That's true but we've also seen where the ship does drop immediately out of warp. So plot variable is impacting the results.
LOL, the plot variable and what I read in "Physics" (something along the lines of utilizing negative mass/energy to force open a wormhole for travel or blah blah) is why Im inclined to let the whole "Enterprise escaping the black hole" thing go.
I've read about these and more...there are few varieties. I should probably commit them to memory.
Yeah, I didn't know until recently myself, and the more you look the weirder they actually start to get. Such as the whole spinning rim black hole, you could use for FTL travel, but if you go through youll end up in a different universe every time you do theoretically. Well thats of course if you do "force" its "throat" to stay open thereby getting your wormhole.
This is why Voyager ejected all it's warp plasma from the nacelles because even just a little would create a minor gravitational field distortion. There is another way to look at it. Apparently Star Trek fields aren't so much MASS Attractors but Mass inhibitors. Ultimately the difference in the gradient would have the same resulting destruction of the planet. (which is why I concluded that a single torpedo could do unprecedented damage to a planet's surface)
[Normally matter slows down the Higgs field (meaning space slows down in the presence of matter. This is called inertia.) Space at it's normal rate expands and accelerates. This acceleration creates a difference in relative motion between objects. This is what we call gravity.]
But this means rather than "TOWING" a Black hole (A massive gravitational distortion) starships are altering the speed of the Higgs Field indirectly. Effectively a subspace field can do just about anything. Slowing down the Higgs field to a relative zero will reduce the gravitational constant (create a free fall effect between the two objects and nullify their gravitational influence.) Or it can amplify the speed of the Higgs field around an object like a black hole and "move" faster than light.
What ever those warp coils are made of is the real doosy.
We can't manipulate any other force other than Electromagnetic force and Kinetic Force (which isn't a fundamental Force) Trek can obviously manipulate the Higgs Force indirectly by means of radiant energy. It's the only Force that is faster than light or can move faster than light.
Let me place my cards and bias on the table, anything done in Voyager I have to take with a grain of salt because I just didn't like it (disbarring Seven and Kim). I rather watch Enterprise. That said...
Though she's done that, arent there cases when they disregarded that precaution? Or other times when starships (like someone mentioned the BOP in Voyage Home) had active warp fields in a planet's atmosphere? Im not gonna deny that a warp bubble on a planet will not seriously frick up the magnetic field of a planet and wreck havoc. I guess now, Im just curious if they can do so on very micro levels to make it negligible.
Finally saw it. Kept myself spoiler free up until the opening credits.
Three words:
Not a fan.
What a waste of two otherwise excellent villains. And what is it with Cumberbatch ... does he have to show ALL his teeth every time he enunciates or attempts to show rage?
LOL, the plot variable and what I read in "Physics" (something along the lines of utilizing negative mass/energy to force open a wormhole for travel or blah blah) is why Im inclined to let the whole "Enterprise escaping the black hole" thing go.
Voyager has always vented the nacelles before landing. This was perhaps skipped during a crash landing in Timeless.
The BOP warping sequence I considering an error of background or an error in effects because seconds later we see the same effect in space above the planet and certainly in the time expened the Bounty would be well past the moon even at light speed.
So I think we were supposed to see a burst of speed at impulse and then warp once in space instead of two warp sequences.
Yeah, I didn't know until recently myself, and the more you look the weirder they actually start to get. Such as the whole spinning rim black hole, you could use for FTL travel, but if you go through youll end up in a different universe every time you do theoretically. Well thats of course if you do "force" its "throat" to stay open thereby getting your wormhole.
I've got this book on the subject. I've read it twice.
The Reissner-Nordstrom Singularity
Blackholes don't carry any attribute other than mass to the singularity. All other information is lost according to Schwarzchild.. Reissner discovered if matter carried a net electrical charge before reaching infinite density (the point singularity) the quality would be retained in a magnetic field beyond the Event Horizon.
(Considered Impossible)
Ker Blackholes
Formed from spinning stars (which most stars do) these blackholes would preserve that spinning in angular momentum and pick up speed during it's collapse into a blackhole. (like a skater pulling her arms inward). The Singularity is shaped like a RING. An object passing through the RING SINGULARITY would emerge on the other side of the universe where gravity is a repulsive, rather than an attractive, force.
Kerr Blackholes have an ergosphere:. This is a region just outside the event horizon where space-time, although not curved in upon itself, is dragged around the hole, much ilke water in the vicinity of a drain. Escape from the Erogosphere is still possible but only for objects moving at near light speed.
---Practical Use--- Roger Penrose discovered an advanced civilization could extract energy from the ergosphere and the blackhole. If a chunk of mater was injected into the ergosphere at a glancing angle so that it broke into two pieces inside, and if one of the pieces was to continue into the blackhole while the other escaped, the latter piece would come out with more energy than the original matter possessed. The extra power would be stolen from the rotational energy of the black hole. The continued process would cause the black hole to stop spinning.
Hawking's Exploding Black Hole
By applying quantum physics to an area around the black hole he discovered they could radiate energy to the point of explosion. This is done with virtual particles that appear everywhere in space and self anhialate (because they're antimatter equals to each other) partiles that spring up near the event horizon will lose one particle to the singularity leaving the other to escape the black hole and self annihilation. The energy from this creation comes from the blackhole itself. Thus as this happens the Blackhole is losing Mass and Energy.
Stellar Black Holes could not radiate enough to expire before much longer than the age of the universe had passed.
Hawking theorized Primordial Blackholes created during the BIG BANG would have radiate enough energy by now to be getting hotter and smaller to accelerate their rate of emission enough to explode. No such explosion have been detected.
