I thought the episode was very entertaining. A bit fast paced, and a lot happening at the same time, but still good. I also liked that they are touching on some subjects that were never really explored in previous Trek.
Half hour Trek can, unfortunately, suffer from pacing issues. There are definitely episodes of TAS that have that issue. Star Trek was meant to be (at least) an hour, in my opinion.
I'm going to take a look at it after at least a couple more episodes drop. I don't like this weekly release schedule, I very much prefer how Netflix and Amazon Prime drop entire seasons at once. (Hulu may do that too)
I have been looking round the web at reviews for the first show.
Stayed away from the YouTube channels as I know they after those trailers and TV spots they are not going to like it. (Hell even after I saw them I am thinking great another crappy show from Kurtzman.)
So I have been looking at proper news outlet and not sites like IGN, they will say a turd on the pavement is the best thing since slice bread. Just so they can keep their access.
No, I been looking at trusted news site. (Well as trusted you as you can throw them. But most of the time they won't shill for the studios just to keep access. Their they are such a well know news organisation, that givens them that.)
There are some reviews that give positive things to say, but they all say the same thing. The show is just not funny and to many refences to classic Trek.
As for me, if I am going to make up my own mind. I guess, I will have take up Captain Jack offer and take to the high seas, as there is no sign of when it will become available here.
Yup they needed to cut down on all the name drops and referencing of older trek stuff, just is too try hard. Need to stick to the visual tie ins like the op credits.
Sadly it looks more trek than anything since ENT was canceled.
As for the show itself, well it fits the mold of what the studio has done before. Characters were a bit better than expected but still molded off the trope fulled PC types all over today. But it was only 24min of show so dunno.
It was on amazon but through the stupid cbs rental thing. And yeah everyone else I know is dling it even if they have access or the "channel" on amazon.
Seriously, it was on the same level as the Short Trek episode "The Trouble With Edward." Mainly unlikable characters, dumb writing that was trying to be funny and a whole host of other issues. The jokes that many people didn't laugh at in the previews are how the whole episode was written. I think the animation may have been the best part. (the music was OK too) I'm kind of hoping it will get better as the season progresses, but the season preview that was shown at the end of the episode didn't leave me with much hope.
So, I signed back up for CBS All Access to watch it, despite saying that I was going to wait for a few more episodes. It's only $5.99/month added onto my Prime membership, so it's not like it's going to kill my budget or anything. I will say, CBS All Access has actually gotten better. They have more shows than ever on there and they finally did something that I've said all along they needed to do: They've put movies on there. They've got some stuff on there I haven't seen in a while, like the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers and War of the Worlds. (I may watch those tonight) Plus, some stuff I've never seen before and might want to watch. So, at least they're improving the service. Now they need to take it international so that people in other countries can watch Star Trek and other stuff on there. Then they won't have to worry about partnering with services like Netflix or Prime.
Seriously, it was on the same level as the Short Trek episode "The Trouble With Edward." Mainly unlikable characters, dumb writing that was trying to be funny and a whole host of other issues. The jokes that many people didn't laugh at in the previews are how the whole episode was written. I think the animation may have been the best part. (the music was OK too) I'm kind of hoping it will get better as the season progresses, but the season preview that was shown at the end of the episode didn't leave me with much hope.
Again, it's so weird going to different places and seeing the different reactions. Most of the folks on Discord liked it. Same for a couple of other places I go to. But then here and on youtube it seems to be all negative views most of the time. Just odd.
I just didn't like it. I'm not going to sit here and dwell on what I thought was wrong with it or anything like that, but it just didn't suit my personal tastes. I'll try a couple more episodes and if I don't feel it's any better, I'll stop watching it. I'm hoping it just got off to a rocky start and I'll like it more as it goes. I try not to judge a show by its pilot. Pilots aren't always indicative of how the rest of the show will be.
YouTube isn't a good gauge for how good anything is. I see so much negativity on there in the comments section on so many videos. Though, there are plenty of people who don't comment on YouTube at all. I'm one of them. If I like a vid, it gets a thumbs up. I'm not going to comment on something then get called an idiot by someone just because I disagree with their point of view (happened more than once, back when I used to comment.) The YouTube comment section isn't moderated very well, (maybe not at all) so social graces go out the window there. I remember when they put the season 2 premiere of Discovery on there. I watched it and quite enjoyed it. (I really like Discovery, I own both seasons) The video had a fair number of likes, and of course a lot of dislikes too. But, the comments section was nothing but "This isn't Star Trek" and "That's the worst thing I've ever seen." **shrugs** You can't win them all.
Edit: While I'm on CBSAA, I think I'll watch Picard again. I didn't like it as well as Discovery, but I'll give it another look.
