Also in place are the strange turret looking devices that you see in the second interior matte painting of the hanger in ROTJ, slung underneath the rack, in The Phantom Menace a similar device was repurposed as a hangar bay interior defensive turbolaser turret on the Trade Federation ship, but here it doesn't quite look like a weapon, more likely it serves a more benign purpose, not quite sure what it is to be honest, could possibly be a tractor beam array for guiding TIE Fighters back onto the rack, but it is anyone's guess really.
I've always thought it was for fire fighting inside the hangar bay. Fire fighting foam under pressure perhaps. It reminds me of the firefighting system in the Navy helicopter hangars in San Diego (from the USS Carl Vinson - used when the ship is in port and there are no aircraft left aboard except the fire fighting trainer aircraft). They don't look the same but look like they serve the same purpose.
That's an interesting idea regarding what that turret like device could be. I always feel however like in most space based fictions, that fire fighting in an installation such as this would involve venting the atmosphere out into space, or at the very least out of the compromised compartment, but that could be considered an extreme solution for a large volume of space such as this hangar. Still, just deactivate the force field over the entrance threshold and Bob's your uncle, no more fire.
Except it really isn't practical. You have a hangar full of people, some may be cut off from a safe route of egress and cannot get out, you could have injured that need evacuating but you still need to fight the possible ship fire. It is a whole lot easier just to fight the fire and save people than to dump atmo and kill off hangar crew. Storm Troopers may be numbers but as a tech I would not be thinking of myself as one.
Except it really isn't practical. You have a hangar full of people, some may be cut off from a safe route of egress and cannot get out, you could have injured that need evacuating but you still need to fight the possible ship fire. It is a whole lot easier just to fight the fire and save people than to dump atmo and kill off hangar crew. Storm Troopers may be numbers but as a tech I would not be thinking of myself as one.
You're assuming that the Empire cares about its minions. I never got that vibe watching the movies.
Indeed, the whole Imperial military doctrine doesn't really bring to mind a real concern for the survivability of their personnel, what with the practically suicidal design of the TIE series of fighter craft, no shields, lightly armoured, no hyperdrives, no (or very limited) ability to land without the support of larger Imperial craft or installations, not to mention tactics which just involve throwing superior numbers of fighters against the enemy.
Plus, the reason they supposedly stopped using clones for the Stormtroopers was because clones cost more money to make and replace. Humans, meanwhile, were found on many planets and could easily be replaced by drafting a new group. All they had to do was send them to basic training, give them a rifle and some armor, and they were good to go.
Wait I though the Storm Troopers where still clones in IV to VI?
Where was it mentioned that they are not?
After all the Ermpire could still program them to follow his command while humans without programing still try and save their lives instead of just thorwing it away.
I though it was just the command staff and techs that where non clones.
Also the Storm Trooper suits can be used as a spacesuit as seen in prequals. so venting the hanger deck would not be a major issue for them. It would just kill the techs
No, there are supposed to be some clones remaining in the Imperial military, but they had switched mainly to recruitment of humans for their Stormtroopers by the time of the original trilogy. Their purpose had been served already, and there was the expense issues mentioned above, but additionally it has been suggested that the initial genetic material provided by Jango Fett was not infinite, and that with his death the Kaminoans were denied the chance to get more so that material started to be stretched thin even during the Clone Wars, they made attempts to use genetic material from some of the better clones, but these results gleaned diminishing returns. I believe they also looked at alternative donors for this material, but none were as effective as the initial first generation clones. This was supposed to be some in-joke to explain why the Clonetroopers in the prequels were such excellent soldiers, but the Stormtroopers in the original trilogy sometimes had a hard time hitting the side of a barn. You also have to consider evidence from the movies such as the Empire's heavy recruitment drive with the likes of the Imperial Academy which Biggs Darklighter went to (and Luke was hoping to go to). So according to most sources (the movies themselves and various EU material) there are supposed to be a few clones remaining in the mix, but by the original trilogy Stormtroopers and TIE Pilots etc, were mostly human.
Thanks for the Explornation.
Though if Jango was that important and I was a Kamino, I would have gone looking for his body. Even if dead, you can still use his gentics to create troops as long as it was not left to long.
Then there is his son that, would have been the next best choice as his DNA was not altered so would be the next closest match.
Anyway where getting off topic. on to the next up date.
Thanks Wiz mate, and you're right Freak, so let's get back on topic with a quick update. Hitting ground level running I've just completed the lift shaft that is sunk into the floor, here are a few shots of how that looks, pretty pleased with it. Will use similar detailing for the front walls of the hangar too.
Awe, c'mon, off topic discussions are always so much fun. Of course, on topic is always nice too, especially when the topic is great modeling. And this definitely qualifies. Awesome work on the "pit."
That pit looks great.
If I remember correctly does'nt it have a small lift to one side. This was seen in ANH, as the Strom Trooper come up to gaurd the Falcan.