White Holes
Similar to Hawkling's Exploding Black Holes but have nothing to do with quantum physics, begining as a singularity, eternally gush matter and energy. This energy and matter in some circles is thought to be in orbit of a blackholes within the event horizon where all the energy and matter not directly passing into the black hole falls into orbit or to be sourced from thee bottomless pit created by the singularity itself which has no gravity.
(for me this implies that a blackhole looses it's mass just as quickly and this doesn't happen rather matter falling into the blackhole adds to it's total mass.)
Wormholes: Einstien-Rosen Bridge
While some thought these to be a sort of exit from that bottomless pit, the mathematical Wormhole would be smaller than a subatomic particle and would pinch shut the moment anything passed through the throat. This didn't describe the gushing fountain that would source a blackhole.
---
So the the thought that White Holes and Wormholes stem from Blackholes must inevitably ask, with the prelevance of Blackholes at the heart of nearly every Galaxy and stellar blackholes roaming those Galaxies then why haven't we detected White Holes or worm holes.
I believe the prevailing thought is not merely that it's exit is the other side of the universe (for surely the other side of the universe is sure to have stars and black holes) but that they may exit to a completely different universe or are part of the quantum foam (theorized as the origin of the Big Bang) and thus our universe spawns other universes as we were spawned from some other universe.
---
My Thoughts
I curtail all this again with the fact that Black holes just get bigger and bigger. The matter and energy aren't going any where else. Once matter goes into a singularity it is gone. The gravitational field reaps the benefit of that matter's existence but the matter itself is gone forever. Literally and directly converted into energy. The singularity isn't some black star with a hot surface sitting inside an event horizon. No matter how close you get to it you'll never reach it. It's infinitely small and infinitely dense defying all explanation beyond that. Infact it's impossible for matter to exist on that "level or levels". It's beyond the quantum level. And if matter can't exist on that level, neither can time. This is the realm of the Higgs field.
Matter gives us a clue as too what happens at such impossible levels when we remove nearly all the heat from gases and get within reach, but never reaching, absolute zero. At this level the particles of matter begin to take on the traits of the quantum level, being particles yet behaving like waves as though linked together. This may imply that blackholes are linked together and maybe the reason why the universe's temperature is perfectly ambient even over the entire 14 Billion light years we can see rather than a receding explosion
It's something to think about....
Let me place my cards and bias on the table, anything done in Voyager I have to take with a grain of salt because I just didn't like it (disbarring Seven and Kim). I rather watch Enterprise. That said...
it's okay. I liked Voyager but it had some poor moments.
The movie was good visually, nice action scenes, but it didn't feel like the WOK, and I didn't get the sense that Kirk, McCoy, and Spock had really bonded.
And what happened to, "of all the souls I've encountered, his was the most huuuu, uu, uu, uman".
But then again, it would have to be Kirk saying it, and well...
Quick Fixes that would greatly improve Star Trek Into Darkness.
As I have stated before I did not care for the new Star Trek movie, I found there to be many poorly written scenes, and really the whole thing felt rushed and unpolished. After some thinking I feel that the following small changes would make a big improvement on the film, warning spoilers ahead:
1) At the beginning to do not have the big-E under water, aside from the issues of putting a space ship under water, it makes no logical sense to land a starship with teleporting ability on a planet. Instead have the Big-E make an atmospheric insertion to rescue Spock from the Volcano due to the interference caused by the ash cloud.
2) Get your technobabble right, Cold Fusion is a form nuclear power generation that can be done at room temperature, not a something that freezes lava, and that is just one example.
3) Instead of Starfleet demoting Kirk, simply have Admiral Pike transfer his flag to the Enterprise. Remember Kirk is the hero who saved Earth, a demotion, especially in the wake of a terrorist bombing would be a huge moral blow to all. Have Pike explain that he will be there to watchdog over Kirk and keep his decisions on the right track. Also when they meet up in the bar, have Pike make reference to Kirk’s service before joining Starfleet, maybe on a merchant ship as second or first officer, closing that gaping plot hole from the first film.
4) When Harrison attacks the HQ have help arrive sooner, this is Starfleet HQ after all, and when he teleports out make the device burn out giving only a rough vector that he teleported out on. This can then be used to state that he used Scotty’s tech to teleport onto a passing freighter outside of the system, like maybe a Tellerite, Orion or other race. Harrison then hijacks the ship and takes it to the Klingon Home World. State that it will take the ships x number of days to reach Kronos, say 4 days, but that the Enterprise can catch them if they leave now.
5) When loading the torpedoes onto the Enterprise let Scotty still protest, and make it clear that Kirk is upset because they have already lost a day waiting for the torpedoes to arrive and all supplies to be loaded. Introduce Carol Marcus (via Alias) at this point as being the expert in charge of the weapons, still have Scotty “quit.”
6) Give chase to Harrison, but he reaches Kronos ahead of the Enterprise, Enterprise intercepts the freighter and borrows one of their shuttles to capture Harrison, giving them a cover story. Insert a throwaway line about how Kirk has time to cool his head and not fire the super torpedoes, instead opting to capture Harrison because he is realizing that something is rotten inside Starfleet.
7) All Kronos scenes can remain the same but make reference to the area they find him in being irradiated, either from an accident or war, so they must limit their time there, even the discovery of what is in the torpedoes as the Enterprise is heading back to Earth.
8) Don’t have Scotty inject the tribble, that is just bad science, instead just have him make reference to Kahn’s healing ability, stating that is why he was able to stay so long in the irradiated zone of Kronos where they found him.
