From what I can tell, the Lunar orbital plane only has an inclination of 5 degrees over the ecliptic (solar path) and 20 degrees over Earth's equator.
I put these numbers into 2 DIFFERENT 2D VIEWS from a lunar orbit. View ONE is from the Moon Directly over head...the steepest possible approach to San Fransisco which is 37 degrees from the Equator... The Angle of Impact from this position is 72 degrees. (Lunar Noon)
View TWO is a projection of View ONE exactly at the Horizon (Lunar Dawn) That Angle of Impact is at 31 degrees give on or 2 degrees more for Earth Spin in the span of 15 minutes (which I'm not sure about) In any case Lunar Dawn or Setting Moon is a far more specific time and less likely.
The best likely strike is between 35 and 72 degrees.
E.L.E (Extintion Level Event) is attributed to the annihilation of the ship's antimatter which would result from any fall from any orbital distance at any angle. 7,000 Mega tons is a lot. Almost as much as the total nuclear arsenal of the World. This would result in a nuclear winter alone.
Which is what I said, but if someone is determined to ignore what was seen in the film and replace it with "Facts" of his own invention, there is very little you can do.
An ballistic trajectory asteroid simulator, is not going to tell you what happens to a 23rd century spaceship coming down to earth, still partially under control.
Saying it went from the moon to the earth in 15 minutes and basing the speed on that is a total fallacy, or are we meant to assume that baby Kal El got to earth in 8 minutes from Kypton?
Star trek into darkness is not 24, events are not meant to be happening in real time.
Which is what I said, but if someone is determined to ignore what was seen in the film and replace it with "Facts" of his own invention, there is very little you can do.
An ballistic trajectory asteroid simulator, is not going to tell you what happens to a 23rd century spaceship coming down to earth, still partially under control.
Saying it went from the moon to the earth in 15 minutes and basing the speed on that is a total fallacy, or are we meant to assume that baby Kal El got to earth in 8 minutes from Kypton?
Star trek into darkness is not 24, events are not meant to be happening in real time.
I'm not determined to ignore you, Biotech, but you've not given me any reason to suggest the defense of these movie events are possible.
-You're being vague. How much time do you think elapsed Biotech?
-It takes at least 90 minutes to orbit the Earth from 230 miles up....
-In order to come in at that angle you need to at least make one decaying orbit...(which we did not see)
-Both ships were crippled. What makes you think Vengeance was under "control"?
-What makes you think Star Trek ships are indestructible in a collision?
-What makes you think a planet space ship collision would not result in the annihilation of it's antimatter?
How much time do you think elapsed Biotech?
Who knows, or indeed cares, I was watching a film.
-It takes at least 90 minutes to orbit the Earth from 230 miles up....
Who says they were in orbit? Since they were crashing to earth, by very definition they weren't in orbit.
-In order to come in at that angle you need to at least make one decaying orbit...(which we did not see)
Or have a starship, again, they aren't flying an asteroid. Starships can assume an orbit, they don't have to, they would be pretty crap at their jobs if they relied on orbits and slingshots to get everywhere, you are stuck in 20th century thinking.
-Both ships were crippled. What makes you think Vengeance was under "control"?
By the dialogue in the film. Or did you think it a total coincidence that Khan was trying to crash into starfleet headquarters and still managed to hit San Fransisco?
-What makes you think Star Trek ships are indestructible in a collision?
Nemisis, the episode where the defiant crashed, the episode where voyager crashed, to name but three.
-What makes you think a planet space ship collision would not result in the annihilation of it's antimatter?
What makes you think it would? The g forces from going to warp would dwarf the g forces of that hit into water.
Its a 23rd century starship, not a ford pinto.
Who knows, or indeed cares, I was watching a film.
Then what is the nature of your objection if not a critical analysis of the film's science?
-It takes at least 90 minutes to orbit the Earth from 230 miles up....
Who says they were in orbit? Since they were crashing to earth, by very definition they weren't in orbit.
