That is a radical reintrepretation of where the reactor is supposed to be. If I have understood what you are doing, correctly.
My understanding of FJ's plans has always been that the reactor(s) are in the nacelles, with power feeds coming down from the nacelles, to supply powerr for ship's systems, and Hotel functions. I am not sure that the risk would be justified, considering that MJ, was very concermed with the nature of the matter-antimatter reaction, and the nature of the space warp.
But your attempt is very good looking, however.
Ok, I got what I felt was two conflicting stories on this early on. I ended up initally favoring what you just said.. until
"dilithium crystal articulation frame
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Episode: TNG 195 - Drumhead, The
Component of the warp drive system of a starship that holds the dilithium crystals suspended in the drive's matter/antimatter stream, where the crystals can regulate the matter/antimatter reaction."
If one looks at FJ's sheet 7, there in all it's glory is the dilithium containment chamber as seen in the series. It would be easier just to have a
power uplink in that position. It's simpler to model, eats fewer polys and gives me fewer headaches. But you don't have a dilithium chamber in
main engineering without a matter/antimatter stream for it to manage. Thus, a warp core is called for.
I can't find a way around the logic. Especially since some real trek geeks browbeat me about it and I couldn't counter the argument. I brought up the argument about reactors in the nacelles too. This was immediately
shot down. And I couldn't argue that point either. The nacelles cannot be accessed with the main engines online.
This argues completely against reactors in the nacelles in that sense. So, I had to overturn my initial decision and
go with this. And, yes, the change is recent.
The problem is that TNG is a different generation of ideas. Similar, but different. In other words refering to TNG, to explain TOS doesn't work.
The next problem, comes from the real world. In Nuclear Reactors, there is no way to access the reactor, due to intense radiation, and what refueling entails, is a real headache. This is why, reactors are being designed so as to not need access to them, ever - they outlast the ship itself.
Now to get to my point. If you look at the Independence Class Armed Freighter, where is its reactor? Please explain.
The problem is that TNG is a different generation of ideas. Similar, but different. In other words refering to TNG, to explain TOS doesn't work.
The next problem, comes from the real world. In Nuclear Reactors, there is no way to access the reactor, due to intense radiation, and what refueling entails, is a real headache. This is why, reactors are being designed so as to not need access to them, ever - they outlast the ship itself.
Now to get to my point. If you look at the Independence Class Armed Freighter, where is its reactor? Please explain.
I don't think the argument was so much a matter of next gen technology. It was a point about where
dilithium is used and how. It is specifically used to manage the matter/antimatter reaction. Unless you can tell me it's somehow mindmelding with the ship from engineering to get to the reaction in the nacelles... I just don't see how that works. Doesn't compute.
Further, real world situation becomes irrelevant given that we're talking about a scifi situation with an established set of parameters. Finally, is the dilithium chamber in the independance class sitting in engineering or in the nacelles? Convince me. I'm not a trekphile. I like star trek and I'm building a model; but, accuracy does matter to me. So, convince me.
The point was that since TNG came out, everybody does it that way.
And using a Nuclear Fission Reactor from the real world, shows just how dangerous nuclear reactions are, let alone anilation reactions...
In other words you need a great deal of shielding, just to protect the crew, and you have to allow for Murphy showing up. As Larry Niven has pointed out, Military systems, have to be able to work, under a varity of condictions - so no civilian sytems that would be a critical area. Meaning no Force Field technology as the primary 'shield'.
These three pages show the inboard profile, the lower engineering deck, and the first level of crew quarters. Note that the five occupant crew quarters, is directly underneath the Dilithium Camber, on the deck above...
The point was that since TNG came out, everybody does it that way.
And using a Nuclear Fission Reactor from the real world, shows just how dangerous nuclear reactions are, let alone anilation reactions...