9) After Harrison/Kahn’s interrogation, where he reveals the location of the Vengeance shipyard, have Kirk contact Scotty, quitting was all a ruse as Kirk was suspecting something amiss before they left, and had Scotty stay behind to investigate. Scotty then uses the experimental teleporter, which he repaired to teleport into the space dock of the Vengeance undetected, and as a little joke a small beagle appears right after him, he picks it up to see that the tag reads “Porthos III” the dog that he teleported prior to the first film, which got him exiled.
10) Have the Vengeance intercept the Enterpise on their way to Earth, and give chase, culminating with the battle over Earth. Even have ADM Marcus taunt Kirk that he sent the fleet away to reinforce the border and prepare to strike Klingon targets, ADM Marcus will be the real big bad in this.
11) Still have Scotty disable the Vengeance allowing Kirk and Kahn to board, even have Kahn still kill Marcus and teleport Kirk, Scotty, Carol and Porthos back to the Enterprise. Even have him teleport the torpedoes back aboard, but once they explode have Kirk, whose ship is crashing towards Earth appeal, to his humanity, like he did for Nero, and promise Kahn to help his people if he helps Kirk save his ship.
12) Kahn then makes the noble sacrifice to repair the warp core of the Enterprise before it can crash. Have Scotty make reference to how long he was gone, a week instead of a day. As the Enterprise is lifting away safely have them try to stop the Vengeance from crashing, but they don’t have the power and are too damaged, so all they can do is slow the impact, limiting the damage, otherwise that crash would have been an extinction level event.
13) Have Kirk make good on his promise shipping Kahn and company off to an out of the way world, Seti-Alpha V, and either show them sometime in the future with Kahn still alive, having healed himself, or as they are being sent off show him smiling in his cryopod.
What these changes do is make the story more a retelling of Space Seed than Wrath of Kahn, with some TWOK reference still thrown in for good measure. It also allows for a real TWOK type sequel down the road, and for the timeline to do one of two things, given that JJ Abrams is leaving Trek, and allows whoever picks it up after him to make the choice.
1) It puts Trek back on the track towards the original timeline with minimal changes, SF realizes that things are amiss and really looks at itself and how to fix that.
2) It allows the series to continue to diverge, but in a more controlled manner, ie. Scotty’s transwarp teleport is for the most part a one shot deal, they can’t use Kahn’s blood to cure death (the biggest Pandora’s box they opened in this one), etc…
There was no way this movie could have made everybody happy, but things could have been done to make it a really great movie, it just kept slipping off the mark.
I think that would have made everyone happy.
I like how you jogged back the whole starship crashing from Earth to moon for surely if a mere Rod of God traveling at 25000 MPH would cause a nuclear like explosion the hole and and the loss of the sun from a 600 meter Brick surely would have destroyed all life on the planet.
I have not seen "into darkness" yet but if it is like the 2009 movie it probably does not even look like it had a script. The 2009 one was just a jumble of skits with little thought to how it all fit together. I kept expecting one of the main cast to turn to the camera and announce "Live from New York, its Saturday night!".
I think that would have made everyone happy.
I like how you jogged back the whole starship crashing from Earth to moon for surely if a mere Rod of God traveling at 25000 MPH would cause a nuclear like explosion the hole and and the loss of the sun from a 600 meter Brick surely would have destroyed all life on the planet.
Aside I thought that was far more competent.
The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was six miles wide, and still didn't kill all life on earth, and that was solid rock, not a honeycomb of metal containing a lot of air, that had only travelled a fraction of the distance the asteroid did, and was travelling much slower.
Once upon a time, Star Trek was about a utopian future, people striving to better themselves as they grew into a huge galaxy full of glory and wonder. Let us share a moment of silence in respect for those departed days.
The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was six miles wide, and still didn't kill all life on earth, and that was solid rock, not a honeycomb of metal containing a lot of air, that had only travelled a fraction of the distance the asteroid did, and was travelling much slower.
A tungsten rod as tall as a telephone pole would create nuclear potential of a Hiroshima's bomb. That's only 9 tons traveling at 15 kps
The idea is to launch it from earth and pick up speed by sling shot around the moon by which it exceeds the velocity to break Earth Orbit but is instead directed into an Earth Target. 1 mile blast area.
Now imagine what 4.5 million Metric tons can do falling from the moons orbital velocity of 2, 236.
The Vengeance covered the distance in record time. Say around 15 minutes. That's a velocity of 94,800 mph. That's more than 3 times the speed and millions times the mass.
Combined with the anti matter on board the ship????
Yeah, I think Extinction Level Event is apt.
Yeah, I think no life on Earth is apt too.
Seeing as we only have what we saw in the film as evidence of how fast the vengeance was travelling, I see absolutely no evidence of the ship travelling at close to 100,000 mph as it went through the atmosphere.
Plus where did you pull that weight figure from?
Additionally you care comparing an object designed specifically to enter the atmosphere without resistance in a vertical attack going through the least amount of air, to a starship with a large surface area, coming down at a very shallow angle, where every second it travels through the air the wind resistance would be reducing its descent to earth's terminal velocity.
As for the antimatter?
Again from the film, no evidence the ship actually exploded.
I can't comment about the whole velocity, weight, mass deal, but as for the lack of a devastating explosion... the Vengeance must have had one heck of an antimatter containment system...
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Well by definition it would probably be the most sturdy and well protected part of the ship.
Plus we have also seen the defiant and Voyager crash into planets without the anti matter going up.
Hell, nuclear containers in the 20th centuary were built to withstand train and plane crashes, I would link youtube videos of this, but cant get on that site at work.
You should go look for them, the slow mo of a phantom jet ploughing into a nuclear reactor's outer wall is fascinating.
Well by definition it would probably be the most sturdy and well protected part of the ship.
Plus we have also seen the defiant and Voyager crash into planets without the anti matter going up.
