I had an idea that modeling this with real world geometry would reveal flaws in the structure. I would think the nacelle pylons descend through the entire hull, instead of just attaching to the upper surface, as depicted by everything we've seen drawn.
But of course, structural integrity fields are supposed to account for alot... too much, if you ask me. What if they run out of power? Cant have a ship tearing itself apart by its own mass...
The problem I see is that FJ noted the bulkheads on several of the decks without considering the impact they'd actually have in a 3d world. If I
built the bulkheads to plan for the nacelle pylons, there'd be no way to access the jeffries tube leading through the pylon. The plans also don't show the structural round wall for the shuttlebay cutting into the same deck causing that odd floor problem; but, that is the result of following his plans to
spec.
Now, I'll preface what I'm about to say by saying I'm not an engineer. That said, I do understand a little of how things are built, reinforced and why.
It's helpful having a calc and physics background to that end. But, this beast is assembled like a hybrid between an airplane and a building. In an airplain, you have a main wing spar that is the essential spine of the craft. If that fails, it doesn't matter what else doesn't. That's kindof how I envision the assembly of the nacelle support pylon structure.
Now, all that said, I wholly agree with your summarization of the integrity field problem. I never envisioned the integrity fields to be more than an
emergency measure.
The problem I see is that FJ noted the bulkheads on several of the decks without considering the impact they'd actually have in a 3d world. If I
built the bulkheads to plan for the nacelle pylons, there'd be no way to access the jeffries tube leading through the pylon. The plans also don't show the structural round wall for the shuttlebay cutting into the same deck causing that odd floor problem; but, that is the result of following his plans to
spec.
Now, I'll preface what I'm about to say by saying I'm not an engineer. That said, I do understand a little of how things are built, reinforced and why.
It's helpful having a calc and physics background to that end. But, this beast is assembled like a hybrid between an airplane and a building. In an airplain, you have a main wing spar that is the essential spine of the craft. If that fails, it doesn't matter what else doesn't. That's kindof how I envision the assembly of the nacelle support pylon structure.
That's a bit of the point in all of those TOS-era specifications: Back then, fans were a lot less picky than we are now (but picky none the less), and more importantly, fewer fans were aspiring MIT-level engineers with access to powerful computers they carry with them all of the time. So that could explain a lot of the detail-frenzy going on here.
Obviously, in the old 1701 (and its deck plans), you got some serious technical flaws when it comes to an engineering POV. As you said, when you try to squeeze in the shuttle bay on the engineering hull, you would get into serious trouble with the engine pylons. Not to mention, the schematics give absolutely no mention of "supporting" hardware and plumbing, such as (anti)matter lines, wiring, air/environmnental ducts and EPS couplings.
Especially the power conduits are supposed to be MASSIVE, as that's the only thing that should be going up to the engine nacelles, transporting the vast amounts of power required for high warp. Back in the 60s and 70s, nobody really gave it a thought and figured "Hey, we still have some plasma lines we need to put somewhere. How about cutting some gaps...". Back then, most fans couldn't even figure out what a plasma conduit was, let alone what it should look like. The more technical side of Trek only came when Okuda and Bormanis joined the club for TNG.
Now, all that said, I wholly agree with your summarization of the integrity field problem. I never envisioned the integrity fields to be more than an emergency measure.
My advice: Take TOS (at least the series variant) tech with a big grain of salt. You'll find references and technological bits scattered all over the series that make absolutely no sense to us now when viewed in 2010. The TOS movies got it a lot better, from TWOK down it was more aimed at the technical side and things looked more like they could actually work. The show that got that right most of the time to date, is Enterprise.
That's a bit of the point in all of those TOS-era specifications: Back then, fans were a lot less picky than we are now (but picky none the less), and more importantly, fewer fans were aspiring MIT-level engineers with access to powerful computers they carry with them all of the time. So that could explain a lot of the detail-frenzy going on here.