In other words you need a great deal of shielding, just to protect the crew, and you have to allow for Murphy showing up. As Larry Niven has pointed out, Military systems, have to be able to work, under a varity of condictions - so no civilian sytems that would be a critical area. Meaning no Force Field technology as the primary 'shield'.
These three pages show the inboard profile, the lower engineering deck, and the first level of crew quarters. Note that the five occupant crew quarters, is directly underneath the Dilithium Camber, on the deck above...
Let me save a little time on response and simply ask you a question. Why do you think Doug Drexler drew up the cutaway model of the Jeffries enterprise with a warp core?
Because he didn't pay attention to anything that had been done by Matt Jefferies. The whole point behind Matt Jefferies reasoning was that what ever was happening, in those 'power pods' was dangerous. Very dangerous.
Since this is the starting point - safety concerns, then it makes sense to place that which is dangerous as far away from the crew as possible.
Now as to the Enterprise-D, since nearly a century had passed, it may be, that added safety systems had been invented and perfected, so they might have been able to get away with a reactor, inside the stardrive hull. But for TOS it is far too soon to permit that.
As to Doug Drexler's reasoning in his drawing for the cut away, I have seen nothing to show, that he wasn't going off on his own, into the wilderness so to speak. In other words, he had his ideas, and to heck MJ's... That is, he knew better than MJ. Maybe not a great deal, but enough to do so.
Now as to a problem that I haven't seen addressed any where, is the one of energy loss, in the system. The longer the distance an energy has to be transmitted, the greater the loss rate will be.
This is true for steam lines, and power lines. Also string telephone lines, and through the air power tranmission.
The only way to prevent this, is to have the power source as closee as possible to the place where it is to be used. Peferably zero distance. In other words a compact system, scaled for need.
While it may be true that Mr. Drexler ignored that fact it's a moot argument. In canon we see the warp core not in the nacelles, but the secondary hull. This was shown artistically beginning with TNG. It could be a valid argument that due to evolving technology placement of the warp core changed between TOS and TNG except for one thing...Enterprise. We saw without a doubt during the series run that the core was located within the saucer.
They have main Engineering in the Secondary Hull- located just behind the Hanger Deck. They also have what looks like a warp core located directly under the "Island"- which fits with the dilithum chamber located there. Which means- in their verison- ejecting the warp core would send it out the bottom of the Secondary hull.
Not much headway in the past few days. Been playing around with all options for a core ejection and I'm right back to ejection off the spine. Just don't see any other way to do it. So the spine supports are going to have to be beefed up.
So this is the core in place now. The linkages between the modules still need to be modified; but, the base
ejection mechanism is now in place. The modules will travel perpendicularly to their posture and then be swung
up at 46+ degrees vertical for the final push. This will leave all the modules with a clear shot upward save for the
uppermost module. That said, the attitude they are left in allows for a mechanical "push" out the back and a timed
charge to propel them vertically. It seems workable; so, that's where I am.
Well if I had to take Havoc92 versus Scipubtrek, I'll take Havoc92's, his at least has a great deal of thought behind, even though I disagree with the primary matter-antimatter reactors being any where other than in the nacelles. Tertiary reactors, might be where he says they are.
Well if I had to take Havoc92 versus Scipubtrek, I'll take Havoc92's, his at least has a great deal of thought behind, even though I disagree with the primary matter-antimatter reactors being any where other than in the nacelles. Tertiary reactors, might be where he says they are.
I simply don't think you're getting me or possibly you're confusing the issue by injection of the term "Primary". I never used that term.
The warp core, from my understanding (And I've been backed up on this on other sites) simply takes a focused matter/antimatter reaction and
turns raw plasma into an excited state useable for fuel. From there, the fuel travels to the engine and is consumed by the reaction in the engines.
So, it isn't a matter of primary or secondary reactors. It's a matter of fuel creation vs. fuel consumption. That's why I make the point about the
dilithium.. Dilithium is used to create the proper reaction needed to create the fuel used by the warp engines.
