusiasts, building their very own designs.
Menwhile - here`s the update. Pannel lining is finished + materials are tweaked a bit. All what`s left are minor details around landing gears and blured spinning props.
Under sunlight + tweaked materials some more. This is the final version of mats, I think.
Not exactly what I had in mind, but we`ll se when time comes for Jinam craft.
No doubt you`ll see a lot of issues, since it just looks "plausable", without much research included. Stress issues are completely handwaved. As for mass distribution, the center of mass should be just in front of the cockpit, but it is simply a rough guess of course. Internal composition from nose to tail looks about that way:
1) Nose section - electric motor+2x15mm chainguns+ammo
2) Propellers
3) Lift system (negative weight, center of mass)
4) Cockpit, radiators beneath it
5) Core generator, steam turbine beneath it.
Water and other liquids are stored in tanks behind the cockpit and in wings.
it really looks great but the mechanics of that nose do annoy me - cant help but think you could have essentially the same plane but with the nose at the front and save a lot of engineering issues - while maintaining the cool shape and increasing its aerodynamic efficiency in the process
but since its not real - none of that really matters
Forgot to make rotor hub monotone, to make it look blurry. Other than that, I think the model is complete.
Slightly different camera angle
Anyway, I quickly drew up the following in power point, so please excuse the crudeness of the drawing:
In this concept a single spar runs the length of the aircraft connecting the forward and rear fuselages, and adding rigidity. Then to improve airflow the props would extend from central hubs that are flush with the fuselage to decrease air flow issues and give a cleaner appearance. Your engine would then need to either wrap around the spar or sit under or over it with the transmission to the props running to the prop hubs.
We designed an electric plane that used this concept in college, but it was a pusher design with a ducted fan cowling. Never made it past the scale model phase though and we used two electric motors instead of a more complex transmission.
Modeling is somewhat partial (and crappy 20-pass render too), and the scheme is just a rough illustration.
And you will get a lot of parasite drag from the prop hubs not having a cowling flush with the fuselage. The prop roots are within the circumference of the engine cowl so that's wasted prop face and the area of turbulence created by the gap in the cowling might also cause a prop root stall which is a really bad thing at low speeds. I'd flush that up if I were you. It's gonna increase airspeed and make an already very sexy looking plane look sexier. But as you said it's a fantasy universe so no reason to get too in depth with realism. But that being said I think you are handling "suspension of disbelief" very well! Always a pleasure viewing your work as a fellow SU modeler.
As to Knight's concerns I disagree. I think the current configuration would not have to have a central spar for rigidity. It would take some tricky mounting work but I see no reason the engine can't be in the position it's in. The motor mount goes through the center of the prop rings and the engine drives those rings from an offset gearing system (transmission) therefore problem solved. I do think it's an over-designed concept as the performance gain would be minimal at best but I believe it would fly! Besides, there may be some environmental factors in SC's universe at play here that require aircraft to be built this way.
And would you mind sharing your technique on get the prop spinning effect in the render's? That's fantastic! I gotta know how you did it.
Will render it with gears retracted next time. Or, you can see how it works on orthos.
Sadly enough I found about this (and some other technical errors) when the main shape of the model was complete. Was too lazy to re-invent the whole thing. If you move canards forward, the whole frame won`t look so "fast".
That was the second error
There is no actual necessity to build the cutter this way. It`s sort of "and why not build it thes way?" design. Pretty simple actually.
1) Render your propeller model. Front view, with ambient only, or with sun shining exactly 90 degrees to the rotor plane.
2) In PS or other application, cut away everything save for the rotor. Place the result directly in the center of square field.
3) Apply "radial blur" to your taste. You can copy the layer and apply blur several times for interesting results.
4) You will need 2 files for render in Kerkythea.
a) Diffusion map. This will be your "texture". To make it, make a layer bellow your blurred prop and fill it with black.
b) Refraction map. This will be your transparency. To make it, make another layer bellow the blurred prop (make black one invisible) and fill it with white. It will be good idea to make diplicate of your prop, and convert it to grayscale. However, that`s not necessary.
5) Go to SU, and import your image (no matter which one). Allign it with your actual propeller.
6) "Explode" your imported image, than convert it into object or group. This is necessary! Kerkythea won`t import "standalone" texture, untill it applied to an object.
7) Hide your 3D propeller and export file to kerkythea.
8) In kerkythea, apply diffusion and refraction maps accordingly. Don`t forget to set refraction to 1.0 (it will be 2.0 by default), or you will get some funny effects.
And that`s all.
Well, here`s the data sheet for the cutter.
Following you work this is a lovely addition to your portfolio!
Keep it up.
PS - I dont have any critiques that were already addressed here, and due to my limited knowledge concerning the technics of aeroplanes and the such :P
Forgive my lack of airplanes knowledge, but are those silver things at the back of the wings, near the fuselage, air brakes?
I`m glad, that the tutoreal was of any help. I`ve spent some time trying to figure out how this trick work.
Thanx.
Yes, flaps, combined with airbrakes.
Are you a max user?
And, nope, everything done in google sketchup. If you zoom enough, you can find default man figure (for scale purpose) from SU. Forgot to turn him off before rendering. The guy is stending on the deck, bellow the second main caliber turret.
BTW, for statistics purpose - ship is 200.5 meters long. A bit bigger then I think initially, but it looks good in this size category.
On the mast, one flag is a country flag (KoSW, same as an emblem on the hull), and another one is a personal banner of the fleet commander.
Nose decoration is a sort of tradition in KoSW, tribute to the god of wind, depicted as a huge bird.
Kite on the rope above the landing deck is a guidance kite - on a final render, there will be a courier cutter incoming.
Symbols on the top structure is a ship`s number (51) and ones on the side - ship`s name (Bear`s claw). Font is tengwar, language - lojban (probably illiterate, but that`s as far as I can get).
Yep.
sweet baby jesus that's awesome! such a well-thought out ship, and it's so pretty too!
I can`t claim authorship over this model, since most "biological" parts (human body, hands) were found in google warehouse (don`t remember who build them - some japaneese guy, I think) and then modified by me. External parts of the skeleton and head are my work. Model is far from being detailed, or even correctly shaped yet.