Obviously, in the old 1701 (and its deck plans), you got some serious technical flaws when it comes to an engineering POV. As you said, when you try to squeeze in the shuttle bay on the engineering hull, you would get into serious trouble with the engine pylons. Not to mention, the schematics give absolutely no mention of "supporting" hardware and plumbing, such as (anti)matter lines, wiring, air/environmnental ducts and EPS couplings.
Especially the power conduits are supposed to be MASSIVE, as that's the only thing that should be going up to the engine nacelles, transporting the vast amounts of power required for high warp. Back in the 60s and 70s, nobody really gave it a thought and figured "Hey, we still have some plasma lines we need to put somewhere. How about cutting some gaps...". Back then, most fans couldn't even figure out what a plasma conduit was, let alone what it should look like. The more technical side of Trek only came when Okuda and Bormanis joined the club for TNG.
My advice: Take TOS (at least the series variant) tech with a big grain of salt. You'll find references and technological bits scattered all over the series that make absolutely no sense to us now when viewed in 2010. The TOS movies got it a lot better, from TWOK down it was more aimed at the technical side and things looked more like they could actually work. The show that got that right most of the time to date, is Enterprise.
Well, I was about to post a little taste of the day to show what will be following; and it once again illustrates this very point.
Update:
Early start this morning. Here's the result of last night's venturing into building some of the ship's structural spars. Lots of work for this small amount; but, worth it.
..ok, so the two black spars wrapping around there are the structural support bulkheads that the nacelle pylons mount to.
I bookended the space with doorways as this is the jeffries acessway and is supposed to be readily accessible. Once fleshed out,
it's clear it doesn't work. So, I'm going to be fiddling with this a lot to work around it.
Two days worth of work to the hanger deck has produced some good changes. I've been reworking deck 16 aft in order to better define the space around the jeffries tube access and flesh out something more structurally sound. Perfect? No. but workable, yes.
I reworked the round innter wall and cut it down to a 2 inch thickness backed by metallic supports. There's no need to have an outer wall on the upper section; so I cut it out and will be able to work the inner structure better above the hanger bay.
Here's another angle on things.
Part of reworking deck 16 has included nudging the outer edge of the floor into the hull skins in order to better get a feel for
the limits. The rework of deck 17 earlier allowed me to trim the floor thickness of deck 16 to where it really should be. None
of the floors, eventually, will exceed a 2 inch uniform thickness. The support between floor and ceilings is 12 inches of structure bracing. That hasn't put in and largely won't be seen in the low poly model; so, it probably won't much be seen here. In the hanger bay area, more of this will show through; but, forward, not so much.
This is a little better view of how tight a squeeze it is to get to the jeffries access point right now. Getting better. But for
the moment, I don't think it's practiacally workable. More to come
Ah, the spiral into detail madness continues! And I think I may be dragged into the vortex, too.
I feel the urge to model the old Connie along these lines, starting from the space-frame up... the ships structural skeleton first, then the decks and systemic conduits, etc...
But maybe I'll just stick with the skeleton, as an engineering design study and hand it off to whoever wants to play with it... amazing progress on this, man!
Ah, the spiral into detail madness continues! And I think I may be dragged into the vortex, too.
I feel the urge to model the old Connie along these lines, starting from the space-frame up... the ships structural skeleton first, then the decks and systemic conduits, etc...
But maybe I'll just stick with the skeleton, as an engineering design study and hand it off to whoever wants to play with it... amazing progress on this, man!
Thanks. Vortex is an appropriate word. It's getting just a tad overwhelming at this point. I always have about ten instanced bits floating about along with a lot of remnants that I have to keep cleaning out. I export everything just in case I need it for any reason at all. But, wow is it getting
cluttered lol
I knew this project would become maddening for you sooner or later. I love looking at Franz Joseph's blueprints for the Constitution Class. The work he put into them (especially the overheads of every single deck) is simply amazing, but they lose all integrity when attempting to build the ship in a 3D environment. There is almost no structural support for load bearing areas like the dorsal/saucer connection or the warp pylons. And don't even get me started with how the ship could possibly hold itself together at high impulse speeds. Deflector grids, shields, and structural integrity fields just aren't enough to explain away serious design flaws. I don't care what century it is or what kind of exotic sci-fi metal compounds people come up with; the ship simply must have a strong, thick skeletal frame with additional reenforcement in load bearing areas or it would never survive the rigors of deep space exploration.