This is very simple Biotech. We know the ships were holding position just out from the Moon. Neither were moving. The moon was not receding nor getting closer. Neither was the Debris Field...This is called an orbit In order to maintain an orbit one must be traveling a great deal of speed.
(Did any one see the debris field fall? I didn't it stayed right where it was.)
-Crashing describes the nature of contact.
-Reentry describes an object (not just re entering the atmosphere) entering the atmosphere at a high rate of speed. If a vessel experiences heating from reentry then it is at least traveling at 15,000 mph. This speed is enough to put it into a stable orbit. That being the case it is appropriate to assume that Vengeance was in Orbit.
Or have a starship, again, they aren't flying an asteroid. Starships can assume an orbit, they don't have to, they would be pretty crap at their jobs if they relied on orbits and slingshots to get everywhere, you are stuck in 20th century thinking.
That requires a greater amount of speed and Delta V.
Greater than 25,000 MPH in order to break the Earth's gravitational influence. (the nature of this objection justifies my assumption of a abnormal amount of speed.)
-To fall from Earth to the moon requires Years.
(we've covered this. I don't understand the nature of your objection)
By the dialogue in the film. Or did you think it a total coincidence that Khan was trying to crash into starfleet headquarters and still managed to hit San Fransisco?
-Be more specific.
What does the Dialogue say?
Nemisis, the episode where the defiant crashed, the episode where voyager crashed, to name but three.
-Voyager didn't experience reentry (Despite a seemingly high speed) and compacted 3 or 4 decks.
-(Defiant's Landing was not seen and is a much smaller ship
-Sovereign didn't crash into a planet or anything else at a violent rate of speed.
What makes you think it would?
The distance traveled and the time it took to travel that distance. (commonly known as velocity)
The movie's sense of urgency is predicated on less than 10 minutes (I gave it 15) I could be wrong but this is my perception of the events as they happened.
The g forces from going to warp would dwarf the g forces of that hit into water.
No they would not.
Starship's experience no G Forces in acceleration and deceleration. The TNG tech manuals specifically state that the Galaxy Class Starship is incapable of surviving on the surface of a planet such as Earth without collapsing under it's own weight. THUS it can't even withstand one G.
(which is why the saucer wasn't salvageable)
This new ship is constructed on the Ground and must be presumed capable of at least 1G.
However it does not necessary follow that it can survive multiple G's of warp because warp is a field propulsion completely defying inertial physics, other wise they would experience time dilation.
Its like talking to a brick wall, this is why I dropped out of the conversation before, you are so convinced you are correct, if a starship actually crashed into your city you would still say it was impossible.
No I cant give you the exact dialogue from the film, I saw it a month ago, I enjoyed it, I didn't think I would need to quote entire scenes verbatim to a complete stranger on the internet.
Its like talking to a brick wall, this is why I dropped out of the conversation before, you are so convinced you are correct, if a starship actually crashed into your city you would still say it was impossible.
No I cant give you the exact dialogue from the film, I saw it a month ago, I enjoyed it, I didn't think I would need to quote entire scenes verbatim to a complete stranger on the internet.
You and me are done.
(shrug)
Science very often seems like a brick wall.
Until you give me more this is all we have.
(Additional)
The Galaxy Class carries 3,000 cubic meters of Antimatter
At one 1 lb per Megaton...that is a release of 8572.952 GIGTONS of TNT. 240 GIGATON would be enough to destroy the planet.
Galaxy is carrying enough destructive force to destroy earth 35.7 times over...(wow)
Which justifies Galaxy having enough torpedos to take out a planetoid
or Voyager having enough destructive force to lay waste to an entire solar system in Scorpion Part II.
Well, after Spock yells "Khan!" We see the Vengeance come speeding right past the rear end of the Enterprise in a pretty much vertical dive, then we cut to the shot where Khan is giving the computer destination orders... then the Vengeance begins to level off, but doesn't quite clear Alcatraz, so it takes it out and crashes face first into the water... and still has enough momentum to come crashing through the city...
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So they are implying that what ever caused them to "fall" out of orbit was no longer a factor or that Khan purposely launched the Vengeance at California and Enterprise was the only ship actually un-powered.