I liked the first episode of Lower Decks. The visual style is absolutely gorgeous and the attention to detail in the design of the ships and interiors and environments is stunning. The jokes were a bit hit and miss but it's only the first episode. To me the strangest thing is, that despite the irreverent tone, it feels closer to a real Star Trek production than anything Trek related has felt for the last 20 years. It wasn't brilliant, it was fair to good, but I just far prefer it to the deliberately obtuse Discovery and Picard.
There are of course inevitable comparisons to The Orville (or as I prefer tho call it, The Boreville) but I honestly think a Star Trek comedy works better in the Star Trek universe than it does in The Orville's off-brand clone thereof.
I managed to get my hands on a copy.
I have to say, I did not hate it, but I did not love it. As for the jokes, well none of them landed, I did not find any funny. Why, because I have seen it all before and done better. There was nothing new and these sort of joke don't work with Trek.
The humour in Trek that works is situational humour. We Don't laugh at the characters but with them.
They also missed out one of the biggest running jokes, that could have run though
the whole season. These peeps, are lower decks. So the running Joke would be that they miss out on all the action, do not have clue what was going on and was only told by one of their shipmates that did get involved.
I mean the guy who was on a date, could have been trying to take her places, The Bar, Holodeck etc for the date and could not get in due to it being quarantine. He has no idea why everything is being quarantine. That would have been funny, but instead all this crazy crap is going on around them and they still doing the date and it only ends because he is more interested in an error and she not. Not funny!!
Also having the lower deck crew being part of the landing party was a mistake. They should be the last to go on away missions. But then that would have killed the whole story, so I can let it pass.
I could go on more about the bad joke. But I won't
So what did I like, it looked and felt like classic trek. Though the animation is not that great, Rick and Morty and Final Space both use the same style and look better. Personally I would have gone with an anime style (Akira, Ninja Scroll hell even Tank Police not Pokémon), but that would have cost them more.
I can see why people are calling it Rick and Morty does Star Trek.
One thing that does bothers me though is the main female lead, she Michel Burnham 2.0 the best at everything.
One last thing, enough with the name drops and refences, they are fine in small dosses. But there was way to many. Hopefully that will be toned down and the series goes on. But given the trailer it does not look like it.
Okay that sound like I hated it, but I don't it got a lot of potential to be good.
They fumbled the ball with the start, but they still pick up and get it over the line.
Only time will tell.
@Wishbone_Ash You don't like The Orville?
Have you seen season 2. They dropped most of the jokes and became more TNG, but still retaining the fun.
The Orville started out as a parody of Trek, just like Galaxy Quest was, but with the second season it started to do it own thing. It still has trek parody in it and that will never change, but it is doing it own thing.
I just didn't like it. I'm not going to sit here and dwell on what I thought was wrong with it or anything like that, but it just didn't suit my personal tastes.
Please note, I wasn't judging your opinion. Just making a general observation that different communities seem to have different tastes
I mean the guy who was on a date, could have been trying to take her places, The Bar, Holodeck etc for the date and could not get in due to it being quarantine. He has no idea why everything is being quarantine. That would have been funny, but instead all this crazy crap is going on around them and they still doing the date and it only ends because he is more interested in an error and she not. Not funny!!
I actually thought that was very funny. They are Nerds. Sometimes our priorities are different
One thing that does bothers me though is the main female lead, she Michel Burnham 2.0 the best at everything.
Eh, while I do have that complaint about Burnham, there's a big difference in how it's handled in both shows. Burnham always does this speech, everyone cries, hug and then agree with her. Mariner is highly competent, but due to her own personal issues, ends up screwing things up with the upper ranks. That's way more believable to me.
One last thing, enough with the name drops and refences, they are fine in small dosses. But there was way to many. Hopefully that will be toned down and the series goes on. But given the trailer it does not look like it.
I think this was because it was the first episode, and they wanted to establish things. I don't anticipate every episode will do that many references, although it is pretty clear they want to poke fun at some things in old shows. I don't really have a problem with it.
I actually thought the part where their date ended because he was worried about the door thing not working and she wasn't was one of the better bits. I wouldn't say it was laugh out loud funny, but I didn't mind it so much. I can actually picture beloved characters like Scotty, LaForge, Torres or even Wesley having a reaction like that. There's something wrong with the ship, so all other things get pushed back in the brain to focus on that. Also, you can tell from her reaction that he and Tendi have a lot in common, possibly hinting at a relationship later down the line.
