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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-



  • HelotHelot391 Posts: 164Member
    Um... Awesome?

    Yeah, awesome.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Some interior stuff to see through those windows.
    I probably wont super detail this much past maps for things and maybe model monitors or something. Mostly the console and side walls are seen from outside.

    24'8.5" L
    35'9.5" W
    12'8.5" H



    Something yet to be fine tuned. Not sure if it is obvious or not but I did shift the side doors back. It does mean I have to re-cut the side decal but I was not fully happy with it anyhow.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    lights and junks for the windows. Also messing about with the markings on the nacelles. There will be a space eventually where the registry will reside.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • PixelMagicPixelMagic471 Posts: 663Member
    Thanks for posting these. You and a couple of others are about the only one's keeping this forum alive anymore. Heh.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    For the heck of it I cloned one of the aft windows forward. I am still meh about it as fewer places for possible flash exposure the better but then again you could justify windows having fast acting filters so they can control exposure.

    Interior before the window
    Yes it is a lot of cloning but I figure I will likely never render a interior shot and this is just to support exterior view. Displays are just temp as I will have to make my own or source free use images.

    Layout to accommodate the window.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    How it looks with that added window from the outside. Also a view of an idea for panels. I do not really want to do a heavy frame or heavy panels on the hull. I imagine this thing is more of a large slab or molded hull. But I do feel I need to add something in detail or as signs of manufacturing and ability to maintain it.


    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Well back at this thing. SO means I am taking a bit of a break from that shuttle. It is kind of odd going back to a old mesh and figuring out where you were headed when you dumped it. Looking this thing over there is a mess of things I want to do differently but I just do not have the time to blank out large sections of the ship. One being the short aft end, it is very compact compared to the front half. But then again Klingon ships have that odd look to them in perspective vs top down or from the side as perspective distorts size. I do think i will have to adjust the color of this thing to have it's details be more visible to the viewer.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • CreativeZollerCreativeZoller61 Posts: 0Member
    Your works as always are AMAZING. I really like the future Klingon design is back in action, I liked it back in the days :) Can you share how to make these kind of nicely matt/reflective materials? All is so naturalistic like jumped out from a ST movie :)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    I use mental ray materials so it might not be reproducible in other packages.
    What I do is up the reflectivity, toss a filth map in the glossy slot (mental ray has no specular)

    Diffuse I use a mix of some color or material (usually very faint filth or paneling and I mean FAINT) and use a composite to blend (think photoshop layer blending) the AO shader so it grimes up the inside corners. Some software will have a AO shader you can add noise to the darkened area or a texture. IE produce proper filth.

    Included is a flowchart thing showing where materials go and rough idea of the maps appearance. I pretty much used a photo of some polished concrete I took with my camera at home depot, or similar warehouse store. I will also always shoot pics of rusty cars and buildings too.

    Klingon general hull.
    hell I need a 4k display to use this editor with any consistency. Takes up too much room and is a nightmare for large projects. HAH. Does make it easier to show what a material is doing.

    including a few other random charts none are really recent but might help. shrug

    Older fed ship hull
    This is a bit of a ehhh pearl effect, more of a fakery paneling. man do I hate this sites http icon based url code generator!!

    metallic patterned hull used on the NX13 model


    probably do not need all those bloody fall off materials. I have not looked at this mesh in a while so I do not remember the material fully.
    sample of ship in question.

    random mental ray settings. Mostly FG settings

    lighting crap

    I think I have more of these things but these are what work as single images that I have online. I should some day post all of these on my blog and make some sort of coherent order for some of them IE I have multi image tuts that were used on forums that mean little as a set of images without text! lol.

    Anyhow best suggestion is use a renderer and material system that best replicates real world surfaces and lighting environments. IE if you put diffuse red glass in front of a light it should tint that light. IE shadows of bussard glass should be tinted not gray. Light should bounce off objects and reflect the non absorbed light. Generally if you see specular and gloss separated it means fake surfacing. Specular is not a real thing. What we see as specular is just surfacing IE texture of a surface and glossiness of that material. Think of gloss paint on sandpaper.