So that makes me wonder:
Did the Enterprise just happen to fall over California?
Was it Khans attempt to getaway? (why Star Fleet?)
Was he going after Star Fleet? and why? His people were on the Enterprise)
All I know, is that the Enterprise's power systems began failing and they started to drift, but as the Enterprise comes swooshing around in this shot:
The Enterprise seemed to have gotten a lot closer to Earth than it was, despite just starting to drift... of course, when they were knocked out of warp, Sulu said they were 237,000 kilometers from Earth... which is only little over 147,264 miles.
Yea, the chances that the Enterprise just happened to fall towards Earth over San Francisco is kinda remote...
I still didn't completely grasp why Khan was on this vendetta, something about how Admiral Marcus used his friends to control him... so I guess he wanted revenge... I mean you know Khan, lol.
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Because if so you sure don't seem like you were paying attention.
Neither did you...who couldn't say what Khan said concerning his control of the ship...
Were you paying attention?
It sounds like Abrams was trying to write himself into the final action scene on Earth with Spock and Khan since he was going to kill & revive Kirk.
-The drift turns into a fall into the atmosphere
-Dramatic running over a tumbling ship to get the reactor
-Dramatic Kicking an Antimatter Reactor Death Scene
-Crash into a city
-Jumping from car to car chase and finally subduing the bad guy with hot chick help.
I can see Abrams in the Editing Room. "It's too slow, It's too slow" every step of the way...
Paying enough attention to follow the plot, not remember lines from a month ago.
Khan demanded the torpedoes be beamed aboard containing all his people.
Spock had the people taken out, but sent the bombs in with live warheads and detonated them on Khans ship.
At no point for the rest of the film did anyone tell Khan his people weren't in the torpedo's when they were detonated.
In his mind he had lost everyone he had ever cared about, and it was all starfleet's fault, and Kirk and Spock in particular, so he took his battered ship and aimed it at the enterprise, expecting to catch up with it and smash through it, because the enterprise was falling at terminal velocity, and Khan's ship still had power, although much reduced manoeuvrability.
When the enterprise regained its engines it pulled up out of its original dive, and the Vengeance missed, since he had lost his chance with Kirk and Spock he headed for starfleet headquarters instead, knowing that to kill everyone there would hurt K&S as much as loosing his crew hurt him.
I do not have a photographic memory for lines, but I make up for it by being able to follow a film without every single tiny plot point being spelled out to me.
Paying enough attention to follow the plot, not remember lines from a month ago.
Khan demanded the torpedoes be beamed aboard containing all his people.
Spock had the people taken out, but sent the bombs in with live warheads and detonated them on Khans ship.
At no point for the rest of the film did anyone tell Khan his people weren't in the torpedo's when they were detonated.
In his mind he had lost everyone he had ever cared about, and it was all starfleet's fault, and Kirk and Spock in particular, so he took his battered ship and aimed it at the enterprise, expecting to catch up with it and smash through it, because the enterprise was falling at terminal velocity, and Khan's ship still had power, although much reduced manoeuvrability.
When the enterprise regained its engines it pulled up out of its original dive, and the Vengeance missed, since he had lost his chance with Kirk and Spock he headed for starfleet headquarters instead, knowing that to kill everyone there would hurt K&S as much as loosing his crew hurt him.
I do not have a photographic memory for lines, but I make up for it by being able to follow a film without every single tiny plot point being spelled out to me.
For a great deal of the film I followed the plot rather easily.
At the end I was paying just enough attention to follow the science. I could not understand why the Enterprise was falling to Earth so quickly. And after the rip off of the Wrath of Khan in the scenes following I lost a tremendous amount of interest in the ending.
I honeslty think it was major time lapse on part of the editors to keep the pace of having that whole sequence. Combine in the fact that, the Enterprise wasnt really in orbit of the earth or moon, was violently hurled toward the earth, I can see how she "drifted" toward the planet.
As for San Fransisco directly lol, yeah thats a stretch.