I really don't get what the problem is with Burnham. She's no more "right all the time" than Spock ever was. Or Data. She's not perfect by any means, she actually makes a lot of mistakes through the course of the first two seasons of Discovery. People go along with her because she's a natural leader. Georgiou saw that about her, that's why she wanted to promote her. I think the main problem people have with her is that the show is about her. It's not about a group of officers like most Star Trek shows are, it's about her. Yes, there are others who help her along the way, some like Saru, Stamets and Tilly contribute a lot to the problem solving, but she's the focus. But, we were told that from the beginning of development for the show, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
But, back to this show, Mariner definitely isn't a Burnham. She's someone who had a decent career going until she did something wrong and got demoted and "shuffled away" to the lower decks of an "unimportant" Starfleet ship. She's not going to have her ideas listened to because she's considered unimportant. That's the whole point of this show, it focuses on a group of young officers who are considered unimportant. But, they're our "heroes," which is why the senior officers are portrayed as being glory hound d-bags.
I really don't get what the problem is with Burnham. She's no more "right all the time" than Spock ever was. Or Data. She's not perfect by any means, she actually makes a lot of mistakes through the course of the first two seasons of Discovery. People go along with her because she's a natural leader. Georgiou saw that about her, that's why she wanted to promote her. I think the main problem people have with her is that the show is about her. It's not about a group of officers like most Star Trek shows are, it's about her. Yes, there are others who help her along the way, some like Saru, Stamets and Tilly contribute a lot to the problem solving, but she's the focus. But, we were told that from the beginning of development for the show, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
I get all that. I think the problem is the way they choose to write her. As I said, when there's a decision to be made, it's always an emotional scene which kinda makes the whole thing look like a soap opera. The second half of season 2 was especially bad at this. I know she had to leave, but jesus, we don't need a speech or everyone crying every other scene.
Yeah, Burnham isn't the best Star Trek character for sure. I feel she's a sign of the times we live in, though. A lot of show producers these days seem to feel the need to have a much higher level of emotional drama than 20+ years ago. As far as Discovery goes, I actually don't mind Burnham, but I like some of the supporting cast better. Saru (played by the incomparable Doug Jones) is a fantastic character with a great story arc, especially in the second season. I also like Stamets a lot. He seems like a cocky d-bag at first, but I think that was a combination of being frustrated with his experiment not working and having to work under Lorca. Tilly can get annoying, but she has some great moments too. Of course, Pike is fantastic and I quite like Spock on the show too. I'm looking forward to the upcoming show with those two and Number One. So, yeah, Burnham isn't bad, but I think the show has better characters.
I did manage to see it before they pulled the video, and I liked what I saw. Sure it had too many things going on at once (like A, B, C and maybe even D plot), but I'm guessing it'll get more focused once we know who everyone is. I liked the characters personally. I'm not much of a Star Trek fan, and have mostly just watched TOS and TNG, so the whole thing has always been a little silly to me, so I enjoy the genre savvy tropes and archetypes and the makers clearly enjoy and are very familiar with the source material.
Then again, I think TNG_S8 was the best thing ever, so I'm probably an easy target.
Yeah, it's still up in the United States. Clearly, it's really just an advert to get people to sign up for CBSAA. Currently, 1.2k likes and 416 dislikes with over 302k views. So, yeah. Not really a whole lot of people watching it and about 3/4 of the people who rated it like it.
Personally, I'm done with the show. I watched episode 2 this morning and it's not my cup of tea. So, I feel no desire to continue watching.
Well, I loved it. Cleanly animated, fun characters, nice music and general sound production...
Aesthetically it shows just how absolutely terrible the art, set design and production direction has been on recent Star Trek (someone needs to tell these teams that set lighting has options between "all" and "nothing").
Well I now seen the second episode.
Surprisingly, I actually liked this one more than the first.
However saying that, there was a lot to disliked about too.
I hated everything to do with the two main characters, and the girl is really coming across as a Mary-Sue. That storyline really sucked and the only thing they got right was the Klingon. A Klingon that actually looks and acted like a Klingon too.
But what I did like, was everything to do with Cyborg Engineer guy. I though that storyline was really good and I did have a chuckle when he went to Command and doing the simulations, where he blows up the ship killing 105% of the crew and he is confused on how killed more than the crew.
It was also good to see each department head wish him luck as he moved from one department to the next instead of berate him.
The only thing I disliked about this story was how they ended it. I think it would have been better he went we green girl instead heading back into the Jefferies Tubes.
There also swearing in this two, once or twice but they bleep it out.
I hated everything to do with the two main characters, and the girl is really coming across as a Mary-Sue.
Ensign Mariner is *not* a Mary-Sue at all. If you think she is you don't really understand the definition of a Mary-Sue. Michael Burnham is arguably a Mary-Sue. Rey from Star Wars is arguably a Mary-Sue. Mariner is most certainly not.
Mariner was demoted and transferred to second-rank ship so that her own mother could keep an eye on her. Mary-Sues are brilliant at everything and completely faultless and infallible.