All of this, though, does not discount the really amazing work you're doing here. FJ's plans have have major flaws, but this project is looking great. I sincerely hope you can finish it with going completely insane.
I knew this project would become maddening for you sooner or later. I love looking at Franz Joseph's blueprints for the Constitution Class. The work he put into them (especially the overheads of every single deck) is simply amazing, but they lose all integrity when attempting to build the ship in a 3D environment. There is almost no structural support for load bearing areas like the dorsal/saucer connection or the warp pylons. And don't even get me started with how the ship could possibly hold itself together at high impulse speeds. Deflector grids, shields, and structural integrity fields just aren't enough to explain away serious design flaws. I don't care what century it is or what kind of exotic sci-fi metal compounds people come up with; the ship simply must have a strong, thick skeletal frame with additional reenforcement in load bearing areas or it would never survive the rigors of deep space exploration.
All of this, though, does not discount the really amazing work you're doing here. FJ's plans have have major flaws, but this project is looking great. I sincerely hope you can finish it with going completely insane.
Thank you and yeah, I think I've gotten there. And what many said in the early months has been born out. Short of some really amazing composites
and polymers, I think she would tear herself apart sneazing at sublight. That said, I think the plans can be made workable; but, it would require
growing the volume of the ship by a bit to allow for more structure. And that's something I seriously looked at over the past several days.
I looked carefully at the outer hull and whether I could grow the outer volume in certain areas while retaining the shape. But the fit is so snug to spec, I don't know how I could get away with it. That said, I've left the plans behind a couple of times in order to make certain spaces workable.
So, she's not strictly 'by the book'. If she were, there are some areas that simply wouldn't be accessable. So, the quandry is, once again, where
do I leave the plans and how far off that path can I get and still say, 'by the book'. Also, If I threw it to the wind and grew the skin volume, we'd now be talking about months of rework.
She's close to being finished at this point. Close being a relative term; but... If I were doing this on my own gut instincts, I think I'd have to
join others in saying things like "shrink the shuttlebay" and "park main engineering near the shuttlebay." I think I'd also decrease the number of
2 person occupancy rooms and put several large barracks areas in instead. This will give a lot of people the chance, though, to see her as close to by the book as possible. And that's all I really wanted to do when I started this. Probably should have pulled a team together to do it though lol.
I have a 3D model of the Constitution based on Franz Joseph's blueprints which I reworked into one of my many Enterprise variants. It came with a complete shuttlebay made to his specs and the first thing I did was rebuild the bay from scratch so the back wall didn't pass through the area where the warp pylons connect with the secondary hull. Shortening the bay still left plenty of room for at least three shuttlecraft with space left over for mechanics and attendants to do their work. The model of my version of the shuttlebay is available in the "Star Trek" Downloads area on this site.
The way I see it, Main Engineering is located just a bit forward on the same deck as the shuttlebay, not in the aft section of the saucer, where FJ placed it. Of course, the location of Main Engineering has been a subject of debate between Trek fans for decades; so no matter where you put it someone is likely to disagree. To put it all in a nutshell, I think you're safe with using some creative license where problems crop up. Remember, Kirk showed some very creative twists on going "by the book" in TWOK. I humbly suggest that you can do the same.
I have a 3D model of the Constitution based on Franz Joseph's blueprints which I reworked into one of my many Enterprise variants. It came with a complete shuttlebay made to his specs and the first thing I did was rebuild the bay from scratch so the back wall didn't pass through the area where the warp pylons connect with the secondary hull. Shortening the bay still left plenty of room for at least three shuttlecraft with space left over for mechanics and attendants to do their work. The model of my version of the shuttlebay is available in the "Star Trek" Downloads area on this site.
