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Star Trek: Lower Decks [Spoilers]

FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
edited July 2 in General Discussion #1
star-trek-lower-decks-logo-slice-600x200.jpg

With the anouncement of Lower Decks being realeased in Augest of this year and we already having threads for Picard and Discovery, to talk about the episodes.
I thought it would be best to start Lower Decks own thread.


So with that said, given what we have seen and know so far, what do people think?

I have to say I am not fan of the animation sytle, everyone seem to be doing that at the moment. (most likley becasue it cheap to do.) As for the show permises, I am not fan. But I will give it ago, you never know it could actually be good. (A Frist for Kurtzman era of Star Trek.)

As for the hero ship desgin, at least it different to what was seen in Picard and actually feels like it could be a TNG era ship. Though I am not a fan of the desgin. It has the same issues that the Orbeth Class has with getting into the secondary hull. Okay yes the pylons are big enough to a trubolift in, but they go striaght into nacelles. This we know from the episodes from Enterprise and TNG, is a big no, no when in operation. It somewhere you don't want to be.


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Post edited by Freak on
evil_genius_180
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    I think the ship actually looks pretty cool. It definitely has more of a TNG look to it. As for the animation style, yeah, not that great. It looks a bit too Cartoon Network for me. As for the premise, I'm on a wait and see approach. Doing a strictly comedy Star Trek series doesn't sound like my thing, but you never know.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla483 HelsinkiPosts: 2,647Administrator
    evil_genius_180
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2794 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,403Member
    Marathoned Rick and Morty recently, not too bad managed to watch it all. But that crashed alien show they did was not that great. So, dunno. Might be good might be a load of moan.

    Ship has more going for it than anything done since the end of ENT. Well it fits the era and looks. Apparently this occurs around the same time as Nemesis or shortly after.

    If they go with the R&M sort of humor, low hanging fruit might come into visual jokes. I expected a more vertical ship in mass to convey the show's title. Maybe some poor slobs are stuck in that lower deflector pod unable to access the upper decks. . . .
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th439 GermanyPosts: 310Member
    At least the ship looks TNG but that is one uninspired design. But since we‘re not following the Bridge Crew, the ship might actually not be that important to most stories.

    I don‘t have a problem with the animation style. Also a little uninspired but some more realistic looking animation might have been weird. I do like the Uniformes and ever since the TNG Episode, I thought the Lower Deck Concept is an Idea with potential.

    Then again, I would have liked it more, if they kept Trek Live Action. But out of all the Kurtzman stuff, this is probably the one I‘m most optimistic about, even after learning the first details. Discovery and Picard pretty much died for me, once I saw the trailers. 😅
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    The ship is probably designed with two things in mind: to give us a design that's different than most we've seen before and to make animating it easier. The simplified design aids in the second goal.

    The lower decks idea itself is interesting and that episode of TNG is certainly a good one, but a whole series where we don't know the full details of what's going on? We'll see how that goes.
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    Trailer for Lower Decks is now out.



    Can see why Netflix and Amazon has not signed on to distribute this internationally.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla483 HelsinkiPosts: 2,647Administrator
    I dunno. Looks pretty fun to me.

    Think the ship would work better, if it just had a neck, but I guess that would move the lower decks off the saucer. :p
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  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th439 GermanyPosts: 310Member
    As a SciFi Comedy, it might work. As a Trek Show it looks really weird. I could say, you can read my comment under the video for a more in depth opinion, but they've since deactivated the comment section ... I wonder why =)

    Since I can't say that much about the story at this point, my main gripe ist the marketing aspect of it all. The trailer is full of sex, nudity and gore. Cartoony versions of it, sure, but still. I wouldn't show that to a child. So you're doing a Cartoon-Show on Nickelodeon no less and aim it at adults? And oviously not Trek Fans especially since its a pretty radical departure from live action AND animated Trek that came before. And not different in "just another part of the universe"-way.