Now, the thing that becomes apparent to me is that when the core is ejected, every care seems to be made to keep the core away from the engines.
So to have the core in the engines seems the height of irresponsibility to me; but, again, I think we're simply speaking past each other to some
extent. And given that this isnt' an actual technology and is rather a theory in future fantasy, that isn't tough to do.
All that said, I can see that I'm going to be forced into being an uber-geek to get this thing built. God help us all. lol
I used the term 'Primary matter-antimatter reactors'. If you have a copy of the MacMaster Bridge Blueprints on hand, in his line of thought, there were primary, and secondary reactors, up in the nacelles.
And the way look at MJ's cross section of the Enterprise-nil while you are at it. There is a possibility that the Dilithium Camber was supposed to be up in the nacelles. While not FJ's interpretation, that small compartment up there is intriging. And never explained so far as I know.
And since you are using for the interior GM's interior, has has the Dilithium chamber near the stern of the nacelle.
This is why I can say that your idea is radical.
Now if you like I can bring in another party's ideas as well, from the Star Trek Space Flight Chronology Copyright 1980. Their idea was that reactor design evolved. In the first generation systems, Gamma wastes could contaminate the life sections, because apparently the matter-antimatter reactor, due to control issues, was located there, in the life support hull. In the second generation, they went to semi independent moduals, that removed this threat - control issues mostly solved. With advanced second generation, there were two full matter-antimatter reactors, one for each completely seperate warp engine. With third generation systems, the ability to make use of 1:1 mater to antimatter systems come on line. And later the introduction of Dilithium to improve power supplies to secondary systems, such as subspace radio, taking it from warp 15 to warp 20 communication speeds.
Fourth generation was the first full up Dilithium Focused power supply. Advanced Fourth Generation brought the matter-antimatter reactors back down to a singles system installed at the base of the secondary hull...
FASA barrowed from this, with out paying attention to what had been written.
I used the term 'Primary matter-antimatter reactors'. If you have a copy of the MacMaster Bridge Blueprints on hand, in his line of thought, there were primary, and secondary reactors, up in the nacelles.
And the way look at MJ's cross section of the Enterprise-nil while you are at it. There is a possibility that the Dilithium Camber was supposed to be up in the nacelles. While not FJ's interpretation, that small compartment up there is intriging. And never explained so far as I know.
And since you are using for the interior GM's interior, has has the Dilithium chamber near the stern of the nacelle.
This is why I can say that your idea is radical.
Now if you like I can bring in another party's ideas as well, from the Star Trek Space Flight Chronology Copyright 1980. Their idea was that reactor design evolved. In the first generation systems, Gamma wastes could contaminate the life sections, because apparently the matter-antimatter reactor, due to control issues, was located there, in the life support hull. In the second generation, they went to semi independent moduals, that removed this threat - control issues mostly solved. With advanced second generation, there were two full matter-antimatter reactors, one for each completely seperate warp engine. With third generation systems, the ability to make use of 1:1 mater to antimatter systems come on line. And later the introduction of Dilithium to improve power supplies to secondary systems, such as subspace radio, taking it from warp 15 to warp 20 communicayion speeds.
Fourth generation was the first full up Dilithium Focused power supply. Advanced Fourth Generation brought the matter-antimatter reactors back down to a singles system installed at the base of the secondary hull...
FASA barrowed from this, with out paying attention to what had been written.
The plans I'm using are Franz Joseph. I only used McMasters for clarification of elements of the bridge layout that FJ wasn't entirely clear on.
I used the fasa plans because I thought they essentially reproduced FJ on a larger sized print, they don't completely so I stopped using them.
Fj shows the dilithium chamber in Engineering. So, unless, again, you can show that chamber does a mind meld to make fuel in the nacelles from engineering, I have to stick with where logic leads plan wise. I appreciate the input. You seem well informed, you just don't overcome the primary issue that I'm working from the plans and the plans say X. I'm not changing the ship internals from what the plans say unless there is no physical way for the 2d to be translated into 3d and make it work. That's my essential approach. I want a ship that is canon according to plan, not a ship of my own design. If I were going for the latter, I'd probably have gone for an interpretation of Drexler's design with modifications.
