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Picard [Spoilers]

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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3497 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,514Member
    Well that was what those little holo booths were for at quarks even though they tried to not call directly to it being a masturbation booth like at seedy porn shops. Guess one of the things that made DS9 more there as a location and overall world. Even if ds9 was a large american mall. Oh, the trends of the time.

    The end of the show was all like look happy roses, with her not having to be responsible for murder, seven and the druggie getting intamate even with maybe if you look back some small "hints" ugh just beh. Not to mention effeminate romulan kungfu swordsman who was a total insert and mattered vbery little in the end. Dunno more I mull it over the more it falls apart. Oh well bad book and move on. HAH.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Sadly, I can pretty much guess how this is going to end. Soji is still going to be on Picard's side. She's going to help them escape and stop the signal and she's probably going to have to kill the other android that looks like her. (hence, her questioning killing on to save many) Picard is going to go into Speech mode, and convince everyone to cool down. That's my guess on the broad strokes of how it's going to go.

    Well, I was frakking close. Agnes helped him escape, but Soji was on Picard's side in the end and she did shut down the signal. And, of course, he gave a speech that cooled everyone down. I didn't count on Soong's son finding out the one android was bad and deactivating her, but that was a nice touch.

    Yeah, it's over and I can cancel BS All Access again. Their ads are annoying. I think this show is actually worse than Discovery. I don't feel the need to rewatch it, whereas I at least enjoy Discovery enough to watch it more than once. (I'm probably going to watch it again soon, since I just go the second season)

    Also, I've been watching TNG again recently and I'm in season 3 and something hasn't quite sat right with me and the Romulan plot for Picard. Then I was in the shower earlier and it dawned on me what it is:

    "You're the android. I know a host of Romulan cyberneticists that would love to be this close to you." -Admiral Jarok (TNG: The Defector)

    That statement seems to go against what Laris said about the Romulans never having anything to do with synthetic life. Romulan cyberneticists sound like Romulans working in that very field and them loving to be that close to Data likely means they'd like to study him to replicate the technology. Now, you can call that a disposable line from a single episode of TNG, but it seems odd that the whole plot of this show apparently revolves around the Romulans' fear of synthetic life, yet they were apparently very interested in it 30-something years earlier. That sort of lack of attention to detail is the sort of thing that plagues modern Star Trek.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    @evil_genius_180 ... yeah, I think, I saw that quote on that YouTube chanel, that shows all the instances of Picard violating canon.

    But even if that weren‘t the case. Retconing almost never gets good results. That‘s why people tend not to like prequels.

    And - to my own surprise - I‘m with you on discovery actually being the better show of the two. At least discovery looks good and has some likeable characters. Apart from Burnam I actually like most of them. Picard tends to look incredibly cheap. Especially that finally had some of the worst grenscreen I‘ve ever seen.
  • FreakFreak1073 Posts: 4,345Member
    @P5ych0p4th you mean Major Grin, love that Guy/Girl channel and rips Picard apart with not just violating canon but things they have set up in their own show.

    @evil_genius_180 the whole Romulan plot make no scene.
    It mention in the same episode that they don't use AI for automating anything. How does that work? Your an interstellar civilization, your going to need AI to make your ships run. Plot a course though space as Han Solo say "Is not like dusting crops, Boy!" There are billion of calculation and minor course changes. Plus add what the Romulans use for a power sauces on their ships. A Artificial Singularity, there is no way in hell a Romulan Engineer could move fast enough to keep that thing stable, you would need an AI automation system to do that and that just two example on a starship. just think about what we use a very basic AI automation system in our world today from a factory floor all the way to Nuclear Power Planets. This is something according to that episode Romulans don't use. No way they could be interstellar civilization.
    Once again a plot that has not been thought out.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    edited March 2020 #96
    P5ych0p4th wrote: »
    And - to my own surprise - I‘m with you on discovery actually being the better show of the two. At least discovery looks good and has some likeable characters. Apart from Burnam I actually like most of them. Picard tends to look incredibly cheap. Especially that finally had some of the worst grenscreen I‘ve ever seen.

    I could get over how cheap it looks. Sure, it has no reason to be with all of the money they threw at it, but I could still let that go. However, I think you got it right about likable characters. Out of all of the main characters they created for the show, I found Elnor to be the only really likable one. Soji is OK but she's got some moments where she's not so likable. Rios and Raffi are a mess. Though, the worst for me is Agnes Jurati. She has practically no redeeming qualities. Out of all of the characters who we met for the first time, I think that Laris and Zhaban should have gone with Picard. They're at least likable. Plus, it would have made a lot of sense to have an ex Tal Shiar agent with him, instead of the drugged out and flaky Raffi. For returning characters, of course Picard, Will Riker, Deanna Troi and Data are all fantastic, and Seven of Nine was great. It was also great seeing Hugh again. We just needed either more of them or better new characters, in my opinion. Also, as villains go, I didn't find Narek or Narissa all that compelling. Probably the best part with Narissa was where Seven killed her.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    @evil_genius_180 you‘re right. Laris and Zhaban were probably the best new characters. And though I didn‘t like her character very much, I really enjoyed Alison Pills acting.