    But even that could work, if you just say, it's not Trek, it's a different Universe or somethin like that. But then you see a human heart being handled out of body with bare hands, a guy bing flung around by a space crteature in a way that would kill you just from whiplash alone and shooting on someone with a phase set to kill is treated as a joke. So what I take away from this, that it's a universe without consequence. But if nothing really matters, why should I care? I don't know id a situation is actually dangerous or if its fun. You could argue, that that's not much different from Rick and Morty, but in that case it's kind of what the whole show is about. I doubt very much, that this will be the case here.

    In Genre-Fiction, you have to establish the rules of the universe and adhere to them. You can't just make stuff up. Im wondering, if they actually write series bibles for those CBS Trek shows (or use the one Roddenbery did for TNG) or if they just start with random script ideas. The latter would explain a lot.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    edited July 13 #10
    It could be fun. Kind of Futurama meets Star Trek. Obviously, a lot of Star Trek fans won't like it, but I honestly don't think they care anymore. So many of you complained about the past few shows and movies that I don't even think they're trying to please you anymore.

    Anyway, I'll give it a whirl at some point.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    @P5ych0p4th This is not the Nickelodeon Show, that is still being work on and has not yet gone into production full production. This is the adult Animation.


    @evil_genius_180 I'm not saying I hate it, I have not seen it and most likely won't for some time given that it not available outside North America.
    That is a sign in it self that this can't be good.

    When Discovery was announced. Netflix signed on and payed for the cost of producing the first season before seeing anything. (it should also be noted that their deal with CBS happened when Bryan Fuller was still creating the show.) Netflix deal also got them "first Dips" on any future Trek show to be show internationally. They turned down Picard, which Amazon snapped up at a rumoured quarter of the price that CBS was asking for.

    With Lower Deck, both Amazon and Netflix have not yet signed on and there is no one to replace them.
    Now you got to ask yourself if Discovery did so well, why did Netflix reject Picard?
    If Picard did so well, why has Netflix and Amazon both "Walked away" from this?

    Also given that everything has been shut down due to the beer bug there has nothing new produced. Anyone would be snapping up a show that is ready to go. Yet the two biggest streamer have not. That says a lot.


    As for this Trailer did I find it funny, no not at all. Why because I was comparing it to past Trek. Trek has a continuity and set of universe runs that all show form TOS to ENT and Movies 1 to 10 followed. Everything since 2009 has just thrown that out the window.

    I might have found it funny if it was not Star Trek. But then the humour and what has been shown in this trailer I have seen before on Rick and Morty and even better on Final Space.
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    edited July 13 #12
    Okay I do have one major nick-pic with this show, before it has even came out.
    What is that major nick-Pic I hear you say.

    Well it the main Characters, why are the majority of them Human or Humanoid?
    I can get having one or two humans, so we can relate to them. But why do the aliens have to be Humanoid? We know why they are not in the live action show. It down to cost, have a non Humanoid Character cost money, weather it a puppet and having to pay for the puppets or just going full on CG, which is not cheap for a main character.
    But this is animation, they don't have that restriction. TAS managed to do it, so why cant this show?


    In the live action show we see most of the Federation ships being manned by Human with a few main alien characters and a few in the background. This is done due to cost and time. Just applying prosthetics to of actors take a lot of time.
    But this is animation, that is not a problem here. This was their chance to show more diversity of a Starfleet ship.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th439 GermanyPosts: 310Member
    @Freak ... okay, than that criticism isn't valid. But then again ... who asked for an adult themed animated Star Trek Show? ... or respectively, why has every new Trek show to be adult in every department except for the complexety of the writing? Its just tits and gore everywhere.

    Well ... maybe I'll watch the piolt, when nothing better is on ..
  • markmasseymarkmassey220 Posts: 323Member
    So i kind of weighed in on picard... telling my sob story about how disappointed i was with it and discovery....

    All i'll say is thank god tos tng ds9 and voy are all on netflix still.... Just watched the tng episode where we're introduced to ensign ro... an episode about terrorist attacks and it was 45 minutes of excellent dialog... no pew pew, no explosions, well the cardasians blew up an unmanned bajoran ship but that's it..

    we weren't witness to the attack on a federation colony which sparked the plot.. we didn't need to see children getting blown up.. After a great 3 minute monologue Ensign ro went from some a-hole officer that nobody wanted on board to being an a-hole officer with a pretty compelling backstory to be one... and you're totally on her side and riker can go take a walk :)..... maybe i should stick to the rewatch thread!!!

