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  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    I would not say that Netflix is no longer partner with CBS for trek.
    They still have the rights to show Discovery and Short Treks and also get first option on any future Trek.

    Amazon only has Picard because Netflix turn it down.

    But I have also heard that Amazon and Netflix are taking Secret Hideout to court or more specifically Kurtzman to court for spending money they had given him for Discovery and Picard. on things other than the shows it was meant to be spent on.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    Freak wrote: »
    Amazon only has Picard because Netflix turn it down.

    I've only heard this in one of the midnights edge videos. Are there any reliable sources for that? Amazon could've simply outbid Netflix. Wouldn't be the first Time. They're kind of ruthless, when it comes to procure licenses ...

  • GuerrillaGuerrilla532 HelsinkiPosts: 2,737Administrator
    Yeah, The Expanse is another good example of that. Netflix was the international distributor for seasons 1 and 2.
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  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    edited April 2020 #185
    @P5ych0p4th, It was in a reliable news site. Hollywood reporter or something like that. This was the deal between Netflix and CBS was announced.

    When Netflix agreed to co-finance the first season of Discovery, the deal included, not just Discovery, but all past Trek shows to be shown and kept on Netflix. (not the Movies as Paramount has the rights to those).
    As mention above part of the deal, Netflix got the right for first option on all future Trek shows while the deal was in place.

    The reason Netflix was able to get all of this is because they pretty much paid for the first season of Discovery. They also had the option to out right pay for the second season and extend the deal. (I believe the original deal was for five years or for the full run of Discovery, which ever was longer.) Given that season 1 was such a flop and not what they where expecting, Netflix did not take up the option for the second season and only paid bare minimum as agreed in the contract.

    When Picard was announced, Netflix and the merchandiser saw what was planned, they asked for it to look and feel more like past trek, before signing on.
    When they came back and not enough changes where made, Netflix walked away along with the Merchandiser.

    This is where Amazon steps in, and signed on for less than what Netflix was willing to pay.
    If Amazon turn it down as well, then CBS would had to go the old route of offering it different station in different countries and would never got the amount that Amazon paid.

    As for Merch, since current Trek have you seen any proper merchandise for it with the exception of Egalemoss?
    The answer is no, yet in Trek heyday. You could buy anything Trek related merch from Number Plates to clothing.
    You wanted something Trek branded, you could most likely get it.

    @Guerrilla, The Expanse is not a good example.
    Before Amazon came onboard, Scyfy or whatever they are calling themselves these days.
    Had the sole rights to show it first. The makers of the show, did a deal with Netflix for it to be shown internationally after it had been shown on Scyfy. They also did a deal with Amazon where you could pay for it. Not watch for free.

    After season 3 ended, Scyfy announced that they would not be picking up the Expanse for Season 4. Netflix also had not yet picked up the rights to show season 3.
    That is where save The Expanse campaign started. They only had a limited time before the sets would have to be pulled down at which point it, the show could not be saved.

    It was thanks to Fans and the cast of the Expanse that they managed to convince Jeff Bezos to pick it up.
    (Bezos happened to be a fan of the show.) At the last minute the show was saved.
    Amazon did not just get the rights for future seasons but bought the right out fully. This meant that the Expanse had to come off Netflix once their deal was done. (it just happened to be at it end and up for renewal.)

    Look at Lucifer, the show maker is Warner Brother, but it was shown on FOX and international right to it was with Amazon. When FOX did not renew Lucifer for season 4, Netflix step in to save the show for two seasons which has now been expanded to three. However Netflix only has the rights for the three season that will appear on their service. For the first three season at least internationally you still have to watch them on Amazon.


    Sorry that was bit of a long post.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    It will interesting to see if this actually goes into production.
    Section 31 was announced years ago and it still to go into production.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    One of the few good things to come out of ST:D. If they manage to keep it simple, it can work. However I have yet to see a Star Trek Production set after 2009, that actually manages to do that. If the first trailer is anything like “[Thing] threatens to destroy all of existence however Chris Pike was chosen by the Universe itself to stop it” ... I’m out.
  • ViperViper1211 Posts: 682Administrator
    Freak wrote: »
    It will interesting to see if this actually goes into production.
    Section 31 was announced years ago and it still to go into production.

    Section 31 had to accommodate Michelle Yeoh on her Marvel project. Plus I'm sure writing the script took a while after they wrote themselves into a corner with Season 2 of Disco.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Section 31 was also going to be a harder sell anyway. It was to follow a mirror universe character who works (worked) with a clandestine shadow operation within the Federation. Not really Star Trek as we've seen it before. However, a show that follows the adventures of Captain Pike and his crew aboard the Enterprise is exactly what Star Trek is all about. This could be the very show they need to get Star Trek back to what made it great in the first place and get back in the good graces of some of the fan base.