Hell, nuclear containers in the 20th centuary were built to withstand train and plane crashes, I would link youtube videos of this, but cant get on that site at work.
You should go look for them, the slow mo of a phantom jet ploughing into a nuclear reactor's outer wall is fascinating.
Yea, which is funny in a way, since it seems like even moderate battles seem to just ruin containment integrity and risk a warp core breach...
Spent so much time and money on fortifying the structure that houses nuclear reactors, but did nothing about making sure they have lower chances of meltdowns, etc.
Yea, I've seen that video.
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Seeing as we only have what we saw in the film as evidence of how fast the vengeance was travelling, I see absolutely no evidence of the ship travelling at close to 100,000 mph as it went through the atmosphere.
I just gave you the evidence. It's up to you to accept it or reject it.
The moon is 237,000 miles away. Apollo 11 took 3 days to travel to the moon at "Earth Breakaway speed."
To merely fall out of orbit would have taken months even as much as two years. I don't care about whether JJ Abrams meant to show such this result or effect from what he filmed. This is merely the REAL results of his film choices.
Plus where did you pull that weight figure from?
Doesn't matter.
At the size a Nimitz Carrier this would have been significant 100,000 Tons
At the Size Voyager this would have been significant 700,000 Tons
At the size of Galaxy this would have been significant 4,500,000 Tons (whoops there it is)
Additionally you care comparing an object designed specifically to enter the atmosphere without resistance in a vertical attack going through the least amount of air, to a starship with a large surface area, coming down at a very shallow angle, where every second it travels through the air the wind resistance would be reducing its descent to earth's terminal velocity.
Good point...wait!
Lets run it through the Impact calculator!
Parameters:
200 Meters Diameter
Velocity 42 Kps
Angle 90 degrees
Density: (Iron like)
Target Sedimentary Rock
Distance 1,000 km
(Explanation: Trek confirms that ships are made out an element. No such element exist on the periodic table therefore this element can't be made in stellar furnace therefore must have been made in an extremely rare reaction of high energy more than a supernova. Probably a Hypernova. Therefore this means it's density is much much higher than Iron. Therefore this means these numbers are extremely conservative.)
7,063 Megaton Blast
Passage through the Atmosphere (Brief 2 or 3 seconds)
Crater Depth 573 Meters
Crater Diameter 9 km (5.59 Miles across)
This is 6x times the diameter of Meteor Crater in Arizona and 4x deeper http://www.purdue.edu/impactearth/
If this was Downtown Houston 2.2 million people would be instantly dead. and the air blast would kill tens of thousands more. This is not even including the Anti matter bomb that would have occurred from the Destruction of the ship.
All this to simply quantify how intellectually and scientifically bankrupt the conception of the film was....Really it should be obvious and shouldn't need to be proven to this degree.
Changing topics, back to the film. I did enjoy the movie, but I found the lack of involvement of McCoy in the plot a bit of a missed opportunity, in fact, JJ stated that he wanted to "explore the relationship of Spock and Kirk more" in this installment, but I also found that lacking as well. The fact that the Enterprise did not fire a shot in the film strange as well. Perhaps too many steps taken with the writing, the flow of the film was a bit too jagged and stop-start for my taste, but a good ride and interesting in 3D.
(Explanation: Trek confirms that ships are made out an element. No such element exist on the periodic table therefore this element can't be made in stellar furnace therefore must have been made in an extremely rare reaction of high energy more than a supernova. Probably a Hypernova. Therefore this means it's density is much much higher than Iron. Therefore this means these numbers are extremely conservative.)
Actually Iron is not a bad thing to use in the calculator as an estimate. If the hulls are anything like they are in the main timeline then they are made of (mainly) tritanium and duranium composite. Tritanium is extremely heavy but very stable and highly resistant to nadion based weapons like phasers and disruptors. Duranium is light and has very good thermal protection properties for protection against very hot weapons like photon torpedoes and whatnot.
In TOS era they also used some cast rodinium in the armor plates (it is the hardest substance known to their science and probably used to stiffen the plates, a role that the structural integrity fields have taken over completely by TNG era or maybe even used like ceramic is used in tank armor today instead) but that seems to have fallen out of favor in later eras. Since the JJTrek stuff seems to use some of the later era design philosophies it is anyone's guess whether it is used there. Romulan plasma torpedoes would microcrack it to the point it could be crumbled by hand which is not good either.
According to DS9 Duranium isn't "light", it has an isotope of it is 235. That's 4x the atomic weight.
And Voyager's (memory Alpha) Hull was composed of Duranium sheets.
i've just been to see the movie, and i have to say that i loved it..
who'd have funk it.. i wasn't a sure how i felt about the first film, i came out of the cinema thinking hmmm.... but i really enjoyed this movie.. now i know it was full of plot holes and things that made no sense what so ever, but i was never taken out of the movie because of anything.. well i did, but then the voice in my head said shhhh!!! you're missing the movie
i can understand why people are going nuts over things... but honestly i'm just gald to see star trek on the big screen.. i went to see it with a couple of friends, who i wouldn't have been able to drag to see nemesis. (lets not go into that pile of crap) so i think for that jj has done his job and fair play to him..
i liked how it wasn't a bad guy trying to blow up the earth for a change.. i liked how they anticipated "some" fan reaction to the opening, when as soon as the doors open scotty is shouting.. "do you know how stupid it is hiding a starship at the bottom of the ocean".. it felt they were winking to the audience there and in a few other places.. i was a bit disappointed when he relieved who Harrison was but hey-ho.. i thought it was a nice idea to have kirk and the villain working together in the end, i thought that as going to go somewhere interesting... then oh no wrong!! stop thinking mark!!!
but all in all i enjoyed the movie, its a piece of entertainment at the end of the day. it was fun, it made me laugh, it didn't make me cry but it tried to. it was exciting and action packed, i like the new crew, i think they work well together. i thought the kirk and pike relationship was great.. i have to say that in my opinion this is better than any of the next generation movies....
the other aspect that i loved was that it felt like we got a glimpse of life in 23rd earth.
will i feel like picking it to pieces in a few weeks.. maybe.. i'm just happy that i enjoyed the movie. i seem to enjoy watching movies less and less as i'm getting older.. so it was nice to come out of the cinema in a good mood.
i cant wait to see what the enterprise rises out of in the next movie. and i agree 70% more bones please.....