    As for the Rest of the characters, It just shows, how pointless the show actually is. There is a whole episode, to introduce Rafi. And then she doesn‘t really do anything that important anymore. Sure, there‘s her substance abuse plot ant her estranged son but both of those went nowhere. Then there’s the whole episode about Elnor and his backstory. But really ... he doesn‘t do anything in the show after that. The actor gave him at least some personality, which makes him somewhat likeable, but really ... he seems out of place. Then we have Seven, Hugh and the Cube. Non of whom/which added that much to the story in the end. Which is a shame, since both actors did a fantastic job and Hughs storyline would have made for far more interesting TV. And finally you have Riker and Troi who ... again ... deliver a superb performance (Sirtis in particular) but they play no role in the story.

    If we‘re really honest, even Picard and Data feel a little out of place in the Story they‘re telling. And again, the story, they‘re not telling would have been far more interesting: Data’s consciousness trapped in some „quantum void“ because B4s Matrix could not handle it and Picard being faced with the task of ending it, thereby facing his own mortality. Now there‘s a story. And assisted suicide always makes for an interesting dilemma. And best of all, you don‘t need any Borg or Romulans to tell it.

    Oh ... and It would actually be about AI. Because, let’s face it: Picards new body isn‘t a „sentient robot“ but simply advanced clone. But I‘m not sure, the authors have any understanding of technology.

    Now you couldn‘t make a point about Trump and Brexit with that but for as much as Stewart touted that on his PR tour, I didn‘t really see much of that in the show anyways. It‘s so subtle, it‘s almost pointless.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    edited March 2020 #98
    I honestly thought the best thing about the Picard finale was the Federation ship. Granted, it would have been nice to see a couple more designs instead of 200+ of the same one, but it was cool to finally see something from that era. Otherwise, it was pretty much just bland cliche BS mixed with some OK moments. (like when Seven killed Narissa) Then there was the biggest cliche in all of Star Trek: Main character gives life, everyone grieves, and through pseudo science BS, the main character comes back to life. I didn't mind that cliche bringing Spock back to life, but I hate almost every other instance of it in Star Trek. Plus, the fact that I knew what they were going to do after he "died" didn't help matters. And, I'm the guy who usually doesn't complain about these shows. (anymore) But, it just wasn't good storytelling, to say nothing about not being good Star Trek.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    P5ych0p4th
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3497 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,514Member
    Dunno, guess I was the odd one out to hate the Romulan ships and fed ships and the clone army use of them.
    P5ych0p4th
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Dunno, guess I was the odd one out to hate the Romulan ships and fed ships and the clone army use of them.

    I liked the Federation ships mainly because, it was nice, to finally see any, that look, like they fit within the era. As for the design and even modelwork, they‘re really really boring. And no one can tell me, that John Eaves didn‘t simply give them a 14 year old concept, he just had laying around:

    tkget62fif5j.jpeg

    As for the Romulans: they look actually quite interesting from the top. But whoever thought of that Cylon Raider Design, should be slapped across the face with a long eel.

    And the USS Xerox vs. the Ctrl+C Cruiser was incredibly boring visually. Even just sitting Riker down on the Discovery Bridge over in Toronto was uninspired. It‘s hard to follow any of the old romulan designs, but why even try? In-Universe they‘re strapped for resources. So why not make a fleet out of all the Designs, we‘ve seen over the years? That would have been amazing. A D'deridex Cruiser, next to a Bird of Prey, next to a Valdor ... may be even a Scimitar ... just imagine ...

    Oh well. It‘s over. Will be interesting to see, what direction season 2 takes or if they‘ll think about cancelling it given the really bad critical reception of the Finale. 🤔
  • FreakFreak1073 Posts: 4,345Member
    edited March 2020 #101
    @MadKoiFish no your not alone. Hell the Battles in DS9 done over 21 years ago look better and that in Standard Def.

    As for a season 2, yes it has been announced, but I am hearing it may not happen now. This is due to the whole Beer Bug thing. CBS wants a 40 million Tax Brake to film in LA. With the current crisis and a possiable world recession following it highly unlikely they will get it for that amount. I have also heard from multiple sources that Amazon does not want anything to do with Picard anymore. weather they pull out is down to the deal they signed with CBS. But if they do that is another revenue source that is lost to them.
    We already know Netflix wants out of there deal and are only paying the bare mini that they are contracted too.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    If they'd actually modeled that John Eaves concept, it would have been sweet. However, the ship on screen didn't appear to be that detailed.
  • FreakFreak1073 Posts: 4,345Member
    that's because it was a half arse job, just like the rest of show.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    Freak wrote: »
    that's because it was a half arse job, just like the rest of show.