To me, Burnham isn't a Mary Sue either. She was a Commander, first officer of a ship, her Captain was considering sponsoring her for a command of her own. She mutineed, attacked her Captain and tried to fire on the Klingons. Her ploy failed, resulting in her being relieved of duty. On an away mission afterward, she got her Captain killed and failed in her attempt to capture T'Kuvma by killing him instead. She also failed to retrieve her Captain's body from the ship. For mutiny, she was stripped of rank and sentenced to life in prison. None of that describes a person who is faultless and infallible. She only wound up on Discovery due to blind luck on her part when Lorca had her shuttle diverted. Had that not been the case, she would have spent the rest of her days in prison wallowing in self pity. Even after the charges against her were dismissed, she still wasn't reinstated fully. She got at least partial rank back, but she wasn't a first officer. She was a science officer. It's unlikely anyone would trust her with command after what she did, even with the charges being dropped. So, by her own imperfect actions, she ruined her chances of command. So, definitely not faultless or infallible.
And, no, Mariner definitely isn't a Mary Sue. She just has experience. But, as Wishbone_Ash said, she was demoted and is serving in the bowels of an unimportant ship. Nothing she does in the episodes thus far is anything one of the senior officers likely couldn't do with more tact and professionalism.
Rey is a different matter. Disney wanted her to be perfect, so she is.
Okay so Mariner is not a Mary-Sue as she got flaws. But with her actions so far in the first two episode, she should have been drummed right out of Starfleet. But it thanks to Daddy, she stay in and serving on her Mother's ship. (that another can of issues.)
The Mary-sue part come from that she the best at everything and knows more than the command staff which includes her own mother.
Going by the first episode, Mummy not happy she has been lumbered with her daughter and wants her off her ship and out of the services.
So this weekend new Rumours started to come out that, Lower Decks is not doing well viewing figures. This is not from CBSAA as they don't realise those numbers.
This has come from a leak in Canada where the viewing figures will become public.
Rumour goes that for the first episode, it only had half a million views the majority of in the 41 Plus demographic. It was also a 50/50 spilt on the sexes.
For the second episode, it lost over half of it audience, most of which was from 18 to 40 demographic (the demographic the add agency want) and they lost about 45-50% of their female audience.
We won't know if this true or not until the viewing figure for Canada come out.
Part of me wants it to be true, because it give more ammunition to Sheri Redstone to boot Kurtzman out. But on the other hand, it would also mean that Trek is dying and it will take a lot to save it, and no Strange New World will not do it if Kurtzman and co are behind it.
@Freak ... I think, this‘ll stay a rumor. The YouTube Video alone has almost that many views. And this doesn‘t even count CBS-AA. In Fact 500K Views on a Platform with 5 Million Subscribers is pretty solid. Then you‘d have to account for some piracy since there’s no international distribution.
So even if the numbers are in fact correct, the framing is clearly meant to put down the show.
Oh ... and then there’s what I like to call the Star Trek Beyond Syndrome: I would not have even watched Lower Decks, had I not been in a hospital with nothing to do the whole day. But I’m glad, I did watch it, because I rather enjoyed the first two episodes. Did not expect that after ST:D and P 🤷🏻♂️
@P5ych0p4th like I said it rumour at least for a few more days until the Canada numbers are released either this week or next.
Then we will know the truth.
The Canadian viewing numbers with most TV shows have normal mirror US Viewing numbers in % (Given the US has a big population to Canada you have to do it this way.) So with that in mind you can take an educated guess as to what the viewing numbers are for CBS. But it only a guess as CBS will never realise they numbers.
Your right about the youtube channels covering this story. They only given limited information. however I have only seen one who has actually gone into a break down of the demographic's. But it all a mute point until the actual numbers are realised. Then we will know.
Like I said in my last post, part of me want it to be true, just so Kurtzman can be given the boot. But at the same time part of my want it to be false, because I don't want to see Trek die.
I hate the first episode and only partly like the second. (the Stuff on the ship with Cyborg Guy.) But with both episodes I did not find them funny.
Its sad that we're so desperate for new star trek that we'll just take anything at the minute... I have to admit that lower decks isnt as offensive as Picard or discovery... But then again i see this as a reaction to the orville.. in the same way that batman v superman was a panic reaction to marvel lol....im sure they considered doing this a live action series for 0.68 seconds... i find it hard to critisize it because i'm really not its target market.. but then im not sure what its target market is.. i was expecting a "kids" cartoon series... you know to introduce them into trek.. i'm not sure i'd see this on nickelodeon... But then the "old man" in me would say that my 6 and 8 year old are quite happy watching tng.. so....
im about to go off on a tangent.. let me reign it back..
All i'll say is i watched two episodes and although i was working aswell so wasnt giving it my 100% undivided attention.. I didnt turn it off or pause it every few minutes to ask "what the absolute $%^& ??" like i did with Discovery and Picard.. I know its going to get tones of hate online.. it's solo at this point... fine and not as terrible as what's come before it.... it's possibly going to be collateral damage...