The way I see it, Main Engineering is located just a bit forward on the same deck as the shuttlebay, not in the aft section of the saucer, where FJ placed it. Of course, the location of Main Engineering has been a subject of debate between Trek fans for decades; so no matter where you put it someone is likely to disagree. To put it all in a nutshell, I think you're safe with using some creative license where problems crop up. Remember, Kirk showed some very creative twists on going "by the book" in TWOK. I humbly suggest that you can do the same.
Yeah, I have no problem with taking a little artistic license in getting things done. If not for that, I'd probably have done a 1:1 serenity by now.
Who knows lol.
There is one out on this. The FJ plans are of the Constitution- the class ship. She was the prototype, the one everything was tried and tested on. Chances are that some changes were made between her and the Enterprise- and between Enterprise and the rest of the class. So when someone says that a model is "by the book", the question to ask is "Which book?" I think you have plenty of room to make changes and still be "Fleet Offical".
Thank you and yeah, I think I've gotten there. And what many said in the early months has been born out. Short of some really amazing composites
and polymers, I think she would tear herself apart sneazing at sublight. That said, I think the plans can be made workable; but, it would require
growing the volume of the ship by a bit to allow for more structure. And that's something I seriously looked at over the past several days.
I looked carefully at the outer hull and whether I could grow the outer volume in certain areas while retaining the shape. But the fit is so snug to spec, I don't know how I could get away with it. That said, I've left the plans behind a couple of times in order to make certain spaces workable.
So, she's not strictly 'by the book'. If she were, there are some areas that simply wouldn't be accessable. So, the quandry is, once again, where
do I leave the plans and how far off that path can I get and still say, 'by the book'. Also, If I threw it to the wind and grew the skin volume, we'd now be talking about months of rework.
She's close to being finished at this point. Close being a relative term; but... If I were doing this on my own gut instincts, I think I'd have to
join others in saying things like "shrink the shuttlebay" and "park main engineering near the shuttlebay." I think I'd also decrease the number of
2 person occupancy rooms and put several large barracks areas in instead. This will give a lot of people the chance, though, to see her as close to by the book as possible. And that's all I really wanted to do when I started this. Probably should have pulled a team together to do it though lol.
There is one out on this. The FJ plans are of the Constitution- the class ship. She was the prototype, the one everything was tried and tested on. Chances are that some changes were made between her and the Enterprise- and between Enterprise and the rest of the class. So when someone says that a model is "by the book", the question to ask is "Which book?" I think you have plenty of room to make changes and still be "Fleet Offical".
Yeah, I had considered that view. And I have to say it does hold weight with me. So, I'm not feeling too bad about the changes I've had to make. Just a little frustrating when one has to make them.
Ok, big update today. I've been quiet for the last several days; but, that isn't to say idle.. lol
So we'll start with a pretty shot
And the more technical..
I wasn't entirely happy with the reworked floors for the decks; so, I redid what was there. The forward sections of the split decks are finished; but, the shuttlebay aft sections still need split down. What you see is that the floors are now seperated into floor and ceiling sections so that I can more easily deal with the individual levels. And with the extra polys it still represents a 30-40 percent reduction in poly count for the decks completed. I'm now happy.
You can see here that the decks no longer protrude through the outer hull at the floor level. I used slice plane to cut the shapes of the decks from the hull skins. The floors as a result have quite a snug fit now.
You could see the ribbing in the first two shots above; but, here you can see sortof an anatomy shot of how they were made. Not complete as yet; but, progress
And back to the shuttlebay . I've kept multiple sections going to break the tedium. some of
this work is just flat repetitious boring hell; but, each has it's problems to solve; so, when I get burnt on one section, I
move to another and keep going. That and I do a lot of render passes to keep me happy.
and the wireframe..
Here we have yet another problem pretty well solved IMHO.
The passageway has widened a tad bit. I dropped the door access and went for a crawlway access to the section.