    I mean i knew this wasn't going to be my thing, i'm not going to throw poo at it.. as long as i can keep watching the old shows im happy to let new trek do its thing....
    P5ych0p4th
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    There aren't a lot of non humanoid aliens in Star Trek. Sure, a handful of species, but they're few and far between. Granted, TAS introduced a lot of aliens that were of species that would have been prohibitively expensive, maybe even impossible with 60s era makeup, but even a lot of those were generally humanoid in shape. M'Riss and Arix were the ones on the Enterprise, but they were very similar to humans in shape and size. The reason for so many humanoid aliens in Star Trek was explained in season 7 of TNG.

    Even if there were more non humanoid aliens, why would they necessarily want to serve with humans and humanoids? Say you could grow gills and go live with dolphins, would you want to? You've got almost nothing in common with them. You're not even anatomically similar. It's easy to believe non humanoid aliens would gladly serve with humanoids, but would they? We saw how Odo was treated a lot on DS9 and he could at least appear humanoid.

    Anyone remember the DC Comics in the 80s where a Horta served on the Enterprise? That was an interesting idea for sure, but even things like operating consoles made for humanoids would be greatly difficult.
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    @P5ych0p4th that is a very good question.
    You had Kurtzman say before Discovery Season 1 aired that Discovery is family friendly, then we get torture and Tit's. Then we get it even worse in season 2 & Picard. Not very child friendly, I would never show those shows to my youngest and she like Classic Trek.

    Then we hear that there will be a Child friendly Trek show, which means it going to be dumb down. (not that Discovery, Picard and Short Trek are not already dumbed down.)


    I don't know about you, but I grew up with Trek and watch it from an early age.
    I would say most of us here that grew up in 70's to the early 00's can say the same thing. Star Trek was always family friendly.
    I have not idea why Kurtzman and co are dumbing it down. But I know why they are putting in the swearing, gore, torture and sex. They can do it because it on a streaming service. But just because you can does not mean you should.
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    @evil_genius_180, I get what your saying. But that TNG season 7 episode was done to explain why everyone in universe looked Humanoid. I have also stated why they did not go non-Humanoid with the live action stuff.


    I also get what you are talking about with the Horta, it make sense an alien like that not want to or able to serve with humanoids.
    I was thinking more along the lines of aliens that are like Species 8472 & Arix.
    They are able to live and work in a humanoid environment, yet alien enough that they could not be played by a human if it was live action.


    As for Odo, that a mute point, He never mistreated by any Starfleet personnel, or Federation Member. With the Exception of Starfleet Security at Starfleet HQ and that only after the Founder threat has been made. The Starfleet Security did not really abuse him either it more of Mistrusting him.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    I get what you're saying, but on the other hand I get why they're sticking to what was established with the live action shows. They're mainly sticking to species we know from those shows, which more firmly roots it with previous Star Trek. One of our main cast appears to be an Orion, and there's a Bajoran. Plus, what appears to be a Caitian. (Lt. M'Ress's species) I also saw a number of other recognizable aliens in the trailer, including an Andorian and a Bolian, and possibly some Klingons. One of the bigger nitpicks with both JJ Abrams' Star Trek and with Discovery and Picard is that they actually don't have a lot of species that are recognizable. Instead, the tended to go with new species, especially the films, with the exception of showing a few of the major ones.

    Also, I don't know if you know this, but the first officer's name is Commander Jack Ransom. One can speculate that he could be related to Captain Rudy Ransom of the USS Equinox. (possibly a son) That would actually be really cool.

    I don't know, it still looks fun to me. Not like anything we've had before, but that could be fun for me. Like I said, I'm getting a bit of a Futurama vibe from it.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th439 GermanyPosts: 310Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... Your question, if non humanoid aliens would even want to serve in Starfleet or maybe if they’d feel discriminated in a “Homo Sapiens only club” would actually make for a great plot, especially in an animated series.

    After watching all of Stargate recently, I really liked, how they handled the Universe. There was a good reason, why pretty much everyone looked Human, since they mostly were displaced humans. Once they gout out more in SG:U they hat actual alien looking aliens. Now granted, they weren’t always consistent with that idea, but it really works.