I also refered to your use of Geoffrey Mandel's Inborad Main Propulsion sheet, in which he has the Dilithium Cystrals just forward of the Space Warp Generator, at the stern of the Warp Engine Nacelle.
Now please reread what I said about Dilithium Cystals in my post above, in the Star Trek Space Flight Chronlogy This is where there comes room for your ideas. If you go back through the book, on those sections on the affect of Dilitium Crystals, you will find that there are comments to the affect that they freed up more power, by making more efficent use of what power was already available for ship serive use, before a full up system was avialable for Fourth Generation Warp Drive.
I also refered to your use of Geoffrey Mandel's Inborad Main Propulsion sheet, in which he has the Dilithium Cystrals just forward of the Space Warp Generator, at the stern of the Warp Engine Nacelle.
Mandel's sheets were used as a guide to flesh out what the interior space should look like for the nacelles. The FJ prints are still the master plan that I'm going by so everything else is subbordinated to them. I mean, this is the FJ enterprise. That's what I've been saying I've been building for the last 2 years. And that's what I intend to finish with. I don't mind artistic license to fill in where he didn't; but, I'm not going to make changes
to the design that aren't called for by the transition from 2d to 3d. Again, I'm not designing my own ship. But, again, thanks
And on to the update:
More progress; but, it feels like I'm crawling here.
The walled in section that holds the core is progressing. I've trimmed it and done a better job centering it to the space. The original unit I crafted from the prints
was too big for the space; so, that's been remedied now. This shows the viewports cut in for diagnostic checks. The window sections aren't in place here.
This view shows the window in place along with the placement of the wiring trunks that have been tied into the lines along the spine of the ship.
And finally an aft view.
The decks now have to be cut to fit the new Core and support structure. And the plasma runs need to be joined to the core. Still a lot of work
to do to get this where I want it. But I'm pleased with the way it's turning out.
I have been thinking. Since FJ gave only a bare minimum idea of what he wanted, I suggest that greater care, must be done. I say this, just after I looked at my copy of the FJ plans. What he has there is a 'piping and wiring trunk line'. But! An "Energy Transmission Disconnect" at the seperation line, on Deck Eight. That is all that can be said, a still have it true to FJ. The size and terminology, of the "Energy Transmission Disconnect" implies a great deal of energy going through it, not generated by it. There is still a great deal of room for thought here. As in "What type of Energy?". Could be electrical - always a problem with high voltage requirements. Or plasma, or steam(very low probablity).
Now that being said. Your idea is still radical. It is radical due to the small size of the overall system( I approve the small size(not that you need this, approval.)). Most other designers have it some sort of massive system. Why should it be massive? The Enterprise -D needed one massive system due to the large size of the overall ship. At least roughly 23 times the size of what one would expect for the FJ plans... Based upon the mass of the ship, not taking into account speed differences. That is a maximum safe crusing of warp factor six versus warp factor 9.2.
Ok, all. I made a hail Mary pass to see if I could get an official response on the Warp core issue. Got it. Someone over at Drexfiles was kind enough to put the question to Doug Drexler for me and pass the answer back. So, here's the answer as I got it:
“Warp core is horizontal under the floor of engineering. Exits out the back.”
This is the approach Drexler used in crafting his cutaway image and this has been officially signed off on by the Trek art dept. So, this is beyond
simply Doug Drexler's late opinion, it's official. I have no idea how it will fit under the floor of my main engineering; so, it may be enough that I have
a Core there at all. Will have to do some serious looking at the plans to see if I can fit it in but I don't think there is clearance to do so with FJ's plans.