I also took a section of the nacelle pylon outer skin and did some boolean work to get an idea of how much overhead space could be gained by pushing a recess up into that area. it doesn't lend a lot of space, but the venture only cost a little time and gave me some new options that I may employ later. We'll see.
Finally, a semi-transparent view of the same section. I still have some tweaking to do and decisions to make about the walls; but, nothing major. From here, I think this deck can be wound up with some detailing later. The next step is to finish splitting the floors down, then finish putting in the supports for the upper wall area. I'll be cutting down other decks as well to keep a rotation going.
It's been a restful but productive vacation. Almost over, sadly. Oh well. Back to work.
..heading off to work; but, here's the latest. All of the shuttlebay has now been trimmed. the decks down to 21 are done. Walls in the upper forward sections still need trimmed; but, the floors and lifts are all finished. Deck 22 is in progress and about 50 percent completed. The secondary hull should be complete for trimming in two days tops. Things are moving a little quicker now as the decks are getting smaller.
The primary hull work should begin in a few days and then detailing passes can begin.
Now THIS project is what I had in mind when I started my own Enterprise WIP... but just didn't get my thoughts together to actually consider doing what you are. I feel stupid now.
You have inspired me to return to my own Enterprise and take an approach more similar to yours.
Always on a quest for a more honest Enterprise depiction, and this is how you do it.
Now THIS project is what I had in mind when I started my own Enterprise WIP... but just didn't get my thoughts together to actually consider doing what you are. I feel stupid now.
You have inspired me to return to my own Enterprise and take an approach more similar to yours.
Always on a quest for a more honest Enterprise depiction, and this is how you do it.
Fantastic job!
Thank you!
And to save some posting space, the latest update:
Ok, as usual, I'm up against it on time; so, I'm doing this in a hurry.
This is just a shot of the attempt to sew up the secondary hull geometry with the dorsal section.. finally. Deck 14 is something I almost missed before going back to the saucer section. I kinda
wish I had missed it for the headache; but, it's done.
So, here are some shots to celebrate the completion of the trim pass on the secondary hull.
.. see that. SM- ooth. Been dying to see that. No projecting interior walls.
.. well, gotta get this all cross posted and all. More to come
Reading the descriptions of the pics and updates is the world's WORST tease for me. I can't see any of the update pics because here in Afghanistan, access to image hosting sites is prohibited. So very frustrating.
Nah. But if some kind soul could post the pics here on the SFM servers, that'd be great. I don't have access to the net on my personal laptop and would probably find it difficult to explain to my superiors why I'm using govt HD space for 3D wip pics.
I haven't done a project overview type update in a long while, so, here goes:
Polycount: 579,477
..The polycount has now been cut more than in half even with additions to the geometry in terms of making
floor and ceilings seperate pieces and adding some beginnings of structural support beams.
Decks 14 dorsal and decks 15-24 in the secondary hull are now complete for the cleanup pass.
The Shuttlebay has been cut free and stands alone.
Engineering is it's own section now.
And the primary hull decks 8-11 are all now complete.
This looks amazing! The images of the transparent outer hull really bring the ship to life since you can see the placement of everything inside. They also go a long way toward showing how big the ship is. It looks great and I'm interested in seeing how far you'll take the details such as doorways, the ladders that run between decks, furniture, etc.
I CAN'T SEE THE PICS! For the love of all that is good and gracious in this world, would somebody PLEASE repost the pics on the SFM servers so that I can view them? Pretty please, with a cherry on top?
Off the charts awesome, man. Can you put the old girl into a game engine? How smokin' would it be to explore the ship and interact with its systems? I'd buy that.... my own fully functioning starship! It might be time to hit Paramount up for licensing...
I CAN'T SEE THE PICS! For the love of all that is good and gracious in this world, would somebody PLEASE repost the pics on the SFM servers so that I can view them? Pretty please, with a cherry on top?
The pics come up fine for me, and when clicked they go directly to the larger versions posted at Photobucket. You may want to check your browser settings. That may be what's keeping you from seeing them.
