That's not bad when some scene files in Poser can run as high as 400MB. I know- I've had some.
It'll get worse as the detailing begins. How bad, I don't know. But, I'll probably have to upgrade my computer and the version of max that I have before it's done. At the point when I was looking at 1.2 million polys, it was generating some serious lag in max when moving within the scene file. Even at 600k, the scene file takes forever to save out now.
I'm currently working on Deck 6. The work on 7 was quite a bit more tedious than I'd imagined; but, the outer and inner hull skins weren't spun up on the same number of segments; so, that made it more .. interesting. Nearly bald now. lol. Been taking breaks doing some C coding work to keep my sanity. Still moving.
I'm currently working on Deck 6. The work on 7 was quite a bit more tedious than I'd imagined; but, the outer and inner hull skins weren't spun up on the same number of segments; so, that made it more .. interesting. Nearly bald now. lol. Been taking breaks doing some C coding work to keep my sanity. Still moving.
Glad to hear it, It'd been so long, I was starting to wonder if something had happened.
Glad to hear it, It'd been so long, I was starting to wonder if something had happened.
Yeah, it was just taking forever. The undersides of the walls all had to be sealed and the sheer number of verts involved .. Deck 6 will be just as bad when I get to that point. Almost there; but, not looking forward to it. The upside is I only have to do it once.
This shows the cutting down of deck 6 underway. The floor has been cut free, then seperated into the actual deck 6 floor and deck 7 ceiling. The outer skin wall has been removed and will be seperated into outer/inner skins. The walls are seperated out as well and the turbolifts are a seperate item still. All have been trimmed further as the process continues and the polycount
thusly continues to fall even with the addition of new items into the mix.
Deck 6 is at this point about 50 percent completed. The image doesn't show a lot, thus the reason I haven't been posting very much of late. The work right now as I've said before is just
sheer tedium. There isn't a real change in any of the geometry other than getting rid of geometry that isn't needed. The structure remains largely unchanged.
Astonishing undertaking. What level of detail will this have when you get down into the corridors and rooms themselves?
Well, I'm kindof pushing for everything and the kitchen sink. Plumbing, ductwork, wiring trunks, the raw girder support structure, etc. How much will make it into the game engines will be up to how much I can physically stuff into them before crashing them.
I have watched you over the previous months working on this. I am quite interested. I saw on the TrekBBS, that you had calculated the volumes of the impulse power units, as shown mounted. Have you by any chance done the same for the water tankage? But there is something else, I realized quite recently, plumbing(This applies to all ships) For standard sized pipes, that mus be all over the ship, I am wondering if their total volume, both clean, and dirty water, allows for sufficent water for all immediate needs. Any thoughs on this?
And now for a comment about FJ.
I think he did a fantastic job, for his daughter, on his work. He took what he knew must be there, and worked it out, as best he could.
I have watched you over the previous months working on this. I am quite interested. I saw on the TrekBBS, that you had calculated the volumes of the impulse power units, as shown mounted. Have you by any chance done the same for the water tankage? But there is something else, I realized quite recently, plumbing(This applies to all ships) For standard sized pipes, that mus be all over the ship, I am wondering if their total volume, both clean, and dirty water, allows for sufficent water for all immediate needs. Any thoughs on this?
I think you may be confusing me with another artist over there. I don't recall giving volume measurements on the impulse drives anywhere. That said, I have a calculus background and could probably work that up based on plots from the build. I don't know, however, that it's entirely useful to
what I'm doing. On a rough guess, I'd say there's no more than a weeks worth of water on board in case of an emergency situation (without strict
rationing). And there would be no more than a few days worth of water under normal running conditions for a crew of 400+.
The thing to keep in mind is that the ship would be using matter recyclers just as with the food preparation systems. So, you're not looking at a
traditional desalination operation by any means. And the scrubbing process is always running as part of the environmental subsystems. If not for that, the entire ship would be an unrealistic waste.
As to FJ, yeah. I give him crap now and then out of frustration; but, I generally will follow it by saying that he did a good job for his time. There
were no computers back then on which he could do realistic 3d work to check his 2d plans. Given that they still set the imagination running for
people in this day and age says something with regard to what he accomplished. So, while I grumble, he still did a good job overall. Better than
90 percent of the ship is fumble free in my estimation. Not bad. Possible it could use more room for structural support. On the other hand, it can
be argued that the metals are advanced enough that this might not be the case. You can do things today with smaller volumes of titanium or
carbon fibre than you could with steal and in some cases you can do things not possible with the latter.