    Yeah, pretty much what I was saying. They went cheap with the model and it didn't work as well as it could have. That's also why we got 200 of the same ship.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    If they'd actually modeled that John Eaves concept, it would have been sweet. However, the ship on screen didn't appear to be that detailed.

    Yeah ... it‘s pretty much the best you can do over a Weekend or so when given the concept drawing and being told to ... well ... make it so.

    Maybe they wanted to use Discovery ships for the Federation fleet (or „squadron“) but remembered the backlash that got, when they did it in „children of mars“ 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • TrekMDTrekMD188 Posts: 625Member
    According to Chabon there are four different types of Starfleet ships there but I'll be damned if I can see them. I think I saw three different engine designs but that's about it. It's unfortunate they didn't make a greater effort with the fleet. Some have mentioned that the coronavirus may have impacted this during postproduction. I wonder if there is any truth to that.
  • FreakFreak1073 Posts: 4,345Member
    Trekyards has done a break down of the Starfleet fleet and there is only one ship.
    But @TrekMD you are right, it the same ship but with different warp nacelle and pylon configuration. (Either moved forward or back on pylons.)

    So Chabon is wrong, there is only one ship class just different variations of it and no really big changes like the Nebula class with it AWAC Dish or Weapons Pod.

    You can very Trekyards break down here.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3497 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,514Member
    edited March 2020 #108
    You only see the hint of the eaves design in the forward saucer and if I remember it was inverted with a notch. What did not work was the horrible organic shapes of the ships. It was like the 80s US car market all over again where they just added rounded crap all over vs using it with any intelligence or design thought. What I saw and I am not re-watching the ep was a horrible much up of all the worst parts of a nova and a intrepid with some of the tossed out melted details of various concepts.

    If I were to follow design lineage of a sov and other latter TNG era ships I would expect something more angular more yachtish with long curving lines with hard edges. More like say a Japanese motorbike over a vw beetle.

    A for the romulan's it was all planar angular and well as said a kids foam cutout toy plane.

    Slop in the cgi was either due to poor budgeting (either not allocating or just paying out too much to non asset related things such as wadding all the budget to people vs sets or concept design production) or bad direction (horrible choices or not pushing staff far enough)
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • markmasseymarkmassey393 StaffordshirePosts: 521Member
    Ok so it's been a while since i've been on (had to reset my password and everything)

    I could go on and on about discovery and picard... i watched the first season of discovery and didn't bother with the second.. i watched the first episode of picard, and after the scene with his interview with the reporter, i thought i'd rather re watch the next generation again... which is sad but i'm currently half way through season 2, and don't get me work it has it's flaws and its cheesy 80's tv vibe..... but i can put it on and watch it with my kids.. my 8 year old daughter is pretending to be Dr Crusher as i write this she's made a lego tricorder to scan her teddies with.... i don't know what she'd get from Micheal burnham maybe punch me in the face and take over the house and throw bricks at our neighbors house i don't know???

    i also don't need to pause tng,ds9,voy,ent...every 5 minutes to take a break and ask someone what the f is happening????

    maybe tos gets a pause when kirk or someone starts slapping a woman around, which happens surprisingly often lool...

    I'm not a member of the fandom menace or anything, i'm quite happy for new trek to do whatever its doing, it's star trek just not as we know it.. and it's not for me unfortunately... I've still got the last 40 years of trek to watch and re watch, and as much as i'd love to see a real new series set post voyager...i'm good with that.
    evil_genius_180P5ych0p4thFreak
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    @markmassey, you're doing exactly what people who don't like the new shows should do. Instead of continuing to watch episodes of the new shows that you clearly aren't enjoying, you're going back and watching the older shows that you love. That's great. TNG really hits its stride in season 3, but there are still some really good episodes in the first couple episodes. The Measure of a Man is from season 2 and is one of the best episodes of the series, in my opinion. Heart of Glory is another great one, The Battle, Datalore, Conspiracy, Elementary, Dear Data, A Matter of Honor and Peak Performance are some other standouts for me. And, of course, any episode with Q is good and I always enjoy the Lwaxana Troi episodes. (at least until Dark Page)
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla521 HelsinkiPosts: 2,723Administrator
    I haven't actually gotten around to watching Picard yet, so I'm posting this blind, but Red Letter Media came out with their Picard review


    Haven't watched it, but I'm guessing now he didn't like it. :grimace:
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  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    It wasn’t one of his better reviews, but he‘s still right 😁
  • FreakFreak1073 Posts: 4,345Member
    @Guerrilla He reviewed the first half the season with RLM and was having difficulty getting though it.
    I believe this is a full season review so it should be interesting.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 335Member
    @Freak ... I think Rich simply refused to watch the finale, so Mike had to do something else 😁 ... you could see poor Rich Evans get more and more miserable through the episodes 😁
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