The pics come up fine for me, and when clicked they go directly to the larger versions posted at Photobucket. You may want to check your browser settings. That may be what's keeping you from seeing them.
The problem is that where he is deployed most sites are blocked on government computers.
The problem is that where he is deployed most sites are blocked on government computers.
Ah. I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for letting me know, Juvat. Sorry you can't see the pics, NightShadow. Thank you for your service and please stay safe.
i can't even type. All I can do is just stare at these pictures. Damn....
Yeah, I'm kinda fond of that last batch myself. With all the work that has gone into this, those pics are one of the biggest surprises for me to date.
I can't stop looking at them even now. At any rate... on to the update:
Took a few days off and went to Kentucky. But, I've otherwise been working on deck 7.. trying to figure out what to do with it in terms of seperating the parts of it. It's been a very long process. I'm not done yet; but, here's where that stands:
Decks 6 & 7 are the two largest in the ship; so, this may yet take a while; but, there isn't far left to go after this. The inner walls and outer skins once again have been seperated (huge headache where this deck is concerned esp.), the floor and ceiling sections have been seperated as well. The engineering section is being chopped free as this section has already been worked. The poly count for this deck increased. I expected that; but, I'm not done.
Posts
The problem I see is that FJ noted the bulkheads on several of the decks without considering the impact they'd actually have in a 3d world. If I
built the bulkheads to plan for the nacelle pylons, there'd be no way to access the jeffries tube leading through the pylon. The plans also don't show the structural round wall for the shuttlebay cutting into the same deck causing that odd floor problem; but, that is the result of following his plans to
spec.
Now, I'll preface what I'm about to say by saying I'm not an engineer. That said, I do understand a little of how things are built, reinforced and why.
It's helpful having a calc and physics background to that end. But, this beast is assembled like a hybrid between an airplane and a building. In an airplain, you have a main wing spar that is the essential spine of the craft. If that fails, it doesn't matter what else doesn't. That's kindof how I envision the assembly of the nacelle support pylon structure.
Now, all that said, I wholly agree with your summarization of the integrity field problem. I never envisioned the integrity fields to be more than an
emergency measure.
That's a bit of the point in all of those TOS-era specifications: Back then, fans were a lot less picky than we are now (but picky none the less), and more importantly, fewer fans were aspiring MIT-level engineers with access to powerful computers they carry with them all of the time. So that could explain a lot of the detail-frenzy going on here.
Obviously, in the old 1701 (and its deck plans), you got some serious technical flaws when it comes to an engineering POV. As you said, when you try to squeeze in the shuttle bay on the engineering hull, you would get into serious trouble with the engine pylons. Not to mention, the schematics give absolutely no mention of "supporting" hardware and plumbing, such as (anti)matter lines, wiring, air/environmnental ducts and EPS couplings.
Especially the power conduits are supposed to be MASSIVE, as that's the only thing that should be going up to the engine nacelles, transporting the vast amounts of power required for high warp. Back in the 60s and 70s, nobody really gave it a thought and figured "Hey, we still have some plasma lines we need to put somewhere. How about cutting some gaps...". Back then, most fans couldn't even figure out what a plasma conduit was, let alone what it should look like. The more technical side of Trek only came when Okuda and Bormanis joined the club for TNG.
My advice: Take TOS (at least the series variant) tech with a big grain of salt. You'll find references and technological bits scattered all over the series that make absolutely no sense to us now when viewed in 2010. The TOS movies got it a lot better, from TWOK down it was more aimed at the technical side and things looked more like they could actually work. The show that got that right most of the time to date, is Enterprise.
Well, I was about to post a little taste of the day to show what will be following; and it once again illustrates this very point.
Update:
Early start this morning. Here's the result of last night's venturing into building some of the ship's structural spars. Lots of work for this small amount; but, worth it.
..ok, so the two black spars wrapping around there are the structural support bulkheads that the nacelle pylons mount to.
I bookended the space with doorways as this is the jeffries acessway and is supposed to be readily accessible. Once fleshed out,
it's clear it doesn't work. So, I'm going to be fiddling with this a lot to work around it.