    It’s pretty much what they tried in TNG Season 7 but it doesn’t really work too well as a Retcon, that’s never really explored. I like that episode anyways. I also really miss having Episodes of something and having 20+ Episode Seasons 😅
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    Like Freak said, the Season 7 TNG episode was mainly done to explain why there were so many humanoids. It was an in universe way of explaining the real world problem of most aliens needing to be humans in costumes and makeup.

    Back on the subject of TAS. As Freak also said, they really did a great job of showing what they could do when they weren't hindered by real world considerations. They had a number of truly alien species, non humanoids that appeared in several episodes. However, it's a damn shame none of them appear anywhere else in canon Star Trek. The only species that came from that show to ever appear in any other canon Star Trek was the Caitians. They appeared in Star Trek IV, as members of the Federation Council. However, none of the other species introduced have appeared since, not even in the CGI era of Star Trek. That's really a shame. I understand the rights to the exact look of many of those species belong to Filmation, and they even had to change the look of the Caitians due to that, but they don't even mention any of them. Not even in stuff made since CBS decided that TAS was officially canon. Unfortunately, this makes the series still stand alone as far as Star Trek goes.
  • SamuraiSamurai180 Posts: 399Member
    I saw J.J Abrams' efforts at Star Trek- he made Star Trek V look like Citizen Kane, so it truly can't be any worse than those.

    My main hope is that this series will knock the "alternate reality" nonsense on the head one way or another- either by being wildly successful and convincing someone to consolidate the rights to Trek, or being an apocalyptic failure causing them to give up and consolidate that way. If it can make me laugh or think along the way then I'll consider it a bonus, as it's been a long while since Trek managed either of those.
    FreakP5ych0p4th
    "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid."
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    I think the reason this is getting a lot of hate, is because it Star Trek.
    Now Trek has done humour and done it well, but an entire comedy series for Trek, does not fit.
    The humour comes across a "Stoner humour" and stuff we seen before.

    You remove the look and name of Star Trek from this, and just promote it as some new Animation. I think it would have been accepted better.

    With Star Trek you expect a level of intelligence, even with the humour and this does not deliver on any level.

    On a Side note, Normally when they put a trailer together they stick in the Best bits to entice viewer to watch it. Given that most of the jokes seen landed flat. The show has a lot of work to do, to win people over with that first episode. That is if people turn in to watch. The Trailer has had the opposite effect, given the comments on the Trailer before CBS disabled them.

    This could be the final nail in Kurtzman coffin when it come to Trek, only time will tell.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla483 HelsinkiPosts: 2,647Administrator
    Here's a first look
    evil_genius_180
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    We're still going to have to wait and see on this. That "first glimpse" was kind of stupid, but I'm hoping the rest of the show isn't always going to be like that.
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    It started off well, right up until the girl showed up.
    Was that meant to be funny, because I did not find it funny at all.

    As for seeing it, it going to be some time, as we also still don't know when it going to be distributed internationally.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    Freak wrote: »
    It started off well, right up until the girl showed up.
    Was that meant to be funny, because I did not find it funny at all.

    Yeah, I think it was supposed to be funny. If it was funny, I sure hope someone will tell me.
  • SamuraiSamurai180 Posts: 399Member
    I thought the opening music was lovely...

    With the hint of a plot in this sneak peek there's already more original storytelling and intrigue than anything J.J Abrams managed in two whole movies. I'm still working out whether that's a win for Lower Decks, or my threshold for "good" is just spectacularly low thanks to his efforts.
    "It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid."
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    @Samurai, I think it because we are just getting crap writing in everything these days and not just Trek.
    Our expectation levels of what is good has been lowered.
  • DeksDeks188 Posts: 253Member
    P5ych0p4th wrote: »
    @evil_genius_180 ... Your question, if non humanoid aliens would even want to serve in Starfleet or maybe if they’d feel discriminated in a “Homo Sapiens only club” would actually make for a great plot, especially in an animated series.