Surly cbs cant keep heading in this direction.. I'm not just saying that as a disgruntled fan.. But surly there has to be someone in accounts looking at all this and saying ok whats happened to one of our biggest income streams.... I mean the term any press is good press must be embossed in gold over there... I just go back to the same question... How hard is it to assemble a cast.. captian, bridge crew.. and boldy going where no one has gone before... you can add other characters these days it can surly be more than just the bridge crew now... there was an episode of tng where they showed a two man crew of a subspace relay station, and it was really interesting because its, so not what we normly see... what im saying is i have no problems with them trying to tread new ground with trek. incase i sound like someone who just wants a remake of the old shows... but when you give someone who doesnt really care for, or get trek the big chair... and all they care about is how much of the merchandising pie there company can take.. is it any wonder we're where we are? (that is the disgruntled fan in me, i know and i'm sorry)
the real shame is that this (piss take-sorry) of a show is more StarTrek than anything they've made in the last what 4-5 years.. I mean i dont see star trek dying... there has to be someone that can see the market for trek is there... this current era might die.. and if im honest the sooner the better.. because i really want to sit down and watch a modern Star trek series that looks and feels like it's set in the same universe..... re watching 30 year old tv shows is great.. but i would like to see a show set, say 20 years after voyager... is that too much to ask for?
@Freak ... I think, this‘ll stay a rumor. The YouTube Video alone has almost that many views. And this doesn‘t even count CBS-AA. In Fact 500K Views on a Platform with 5 Million Subscribers is pretty solid. Then you‘d have to account for some piracy since there’s no international distribution.
So even if the numbers are in fact correct, the framing is clearly meant to put down the show.
Yeah, someone is trying to take the numbers out of context to make it seem like the show is doing bad. It's like the difference between network TV and cable stations. You can't take the numbers of viewers of a show on cable and compare it to network, because network stations are free to anyone with an antenna and they get higher views. You have to take the number of views and work up an average and compare it to other cable stations. The same logic can be applied to streaming. 500K views on a large platform like Netflix is terrible, a sure sign that the show will be cancelled. But, that's due to Netflix's high membership and the amount of views their stuff normally receives. On a smaller platform with way less members, it's not bad. It's about 1/10th of the subscribers to CBSAA. And, you have to figure a decent number of the subs there aren't even Star Trek fans. A fair number of people probably just use the service to ensure they don't miss CBS shows.
The last time I looked at the YouTube link Guerrilla provided, which was yesterday or the day before, the video had over 5 million views. Of the people who rated it, there were roughly 2/3 likes to 1/3 dislikes.
None of what I'm about to write is aimed at anybody on this forum specifically, rather it is a rant directed a the larger "fandom"
I don't give a rat's ass about the numbers, and I also hate how gleefully a lot of so-called Trek "fans" are reporting the low numbers in the hopes it will get the show cancelled or the executive producer fired, or both. Well, you know who else gets fired if the show fails? All the line producers, directors, editors, artists, modelers, voice actors, compositors, colorists, runners, gofers, janitors, coffee servers etc etc. People with families. Families that rely on their income, especially at the moment when economies worldwide are collapsing.
If you don't like the show, that's fine. Don't watch it then. But also don't hope for low ratings so the whole thing collapses because it's not just about you and your fickle desires as "fans"
Rant over.
As for Lower Decks, I like it, but it is the TV equivalent of bag of potato chips - a momentary distraction with little nutritional substance. And that is ok. It doesn't all have to be filet mignon all the time you know. Sometimes a bag of chips is just... fine. And that is what Lower Decks is. Complaining about something as fluffy and frivolous and good natured as Lower Decks frankly makes you look ridiculous. The future of highbrow entertainment is NOT at stake here. Just enjoy your potato chips. Or not. Makes very little difference to the world at large.
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I'm going to take a look at it after at least a couple more episodes drop. I don't like this weekly release schedule, I very much prefer how Netflix and Amazon Prime drop entire seasons at once. (Hulu may do that too)
Stayed away from the YouTube channels as I know they after those trailers and TV spots they are not going to like it. (Hell even after I saw them I am thinking great another crappy show from Kurtzman.)
So I have been looking at proper news outlet and not sites like IGN, they will say a turd on the pavement is the best thing since slice bread. Just so they can keep their access.
No, I been looking at trusted news site. (Well as trusted you as you can throw them. But most of the time they won't shill for the studios just to keep access. Their they are such a well know news organisation, that givens them that.)
There are some reviews that give positive things to say, but they all say the same thing. The show is just not funny and to many refences to classic Trek.
Here are just two examples of what I found.