    Ah subdivision tuts. Shows using what is called smoothing groups in MAX. Likely called something else in other apps this allows you to easily clean up crap loops and optimize your mesh. It also allows you to control loops without all that double and triple looping that is required without smoothing groups.
    example of a base mesh with subdivision and with smoothing groups active and not active.
    more views of results.

    Saucer decimation example and example of loops to control smoothing. Also example of panels and separating up an object to work on. Idea is to merge it all back as a single object later.

    modifying a curve to create 90deg crossing edges so chamfering later is even across the object. (mostly a max issue as any edges crossing not near 90deg means uneven chamfers.

    UVW projection: using a square tiled map to make spherical hull spread.

    Wireframe showing detached segments of objects for faster viewports and to cheat at unique patterns when UVWed.


    proper glow effects, something even pros **** up.
    2 should read glows are suppose to be additive, they DO NOT, mask, darken, or obscure. (hint using normal layer is wrong)

    tip is to run a separate glow pass, preferably one for each effect. IE ship windows separately so you can adjust those. Ship glows like engines or warp grills etc so you can increase or control the blurr IE glow and intensity. Example image follows
    basicly i turn off all lights or GI efx and let the lum materials or self ilum materials glow.

    Only tools I have ever found in max to properly do this is a all in one is the glare lens shader you set up in the render area not in any post or composite setting in app.
    glare lens examples

    keep in mind this being done in app is not a good thing as if your animating finding a few seconds out of a week long render look like arse really, REALLY sucks so doing this crap in post is best.

    OK now I think that is all of it hahahahah uh ok overboard yes?

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    This thing is back too. hahah some major changes like inverting the struts and pulling the hull back down it matches the original doodle's look more than it did before.




    Here is the original painting for reference.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • WideFootWideFoot83 Posts: 81Member
    I'm excited to know that you're continuing work on this ship! I enjoy it's unusual shape. Trek Ships breaking norms are somewhat of a rarity, so I really like to see them.

    (That feels weird to say because I am in the midst of a project specifically purposed for conformity)

    I think my favorite detail is the dark area along the leading edge of the nacelle pylons which widens into the deflector surround. I would bet that's a unique design component.

    The back end of the engineering hull makes me think of the end of "I Want You" by the Beatles. It builds and then suddenly ends. And, it's great like that! Although, I'm not sure what you're going to do with the blue neon bar that follows the curve back there or how you'll shoehorn decks into it.

    I'm not sure I like the fan on the bottom front of the saucer. It seems to me that the main form of the ship starts wide in the nacelle pylons and rear of the engineering section; then it collects through these elements to a point above the deflector and shoots upward via the neck, piercing through the saucer. Finally, it breaches the top of the saucer and rests on top of it in the form of the long bridge module. That fan on the bottom front of the saucer is sort of a non-sequitur to all of that.

    But, I'm definitely looking forward to updates on this!
  • CreativeZollerCreativeZoller61 Posts: 0Member
    I would not reply with quoting the whole post but thanks for the detailed answer ^^ I am not saying it's easy to take in at once but.... I would lie if I say I understand half of them - it's because u have very advanced level of knowledge in working with 3ds max, and me not :/ However I think you should really make those into one new tutorial on your site ;) It really helps a lot for people like me who is 'just starting' to dig to the deeps of these kind of modelling. Anyhow thumbs up for the 25th century return also :)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    A bit cheesed off as I was going to show scale and realized I did not double check my scale or somewhere I decided to model this at a similar scale as the ENT D. While everything works at that scale it just looks odd next to a Galaxy class. SO as I cannot just scale thing as it fuqs up the extrusion chamfer measurements. IE if I doubled the size and I extrude 2ft it really is extruding 4 to 6 ft. Resetting xform etc wont correct this so I am now having to attach all the crap as a single object so I can scale it in poly edit mode which is the ONLY way to enlarge a model and have it fit with others. I also imported a galaxy class and heh it came in at 640ft vs 640m. So this might have been part of the original screw up as this is close to the scale I wanted for this.