I reworked the round innter wall and cut it down to a 2 inch thickness backed by metallic supports. There's no need to have an outer wall on the upper section; so I cut it out and will be able to work the inner structure better above the hanger bay.
Here's another angle on things.
Part of reworking deck 16 has included nudging the outer edge of the floor into the hull skins in order to better get a feel for
the limits. The rework of deck 17 earlier allowed me to trim the floor thickness of deck 16 to where it really should be. None
of the floors, eventually, will exceed a 2 inch uniform thickness. The support between floor and ceilings is 12 inches of structure bracing. That hasn't put in and largely won't be seen in the low poly model; so, it probably won't much be seen here. In the hanger bay area, more of this will show through; but, forward, not so much.
This is a little better view of how tight a squeeze it is to get to the jeffries access point right now. Getting better. But for
the moment, I don't think it's practiacally workable. More to come
I feel the urge to model the old Connie along these lines, starting from the space-frame up... the ships structural skeleton first, then the decks and systemic conduits, etc...
But maybe I'll just stick with the skeleton, as an engineering design study and hand it off to whoever wants to play with it... amazing progress on this, man!
Thanks. Vortex is an appropriate word. It's getting just a tad overwhelming at this point. I always have about ten instanced bits floating about along with a lot of remnants that I have to keep cleaning out. I export everything just in case I need it for any reason at all. But, wow is it getting
cluttered lol
All of this, though, does not discount the really amazing work you're doing here. FJ's plans have have major flaws, but this project is looking great. I sincerely hope you can finish it with going completely insane.
Thank you and yeah, I think I've gotten there. And what many said in the early months has been born out. Short of some really amazing composites
and polymers, I think she would tear herself apart sneazing at sublight. That said, I think the plans can be made workable; but, it would require
growing the volume of the ship by a bit to allow for more structure. And that's something I seriously looked at over the past several days.
I looked carefully at the outer hull and whether I could grow the outer volume in certain areas while retaining the shape. But the fit is so snug to spec, I don't know how I could get away with it. That said, I've left the plans behind a couple of times in order to make certain spaces workable.
So, she's not strictly 'by the book'. If she were, there are some areas that simply wouldn't be accessable. So, the quandry is, once again, where
do I leave the plans and how far off that path can I get and still say, 'by the book'. Also, If I threw it to the wind and grew the skin volume, we'd now be talking about months of rework.
She's close to being finished at this point. Close being a relative term; but... If I were doing this on my own gut instincts, I think I'd have to
join others in saying things like "shrink the shuttlebay" and "park main engineering near the shuttlebay." I think I'd also decrease the number of
2 person occupancy rooms and put several large barracks areas in instead. This will give a lot of people the chance, though, to see her as close to by the book as possible. And that's all I really wanted to do when I started this. Probably should have pulled a team together to do it though lol.
The way I see it, Main Engineering is located just a bit forward on the same deck as the shuttlebay, not in the aft section of the saucer, where FJ placed it. Of course, the location of Main Engineering has been a subject of debate between Trek fans for decades; so no matter where you put it someone is likely to disagree. To put it all in a nutshell, I think you're safe with using some creative license where problems crop up. Remember, Kirk showed some very creative twists on going "by the book" in TWOK. I humbly suggest that you can do the same.
Yeah, I have no problem with taking a little artistic license in getting things done. If not for that, I'd probably have done a 1:1 serenity by now.
Who knows lol.
Yeah, I had considered that view. And I have to say it does hold weight with me. So, I'm not feeling too bad about the changes I've had to make.
So we'll start with a pretty shot
And the more technical..
I wasn't entirely happy with the reworked floors for the decks; so, I redid what was there. The forward sections of the split decks are finished; but, the shuttlebay aft sections still need split down. What you see is that the floors are now seperated into floor and ceiling sections so that I can more easily deal with the individual levels. And with the extra polys it still represents a 30-40 percent reduction in poly count for the decks completed. I'm now happy.