Or use nanotechnology - it is supposed to be 100 times stronger for a given material, except carbon, which I understand is 250 times stronger. Then again most of the ship's strength might be in the design of the hull. With the additional frames being only added security. Then one must remember the air pressure inside, think in terms of a balloon...
Then remember something else.
The ship is supposed to with stand repeated warp eight flight speeds over its design life. This tells us several things. The first, among them, exactly what stresses the hull under goes. Which can be converted to real numbers. Which would in theory tell about the actual strength of the warp field(which may be substituted for a magnetic field) This is true due to the designs used in the later STs of warp field coils. But might, just might start off a whole new line of thought.
This line of though can be extended to the FJ series impulse engines of his Technical manual...
By the way, I must strongly disagree with those who desire to place the warp reactor, inside the engineering hull, itself. MJ put the nacelles out away from the ship for a reason, which would be defeated by having the waro reactor down inside the engineering hull.
Inertial damping and structural integrity fields keep her together at warp and impulse speeds. If it were just the space frame she'd fly apart in an instant, scattering the atoms of her and the crew across parsecs.
It's really just the nacelles that create a small, shaped bubble of subspace (warping our space), the collapse of our space is what shoots them off faster than light, and anything attached to the nacelles. It takes alot of energy to do that, hence the antimatter reactor.
The shape and size of the warp determine the speed, and steer the ship.
Think of subspace as a slippery watermelon seed and our space as your thumb and finger squeezing down on it to shoot it off.
Thanks to the s.i. field, a starship can have interesting geometry that would survive a trans-light barrier flight. Otherwise, all starships would look more like boring old rocketships, as only symmetrical mass would stand a chance of holding together... like the Phoenix. (Those nacelles should have torn off and left the missile behind, no integrity fields as far as I know, in Zef's time)
JW, have you heard the latest talk on Magnetism vs. Gravity? Apparently the understanding of Gravity has lept forward and as a result of experiments in magnetism.
This is an unlisted video. You can't find it by searching, ok. Now, if I can remember the particulars..
Take two high powered electromagnets and harmonically ballance their output at a ratio of 10:9.
Balance their physical properties on a fibonacci scale at 1:1.618.. Then at the midpoint of the field
flow and away from the core magnets, align a reciever grid which pulls in the thrown radio waves
and recycles them back into the fields. Result apparently = antigravity drive with near zero point
energy capacity. I don't know how accurate the information is; but, apparently it's been tested on
small scale and possibly otherwise.
Seems to not only deal with gravity; but, allows for the overcoming of mass/energy issues for travel.
What the guy there has done is to take the design of cropcircles with specific heat, radiological and
Magnetic properties and reverse engineer the footprint of the fields found to exist on location and
apply them to the design of the circles themselves. What you see is what I described and others came
to on their own.
Again, don't know how accurate the information is. I think the guy spreading it right now named Sereda
is a bit eccentric; but, also quite intelligent. Interesting stuff. And it seems that, if true, it once again
lends credence to faster than light travel. Food for thought.
Inertial damping and structural integrity fields keep her together at warp and impulse speeds. If it were just the space frame she'd fly apart in an instant, scattering the atoms of her and the crew across parsecs.
It's really just the nacelles that create a small, shaped bubble of subspace (warping our space), the collapse of our space is what shoots them off faster than light, and anything attached to the nacelles. It takes alot of energy to do that, hence the antimatter reactor.
The shape and size of the warp determine the speed, and steer the ship.
Think of subspace as a slippery watermelon seed and our space as your thumb and finger squeezing down on it to shoot it off.
Thanks to the s.i. field, a starship can have interesting geometry that would survive a trans-light barrier flight. Otherwise, all starships would look more like boring old rocketships, as only symmetrical mass would stand a chance of holding together... like the Phoenix. (Those nacelles should have torn off and left the missile behind, no integrity fields as far as I know, in Zef's time)
As always, amazing work on this!