Which means another thing, Khan would have had to actually have the computer plot a course for S. Fran, which I believe furthers the point of his ship coming in at a shallow angle and just enough to not blow the containment chamber. Which I believe did an Emergency Shutdown anyway after he got internal combustion lol
I honeslty think it was major time lapse on part of the editors to keep the pace of having that whole sequence. Combine in the fact that, the Enterprise wasnt really in orbit of the earth or moon, was violently hurled toward the earth, I can see how she "drifted" toward the planet.
As for San Fransisco directly lol, yeah thats a stretch.
Which means another thing, Khan would have had to actually have the computer plot a course for S. Fran, which I believe furthers the point of his ship coming in at a shallow angle and just enough to not blow the containment chamber. Which I believe did an Emergency Shutdown anyway after he got internal combustion lol
I'm not sure why you guys think the ship wasn't in orbit but orbital dynamics don't work like that. And don't ask me why I paid more attention to this than the plot points...
but when Enterprise dropped from warp there and had an exchange between Vengeance and Enterprise both verbally. Scotty stops Vengeance just before Robocop fires again. The whole time the moon is on the right hand corner of the screen. The earth is on the Left (too close)
There is only 3 options.
1-Orbit: The Enterprise retro fires into a stable orbit (which makes sense coming from superluminal speeds)
2-No Orbit: The result of which the ship would have been falling from the get go at 5,000 mph at which case it takes 2 days to hit the atmosphere. (still requires retro fire to down to 67,108 mph, Earth's speed around the sun.
3. The Enterprise is suddenly knocked out of orbit (at which point it takes a spiral course taking several years to impact.
-That's why it's clear to me the two ships were in orbit (and no one said we're falling to the Earth)
-Containment can never loose power because that's what will set of the antimatter.
I'd like to add a couple of comments if i may, just to join in..
i'm not going to talk about the science, because in all honesty i'm too stupid.. and i think that analysing the science in this film is a little like going to into a forensics lab and saying "you're all doing this wrong, this isnt how its done on csi miami"..
by all means i'm not saying that you cant i just feel that you'd have better luck catching smoke in a net..
i'll start by saying that this whole movie takes place over 2 days ish.... from the time scotty leaves the enterprise to the battle over the moon, scotty says "one bloody day ive been off this ship"....... so they travelled all the way to the Klingon home world and back again.... well no! they travelled some of the way to the Klingon home world then shuttled the rest of the way.. then shuttled back to the enterprise then back to earth... How many light years is that?? how long would that take at warp 9 using actual trek science???
i know you could say that scotty just said that to be funny, but it wasn't written by scientists... these guys wrote lost for gods sake... saquist is right on the money.... the writers... this is an action film not a documentary.. came up with a bunch off cool sequences and then had to join them together with a plot.. in the face of that how can there be any real analysis of the science behind the film.. surly that wall crumbles at the first chipping???
but like i said.. we are all free to think and do what ever we want, so i'm not saying you cant...
for the films ending...
we get the typical "trek" shinzon.... villan.. shinzon needed picard alive all the way through the fillm.. is what drove the "story" untill the end where the director says we need to wrap this up now guys... shinzon!!!, go nuts and kill piccard please
Harrison was striking at a specific target or so we were told. it was a calculated attack.. so that we and kirk could get "behind the mind of a terrorist" and empathise with him.. then at the end he can go crazy and just try and kill everyone and destroy starfleet headquaters.. because you know... this movies been going on for an hour and a half already so we kind of need things wrapping up... but lets have kahn and spock fighting at the end that would look cool... its an action movie...
i like how once the torpedoes exploded, you forgot about the vengeance.. until she ripped past the enterprise... i took that as an attempt by kahn to ram them on the way down.... sulu says that was close.... i took this to mean that they saw the vengeance coming at them and moved out of the way.... but you have to assume that things can happen off camera for that.
so yea its the end of the film, the bad guy tries one last ditch effort to take down kirk and star-fleet in 1 go.. might as well ram the ship into SFHQ im super man, i can just jump off the ship afterwards and disappear into the crowds when im done..
was a good action scene... good tense ending ... i liked it..