    Personally, I've been hoping they were going to do this for a long time. :)
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    edited May 2020 #191
    Viper wrote: »
    Freak wrote: »
    It will interesting to see if this actually goes into production.
    Section 31 was announced years ago and it still to go into production.

    Section 31 had to accommodate Michelle Yeoh on her Marvel project. Plus I'm sure writing the script took a while after they wrote themselves into a corner with Season 2 of Disco.

    It was announced before season 2 of Discovery was even realised. Then halfway though season 2, said they have worked out the story and working on the scripts and the show will go into production after season 3 was filmed. which make you think all the scripts for season 2 was done.
    apparently not as they would not have write themselves into a corner with her character now being in the future yes.

    Before Season 3 had started filming Section 31 had still not been given the green light. Yeoh was hoping to go into this job shortly after finished work on Season 3. Secret Hideout could not grantee that and because Yeoh is in such high demand she took the job to be in Avatar 2 and 3. Half way though filming season 3 Secret Hideout still could not give her a date. (again the show had not been green lighted.) Marvel was now knocking at her door, so she accepted that job. Rumour has it, that Secret Hideout have been making promises they can't keep, Yeoh is now walking away from Trek.

    @evil_genius_180, Personally I had enough of prequels, this will be the third one in Trek, fourth if you count the JJ films. Trek has always been about moving forward so do that.
    Then the show has two major red flags before it even started, Secret Hideout is making it and second Akiva Goldman is the showrunner. Show me on good Scifi project he has been involved with. there are none.

    The only good thing is the cast and that they said it will be episodic, like classic Trek.
    I would be more hopefully if they get rid of Secret Hideout altogether, and brought in someone that at least would respect Roddenberry and Berman era of Trek.

    Post edited by Freak on
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... the show, that gets the somewhat disillusioned fans back, should have been Picard. Finally a show, that was set in the future again. Personally I could have done without any of the previous characters but it’s not like having Patrick Stewart as the supposed lead is a bad thing.

    And what we’ve got was something that barely resembles Star Trek on a thematic level. There’s some lip service to Themes, that could have worked in an old TNG Episode but nothing more. And on top of that you have every Character you bring back be as miserable as possible or downright torture them to death. Picard is replaced with a robot and Data gets a send off that works from an artistic point of view but thematically glorifies suicide. I mean, they could have build him a “golem” that ages and dies naturally. Somehow they even managed, to make one of the most expensive TV Shows ever look cheap ...

    I’m afraid, I’m with @Freak on that one. As long as Kurtzman has his hands in the production of any of those shows, I don’t see us getting something, that actually resembles a Star Trek show.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Honestly, if you guys have already made up your minds ahead of time that you're not going to like it, you should do yourselves a favor and not watch it. Nobody is forcing you. I, on the other hand, am looking forward to it and will definitely watch it.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... oh I will watch it. I will not watch Picard S2 and Discovery S3. But I'm not saying, it's impossible, that they manage, to finally do a good show. I might give it just some episodes this time instead of a whole season, but that might change.

    The thing is ... I went into every one of those new shows, wanting to like them. I was rather optimistic after Picards first episode. I actually like the Kelvin Movies. But those TV Shows so far have just been terrible on a story level.

    I am however looking forward to Lower Decks. But if that'll be the fourth time, they do an insultingly bad Season of TV under the Star Trek Brand I might be thinking about not watching anything new from CBS AA (or whatever it'll be called soon) again.
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    @evil_genius_180, I will be watching this show and hope it will be good. After all that is one of the core messages of Trek. Hope. (also something missing form current Trek.)

    But I can't deny the history of the people working on current Trek.
    Look at the JJ films, like them or not they are just action packed pop corn flicks with some very bad stories. Beyond was actually good, but it still has some of the issue of the first two films. Funny enough Kurtzman did not write that and had nothing to do with that film as he was working on Amazing Spider-Man 2 or The Mummy at the time. (which both films flopped.)
    He has written and produced Discovery, Short Treks, and Picard all of which have been badly written to the point it makes no scene.
    I already said Goldman has not done anything good in scifi.

    So it simple either get rid of Secret Hideout, or Secret Hideout hires someone new and let them get on with it without interfering.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @Freak ... I‘m too lazy to google it but you might know it: wasn’t there a project in developement with Nicholas Meyer? Right around the same time as Discovery? Whatever happened to that?
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    P5ych0p4th wrote: »
    @Freak ... I‘m too lazy to google it but you might know it: wasn’t there a project in developement with Nicholas Meyer? Right around the same time as Discovery? Whatever happened to that?