I have to say I agree with that too.
Why aren't they writing anything for McCoy. He clearly delivers his line with such Great likeness to Deforest Kelly it's astonishing.
According to DS9 Duranium isn't "light", it has an isotope of it is 235. That's 4x the atomic weight.
And Voyager's (memory Alpha) Hull was composed of Duranium sheets.
The light stuff is from Star Wars.
They mention it is light in Voyager too, or at least light compared to tritanium. The ship is almost completely made of it to lighten it for performance in its fast destroyer role, so the sheet reference makes sense since there would be nothing to composite it with. A lot of shuttles are made of it too; presumably to save weight at the expense of a little phaser protection should the shields fail. Another factor is that they usually refer to the two hull materials as "alloy" so whatever it is alloyed with could reduce the weight somewhat too. I remember something about duranium being more expensive than tritanium as well, though that could have been a novel or game that mentioned it and so would be non-canon if so.
The composite part was from one of the tech manuals originally and supposedly was mentioned on one of the shows which would canonize it, though if so I do not remember them doing it directly. Indirect reference to it was made in AâA Matter of HonorAâ though, where Enterprise-D had a problem with tritanium eating microbes on the hull and it was mentioned that the Klingon ship they got it from was in greater danger because they have more tritanium in their hulls. If it was not composite then it would be all tritanium or duranium and so they would have been as bad off as the Klingons (though with better scientists).
Enterprise-D has some internal walls made of duranium, like the cargo bay walls which were damaged by Kreiger waves. Using the reason Voyager was made of the stuff it stands to reason that the E-D used it internally to make up for the weight of the tritanium in the hull.
DataAâs skull was even made of duranium; if duranium was some kind of super dense heavy metal it would be noticeable in the way he moves. In at least one episode people were even carrying his head around with little effort, something that could not be done that casually even if it was made of gold or lead.
Of course Star Trek was not always consistent in its technical details so conflicts exist on a number of points.
Hmm. I could've sworn the ship came in at what ended up being a relatively shallow angle. So, how does the math change when you look at the angle of impact closer to, oh say, 15ish degrees?
They mention it is light in Voyager too, or at least light compared to tritanium. The ship is almost completely made of it to lighten it for performance in its fast destroyer role, so the sheet reference makes sense since there would be nothing to composite it with. A lot of shuttles are made of it too; presumably to save weight at the expense of a little phaser protection should the shields fail. Another factor is that they usually refer to the two hull materials as "alloy" so whatever it is alloyed with could reduce the weight somewhat too. I remember something about duranium being more expensive than tritanium as well, though that could have been a novel or game that mentioned it and so would be non-canon if so.
The composite part was from one of the tech manuals originally and supposedly was mentioned on one of the shows which would canonize it, though if so I do not remember them doing it directly. Indirect reference to it was made in “A Matter of Honor” though, where Enterprise-D had a problem with tritanium eating microbes on the hull and it was mentioned that the Klingon ship they got it from was in greater danger because they have more tritanium in their hulls. If it was not composite then it would be all tritanium or duranium and so they would have been as bad off as the Klingons (though with better scientists).
Enterprise-D has some internal walls made of duranium, like the cargo bay walls which were damaged by Kreiger waves. Using the reason Voyager was made of the stuff it stands to reason that the E-D used it internally to make up for the weight of the tritanium in the hull.
Data’s skull was even made of duranium; if duranium was some kind of super dense heavy metal it would be noticeable in the way he moves. In at least one episode people were even carrying his head around with little effort, something that could not be done that casually even if it was made of gold or lead.
Of course Star Trek was not always consistent in its technical details so conflicts exist on a number of points.
There can't be a metal lighter than IRON (FE) that doesn't already exist.
The Periodic Table list the elements in ascending order of protons. That number at the top left of it's box is the number of protons and protons uniquely identify an element. There can't be numbers in-between Elements 21,22,23,24,25, and 26 (IRON) because half protons aren't protons but in fact 3 quarks of different (flavors) and don't make elements because quarks tend to combine naturally.
So when they say Duranium 235....They are actually telling us this particular substance is an Isotope. We still don't know the exact place the stable element exist because 235 counts the complete number of Protons and Neutrons. So merely dividing it in half comes to 117 (but that would be the newly discovered element with no name) not an Isotope. It would have to be Element 116 (at the least) with an extra Neutron)
This by the way puts Duranium in the poor metals category and the heaviest metals discovered. Their melting points are lower than normal metals.
**Non commonly Known**
While we don't know everything about new elements or (undiscovered elements) the Periodic table has a predictability of composition. While not infallible it shows many of the elements after Plutonium are so heavy that they have a tendency to reduce themselves (half lives) or unstable. Many of them are in the reactive area of the table too. (which makes sense because if they aren't artificial then they would break down quickly)
Hmm. I could've sworn the ship came in at what ended up being a relatively shallow angle. So, how does the math change when you look at the angle of impact closer to, oh say, 15ish degrees?