"you know what would be cool paul??? if all of a sudden, the power went out and the ship suddenly starts free falling to earth" Thats how that sequence was born..
kind of like.. there's too much scifi here... you now what would be cool.. if we had a car chase scene in the middle of this film.. whhhaatttt!!!!!!
Me? I just go to the movies to be entertained and leave all reality and reasoning at the door. The movie was meant to be entertaining and I was very entertained. I leave reality at the door so I can enjoy transporters, phasers, warp speed and especially Alice Eve.
haha, yea, for this movie you'd have to leave those at the door... sure it may you think to a degree, but not as much as some other Trek movies or TV series'...
Entertaining? Yes.
Well, phasers and warp speed might not be that far from reality, at least up to the speed of life... I mean, lasers are getting pretty powerful... as for transporters, it might be a while before we have anything like that, but I've read there have been some interesting tests done with single atoms or whatever, was really cool.
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Me? I just go to the movies to be entertained and leave all reality and reasoning at the door. The movie was meant to be entertaining and I was very entertained. I leave reality at the door so I can enjoy transporters, phasers, warp speed and especially Alice Eve.
One should not have to leave all reason at the door. Suspension of disbelief works for the setting and tech and whatnot up to a point but not nearly so much for the incredibly hackneyed plots.
The tradeship that they used to get to Kronos, was confiscated from Henry Mudd :P
Abrams is good at putting references and in-jokes like that into things. He also used parts of the character bios that were usually ignored by others too which is good. I just wish he had done it in a way that made sense instead of making JJTrek a campy caricature if the original show.
Well, I've caught wind of a potential Blu-ray and DVD release dates for the J.J. Abrams sequel Star Trek Into Darkness.
Please remember that this is unconfirmed by the studio and could very well change between now and when the Blu-ray/DVD is actually released. Nothing is official until the studio formally announces it.
The Blu-ray and DVD release date for Star Trek Into Darkness that I have is September 10, 2013.
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Posts
From what I can tell, the Lunar orbital plane only has an inclination of 5 degrees over the ecliptic (solar path) and 20 degrees over Earth's equator.
I put these numbers into 2 DIFFERENT 2D VIEWS from a lunar orbit.
View ONE is from the Moon Directly over head...the steepest possible approach to San Fransisco which is 37 degrees from the Equator... The Angle of Impact from this position is 72 degrees. (Lunar Noon)
View TWO is a projection of View ONE exactly at the Horizon (Lunar Dawn) That Angle of Impact is at 31 degrees give on or 2 degrees more for Earth Spin in the span of 15 minutes (which I'm not sure about) In any case Lunar Dawn or Setting Moon is a far more specific time and less likely.
The best likely strike is between 35 and 72 degrees.
E.L.E (Extintion Level Event) is attributed to the annihilation of the ship's antimatter which would result from any fall from any orbital distance at any angle. 7,000 Mega tons is a lot. Almost as much as the total nuclear arsenal of the World. This would result in a nuclear winter alone.
An ballistic trajectory asteroid simulator, is not going to tell you what happens to a 23rd century spaceship coming down to earth, still partially under control.
Saying it went from the moon to the earth in 15 minutes and basing the speed on that is a total fallacy, or are we meant to assume that baby Kal El got to earth in 8 minutes from Kypton?
Star trek into darkness is not 24, events are not meant to be happening in real time.
I'm not determined to ignore you, Biotech, but you've not given me any reason to suggest the defense of these movie events are possible.
-You're being vague. How much time do you think elapsed Biotech?
-It takes at least 90 minutes to orbit the Earth from 230 miles up....
-In order to come in at that angle you need to at least make one decaying orbit...(which we did not see)
-Both ships were crippled. What makes you think Vengeance was under "control"?
-What makes you think Star Trek ships are indestructible in a collision?
-What makes you think a planet space ship collision would not result in the annihilation of it's antimatter?