The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/aug/06/star-trek-lower-decks-review-animated
The Hollywood Reporter
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/star-trek-lower-decks-review-1306088
As for me, if I am going to make up my own mind. I guess, I will have take up Captain Jack offer and take to the high seas, as there is no sign of when it will become available here.
Sadly it looks more trek than anything since ENT was canceled.
As for the show itself, well it fits the mold of what the studio has done before. Characters were a bit better than expected but still molded off the trope fulled PC types all over today. But it was only 24min of show so dunno.
It was on amazon but through the stupid cbs rental thing. And yeah everyone else I know is dling it even if they have access or the "channel" on amazon.
Seriously, it was on the same level as the Short Trek episode "The Trouble With Edward." Mainly unlikable characters, dumb writing that was trying to be funny and a whole host of other issues. The jokes that many people didn't laugh at in the previews are how the whole episode was written. I think the animation may have been the best part. (the music was OK too) I'm kind of hoping it will get better as the season progresses, but the season preview that was shown at the end of the episode didn't leave me with much hope.
So, I signed back up for CBS All Access to watch it, despite saying that I was going to wait for a few more episodes. It's only $5.99/month added onto my Prime membership, so it's not like it's going to kill my budget or anything. I will say, CBS All Access has actually gotten better. They have more shows than ever on there and they finally did something that I've said all along they needed to do: They've put movies on there. They've got some stuff on there I haven't seen in a while, like the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers and War of the Worlds. (I may watch those tonight) Plus, some stuff I've never seen before and might want to watch. So, at least they're improving the service. Now they need to take it international so that people in other countries can watch Star Trek and other stuff on there. Then they won't have to worry about partnering with services like Netflix or Prime.
Again, it's so weird going to different places and seeing the different reactions. Most of the folks on Discord liked it. Same for a couple of other places I go to. But then here and on youtube it seems to be all negative views most of the time. Just odd.
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YouTube isn't a good gauge for how good anything is. I see so much negativity on there in the comments section on so many videos. Though, there are plenty of people who don't comment on YouTube at all. I'm one of them. If I like a vid, it gets a thumbs up. I'm not going to comment on something then get called an idiot by someone just because I disagree with their point of view (happened more than once, back when I used to comment.) The YouTube comment section isn't moderated very well, (maybe not at all) so social graces go out the window there. I remember when they put the season 2 premiere of Discovery on there. I watched it and quite enjoyed it. (I really like Discovery, I own both seasons) The video had a fair number of likes, and of course a lot of dislikes too. But, the comments section was nothing but "This isn't Star Trek" and "That's the worst thing I've ever seen." **shrugs** You can't win them all.
Edit: While I'm on CBSAA, I think I'll watch Picard again. I didn't like it as well as Discovery, but I'll give it another look.
There are of course inevitable comparisons to The Orville (or as I prefer tho call it, The Boreville) but I honestly think a Star Trek comedy works better in the Star Trek universe than it does in The Orville's off-brand clone thereof.
I have to say, I did not hate it, but I did not love it. As for the jokes, well none of them landed, I did not find any funny. Why, because I have seen it all before and done better. There was nothing new and these sort of joke don't work with Trek.
The humour in Trek that works is situational humour. We Don't laugh at the characters but with them.
They also missed out one of the biggest running jokes, that could have run though
the whole season. These peeps, are lower decks. So the running Joke would be that they miss out on all the action, do not have clue what was going on and was only told by one of their shipmates that did get involved.
I mean the guy who was on a date, could have been trying to take her places, The Bar, Holodeck etc for the date and could not get in due to it being quarantine. He has no idea why everything is being quarantine. That would have been funny, but instead all this crazy crap is going on around them and they still doing the date and it only ends because he is more interested in an error and she not. Not funny!!
Also having the lower deck crew being part of the landing party was a mistake. They should be the last to go on away missions. But then that would have killed the whole story, so I can let it pass.
I could go on more about the bad joke. But I won't
So what did I like, it looked and felt like classic trek. Though the animation is not that great, Rick and Morty and Final Space both use the same style and look better. Personally I would have gone with an anime style (Akira, Ninja Scroll hell even Tank Police not Pokémon), but that would have cost them more.
I can see why people are calling it Rick and Morty does Star Trek.
One thing that does bothers me though is the main female lead, she Michel Burnham 2.0 the best at everything.
One last thing, enough with the name drops and refences, they are fine in small dosses. But there was way to many. Hopefully that will be toned down and the series goes on. But given the trailer it does not look like it.
Okay that sound like I hated it, but I don't it got a lot of potential to be good.
They fumbled the ball with the start, but they still pick up and get it over the line.
Only time will tell.
Have you seen season 2. They dropped most of the jokes and became more TNG, but still retaining the fun.
The Orville started out as a parody of Trek, just like Galaxy Quest was, but with the second season it started to do it own thing. It still has trek parody in it and that will never change, but it is doing it own thing.