We'll see. At any rate, I call that settled with much thanks to all who gave input, especially Nick. The input is always valued no matter how it is
acted upon. Thanks all
Lots of tedious work going on for the last several days.
The structural supports for the Dorsal section are in progress. Behind that, you can see the modified inner and outer
dorsal skins with newly cut windows. With the amount of odd geometry involved, these were cut in using the slice tool
rather than booleaning them out. I did a rough pass at using boolean operations on this; but, Wow....
Here's another shot showing the work to seam the dorsal structure up to the structural supports for the lower hull.
This did involve Booleans. Sucked; but, it worked out ok with two days worth of work on both structures at this point.
As I've already noted the word on this forum from Mr. Drexler, I'll take this space to simply repeat my public and private
thanks to Drex for taking time out of his busy schedule to chime in and help settle the issue of the warp core. Much appreciated.
It would be easier if he was refering to a warp core being in the nacelle... The Bevatron could do the job... Just change the name. Or show that the is more to it, than what is shown by Geofrey Mandel.
Now another problem.
How much power does the primary hull need? You have Hotel functions. That is, crew support requirements. Then you have ship support requirements - those functions that occur internally to the ship(primary hull) that don't involve the crew directly, but don't affect the outside. The Duotronic computer for example. External functions include the search sensors require power, but how much? In both passive and active modes. What about the ship's labs? Sickbay? Transporters?
Some of these aren't always on. Therfore for the most part won't be needed all the time - See Star Fleet Dynamics.
Then what about the Second hull, and the main long range sensors? How much power do they take? Forget FASA. It is a nice start, but that is all that it is. Too much was done to make the game more interesting for younger plaers. Truth being told, you want the ship to be as unintesting as possible. From the point of view of drama. If this were a real world ship. Excitment isn't good.
Yeah. I kept envisioning looking up at this thing from ground level - laying in mud ans swamp water and leaning to one side with moss
and vines dangling from it. What better to explore than an old shipwreck.
Yeah. I kept envisioning looking up at this thing from ground level - laying in mud ans swamp water and leaning to one side with moss
and vines dangling from it. What better to explore than an old shipwreck.
That could be like years into the future were travel everywhere is instantaneous. Some explorers find it in a big ol' swamp like you described. After discovering it's origin, they could fix and clean it up. Then they make it rise out of the swamp, sort of like a rebirth.
Your right to an opinion does not make your opinion valid.
That could be like years into the future were travel everywhere is instantaneous. Some explorers find it in a big ol' swamp like you described. After discovering it's origin, they could fix and clean it up. Then they make it rise out of the swamp, sort of like a rebirth.
Kinda makes me wonder what people in a steampunk situation would do with her in terms of trying to repair her. Old school trying to figure out new school...
Here's a pic of the newly cutin windows on the dorsal.. meant to post this last night; but, ..
It will require great care to do right, one of the big disappointments back around 1990, was I realized that most ST novels written could be summed up by the phrase "Kirk saves the Universe!":rolleyes: More than a bit over done.
The latest.. Been under the weather for a few days and got back in the saddle this afternoon for a bit..
These aren't final. I needed to do something a little different to change things up a bit. So, I decided to start by playing with some furniture.
The chairs are based on the drawings in the Tech manual. After reviewing some screencaps, I'm a little cheesed that they differ from what's in
the show; but..
The tables were slapped together in about 15 minutes. The res needs bumped a little here and there; but, otherwise I was quite pleased with them.
Posts
Ok, I got what I felt was two conflicting stories on this early on. I ended up initally favoring what you just said.. until
"dilithium crystal articulation frame
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Episode: TNG 195 - Drumhead, The
Component of the warp drive system of a starship that holds the dilithium crystals suspended in the drive's matter/antimatter stream, where the crystals can regulate the matter/antimatter reaction."