Who knows, or indeed cares, I was watching a film.
-It takes at least 90 minutes to orbit the Earth from 230 miles up....
Who says they were in orbit? Since they were crashing to earth, by very definition they weren't in orbit.
-In order to come in at that angle you need to at least make one decaying orbit...(which we did not see)
Or have a starship, again, they aren't flying an asteroid. Starships can assume an orbit, they don't have to, they would be pretty crap at their jobs if they relied on orbits and slingshots to get everywhere, you are stuck in 20th century thinking.
-Both ships were crippled. What makes you think Vengeance was under "control"?
By the dialogue in the film. Or did you think it a total coincidence that Khan was trying to crash into starfleet headquarters and still managed to hit San Fransisco?
-What makes you think Star Trek ships are indestructible in a collision?
Nemisis, the episode where the defiant crashed, the episode where voyager crashed, to name but three.
-What makes you think a planet space ship collision would not result in the annihilation of it's antimatter?
What makes you think it would? The g forces from going to warp would dwarf the g forces of that hit into water.
Its a 23rd century starship, not a ford pinto.
Then what is the nature of your objection if not a critical analysis of the film's science?
This is very simple Biotech. We know the ships were holding position just out from the Moon. Neither were moving. The moon was not receding nor getting closer. Neither was the Debris Field...This is called an orbit In order to maintain an orbit one must be traveling a great deal of speed.
(Did any one see the debris field fall? I didn't it stayed right where it was.)
-Crashing describes the nature of contact.
-Reentry describes an object (not just re entering the atmosphere) entering the atmosphere at a high rate of speed. If a vessel experiences heating from reentry then it is at least traveling at 15,000 mph. This speed is enough to put it into a stable orbit. That being the case it is appropriate to assume that Vengeance was in Orbit.
That requires a greater amount of speed and Delta V.
Greater than 25,000 MPH in order to break the Earth's gravitational influence. (the nature of this objection justifies my assumption of a abnormal amount of speed.)
-To fall from Earth to the moon requires Years.
(we've covered this. I don't understand the nature of your objection)
-Be more specific.
What does the Dialogue say?
-Voyager didn't experience reentry (Despite a seemingly high speed) and compacted 3 or 4 decks.
-(Defiant's Landing was not seen and is a much smaller ship
-Sovereign didn't crash into a planet or anything else at a violent rate of speed.
The distance traveled and the time it took to travel that distance. (commonly known as velocity)
The movie's sense of urgency is predicated on less than 10 minutes (I gave it 15) I could be wrong but this is my perception of the events as they happened.
No they would not.
Starship's experience no G Forces in acceleration and deceleration. The TNG tech manuals specifically state that the Galaxy Class Starship is incapable of surviving on the surface of a planet such as Earth without collapsing under it's own weight. THUS it can't even withstand one G.
(which is why the saucer wasn't salvageable)
This new ship is constructed on the Ground and must be presumed capable of at least 1G.
However it does not necessary follow that it can survive multiple G's of warp because warp is a field propulsion completely defying inertial physics, other wise they would experience time dilation.
No I cant give you the exact dialogue from the film, I saw it a month ago, I enjoyed it, I didn't think I would need to quote entire scenes verbatim to a complete stranger on the internet.
You and me are done.
(shrug)
Science very often seems like a brick wall.
Until you give me more this is all we have.
(Additional)
The Galaxy Class carries 3,000 cubic meters of Antimatter
At one 1 lb per Megaton...that is a release of 8572.952 GIGTONS of TNT. 240 GIGATON would be enough to destroy the planet.
Galaxy is carrying enough destructive force to destroy earth 35.7 times over...(wow)
Which justifies Galaxy having enough torpedos to take out a planetoid
or Voyager having enough destructive force to lay waste to an entire solar system in Scorpion Part II.
Khan: "Set destination: Starfleet Headquarters."
Computer: "Engines compromised. Can not guarantee destination. Confirm order."
Khan: "Confirm."
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If they had thrusters then Khan didn't have to crash at all.