Inertial dampening works only inside a given example. And requires some sort of transmitter, inside, but outside of the zone of effect, the best design for this, would be a phased array, under computer control. A side issue, you don't want stray radiation emittions to give away your location to possible hostile parties, this means tight control over the fields, which is where computer control comes in.
As far as structual integrity fields, we don't know that they were present, for sure, I don't think the creators thought that far ahead, but let us take it as a given. Or should we?
The problem is, what happens at warp eight? We are told point point, that the ship's structure can't take it. That it is not designed to, for long. This implies, some sort of brute force solution instead. The middle ground is that structual integrity fields do exist, but aren't considered in the calculations, this implies that there is some sort of problem with them, which might means a safety concern, rather than a purely technological one.
Now for Havoc92's posting.
It may be such that in the early days of starflight, that fancy self protection wasn't required, due to this, with time they found out other wise. In other words the nature of the warp drive is such that, within the 'bubble', under most conditions, one doesn't have to worry too much about such things. But there are times one does. Romulan War? Warp speed combat with a Klingon ship? In other words the need for a high performace system would be readily plain.
Five decks. You've already put the lower hull through your cleaning process?
Yeppers. Started on deck 5 before I posted here; so, that's about to change to 4 decks. I'm not counting the dorsal section though.
The decks of the dorsal section can be done in a matter of a few hours; so, ...
Just about time to start detailing and texturing. Can't wait.
Yeppers. Started on deck 5 before I posted here; so, that's about to change to 4 decks. I'm not counting the dorsal section though.
The decks of the dorsal section can be done in a matter of a few hours; so, ...
Just about time to start detailing and texturing. Can't wait.
Here are shots of the completed work on deck 5. Lots of complicated geometry. It's been simplified now. Still a little work to do in seaming up the ceiling for deck 6 as part of it had to be cut from the deck 5 floor and from the outer hull ring; but, minor stuff at this point by comparison.
And when you are done with this, could you go and do the Independence Class Armed Freighter? Since that "ship" is only supposed to be 82.05 metters long, she won't have the most of the problems with personal time. Further more please show both works in the same scale, as well as independent scales to each other.
And when you are done with this, could you go and do the Independence Class Armed Freighter? Since that "ship" is only supposed to be 82.05 metters long, she won't have the most of the problems with personal time. Further more please show both works in the same scale, as well as independent scales to each other.
Posts
Polycount currently for the whole model is just under 600k.
That's not bad when some scene files in Poser can run as high as 400MB. I know- I've had some.
It'll get worse as the detailing begins. How bad, I don't know. But, I'll probably have to upgrade my computer and the version of max that I have before it's done. At the point when I was looking at 1.2 million polys, it was generating some serious lag in max when moving within the scene file. Even at 600k, the scene file takes forever to save out now.
Glad to hear it, It'd been so long, I was starting to wonder if something had happened.
of course my laptop wouldn't of been to handle it...
Yeah, it was just taking forever. The undersides of the walls all had to be sealed and the sheer number of verts involved .. Deck 6 will be just as bad when I get to that point. Almost there; but, not looking forward to it. The upside is I only have to do it once.
This shows the cutting down of deck 6 underway. The floor has been cut free, then seperated into the actual deck 6 floor and deck 7 ceiling. The outer skin wall has been removed and will be seperated into outer/inner skins. The walls are seperated out as well and the turbolifts are a seperate item still. All have been trimmed further as the process continues and the polycount
thusly continues to fall even with the addition of new items into the mix.
Deck 6 is at this point about 50 percent completed. The image doesn't show a lot, thus the reason I haven't been posting very much of late. The work right now as I've said before is just
sheer tedium. There isn't a real change in any of the geometry other than getting rid of geometry that isn't needed. The structure remains largely unchanged.
More to come.
Various Work: U.S.S. Constellation - Matt Jefferies Concept Shuttle
Well, I'm kindof pushing for everything and the kitchen sink. Plumbing, ductwork, wiring trunks, the raw girder support structure, etc. How much will make it into the game engines will be up to how much I can physically stuff into them before crashing them.
And now for a comment about FJ.
I think he did a fantastic job, for his daughter, on his work. He took what he knew must be there, and worked it out, as best he could.
Then remember something else.