    As far as I know, that was Discovery. He's officially listed as a consulting producer on the first season. Though, I don't know what his actual involvement was and he wasn't invited back for the second season. (I think Kurtzman had gotten rid of most of the "old guard" by then) If he had anything else in the works, it's not listed on his Wikipedia page.
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    edited May 2020 #198
    @P5ych0p4th, @evil_genius_180 is partly right and so are you. Nicholas Meyer was a consulting producer on Discovery, but left at the same time as Bryan Fuller. As they used lot of Meyer input for the show, they had to give him the credit. Just like Fuller got co-creator credit.

    But you are also correct about a Meyer project as well. It was to be a mini-series of three episode at 90 mins.
    They where to based on Khan Noonien Singh. I heard to different what the story was going to be. The first I heard was that it was all going to be based in the last 80's up to the mid 90's on how Khan came to power, The Eugenic War and his fall from power with the show ending with the Enterprise finding the Botany Bay.
    This would have been cheap to make, as they would not have to build sci-fi sets, they could just use locations of today.

    The second version I heard was going to be the first episode and first half was going to be what I stated above and the rest of it was Khan life on Ceti Alpha V ending with Reliant arriving. (personally I like the first story better, but the second would work in they had more episodes.)

    This project got bind when Kurtzman and Secret Hideout took over.

    Meyer talks a little about it in the Midnight Edge interview with him.
    As for the project not being in his IMDB page. Well it was scrapped so it has been removed, but it was there when it was in development.
    Post edited by Freak on
    P5ych0p4thevil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Yeah, I was thinking he departed with Fuller, but I couldn't remember for sure. They seemed to be getting rid of a lot of people who wouldn't do whatever Kurtzman wanted at that point. I also forgot if he had pitched a project prior to that. I know a lot of people did.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla532 HelsinkiPosts: 2,737Administrator
    Here's the announcement video, since I didn't see it in the thread already
    P5ych0p4thevil_genius_180
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  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    Man, I like Peck, Mount an Romijn ... they really seem to be fans. I hope, they manage to actually give them a good show.
    evil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    P5ych0p4th wrote: »
    Man, I like Peck, Mount an Romijn ... they really seem to be fans. I hope, they manage to actually give them a good show.

    I couldn't agree more.
    P5ych0p4th
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    edited May 2020 #203
    I agree, but how do you feel knowing, no matter what happens these characters will live to save the day, with the except of Number 1.

    Pike and Spock we know how their stories are going to end. So what every trouble they get into we know they will get though it. That's the problem of doing Prequel stories. If it had been just Number 1 after she had left the Enterprise, then it a different story.

    @evil_genius_180 Everything went down the toilet once Kurtzman came onboard.
    I would have liked to have seen Mayer show.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Freak wrote: »
    @evil_genius_180 Everything went down the toilet once Kurtzman came onboard.
    I would have liked to have seen Mayer show.

    Yeah, Nicholas Meyer is a huge Trek fan. I think he'd have done something really good. But, we'll likely never know. I mean, it's not like the guy directed the Star Trek film that's the favorite of a lot of people, or anything like that. :eyeroll:
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @Freak ... that can work. Sure, if you’re constantly doing “saving the universe” or “the ship and crew are in mortal danger” stories, it doesn’t really matter.

    You can do first contact scenarios, just exploring penomena or focus on the characters. TNG did a whole episode on Data having a girlfriend. DS9 did an episode about a baseball game. Or think of Voyagers “blink of an eye”, where you know that the crew isn’t going to be stuck in orbit of the planet.

    You are right, that prequels tend to have this problem, but with good writing there are plenty of ways around that. I just don’t see anyone of the people around Kurtzman actually being able to pull that off.


    @evil_genius_180 ... it’s not even the first time. I believe, they wanted Meyer to do Nemesis but it didn’t work out for some really stupid reason. Same with Leonard Nimoy who almost directed Generations.
    evil_genius_180
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    @P5ych0p4th Prequel can work if you know nothing about the characters past.
    Better Call Saul is a good Example of this. We knew nothing about his past before Breaking Bad and he was not a major character in Breaking Bad. So when they announced Better Call Saul, no one objected because you really knew nothing about him. The show is now winding up as it getting to where Breaking Bad started.

    While Pike you can get away with this a little as not that much is know about him.
    But Spock on the other hand is a different story. Now if Spock was not on the show, he could work.

    But we are all in agreement no mater what happen, with Kurtzman, Goldman and their cronies involved. It not going to be as good as it should be.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    P5ych0p4th wrote: »
    @evil_genius_180 ... it’s not even the first time. I believe, they wanted Meyer to do Nemesis but it didn’t work out for some really stupid reason. Same with Leonard Nimoy who almost directed Generations.