    I might have to abandon this project as I do not think I can meet deadline with the scale and detail.

    Anyhow uh a lot of the upper bridge details are junk now. As they are all a bit too small. by about a third. I might be able to use them I might not. One render is where it was at this morning. . . . the other is the ship as a blocky enlarged object next to a galaxy class for scale.

    3300ft/1009m roughly in length. Given I had planned this as a 1701-G I am guessing she would be some 100yrs post TNG. I forget where the F falls in and the J is a bit errrmmm as 2550ad that is a lot of enterprises to flush down the toilet between the SOV 2373 and 2550. So more like 60yrs?

    Memory beta says the F came in on 2409. . . . easily less than 150yrs to flush 4 ships. O_o;'


    AUGH cardinal rule broke!!! forgot creds!

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • SeanPSeanP218 Posts: 256Member
    Wow, that actually looks really cool! I likey a lot! :)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    I think this is the rough shaping locked down. Included are two of the ugliest views of this thing IMHO, top and bottom, though bottom always had a ok feel due to the lines on the saucer. The top though always looked squashed and unbalanced. Urge always was to revert back to the really old drawings of similar ships from 08. All of which are based off the long and likely forgotten pancake class. Sadly a lot of these images (least the masters) are long lost to the reformat gods and dead hdd gods. Almost everything I did in 08 is gone. Anyhow all moot. I will include a lq image to show what I mean by elongating the hull. See the top down image ONLY and pretend those bottom aft swept struts were gone.


    I had considered just modeling some random post TNG/VOY era ship from scratch. namely something small like that top down image.






    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • BlueNeumannBlueNeumann669 Posts: 1,318Member
    I really dig that! The elongated neck, the nacelles, the way the dish is integrated into the curves? Great. Reminds me of the kind of ships I tend to draw.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    apparently I did not save the top down render. . . . . .


    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • BlueNeumannBlueNeumann669 Posts: 1,318Member
    The top is interesting... I thought looking at the other images that all those shapes on top would be connected together... I was actually thinking of the separating section from the Galaxy Quest Protector.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    The saucer is all subdiv so I cannot have all the details showing or plans for the bits. Though I was going to follow what was done in the past for speed. But likely this will back burner to get the time it needs to be properly modeled.

    The arches are part of a drive system and there are no bits that come off on this ship. The lack of use in TNG clearly shows how cumbersome the logistic are with it.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Just taking a spin at blocking in that older image and taking some ideas from this far future ship and applying them to a much smaller ship that is a NX testbed ship.

    Rough drawn top down. Proportions are not right on and as always drawings are just suggestive. Example is getting the saucer thick enough to allow those huge bays.
    #d model has a fully circular saucer all the way out I had thought to just make cutouts into it but I might actually make only the inner parts fully round and subdiv the other bits into it to make it a non circular shape like in the drawing.

    Tenativly this is a early slipstream testbed or some other alt warp testbed. ALT ft whatever. It can be a fun run up to the larger farther future ship. I have yet to decide on the aux deflector cutout. Idea is this cutout would have additional deflection fields and could be used for other projection uses. Like maybe a huge gravity polarizer? It would also house pulse phasers and torps like my Linerunner does. Or some other fun things. Maybe I can toss all of that and put a fly through shuttle bay in and use this as a evac spaceframe/test bed? dunno possibilities. Intent is she is no more than 400m in length. (ATM 391m)





    Definitely keep in mind this is all rough block in. Many shapes are multiple objects right now and some are singles which will be broken up once I decide on form. The one thing that is clearly up in the air are the nacelles. Length shape with etc are all unknown atm.