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/dilithium-crystal-articulation-frame
If one looks at FJ's sheet 7, there in all it's glory is the dilithium containment chamber as seen in the series. It would be easier just to have a
power uplink in that position. It's simpler to model, eats fewer polys and gives me fewer headaches. But you don't have a dilithium chamber in
main engineering without a matter/antimatter stream for it to manage. Thus, a warp core is called for.
I can't find a way around the logic. Especially since some real trek geeks browbeat me about it and I couldn't counter the argument. I brought up the argument about reactors in the nacelles too. This was immediately
shot down. And I couldn't argue that point either. The nacelles cannot be accessed with the main engines online.
This argues completely against reactors in the nacelles in that sense. So, I had to overturn my initial decision and
go with this. And, yes, the change is recent.
The next problem, comes from the real world. In Nuclear Reactors, there is no way to access the reactor, due to intense radiation, and what refueling entails, is a real headache. This is why, reactors are being designed so as to not need access to them, ever - they outlast the ship itself.
Now to get to my point. If you look at the Independence Class Armed Freighter, where is its reactor? Please explain.
I don't think the argument was so much a matter of next gen technology. It was a point about where
dilithium is used and how. It is specifically used to manage the matter/antimatter reaction. Unless you can tell me it's somehow mindmelding with the ship from engineering to get to the reaction in the nacelles... I just don't see how that works. Doesn't compute.
Further, real world situation becomes irrelevant given that we're talking about a scifi situation with an established set of parameters. Finally, is the dilithium chamber in the independance class sitting in engineering or in the nacelles? Convince me. I'm not a trekphile. I like star trek and I'm building a model; but, accuracy does matter to me. So, convince me.
And using a Nuclear Fission Reactor from the real world, shows just how dangerous nuclear reactions are, let alone anilation reactions...
In other words you need a great deal of shielding, just to protect the crew, and you have to allow for Murphy showing up. As Larry Niven has pointed out, Military systems, have to be able to work, under a varity of condictions - so no civilian sytems that would be a critical area. Meaning no Force Field technology as the primary 'shield'.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-independence-ncc-f1300-sheet-5.jpg
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-independence-ncc-f1300-sheet-8.jpg
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-independence-ncc-f1300-sheet-9.jpg
These three pages show the inboard profile, the lower engineering deck, and the first level of crew quarters. Note that the five occupant crew quarters, is directly underneath the Dilithium Camber, on the deck above...
Let me save a little time on response and simply ask you a question. Why do you think Doug Drexler drew up the cutaway model of the Jeffries enterprise with a warp core?
Since this is the starting point - safety concerns, then it makes sense to place that which is dangerous as far away from the crew as possible.
Now as to the Enterprise-D, since nearly a century had passed, it may be, that added safety systems had been invented and perfected, so they might have been able to get away with a reactor, inside the stardrive hull. But for TOS it is far too soon to permit that.
As to Doug Drexler's reasoning in his drawing for the cut away, I have seen nothing to show, that he wasn't going off on his own, into the wilderness so to speak. In other words, he had his ideas, and to heck MJ's... That is, he knew better than MJ. Maybe not a great deal, but enough to do so.
Now as to a problem that I haven't seen addressed any where, is the one of energy loss, in the system. The longer the distance an energy has to be transmitted, the greater the loss rate will be.
This is true for steam lines, and power lines. Also string telephone lines, and through the air power tranmission.
The only way to prevent this, is to have the power source as closee as possible to the place where it is to be used. Peferably zero distance. In other words a compact system, scaled for need.
http://www.scipubtech.net/1701.php
They have main Engineering in the Secondary Hull- located just behind the Hanger Deck. They also have what looks like a warp core located directly under the "Island"- which fits with the dilithum chamber located there. Which means- in their verison- ejecting the warp core would send it out the bottom of the Secondary hull.