Please note, I wasn't judging your opinion. Just making a general observation that different communities seem to have different tastes
I actually thought that was very funny. They are Nerds. Sometimes our priorities are different
Eh, while I do have that complaint about Burnham, there's a big difference in how it's handled in both shows. Burnham always does this speech, everyone cries, hug and then agree with her. Mariner is highly competent, but due to her own personal issues, ends up screwing things up with the upper ranks. That's way more believable to me.
I think this was because it was the first episode, and they wanted to establish things. I don't anticipate every episode will do that many references, although it is pretty clear they want to poke fun at some things in old shows. I don't really have a problem with it.
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I really don't get what the problem is with Burnham. She's no more "right all the time" than Spock ever was. Or Data. She's not perfect by any means, she actually makes a lot of mistakes through the course of the first two seasons of Discovery. People go along with her because she's a natural leader. Georgiou saw that about her, that's why she wanted to promote her. I think the main problem people have with her is that the show is about her. It's not about a group of officers like most Star Trek shows are, it's about her. Yes, there are others who help her along the way, some like Saru, Stamets and Tilly contribute a lot to the problem solving, but she's the focus. But, we were told that from the beginning of development for the show, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
But, back to this show, Mariner definitely isn't a Burnham. She's someone who had a decent career going until she did something wrong and got demoted and "shuffled away" to the lower decks of an "unimportant" Starfleet ship. She's not going to have her ideas listened to because she's considered unimportant. That's the whole point of this show, it focuses on a group of young officers who are considered unimportant. But, they're our "heroes," which is why the senior officers are portrayed as being glory hound d-bags.
If I was worried about anyone judging my opinion, I never would have posted it.
I get all that. I think the problem is the way they choose to write her. As I said, when there's a decision to be made, it's always an emotional scene which kinda makes the whole thing look like a soap opera. The second half of season 2 was especially bad at this. I know she had to leave, but jesus, we don't need a speech or everyone crying every other scene.
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I think that's pretty neat, but might not be great news RE: international distribution of the show... Anyway, watching now.
[edit]: ... and it's gone. What the hell CBS?
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Then again, I think TNG_S8 was the best thing ever, so I'm probably an easy target.
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Personally, I'm done with the show. I watched episode 2 this morning and it's not my cup of tea. So, I feel no desire to continue watching.
Aesthetically it shows just how absolutely terrible the art, set design and production direction has been on recent Star Trek (someone needs to tell these teams that set lighting has options between "all" and "nothing").
Surprisingly, I actually liked this one more than the first.
However saying that, there was a lot to disliked about too.
I hated everything to do with the two main characters, and the girl is really coming across as a Mary-Sue. That storyline really sucked and the only thing they got right was the Klingon. A Klingon that actually looks and acted like a Klingon too.
But what I did like, was everything to do with Cyborg Engineer guy. I though that storyline was really good and I did have a chuckle when he went to Command and doing the simulations, where he blows up the ship killing 105% of the crew and he is confused on how killed more than the crew.
It was also good to see each department head wish him luck as he moved from one department to the next instead of berate him.
The only thing I disliked about this story was how they ended it. I think it would have been better he went we green girl instead heading back into the Jefferies Tubes.
There also swearing in this two, once or twice but they bleep it out.
Ensign Mariner is *not* a Mary-Sue at all. If you think she is you don't really understand the definition of a Mary-Sue. Michael Burnham is arguably a Mary-Sue. Rey from Star Wars is arguably a Mary-Sue. Mariner is most certainly not.
And, no, Mariner definitely isn't a Mary Sue. She just has experience. But, as Wishbone_Ash said, she was demoted and is serving in the bowels of an unimportant ship. Nothing she does in the episodes thus far is anything one of the senior officers likely couldn't do with more tact and professionalism.
Rey is a different matter. Disney wanted her to be perfect, so she is.
The Mary-sue part come from that she the best at everything and knows more than the command staff which includes her own mother.
Going by the first episode, Mummy not happy she has been lumbered with her daughter and wants her off her ship and out of the services.
This has come from a leak in Canada where the viewing figures will become public.
Rumour goes that for the first episode, it only had half a million views the majority of in the 41 Plus demographic. It was also a 50/50 spilt on the sexes.
For the second episode, it lost over half of it audience, most of which was from 18 to 40 demographic (the demographic the add agency want) and they lost about 45-50% of their female audience.
We won't know if this true or not until the viewing figure for Canada come out.
Part of me wants it to be true, because it give more ammunition to Sheri Redstone to boot Kurtzman out. But on the other hand, it would also mean that Trek is dying and it will take a lot to save it, and no Strange New World will not do it if Kurtzman and co are behind it.
So even if the numbers are in fact correct, the framing is clearly meant to put down the show.