    It will likely be this odd eggblue but with SOV like patterning. I figure this will be in testing some time in the 2380/90s Planned reg is NCC - 98100 or NX - 98100 but I have not hunted registries yet.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Not much effort today, spent it reading.Slowly working out shapes etc. Ignore how the dish area of the deflector appears as it is missing all the inset framing the one on the Galaxy has. I plan to do that or something similar with this element in the center. Though maybe some segmented affair AKA the Voyager might work too. Pretty much that whole lower flared section is deflector control as it would relate to the new FTL design. Be it warp, transwarp, slipstream, reconfiguration to avoid subspace damage or whatever was going in in NX dev in the late 2300s. The actual warp drive components will be in the "neck" if you could call it that.

    The outer rim of the saucer, least the fore and flanking will be massive sensor rooms with a few windowed rooms for people working in those sections. The central blister is where most habitation will be. The bridge is large as with this being planned as a experimental it would have twice the stations for monitoring things or acting as last wall defense against some automated system going wrong. I might be tempted to do a lifeboat like section here where the whole core and bridge can ejector seat off the saucer if things go foul. MMM Anyhow just early brain vomit nothing solid atm as I could easily change parts or handwavium some other excuse for something being how it is. Real thing to mull over is how I want these warp drives to look.





    I should be avoiding the books tomorrow, so things should speed up.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Smallish update mostly refining subdiv parts. The impulse drive bits likely are going to be reverted and cut when I collapse the stack and box model those buggers in as well as looking at ways to mimic the shuttlebays in the painting, which means extending that hull in some way.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Any votes on what the test bed would be for?
    Tanswarp slipstream or alternate geometry warp (that whole warp 5 limit thing voy was designed to alleviate or get around) Idea is this wont req bendy struts.

    Updates again are just a mess of adjustments to things and better workflow for the objects. IE I separated the struts and deflector hull from that central extrusion as it really served no purpose being a single object but to add complexity and annoyance to adjusting or altering shape. I am considering a alternate deflector housing to what I have. I still feel the Galaxy class style is more advanced looking than the blockier Rick Sternbach style trek. I do plan to add a collection of those little orange pads he would have on ships near the deflector. The voyager and equinox? had them. If I do the cutout on the saucer it will have them on the lower hull as well as that curved deal above the main deflector. Idea on this long neck shape is that it all ties into deflection control. It is all a means toward whatever field control is needed for whatever new FTL tech is being developed. I am thinking field manipulation and shaping.

    The dish itself I guess I will model up a few quickies and have everyone give opinions on each. KIM what I have now is mostly placeholder, more detail will go into it over time. Things like the slats and better shaping to collect the LUM glows and other bits of detail around the lip.





    Then it is on to the bit I have been putting off. . . the nacelle design. Likely do a paintover to work that out. I am leaning towards doing something unusual vs anything traditional. KIM this will be a late LATE 2300 ship or early 2400s IE 2370~2410. This is to at least try to retain some KNOWN details and construction. So you will see things like SOV lifeboats, paneling similar to the SOV (might have to fine eyeball some NEM refit detail as I am NOT educated on the changes to that or have anything but that last scene in 1080p for refs. Odd you would think SOMEONE has that mesh or textures and could put something out.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • markmasseymarkmassey513 StaffordshirePosts: 587Member

    looks like the discovery with a bit more thought and design gone into it.... :)

    top marks as usual..
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Think the discovery is a lot of pinched ideas from the net. Most of this is bits of crap I have been working with since before 06.

    If I were to pull anything off that design as seen in the teaser Id do something with the pseduo Daedalus class ball in the middle. Say a sphere with framing leading to labs in a saucer shape. I have way too many TOS era projects so if I were to explore that it will be quite some time from now! hah I am itching to get back to "wedge trek" but that has to wait for this project to finish.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • markmasseymarkmassey513 StaffordshirePosts: 587Member
    Sorry I wasn't implying that you'd based this design in the discovery..