The ship is supposed to with stand repeated warp eight flight speeds over its design life. This tells us several things. The first, among them, exactly what stresses the hull under goes. Which can be converted to real numbers. Which would in theory tell about the actual strength of the warp field(which may be substituted for a magnetic field) This is true due to the designs used in the later STs of warp field coils. But might, just might start off a whole new line of thought.
This line of though can be extended to the FJ series impulse engines of his Technical manual...
By the way, I must strongly disagree with those who desire to place the warp reactor, inside the engineering hull, itself. MJ put the nacelles out away from the ship for a reason, which would be defeated by having the waro reactor down inside the engineering hull.
It's really just the nacelles that create a small, shaped bubble of subspace (warping our space), the collapse of our space is what shoots them off faster than light, and anything attached to the nacelles. It takes alot of energy to do that, hence the antimatter reactor.
The shape and size of the warp determine the speed, and steer the ship.
Think of subspace as a slippery watermelon seed and our space as your thumb and finger squeezing down on it to shoot it off.
Thanks to the s.i. field, a starship can have interesting geometry that would survive a trans-light barrier flight. Otherwise, all starships would look more like boring old rocketships, as only symmetrical mass would stand a chance of holding together... like the Phoenix. (Those nacelles should have torn off and left the missile behind, no integrity fields as far as I know, in Zef's time)
As always, amazing work on this!
Here's something to tweak your SF mind a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XDFT0Yv_hg
This is an unlisted video. You can't find it by searching, ok. Now, if I can remember the particulars..
Take two high powered electromagnets and harmonically ballance their output at a ratio of 10:9.
Balance their physical properties on a fibonacci scale at 1:1.618.. Then at the midpoint of the field
flow and away from the core magnets, align a reciever grid which pulls in the thrown radio waves
and recycles them back into the fields. Result apparently = antigravity drive with near zero point
energy capacity. I don't know how accurate the information is; but, apparently it's been tested on
small scale and possibly otherwise.
Seems to not only deal with gravity; but, allows for the overcoming of mass/energy issues for travel.
What the guy there has done is to take the design of cropcircles with specific heat, radiological and
Magnetic properties and reverse engineer the footprint of the fields found to exist on location and
apply them to the design of the circles themselves. What you see is what I described and others came
to on their own.
Again, don't know how accurate the information is. I think the guy spreading it right now named Sereda
is a bit eccentric; but, also quite intelligent. Interesting stuff. And it seems that, if true, it once again
lends credence to faster than light travel. Food for thought.
Thanks for the good word, once again.
Inertial dampening works only inside a given example. And requires some sort of transmitter, inside, but outside of the zone of effect, the best design for this, would be a phased array, under computer control. A side issue, you don't want stray radiation emittions to give away your location to possible hostile parties, this means tight control over the fields, which is where computer control comes in.
As far as structual integrity fields, we don't know that they were present, for sure, I don't think the creators thought that far ahead, but let us take it as a given. Or should we?
The problem is, what happens at warp eight? We are told point point, that the ship's structure can't take it. That it is not designed to, for long. This implies, some sort of brute force solution instead. The middle ground is that structual integrity fields do exist, but aren't considered in the calculations, this implies that there is some sort of problem with them, which might means a safety concern, rather than a purely technological one.
Now for Havoc92's posting.
It may be such that in the early days of starflight, that fancy self protection wasn't required, due to this, with time they found out other wise. In other words the nature of the warp drive is such that, within the 'bubble', under most conditions, one doesn't have to worry too much about such things. But there are times one does. Romulan War? Warp speed combat with a Klingon ship? In other words the need for a high performace system would be readily plain.
Here's the deck assembled
wireframe...
and rendered exploded views.
Five decks to go.
Yeppers. Started on deck 5 before I posted here; so, that's about to change to 4 decks. I'm not counting the dorsal section though.
The decks of the dorsal section can be done in a matter of a few hours; so, ...
Just about time to start detailing and texturing. Can't wait.
That's great news. Can't wait to see the result.
..wireframe
..30 percent transparency render.
Deck 4 work has already begun.
After this will be a mod, then a long rest lol.
wireframe..
30 percent transparency render.
Work on deck 3 will begin in the morning.
The rest is expected...
Okay rest is over with.;) It was after all .87 of a second.;);):cool:
Realistically I don't expect any thing done for a couple of months...