So this is the core in place now. The linkages between the modules still need to be modified; but, the base
ejection mechanism is now in place. The modules will travel perpendicularly to their posture and then be swung
up at 46+ degrees vertical for the final push. This will leave all the modules with a clear shot upward save for the
uppermost module. That said, the attitude they are left in allows for a mechanical "push" out the back and a timed
charge to propel them vertically. It seems workable; so, that's where I am.
I simply don't think you're getting me or possibly you're confusing the issue by injection of the term "Primary". I never used that term.
The warp core, from my understanding (And I've been backed up on this on other sites) simply takes a focused matter/antimatter reaction and
turns raw plasma into an excited state useable for fuel. From there, the fuel travels to the engine and is consumed by the reaction in the engines.
So, it isn't a matter of primary or secondary reactors. It's a matter of fuel creation vs. fuel consumption. That's why I make the point about the
dilithium.. Dilithium is used to create the proper reaction needed to create the fuel used by the warp engines.
Now, the thing that becomes apparent to me is that when the core is ejected, every care seems to be made to keep the core away from the engines.
So to have the core in the engines seems the height of irresponsibility to me; but, again, I think we're simply speaking past each other to some
extent. And given that this isnt' an actual technology and is rather a theory in future fantasy, that isn't tough to do.
All that said, I can see that I'm going to be forced into being an uber-geek to get this thing built. God help us all. lol
And the way look at MJ's cross section of the Enterprise-nil while you are at it. There is a possibility that the Dilithium Camber was supposed to be up in the nacelles. While not FJ's interpretation, that small compartment up there is intriging. And never explained so far as I know.
And since you are using for the interior GM's interior, has has the Dilithium chamber near the stern of the nacelle.
This is why I can say that your idea is radical.
Now if you like I can bring in another party's ideas as well, from the Star Trek Space Flight Chronology Copyright 1980. Their idea was that reactor design evolved. In the first generation systems, Gamma wastes could contaminate the life sections, because apparently the matter-antimatter reactor, due to control issues, was located there, in the life support hull. In the second generation, they went to semi independent moduals, that removed this threat - control issues mostly solved. With advanced second generation, there were two full matter-antimatter reactors, one for each completely seperate warp engine. With third generation systems, the ability to make use of 1:1 mater to antimatter systems come on line. And later the introduction of Dilithium to improve power supplies to secondary systems, such as subspace radio, taking it from warp 15 to warp 20 communication speeds.
Fourth generation was the first full up Dilithium Focused power supply. Advanced Fourth Generation brought the matter-antimatter reactors back down to a singles system installed at the base of the secondary hull...
FASA barrowed from this, with out paying attention to what had been written.
The plans I'm using are Franz Joseph. I only used McMasters for clarification of elements of the bridge layout that FJ wasn't entirely clear on.
I used the fasa plans because I thought they essentially reproduced FJ on a larger sized print, they don't completely so I stopped using them.
Fj shows the dilithium chamber in Engineering. So, unless, again, you can show that chamber does a mind meld to make fuel in the nacelles from engineering, I have to stick with where logic leads plan wise. I appreciate the input. You seem well informed, you just don't overcome the primary issue that I'm working from the plans and the plans say X. I'm not changing the ship internals from what the plans say unless there is no physical way for the 2d to be translated into 3d and make it work. That's my essential approach. I want a ship that is canon according to plan, not a ship of my own design. If I were going for the latter, I'd probably have gone for an interpretation of Drexler's design with modifications.
Now please reread what I said about Dilithium Cystals in my post above, in the Star Trek Space Flight Chronlogy This is where there comes room for your ideas. If you go back through the book, on those sections on the affect of Dilitium Crystals, you will find that there are comments to the affect that they freed up more power, by making more efficent use of what power was already available for ship serive use, before a full up system was avialable for Fourth Generation Warp Drive.
Now that being said. Your idea is still radical. It is radical due to the small size of the overall system( I approve the small size(not that you need this, approval.)). Most other designers have it some sort of massive system. Why should it be massive? The Enterprise -D needed one massive system due to the large size of the overall ship. At least roughly 23 times the size of what one would expect for the FJ plans... Based upon the mass of the ship, not taking into account speed differences. That is a maximum safe crusing of warp factor six versus warp factor 9.2.