(just like the Enterprise)
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So that makes me wonder:
Did the Enterprise just happen to fall over California?
Was it Khans attempt to getaway? (why Star Fleet?)
Was he going after Star Fleet? and why? His people were on the Enterprise)
Because if so you sure don't seem like you were paying attention.
The Enterprise seemed to have gotten a lot closer to Earth than it was, despite just starting to drift... of course, when they were knocked out of warp, Sulu said they were 237,000 kilometers from Earth... which is only little over 147,264 miles.
Yea, the chances that the Enterprise just happened to fall towards Earth over San Francisco is kinda remote...
I still didn't completely grasp why Khan was on this vendetta, something about how Admiral Marcus used his friends to control him... so I guess he wanted revenge... I mean you know Khan, lol.
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Neither did you...who couldn't say what Khan said concerning his control of the ship...
Were you paying attention?
It sounds like Abrams was trying to write himself into the final action scene on Earth with Spock and Khan since he was going to kill & revive Kirk.
-The drift turns into a fall into the atmosphere
-Dramatic running over a tumbling ship to get the reactor
-Dramatic Kicking an Antimatter Reactor Death Scene
-Crash into a city
-Jumping from car to car chase and finally subduing the bad guy with hot chick help.
I can see Abrams in the Editing Room. "It's too slow, It's too slow" every step of the way...
Khan demanded the torpedoes be beamed aboard containing all his people.
Spock had the people taken out, but sent the bombs in with live warheads and detonated them on Khans ship.
At no point for the rest of the film did anyone tell Khan his people weren't in the torpedo's when they were detonated.
In his mind he had lost everyone he had ever cared about, and it was all starfleet's fault, and Kirk and Spock in particular, so he took his battered ship and aimed it at the enterprise, expecting to catch up with it and smash through it, because the enterprise was falling at terminal velocity, and Khan's ship still had power, although much reduced manoeuvrability.
When the enterprise regained its engines it pulled up out of its original dive, and the Vengeance missed, since he had lost his chance with Kirk and Spock he headed for starfleet headquarters instead, knowing that to kill everyone there would hurt K&S as much as loosing his crew hurt him.
I do not have a photographic memory for lines, but I make up for it by being able to follow a film without every single tiny plot point being spelled out to me.
For a great deal of the film I followed the plot rather easily.
At the end I was paying just enough attention to follow the science. I could not understand why the Enterprise was falling to Earth so quickly. And after the rip off of the Wrath of Khan in the scenes following I lost a tremendous amount of interest in the ending.
I honeslty think it was major time lapse on part of the editors to keep the pace of having that whole sequence. Combine in the fact that, the Enterprise wasnt really in orbit of the earth or moon, was violently hurled toward the earth, I can see how she "drifted" toward the planet.
As for San Fransisco directly lol, yeah thats a stretch.
Which means another thing, Khan would have had to actually have the computer plot a course for S. Fran, which I believe furthers the point of his ship coming in at a shallow angle and just enough to not blow the containment chamber. Which I believe did an Emergency Shutdown anyway after he got internal combustion lol
I'm not sure why you guys think the ship wasn't in orbit but orbital dynamics don't work like that. And don't ask me why I paid more attention to this than the plot points...
but when Enterprise dropped from warp there and had an exchange between Vengeance and Enterprise both verbally. Scotty stops Vengeance just before Robocop fires again. The whole time the moon is on the right hand corner of the screen. The earth is on the Left (too close)
There is only 3 options.
1-Orbit: The Enterprise retro fires into a stable orbit (which makes sense coming from superluminal speeds)
2-No Orbit: The result of which the ship would have been falling from the get go at 5,000 mph at which case it takes 2 days to hit the atmosphere. (still requires retro fire to down to 67,108 mph, Earth's speed around the sun.
3. The Enterprise is suddenly knocked out of orbit (at which point it takes a spiral course taking several years to impact.