You can see here that the decks no longer protrude through the outer hull at the floor level. I used slice plane to cut the shapes of the decks from the hull skins. The floors as a result have quite a snug fit now.
You could see the ribbing in the first two shots above; but, here you can see sortof an anatomy shot of how they were made. Not complete as yet; but, progress
And back to the shuttlebay . I've kept multiple sections going to break the tedium. some of
this work is just flat repetitious boring hell; but, each has it's problems to solve; so, when I get burnt on one section, I
move to another and keep going. That and I do a lot of render passes to keep me happy.
and the wireframe..
Here we have yet another problem pretty well solved IMHO.
The passageway has widened a tad bit. I dropped the door access and went for a crawlway access to the section.
I also took a section of the nacelle pylon outer skin and did some boolean work to get an idea of how much overhead space could be gained by pushing a recess up into that area. it doesn't lend a lot of space, but the venture only cost a little time and gave me some new options that I may employ later. We'll see.
Finally, a semi-transparent view of the same section. I still have some tweaking to do and decisions to make about the walls; but, nothing major. From here, I think this deck can be wound up with some detailing later. The next step is to finish splitting the floors down, then finish putting in the supports for the upper wall area. I'll be cutting down other decks as well to keep a rotation going.
It's been a restful but productive vacation. Almost over, sadly. Oh well. Back to work.
..heading off to work; but, here's the latest. All of the shuttlebay has now been trimmed. the decks down to 21 are done. Walls in the upper forward sections still need trimmed; but, the floors and lifts are all finished. Deck 22 is in progress and about 50 percent completed. The secondary hull should be complete for trimming in two days tops. Things are moving a little quicker now as the decks are getting smaller.
The primary hull work should begin in a few days and then detailing passes can begin.
Off to work.
You have inspired me to return to my own Enterprise and take an approach more similar to yours.
Always on a quest for a more honest Enterprise depiction, and this is how you do it.
Fantastic job!
Thank you!
And to save some posting space, the latest update:
Ok, as usual, I'm up against it on time; so, I'm doing this in a hurry.
This is just a shot of the attempt to sew up the secondary hull geometry with the dorsal section.. finally. Deck 14 is something I almost missed before going back to the saucer section. I kinda
wish I had missed it for the headache; but, it's done.
So, here are some shots to celebrate the completion of the trim pass on the secondary hull.
.. see that. SM- ooth. Been dying to see that. No projecting interior walls.
.. well, gotta get this all cross posted and all. More to come
Polycount: 579,477
..The polycount has now been cut more than in half even with additions to the geometry in terms of making
floor and ceilings seperate pieces and adding some beginnings of structural support beams.
Decks 14 dorsal and decks 15-24 in the secondary hull are now complete for the cleanup pass.
The Shuttlebay has been cut free and stands alone.
Engineering is it's own section now.
And the primary hull decks 8-11 are all now complete.
Breathe.
More to come
The pics come up fine for me, and when clicked they go directly to the larger versions posted at Photobucket. You may want to check your browser settings. That may be what's keeping you from seeing them.
The problem is that where he is deployed most sites are blocked on government computers.
Ah. I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for letting me know, Juvat. Sorry you can't see the pics, NightShadow. Thank you for your service and please stay safe.
Yeah, I'm kinda fond of that last batch myself. With all the work that has gone into this, those pics are one of the biggest surprises for me to date.
I can't stop looking at them even now. At any rate... on to the update:
Took a few days off and went to Kentucky. But, I've otherwise been working on deck 7.. trying to figure out what to do with it in terms of seperating the parts of it. It's been a very long process. I'm not done yet; but, here's where that stands:
Decks 6 & 7 are the two largest in the ship; so, this may yet take a while; but, there isn't far left to go after this. The inner walls and outer skins once again have been seperated (huge headache where this deck is concerned esp.), the floor and ceiling sections have been seperated as well. The engineering section is being chopped free as this section has already been worked. The poly count for this deck increased. I expected that; but, I'm not done.
More to come.