“Warp core is horizontal under the floor of engineering. Exits out the back.”
This is the approach Drexler used in crafting his cutaway image and this has been officially signed off on by the Trek art dept. So, this is beyond
simply Doug Drexler's late opinion, it's official. I have no idea how it will fit under the floor of my main engineering; so, it may be enough that I have
a Core there at all. Will have to do some serious looking at the plans to see if I can fit it in but I don't think there is clearance to do so with FJ's plans.
We'll see. At any rate, I call that settled with much thanks to all who gave input, especially Nick. The input is always valued no matter how it is
acted upon. Thanks all
The structural supports for the Dorsal section are in progress. Behind that, you can see the modified inner and outer
dorsal skins with newly cut windows. With the amount of odd geometry involved, these were cut in using the slice tool
rather than booleaning them out. I did a rough pass at using boolean operations on this; but, Wow....
Here's another shot showing the work to seam the dorsal structure up to the structural supports for the lower hull.
This did involve Booleans. Sucked; but, it worked out ok with two days worth of work on both structures at this point.
As I've already noted the word on this forum from Mr. Drexler, I'll take this space to simply repeat my public and private
thanks to Drex for taking time out of his busy schedule to chime in and help settle the issue of the warp core. Much appreciated.
Off to bed folks. More to come.
Radical is not always in the wrong.
I am thinking about Doug Drexler's comment.
It would be easier if he was refering to a warp core being in the nacelle... The Bevatron could do the job... Just change the name. Or show that the is more to it, than what is shown by Geofrey Mandel.
Now another problem.
How much power does the primary hull need? You have Hotel functions. That is, crew support requirements. Then you have ship support requirements - those functions that occur internally to the ship(primary hull) that don't involve the crew directly, but don't affect the outside. The Duotronic computer for example. External functions include the search sensors require power, but how much? In both passive and active modes. What about the ship's labs? Sickbay? Transporters?
Some of these aren't always on. Therfore for the most part won't be needed all the time - See Star Fleet Dynamics.
Then what about the Second hull, and the main long range sensors? How much power do they take? Forget FASA. It is a nice start, but that is all that it is. Too much was done to make the game more interesting for younger plaers. Truth being told, you want the ship to be as unintesting as possible. From the point of view of drama. If this were a real world ship. Excitment isn't good.
There's a little left to do to finish it up yet; but, I should be finished with this tonight.
Yeah. I kept envisioning looking up at this thing from ground level - laying in mud ans swamp water and leaning to one side with moss
and vines dangling from it. What better to explore than an old shipwreck.
That could be like years into the future were travel everywhere is instantaneous. Some explorers find it in a big ol' swamp like you described. After discovering it's origin, they could fix and clean it up. Then they make it rise out of the swamp, sort of like a rebirth.
Kinda makes me wonder what people in a steampunk situation would do with her in terms of trying to repair her. Old school trying to figure out new school...
Here's a pic of the newly cutin windows on the dorsal.. meant to post this last night; but, ..
1. I'm glad I'm not crazy enough to model the old girl at this level of detail.
2. I'm glad you are that crazy, this effort is a real labor of love, and it shows! Stunning!
Sounds like the start of a great story...
It will require great care to do right, one of the big disappointments back around 1990, was I realized that most ST novels written could be summed up by the phrase "Kirk saves the Universe!":rolleyes: More than a bit over done.
These aren't final. I needed to do something a little different to change things up a bit. So, I decided to start by playing with some furniture.
The chairs are based on the drawings in the Tech manual. After reviewing some screencaps, I'm a little cheesed that they differ from what's in
the show; but..
The tables were slapped together in about 15 minutes. The res needs bumped a little here and there; but, otherwise I was quite pleased with them.