    After watching all of Stargate recently, I really liked, how they handled the Universe. There was a good reason, why pretty much everyone looked Human, since they mostly were displaced humans. Once they gout out more in SG:U they hat actual alien looking aliens. Now granted, they weren’t always consistent with that idea, but it really works.

    It’s pretty much what they tried in TNG Season 7 but it doesn’t really work too well as a Retcon, that’s never really explored. I like that episode anyways. I also really miss having Episodes of something and having 20+ Episode Seasons 😅


    I was under the impression that Starfleet and the Federation do not discriminate against species that look non-humanoid (and that on a Federation star-ship, that kind of behavior would essentially be unheard of).
    It may be a bit tougher to find non-humanoid alien species that would want or could serve in the same environment as humanoid species... but, I doubt it would be impossible.

    What bugged me about DS9 is how Quark tried telling Odo that solids are all alike and that they feel more comfortable around creatures/aliens that look similarly (aka, bipedal and humanoid)... but that went against everything that was established of the Federation and Starfleet... fortunately, Quark was a Ferengi, so his species didn't have same values as the Federation, so he was probably talking rubbish (certainly not something that would be applicable to the Federation at large).

    The pocket books (non-canon) mentioned that there were a few Horta who served in Starfleet... would be nice to see the animated series using non-humanoid species.
    Heck, they could even use dolphins (as the concept was there back for the Enterprise-D) and use them as another sentient species (non-Human animals ARE sentient after all, so its fairly obvious that Humanity would be able to communicate with them by that point easily).

    I also doubt that Starfleet would apply same measures/tests to every single species for their acceptance into service.

    Perhaps we could see some Gorn... Xindi insectoids too.

    There are numerous options to consider... but to be fair, we know very little about this show, and given what the 'snippets' thus far portrayed, it may not indicate they would go for the more 'serious' route.

    evil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801705 Posts: 9,856Member
    edited August 2 #30
    It's not a question of discrimination, it's a question of practicality. Starfleet vessels are built for humanoids. Every control panel is designed for a humanoid. As you said (and I did as well) there have been instances in non canon Trek of Horta in Starfleet. That sounds reasonable, as Horta are intelligent beings that exist in an environment similar to humans. They ingest solid rock, but that can be accommodated. However, how do they reach a control panel? They're very short. Even if they could reach it, how do they manipulate the controls? They don't have hands or fingers. And, it's not just a question of modifying a station for the Horta to work or quarters for it to live in. Every single door panel the Horta has to interact with has to be accessible to it. We've seen in Star Trek where not every single part of the ship can be accessed by doors that open automatically upon approach. Some have to be accessed via a keypad. Needless to say, it would be difficult to accommodate a being of the Horta's physiology. Not impossible, but incredibly difficult. That could be a reason we don't see them very much in Star Trek.

    A great example of a non humanoid species that definitely had space flight are the Xindi-Aquatics. It was mentioned on Enterprise that the Xindi became Federation members and would serve on Starfleet vessels. The Aquatics require a liquid environment and there are other considerations. However, we have to assume that by the 24th century they'd have developed some kind of exosuit to help them exist in an environment made for humanoids and to manipulate controls. In the TNG book Dark Mirror, they had a being similar to a dolphin on the Enterprise, and he used such a suit. It had small repulsors that allowed him to float through the ship. And, of course, his quarters were modified using forcefields to be filled with water.

    An animated series would be a great place to include such species, but it's hard to say how technical they're planning to be. Likely, they never even thought of such a thing. Or it's there and we just haven't seen it in the roughly 3 minutes of footage we've seen from the show.

    I think we can discredit anything Quark said to Odo on the subject as either being the narrow minded views of a member of a race that has been shown to have a number of prejudices that humans and other Federation member species of the time supposedly don't, or just an attempt to make Odo angry. Making Odo angry is, after all, one of Quark's favorite things to do.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • FreakFreak963 Posts: 4,148Member
    So It Thursday, which means today is the day that kicks of many weeks of Trek on CBSAA and in Canada.
    Still no news on International Distribution for Lower Decks. I got a feeling that at least the first episode is going to get pirated big time.

    As for the international distribution, what the betting everyone is waiting to see what the reaction is to the first few episodes/ full series before they go ahead and take it on.
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