15 Degree Impact Angle
Crater
An Asteroid coming in at this angle breaks up
Crater shape is normal in spite of atmospheric crushing; fragments are not significantly dispersed.
Transient Crater Diameter: 4.01 km ( = 2.49 miles )
Transient Crater Depth: 1.42 km ( = 0.88 miles )
Final Crater Diameter: 4.83 km ( = 3 miles )
Final Crater Depth: 475 meters ( = 1560 feet )
The crater formed is a complex crater.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 0.0421 km^3 ( = 0.0101 miles^3 )
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater, where its average thickness is 3.34 meters ( = 11 feet ).
Damage Description:
Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.
Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.
Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.
Highway truss bridges will collapse.
Highway girder bridges will collapse.
Glass windows will shatter.
Cars and trucks will be largely displaced and grossly distorted and will require rebuilding before use.
Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped of branches and leaves.
Hmm. I could've sworn the ship came in at what ended up being a relatively shallow angle. So, how does the math change when you look at the angle of impact closer to, oh say, 15ish degrees?
Yeah the ship wasnt coming down at a 90 degree angle, if anything it look like it was gliding down at a rather shallow angle as you said. Which makes me dismiss the whole "extinction level" crash, as the ship basically scrapped or rather did an angled dig along the entire surface. We know that, because it was visibly skimming along the water, which would have most def slowed it down some.
If anything, there should have been some floods and maybe more secondary explosion from the city elements itself.
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LOL, the plot variable and what I read in "Physics" (something along the lines of utilizing negative mass/energy to force open a wormhole for travel or blah blah) is why Im inclined to let the whole "Enterprise escaping the black hole" thing go.
Yeah, I didn't know until recently myself, and the more you look the weirder they actually start to get. Such as the whole spinning rim black hole, you could use for FTL travel, but if you go through youll end up in a different universe every time you do theoretically. Well thats of course if you do "force" its "throat" to stay open thereby getting your wormhole.
Let me place my cards and bias on the table, anything done in Voyager I have to take with a grain of salt because I just didn't like it (disbarring Seven and Kim). I rather watch Enterprise. That said...
Though she's done that, arent there cases when they disregarded that precaution? Or other times when starships (like someone mentioned the BOP in Voyage Home) had active warp fields in a planet's atmosphere? Im not gonna deny that a warp bubble on a planet will not seriously frick up the magnetic field of a planet and wreck havoc. I guess now, Im just curious if they can do so on very micro levels to make it negligible.
Three words:
Not a fan.
What a waste of two otherwise excellent villains. And what is it with Cumberbatch ... does he have to show ALL his teeth every time he enunciates or attempts to show rage?
Voyager has always vented the nacelles before landing. This was perhaps skipped during a crash landing in Timeless.
The BOP warping sequence I considering an error of background or an error in effects because seconds later we see the same effect in space above the planet and certainly in the time expened the Bounty would be well past the moon even at light speed.
So I think we were supposed to see a burst of speed at impulse and then warp once in space instead of two warp sequences.
I've got this book on the subject. I've read it twice.
The Reissner-Nordstrom Singularity
Blackholes don't carry any attribute other than mass to the singularity. All other information is lost according to Schwarzchild.. Reissner discovered if matter carried a net electrical charge before reaching infinite density (the point singularity) the quality would be retained in a magnetic field beyond the Event Horizon.
(Considered Impossible)
Ker Blackholes
Formed from spinning stars (which most stars do) these blackholes would preserve that spinning in angular momentum and pick up speed during it's collapse into a blackhole. (like a skater pulling her arms inward). The Singularity is shaped like a RING. An object passing through the RING SINGULARITY would emerge on the other side of the universe where gravity is a repulsive, rather than an attractive, force.
Kerr Blackholes have an ergosphere:. This is a region just outside the event horizon where space-time, although not curved in upon itself, is dragged around the hole, much ilke water in the vicinity of a drain. Escape from the Erogosphere is still possible but only for objects moving at near light speed.
---Practical Use---
Roger Penrose discovered an advanced civilization could extract energy from the ergosphere and the blackhole. If a chunk of mater was injected into the ergosphere at a glancing angle so that it broke into two pieces inside, and if one of the pieces was to continue into the blackhole while the other escaped, the latter piece would come out with more energy than the original matter possessed. The extra power would be stolen from the rotational energy of the black hole. The continued process would cause the black hole to stop spinning.
Hawking's Exploding Black Hole
By applying quantum physics to an area around the black hole he discovered they could radiate energy to the point of explosion. This is done with virtual particles that appear everywhere in space and self anhialate (because they're antimatter equals to each other) partiles that spring up near the event horizon will lose one particle to the singularity leaving the other to escape the black hole and self annihilation. The energy from this creation comes from the blackhole itself. Thus as this happens the Blackhole is losing Mass and Energy.
Stellar Black Holes could not radiate enough to expire before much longer than the age of the universe had passed.
Hawking theorized Primordial Blackholes created during the BIG BANG would have radiate enough energy by now to be getting hotter and smaller to accelerate their rate of emission enough to explode. No such explosion have been detected.
White Holes
Similar to Hawkling's Exploding Black Holes but have nothing to do with quantum physics, begining as a singularity, eternally gush matter and energy. This energy and matter in some circles is thought to be in orbit of a blackholes within the event horizon where all the energy and matter not directly passing into the black hole falls into orbit or to be sourced from thee bottomless pit created by the singularity itself which has no gravity.
(for me this implies that a blackhole looses it's mass just as quickly and this doesn't happen rather matter falling into the blackhole adds to it's total mass.)
Wormholes: Einstien-Rosen Bridge
While some thought these to be a sort of exit from that bottomless pit, the mathematical Wormhole would be smaller than a subatomic particle and would pinch shut the moment anything passed through the throat. This didn't describe the gushing fountain that would source a blackhole.