Oh ... and then there’s what I like to call the Star Trek Beyond Syndrome: I would not have even watched Lower Decks, had I not been in a hospital with nothing to do the whole day. But I’m glad, I did watch it, because I rather enjoyed the first two episodes. Did not expect that after ST:D and P 🤷🏻♂️
Then we will know the truth.
The Canadian viewing numbers with most TV shows have normal mirror US Viewing numbers in % (Given the US has a big population to Canada you have to do it this way.) So with that in mind you can take an educated guess as to what the viewing numbers are for CBS. But it only a guess as CBS will never realise they numbers.
Your right about the youtube channels covering this story. They only given limited information. however I have only seen one who has actually gone into a break down of the demographic's. But it all a mute point until the actual numbers are realised. Then we will know.
Like I said in my last post, part of me want it to be true, just so Kurtzman can be given the boot. But at the same time part of my want it to be false, because I don't want to see Trek die.
I hate the first episode and only partly like the second. (the Stuff on the ship with Cyborg Guy.) But with both episodes I did not find them funny.
im about to go off on a tangent.. let me reign it back..
All i'll say is i watched two episodes and although i was working aswell so wasnt giving it my 100% undivided attention.. I didnt turn it off or pause it every few minutes to ask "what the absolute $%^& ??" like i did with Discovery and Picard.. I know its going to get tones of hate online.. it's solo at this point... fine and not as terrible as what's come before it.... it's possibly going to be collateral damage...
Surly cbs cant keep heading in this direction.. I'm not just saying that as a disgruntled fan.. But surly there has to be someone in accounts looking at all this and saying ok whats happened to one of our biggest income streams.... I mean the term any press is good press must be embossed in gold over there... I just go back to the same question... How hard is it to assemble a cast.. captian, bridge crew.. and boldy going where no one has gone before... you can add other characters these days it can surly be more than just the bridge crew now... there was an episode of tng where they showed a two man crew of a subspace relay station, and it was really interesting because its, so not what we normly see... what im saying is i have no problems with them trying to tread new ground with trek. incase i sound like someone who just wants a remake of the old shows... but when you give someone who doesnt really care for, or get trek the big chair... and all they care about is how much of the merchandising pie there company can take.. is it any wonder we're where we are? (that is the disgruntled fan in me, i know and i'm sorry)
the real shame is that this (piss take-sorry) of a show is more StarTrek than anything they've made in the last what 4-5 years.. I mean i dont see star trek dying... there has to be someone that can see the market for trek is there... this current era might die.. and if im honest the sooner the better.. because i really want to sit down and watch a modern Star trek series that looks and feels like it's set in the same universe..... re watching 30 year old tv shows is great.. but i would like to see a show set, say 20 years after voyager... is that too much to ask for?
Yeah, someone is trying to take the numbers out of context to make it seem like the show is doing bad. It's like the difference between network TV and cable stations. You can't take the numbers of viewers of a show on cable and compare it to network, because network stations are free to anyone with an antenna and they get higher views. You have to take the number of views and work up an average and compare it to other cable stations. The same logic can be applied to streaming. 500K views on a large platform like Netflix is terrible, a sure sign that the show will be cancelled. But, that's due to Netflix's high membership and the amount of views their stuff normally receives. On a smaller platform with way less members, it's not bad. It's about 1/10th of the subscribers to CBSAA. And, you have to figure a decent number of the subs there aren't even Star Trek fans. A fair number of people probably just use the service to ensure they don't miss CBS shows.
The last time I looked at the YouTube link Guerrilla provided, which was yesterday or the day before, the video had over 5 million views. Of the people who rated it, there were roughly 2/3 likes to 1/3 dislikes.
I don't give a rat's ass about the numbers, and I also hate how gleefully a lot of so-called Trek "fans" are reporting the low numbers in the hopes it will get the show cancelled or the executive producer fired, or both. Well, you know who else gets fired if the show fails? All the line producers, directors, editors, artists, modelers, voice actors, compositors, colorists, runners, gofers, janitors, coffee servers etc etc. People with families. Families that rely on their income, especially at the moment when economies worldwide are collapsing.
If you don't like the show, that's fine. Don't watch it then. But also don't hope for low ratings so the whole thing collapses because it's not just about you and your fickle desires as "fans"
Rant over.
As for Lower Decks, I like it, but it is the TV equivalent of bag of potato chips - a momentary distraction with little nutritional substance. And that is ok. It doesn't all have to be filet mignon all the time you know. Sometimes a bag of chips is just... fine. And that is what Lower Decks is. Complaining about something as fluffy and frivolous and good natured as Lower Decks frankly makes you look ridiculous. The future of highbrow entertainment is NOT at stake here. Just enjoy your potato chips. Or not. Makes very little difference to the world at large.