Yeah, it has a little lift platform for personnel, think Health and Safety would have a nightmare about that though.
:argh:
There'd also be a larger platform to transport ships up from the maintenance bays below with I guess, unless they use forcefields to move freight through the shafts. I've made the pit large enough to fit a TIE Bomber in keeping with the rack facility I've given the hangar, not sure if a Lambda could fit down there, would have to check the measurements.
in EP VI Deathstar Hangars I have not seen that Pit that wide in the middle of the hangar. When Vader arrives there was no Pit in his hangar but in the hangar the Emperor comes in there was one at the Engery Shied door (spell??)
Hi Chris, there is a pit in the hangar Vader lands in at the opening of ROTJ, you just can't see it in that shot, if you move on to the second shot within the hanger you can see it to the left of the screen, this is the one I've based my pit on, though I've made it a little larger as mentioned above.
[EDIT:] That's a damned fine clear shot of the hangar the Emperor landed in, clearer ref than anything I have, you capped that from the Bluray or something? I'll have that.
Here are a couple more shots so you can see how large the pit is in relation to the whole hangar. Those previous shots may have made it appear to be a little oversized for the hangar, but I don't feel it is myself, though it might need to be moved back a little there is still plenty of floor space on which to land a spacecraft.
Cheers, not looking forward to lighting this beast, have been able to cheat it with a skylight so far, but at some point I'm going to have to light this properly.
Last brace of screenshots for the night have a number of figures added to better show scale, and in addition we have our first exterior shot of the hanger looking in, and I've mounted the control deck observation port on the rear wall. TIE racks tomorrow then.
This is amazing work!! I have wee lil' crit, and it could be way off... But looking at your 2nd image of the size comparison (page 5), and the pics from the movie on page 1; the "feet" look taller and such on the still. If you take in account the machinery in front is about waist height. My calculation would put the bottom section of the foot about 2m above the standard 2m average height (if that made sense). Also looking at ChrisGFX's pic about the height from the floor(page 2), there's storage behind the feet; You'd need some room to place the storage by forklift or manually.
Other than my crit, you have done an amazing job, with the modeling and scale of the hangar.
Cheers for your comments Iczer. With regards to the feet of the bulkheads, I looked long and hard at the scaling of this detail earlier on in production as you'll see from checking out earlier entries in this thread. From the reference available and extrapolating as much as I could from the set based screenshots and the matte paintings I settled on the scale and proportions that I've used here as a happy medium between the two, allowing the look of the set but adjusting it so that I would also get the wider feel of the various matte paintings used. From looking at the set shots I figured that from the eye line in those that the foot of a bulkhead was just over the average height of a man. I might be mistaken in that calculation but that is the one I've gone with from what I have been able to tell from checking the reference. In addition with the height off the floor issue that ChrisGFX brought up, don't forget that in that distance you also need to include the fact that there is reflection that needs to be factored in there too, so the height is only half of that distance that Chris highlighted. Lastly regarding your point about the crates and what not seen under/behind the feet, this is the Star Wars universe and heavy machinery wouldn't necessarily be needed to lift such loads, a repulsor sled could easily be used to move this stuff around and aren't really all that large at all.
Appologies to all who thought the pit was too large, your instincts were correct. When I was looking at scaling the pit down I noticed that it was way bigger than the scale I had intended, being that it should just about fit the TIE Bomber for transit purposes. When I checked my calculations for that scale they were well off and then I realised I'd made an error with my calculations for the relative scale of the TIE craft to the hangar making them double the size they should be, which explains why the pit was so large looking in the hangar, glad I caught this when I did, though unfortunately this also meant that the TIE rack bays were equally off, so that is what I've been working on today, rescaling the rack details and adjusting parts to fit where necessary. Is a pain in the arse, but at least it has been sorted now, and the rack looks a little better for it. Still has the same number of bays, just a little more space between them due to the scaling down. Still, as someone on here said, if you don't screw up something that requires a rebuild then it hasn't been a successful project.
:rolleyes:
Here are some latest renders with everything scaled correctly, and a few additional features such as the consoles for the platform just beneath the observation deck.
Yeah the hangar that the Emperor lands in is massively bigger, even has some weird stuff going on near the front that almost suggests that it is directly linked to other hangars as the left wall stops short of the wall with the opening into space and there is further detail that goes beyond the corner.
Oh, and also for your information Chris, Vader's hangar is even smaller that the one you indicate in the above screenshot, it is actually the smallest lit hangar that you can see there (shows you how crazily big the Emperor's grand entrance hangar was doesn't it?). I'll post the screenie that shows Vader's shuttle approach to the hangar.
Mine is a little larger than the one seen in the movie, but as I continue to work on it it doesn't look like there is that much in it actually. The main thing that is making mine look so much larger in the energy field ring to the hangar's entrance, mine now looks too thin and the corners are too small, so I'm going to redo those next as I work on the front wall of the thing.