---
So the the thought that White Holes and Wormholes stem from Blackholes must inevitably ask, with the prelevance of Blackholes at the heart of nearly every Galaxy and stellar blackholes roaming those Galaxies then why haven't we detected White Holes or worm holes.
I believe the prevailing thought is not merely that it's exit is the other side of the universe (for surely the other side of the universe is sure to have stars and black holes) but that they may exit to a completely different universe or are part of the quantum foam (theorized as the origin of the Big Bang) and thus our universe spawns other universes as we were spawned from some other universe.
---
My Thoughts
I curtail all this again with the fact that Black holes just get bigger and bigger. The matter and energy aren't going any where else. Once matter goes into a singularity it is gone. The gravitational field reaps the benefit of that matter's existence but the matter itself is gone forever. Literally and directly converted into energy. The singularity isn't some black star with a hot surface sitting inside an event horizon. No matter how close you get to it you'll never reach it. It's infinitely small and infinitely dense defying all explanation beyond that. Infact it's impossible for matter to exist on that "level or levels". It's beyond the quantum level. And if matter can't exist on that level, neither can time. This is the realm of the Higgs field.
Matter gives us a clue as too what happens at such impossible levels when we remove nearly all the heat from gases and get within reach, but never reaching, absolute zero. At this level the particles of matter begin to take on the traits of the quantum level, being particles yet behaving like waves as though linked together. This may imply that blackholes are linked together and maybe the reason why the universe's temperature is perfectly ambient even over the entire 14 Billion light years we can see rather than a receding explosion
It's something to think about....
it's okay. I liked Voyager but it had some poor moments.
And what happened to, "of all the souls I've encountered, his was the most huuuu, uu, uu, uman".
But then again, it would have to be Kirk saying it, and well...
The reason Kirk, Spock and Khan dont behave like they did in WOK, is because they haven't have those 25 years of shared history.
STID is set a few years before the enterprise even found the botany bay in the original series.
But Kirk and Spock behaved alot like Naruto and Sasuke to me.
One really like the other for God know why.
As I have stated before I did not care for the new Star Trek movie, I found there to be many poorly written scenes, and really the whole thing felt rushed and unpolished. After some thinking I feel that the following small changes would make a big improvement on the film, warning spoilers ahead:
2) Get your technobabble right, Cold Fusion is a form nuclear power generation that can be done at room temperature, not a something that freezes lava, and that is just one example.
3) Instead of Starfleet demoting Kirk, simply have Admiral Pike transfer his flag to the Enterprise. Remember Kirk is the hero who saved Earth, a demotion, especially in the wake of a terrorist bombing would be a huge moral blow to all. Have Pike explain that he will be there to watchdog over Kirk and keep his decisions on the right track. Also when they meet up in the bar, have Pike make reference to Kirk’s service before joining Starfleet, maybe on a merchant ship as second or first officer, closing that gaping plot hole from the first film.
4) When Harrison attacks the HQ have help arrive sooner, this is Starfleet HQ after all, and when he teleports out make the device burn out giving only a rough vector that he teleported out on. This can then be used to state that he used Scotty’s tech to teleport onto a passing freighter outside of the system, like maybe a Tellerite, Orion or other race. Harrison then hijacks the ship and takes it to the Klingon Home World. State that it will take the ships x number of days to reach Kronos, say 4 days, but that the Enterprise can catch them if they leave now.
5) When loading the torpedoes onto the Enterprise let Scotty still protest, and make it clear that Kirk is upset because they have already lost a day waiting for the torpedoes to arrive and all supplies to be loaded. Introduce Carol Marcus (via Alias) at this point as being the expert in charge of the weapons, still have Scotty “quit.”
6) Give chase to Harrison, but he reaches Kronos ahead of the Enterprise, Enterprise intercepts the freighter and borrows one of their shuttles to capture Harrison, giving them a cover story. Insert a throwaway line about how Kirk has time to cool his head and not fire the super torpedoes, instead opting to capture Harrison because he is realizing that something is rotten inside Starfleet.
7) All Kronos scenes can remain the same but make reference to the area they find him in being irradiated, either from an accident or war, so they must limit their time there, even the discovery of what is in the torpedoes as the Enterprise is heading back to Earth.
8) Don’t have Scotty inject the tribble, that is just bad science, instead just have him make reference to Kahn’s healing ability, stating that is why he was able to stay so long in the irradiated zone of Kronos where they found him.
9) After Harrison/Kahn’s interrogation, where he reveals the location of the Vengeance shipyard, have Kirk contact Scotty, quitting was all a ruse as Kirk was suspecting something amiss before they left, and had Scotty stay behind to investigate. Scotty then uses the experimental teleporter, which he repaired to teleport into the space dock of the Vengeance undetected, and as a little joke a small beagle appears right after him, he picks it up to see that the tag reads “Porthos III” the dog that he teleported prior to the first film, which got him exiled.
10) Have the Vengeance intercept the Enterpise on their way to Earth, and give chase, culminating with the battle over Earth. Even have ADM Marcus taunt Kirk that he sent the fleet away to reinforce the border and prepare to strike Klingon targets, ADM Marcus will be the real big bad in this.
11) Still have Scotty disable the Vengeance allowing Kirk and Kahn to board, even have Kahn still kill Marcus and teleport Kirk, Scotty, Carol and Porthos back to the Enterprise. Even have him teleport the torpedoes back aboard, but once they explode have Kirk, whose ship is crashing towards Earth appeal, to his humanity, like he did for Nero, and promise Kahn to help his people if he helps Kirk save his ship.