    I found it on IMDb. It was because Meyer wanted to rewrite the screenplay, but Rick Berman had already promised screenwriter John Logan full control of the story. Berman was going to go to LeVar Burton next, but was ordered by the studio to hire Stuart Baird. Great choice, since Baird was completely oblivious to the world of Star Trek: The Next Generation. :eyeroll: (he thought Geordi LaForge was an alien) Considering how the movie performed (or didn't) and the lull we got in Star Trek after that and after Enterprise ended, one wonders how things could have been different with Nicholas Meyer at the helm of Nemesis. Obviously, he saw issues with the script, which is a main point of contention with fans. That makes sense, as he's a fan himself. CBS still doesn't seem to understand the difference between just hiring anyone and hiring someone who cares about the property.

    Leonard Nimoy declined Generations for essentially the same issue. He saw issues with the script and was told there wasn't time to fix them. He was also supposed to play Spock in the film, but he found the lines they wrote were bland and could be said by anyone. The lines were given to Scotty, which Nimoy used as proof that they weren't necessarily Spock lines. Given that Generations has a lot of issues, and I mean a lot, and that it's actually my least favorite "Prime" timeline movie, (yes, I even like it less than The Final Frontier) I would like to have seen what he would have done with it. Though, the time element makes sense, given that they filmed the movie and then immediately started destroying/modifying the sets to make the interiors of Voyager.
  • FreakFreak1077 Posts: 4,353Member
    The Reason Stuart Baird was given the job over Mayer was that Baird had a three picture deal with Paramount. It was also play or pay deal and he had already made two films for them and had been sitting on the side-lines for a few years. As it was cheaper to have him make a film than pay him not too. So they gave him Nemesis.


    It not surprising that Generation was a rush job. Paramount wanted a TNG film out ASAP. so the script was being written at the same time as All Good Things. So only a few month before the film went in front of the cameras. On top of that, as Chris has said they needed to pull down the TNG sets so the Voyager one could be built.
    This meant that as soon a filming has wrapped on TNG they could start on Generation. It also the reason why Voyager first season was shorter than the rest, because they lost time due to Generation being film and the sets being built.
    If you listen to the cast, they only had a two week break between TNG finished an Generation started filming.
    evil_genius_180
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... Meyer may be a Fan now but I believe, it didn’t start out that way. He an Harve Bennett had no prior experience with Star Trek when they were brought in. I believe, they didn’t even have experience with SciFi, but I might be Wrong there.

    They watched the whole of TOS and actually figured out, what it is about, resulting in a great movie. Maybe a tad too militaristic for Genes taste but it worked. It’s more like the difference between TNG and DS9 that TNG and Picard.

    I believe Berman wanted to do the same thing by bringing in Logan. But kept himself in charge, so it wasn’t really the same thing.

    Enterprise is the perfect example for what some fresh blood can do. Manny Coto really turned that ship around. It was maybe a little bit Fan Service-y but that’s what you get with prequels. They even wanted to re-establish the possibility to just send in scripts, like they hat with TNG. It’s a shame Enterprise didn’t get it’s 7-Season run. It wouldn’t have been as Great as TNG but probably really good under Coto ... who, I think, wasn’t really a SciFi Guy either.
    evil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    @P5ych0p4th .. Yeah, Meyer had a definite militaristic approach to it. He wanted to do a submarine movie in space, that's why the Mutara Nebula battle is so exciting. But, you can definitely tell by the uniforms and color schemes for the Starfleet ships that he was going for that military look. The cast probably liked those uniforms better, though. I've heard the ones from the first movie were very uncomfortable and they needed help getting in and out of them. The TWOK uniforms (my favorite) look like they go on like normal uniforms do.

    You definitely got another more militaristic turn when they went to DS9 also. Likening TWOK to TOS and DS9 to TNG is definitely a good comparison. Though, even the post TNG movies had kind of a militaristic edge and look to them. It's like Starfleet lost some of its naiveté in its repeated encounters with the Cardassians, Borg and Dominion. Something similar may have happened in the 23rd century with the Klingons and the Romulans.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 336Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... yeah, I always found weird, that the TNG Movies kept DS9s militaristic tone, since Berman wasn’t exactly a fan of that show. Then again, Moore and Piller wrote 8 and 9 respectively and who knows, what exactly Logan was thinking (I was actually excited about him writing Nemesis at the time, because the 2002 Time Machine is one of my favourite movies to this day). Trying to do a new TWOK never worked out. Just look at Nemesis and especially Into Darkness (while I do believe, Kurtzman gets a little too much hate for that one, since that whole 9/11 Stuff is all Orci) ... also: I still think Meyers best Film in the Series is Undiscovered Country, which isn’t getting nearly enough love. But I dread what movies would look like, trying to incompetently recreate it ... maybe it‘s for the better 😁

    I actually have one of those red Uniformes somewhere in my closet. Would be a good reason, to get in shape again. However, I don‘t believe, they let me wear it in court 🤔 ... then again, I always wore my Star Trek Cufflinks back as a public prosecutor ... good times 😁
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