In fact Chris, can I take you up on that Bluray screenshot offer from earlier? If you could get me a sharper Bluray version of the above that would be really useful for figuring out what the ceiling details of the hangar should look like.
Yeah the hangar that the Emperor lands in is massively bigger, even has some weird stuff going on near the front that almost suggests that it is directly linked to other hangars as the left wall stops short of the wall with the opening into space and there is further detail that goes beyond the corner.
Oh, and also for your information Chris, Vader's hangar is even smaller that the one you indicate in the above screenshot, it is actually the smallest lit hangar that you can see there (shows you how crazily big the Emperor's grand entrance hangar was doesn't it?). I'll post the screenie that shows Vader's shuttle approach to the hangar.
Mine is a little larger than the one seen in the movie, but as I continue to work on it it doesn't look like there is that much in it actually. The main thing that is making mine look so much larger in the energy field ring to the hangar's entrance, mine now looks too thin and the corners are too small, so I'm going to redo those next as I work on the front wall of the thing.
In fact Chris, can I take you up on that Bluray screenshot offer from earlier? If you could get me a sharper Bluray version of the above that would be really useful for figuring out what the ceiling details of the hangar should look like.
Posts
I've always thought it was for fire fighting inside the hangar bay. Fire fighting foam under pressure perhaps. It reminds me of the firefighting system in the Navy helicopter hangars in San Diego (from the USS Carl Vinson - used when the ship is in port and there are no aircraft left aboard except the fire fighting trainer aircraft). They don't look the same but look like they serve the same purpose.
You're assuming that the Empire cares about its minions. I never got that vibe watching the movies.
Where was it mentioned that they are not?
After all the Ermpire could still program them to follow his command while humans without programing still try and save their lives instead of just thorwing it away.
I though it was just the command staff and techs that where non clones.
Also the Storm Trooper suits can be used as a spacesuit as seen in prequals. so venting the hanger deck would not be a major issue for them. It would just kill the techs
Though if Jango was that important and I was a Kamino, I would have gone looking for his body. Even if dead, you can still use his gentics to create troops as long as it was not left to long.
Then there is his son that, would have been the next best choice as his DNA was not altered so would be the next closest match.
Anyway where getting off topic. on to the next up date.
If I remember correctly does'nt it have a small lift to one side. This was seen in ANH, as the Strom Trooper come up to gaurd the Falcan.
:argh:
There'd also be a larger platform to transport ships up from the maintenance bays below with I guess, unless they use forcefields to move freight through the shafts. I've made the pit large enough to fit a TIE Bomber in keeping with the rack facility I've given the hangar, not sure if a Lambda could fit down there, would have to check the measurements.
... but maybe I'm wrong ...
Chris
[EDIT:] That's a damned fine clear shot of the hangar the Emperor landed in, clearer ref than anything I have, you capped that from the Bluray or something? I'll have that.
no, the pic of the hangar the emperor landed in I fond somewhere on the web.
If you need some Screencaps from the ROTJ BluRay just let me know
:thumb:
Here are a couple more shots so you can see how large the pit is in relation to the whole hangar. Those previous shots may have made it appear to be a little oversized for the hangar, but I don't feel it is myself, though it might need to be moved back a little there is still plenty of floor space on which to land a spacecraft.
This is amazing work!! I have wee lil' crit, and it could be way off... But looking at your 2nd image of the size comparison (page 5), and the pics from the movie on page 1; the "feet" look taller and such on the still. If you take in account the machinery in front is about waist height. My calculation would put the bottom section of the foot about 2m above the standard 2m average height (if that made sense). Also looking at ChrisGFX's pic about the height from the floor(page 2), there's storage behind the feet; You'd need some room to place the storage by forklift or manually.
Other than my crit, you have done an amazing job, with the modeling and scale of the hangar.
:rolleyes:
Here are some latest renders with everything scaled correctly, and a few additional features such as the consoles for the platform just beneath the observation deck.
Looking at that screen shot of the ROTJ, is looks like there is another pit near the hanger bay entrance.
yes ... but I think its in the "emperor" hangar. I haven't seen it in the "Vader" hangar. Looks like they have used different Hangars?
Oh, and also for your information Chris, Vader's hangar is even smaller that the one you indicate in the above screenshot, it is actually the smallest lit hangar that you can see there (shows you how crazily big the Emperor's grand entrance hangar was doesn't it?). I'll post the screenie that shows Vader's shuttle approach to the hangar.
Attachment not found.
Mine is a little larger than the one seen in the movie, but as I continue to work on it it doesn't look like there is that much in it actually. The main thing that is making mine look so much larger in the energy field ring to the hangar's entrance, mine now looks too thin and the corners are too small, so I'm going to redo those next as I work on the front wall of the thing.
In fact Chris, can I take you up on that Bluray screenshot offer from earlier? If you could get me a sharper Bluray version of the above that would be really useful for figuring out what the ceiling details of the hangar should look like.
Cheers in advance.
I'll make you some when I'm at home from office