-That's why it's clear to me the two ships were in orbit (and no one said we're falling to the Earth)
-Containment can never loose power because that's what will set of the antimatter.
i'm not going to talk about the science, because in all honesty i'm too stupid.. and i think that analysing the science in this film is a little like going to into a forensics lab and saying "you're all doing this wrong, this isnt how its done on csi miami"..
by all means i'm not saying that you cant i just feel that you'd have better luck catching smoke in a net..
i'll start by saying that this whole movie takes place over 2 days ish.... from the time scotty leaves the enterprise to the battle over the moon, scotty says "one bloody day ive been off this ship"....... so they travelled all the way to the Klingon home world and back again.... well no! they travelled some of the way to the Klingon home world then shuttled the rest of the way.. then shuttled back to the enterprise then back to earth... How many light years is that?? how long would that take at warp 9 using actual trek science???
i know you could say that scotty just said that to be funny, but it wasn't written by scientists... these guys wrote lost for gods sake... saquist is right on the money.... the writers... this is an action film not a documentary.. came up with a bunch off cool sequences and then had to join them together with a plot.. in the face of that how can there be any real analysis of the science behind the film.. surly that wall crumbles at the first chipping???
but like i said.. we are all free to think and do what ever we want, so i'm not saying you cant...
for the films ending...
we get the typical "trek" shinzon.... villan.. shinzon needed picard alive all the way through the fillm.. is what drove the "story" untill the end where the director says we need to wrap this up now guys... shinzon!!!, go nuts and kill piccard please
Harrison was striking at a specific target or so we were told. it was a calculated attack.. so that we and kirk could get "behind the mind of a terrorist" and empathise with him.. then at the end he can go crazy and just try and kill everyone and destroy starfleet headquaters.. because you know... this movies been going on for an hour and a half already so we kind of need things wrapping up... but lets have kahn and spock fighting at the end that would look cool... its an action movie...
i like how once the torpedoes exploded, you forgot about the vengeance.. until she ripped past the enterprise... i took that as an attempt by kahn to ram them on the way down.... sulu says that was close.... i took this to mean that they saw the vengeance coming at them and moved out of the way.... but you have to assume that things can happen off camera for that.
so yea its the end of the film, the bad guy tries one last ditch effort to take down kirk and star-fleet in 1 go.. might as well ram the ship into SFHQ im super man, i can just jump off the ship afterwards and disappear into the crowds when im done..
was a good action scene... good tense ending ... i liked it..
"you know what would be cool paul??? if all of a sudden, the power went out and the ship suddenly starts free falling to earth" Thats how that sequence was born..
kind of like.. there's too much scifi here... you now what would be cool.. if we had a car chase scene in the middle of this film.. whhhaatttt!!!!!!
Entertaining? Yes.
Well, phasers and warp speed might not be that far from reality, at least up to the speed of life... I mean, lasers are getting pretty powerful... as for transporters, it might be a while before we have anything like that, but I've read there have been some interesting tests done with single atoms or whatever, was really cool.
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I never leave that at the door.
One should not have to leave all reason at the door. Suspension of disbelief works for the setting and tech and whatnot up to a point but not nearly so much for the incredibly hackneyed plots.
Good god, man. Try to keep up.
Khan didn't have to crash the ship, he WANTED to crash the ship.
It was a suicide attack - think 9/11
The tradeship that they used to get to Kronos, was confiscated from Henry Mudd :P
Yeah someone already told me.
Abrams is good at putting references and in-jokes like that into things. He also used parts of the character bios that were usually ignored by others too which is good. I just wish he had done it in a way that made sense instead of making JJTrek a campy caricature if the original show.
Please remember that this is unconfirmed by the studio and could very well change between now and when the Blu-ray/DVD is actually released. Nothing is official until the studio formally announces it.
The Blu-ray and DVD release date for Star Trek Into Darkness that I have is September 10, 2013.
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I really didn't know how much that was true until this by Mr. Plinket
(Note there is strong language)
http://youtu.be/HeyLm-pLVm4
With 716 episodes of star trek shows and 12 movies, there are bound to be some things that seem familer.
That's like watching a James Bond film and complaining we had seen him fire his gun before.