    I was complimenting the design whilst venting my displeasure with the discovery.. ''but this isn't the place for that'' but the fact that this is a load of crap slapped together just adds insult to injury in my opinion... ;)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Discovery: the real issue for me is just looking at it you cannot place it anywhere in the canon timeline without cheating and looking at the registry. Just bits of stuff from all over the timeline and some stuff that is wtf. There is a reason the ISS looks the way it does, it is the same reason why the TOS connie looked the way it did and had things in common with the ISS. So for me the whole blocky hull makes me look sideways at it.

    Who knows though they probably kneejerked hard and tossed it for something else. Really if they want a Connie contemporary they should just get versed in all things TOS and just modernize it.

    Big disappointment the 103 in the reg has nothing to do with the shuttle Discovery but something as droll as oct 31st.

    I can understand wanting to be different but you can be different without building a car with the wheels on top. :p

    The wedge trek I had a hard time defining the BULK the triangle/pyramid hull provides in dead space. The DISC with the huge mass of hull just does not fit anything short of a generational ship with loads of crew or a passenger ship? I doubt anyone would want to stick any engineering machinery in those 2~3 deck thick integrated wing/struts, shields or no. Oh well long and short it makes no sense to me in form, design, and fitting into any particular timeline of trek canon.

    uh, way WAY off track hahaha.

    The whole relating one thing to another is a bit of a peeve for me. It often causes others to parrot and push opinions towards the related thing instead of where the project would go otherwise. Dunno if that makes any sense. It was not meant as me jumping onto your throat, more of a flat denial.

    Anyhow the original comment and my insta reply, got me thinking about all the other models/doodles that had style queues that lead to this ship and the G. Somewhere I have doodles and more images but these happen to be on the blog.








    I have to say influences from coolhand/atolm, Doug Drexler (J) Vektor (I think, the swooped nacelles with the hunchback/central impulse) and many more. Probably Eaves for the hole in the middle. I think all of this grew from complaints abut the J being to FLAT and how everything was FLAT. I had to agree at that point it did seem even in fan work that everything was awfully FLAT.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • markmasseymarkmassey513 StaffordshirePosts: 587Member
    Sorry to get you off track... and i really didn't mean to get you fired up :) I've made a mental note to never make a comment like oh this looks like ............ on your threads again... ;)

    I guess i should have taken my issues out on the discovery in another thread.. But hay as long as whats happening inside the ship is quality story telling, who really cares that the ship looks the way it does..

    I think what i was getting at when comparing your design was that looking over the thread and on these latest images, you show that it is possible to rail against classic trek design.. you can throw in hard edges and screw around with hull proportions, and play with the rules of trek design, but keep the elegance of a star fleet vessel.. I know that last bit is completely subjective.. I'm sure i'm going around in circles here haha... when all i needed to say originally was great model as usual.. love how you push the classic trek design to its limits.. and cant wait to see how it comes along.. :)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Ah dont worry about it. It was late for me and just stupid kneejerk reply.

    Dont worry about going off on tangents not like we will go too far off the rails. I have been holding my tongue on the Discovery for a while now so it just triggered me. Hence I spew forth rage about it. hah. Well not rage, rage is some of those youtube comments or blogs WOW. hah more like crits.

    Not much new as I got lazy during my time off yesterday and then spent the evening rendering out some 50th images and silly nuts made them 4k so they took forever to render, then my internets took a crap for 8 hours. . . . . . . . . heh.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9848 Posts: 5,335Member
    Well after some time off that shouldn't have been taken. . . lol Feeling off and then spending some of that meh time rendering connies. Decided I did not like the neck deflector housing interface so I decided to merge them all up and better reflect the original painting. Also new bridge structure. It should provide a decent bridge and a load of officers offices or crew rooms. Most of the tall aft deck bumps will be getting split up or divided up into smaller details as right now most are 3 decks high.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
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