12) Kahn then makes the noble sacrifice to repair the warp core of the Enterprise before it can crash. Have Scotty make reference to how long he was gone, a week instead of a day. As the Enterprise is lifting away safely have them try to stop the Vengeance from crashing, but they don’t have the power and are too damaged, so all they can do is slow the impact, limiting the damage, otherwise that crash would have been an extinction level event.
13) Have Kirk make good on his promise shipping Kahn and company off to an out of the way world, Seti-Alpha V, and either show them sometime in the future with Kahn still alive, having healed himself, or as they are being sent off show him smiling in his cryopod.
What these changes do is make the story more a retelling of Space Seed than Wrath of Kahn, with some TWOK reference still thrown in for good measure. It also allows for a real TWOK type sequel down the road, and for the timeline to do one of two things, given that JJ Abrams is leaving Trek, and allows whoever picks it up after him to make the choice.
1) It puts Trek back on the track towards the original timeline with minimal changes, SF realizes that things are amiss and really looks at itself and how to fix that.
2) It allows the series to continue to diverge, but in a more controlled manner, ie. Scotty’s transwarp teleport is for the most part a one shot deal, they can’t use Kahn’s blood to cure death (the biggest Pandora’s box they opened in this one), etc…
There was no way this movie could have made everybody happy, but things could have been done to make it a really great movie, it just kept slipping off the mark.
I like how you jogged back the whole starship crashing from Earth to moon for surely if a mere Rod of God traveling at 25000 MPH would cause a nuclear like explosion the hole and and the loss of the sun from a 600 meter Brick surely would have destroyed all life on the planet.
Aside I thought that was far more competent.
The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was six miles wide, and still didn't kill all life on earth, and that was solid rock, not a honeycomb of metal containing a lot of air, that had only travelled a fraction of the distance the asteroid did, and was travelling much slower.
A tungsten rod as tall as a telephone pole would create nuclear potential of a Hiroshima's bomb. That's only 9 tons traveling at 15 kps
The idea is to launch it from earth and pick up speed by sling shot around the moon by which it exceeds the velocity to break Earth Orbit but is instead directed into an Earth Target. 1 mile blast area.
Now imagine what 4.5 million Metric tons can do falling from the moons orbital velocity of 2, 236.
The Vengeance covered the distance in record time. Say around 15 minutes. That's a velocity of 94,800 mph. That's more than 3 times the speed and millions times the mass.
Combined with the anti matter on board the ship????
Yeah, I think Extinction Level Event is apt.
Yeah, I think no life on Earth is apt too.
Plus where did you pull that weight figure from?
Additionally you care comparing an object designed specifically to enter the atmosphere without resistance in a vertical attack going through the least amount of air, to a starship with a large surface area, coming down at a very shallow angle, where every second it travels through the air the wind resistance would be reducing its descent to earth's terminal velocity.
As for the antimatter?
Again from the film, no evidence the ship actually exploded.
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Plus we have also seen the defiant and Voyager crash into planets without the anti matter going up.
Hell, nuclear containers in the 20th centuary were built to withstand train and plane crashes, I would link youtube videos of this, but cant get on that site at work.
You should go look for them, the slow mo of a phantom jet ploughing into a nuclear reactor's outer wall is fascinating.
Yea, which is funny in a way, since it seems like even moderate battles seem to just ruin containment integrity and risk a warp core breach...
Spent so much time and money on fortifying the structure that houses nuclear reactors, but did nothing about making sure they have lower chances of meltdowns, etc.
Yea, I've seen that video.
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I just gave you the evidence. It's up to you to accept it or reject it.
The moon is 237,000 miles away. Apollo 11 took 3 days to travel to the moon at "Earth Breakaway speed."
To merely fall out of orbit would have taken months even as much as two years. I don't care about whether JJ Abrams meant to show such this result or effect from what he filmed. This is merely the REAL results of his film choices.
Doesn't matter.
At the size a Nimitz Carrier this would have been significant 100,000 Tons
At the Size Voyager this would have been significant 700,000 Tons
At the size of Galaxy this would have been significant 4,500,000 Tons (whoops there it is)
Good point...wait!
Lets run it through the Impact calculator!
Parameters:
200 Meters Diameter
Velocity 42 Kps
Angle 90 degrees
Density: (Iron like)
Target Sedimentary Rock
Distance 1,000 km
(Explanation: Trek confirms that ships are made out an element. No such element exist on the periodic table therefore this element can't be made in stellar furnace therefore must have been made in an extremely rare reaction of high energy more than a supernova. Probably a Hypernova. Therefore this means it's density is much much higher than Iron. Therefore this means these numbers are extremely conservative.)
7,063 Megaton Blast
Passage through the Atmosphere (Brief 2 or 3 seconds)
Crater Depth 573 Meters
Crater Diameter 9 km (5.59 Miles across)
This is 6x times the diameter of Meteor Crater in Arizona and 4x deeper
http://www.purdue.edu/impactearth/
If this was Downtown Houston 2.2 million people would be instantly dead. and the air blast would kill tens of thousands more. This is not even including the Anti matter bomb that would have occurred from the Destruction of the ship.
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
Nuke Calculator confirms complete destruction of Houston Texas (air burst detonation extremely-favorable)
All this to simply quantify how intellectually and scientifically bankrupt the conception of the film was....Really it should be obvious and shouldn't need to be proven to this degree.
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Actually Iron is not a bad thing to use in the calculator as an estimate. If the hulls are anything like they are in the main timeline then they are made of (mainly) tritanium and duranium composite. Tritanium is extremely heavy but very stable and highly resistant to nadion based weapons like phasers and disruptors. Duranium is light and has very good thermal protection properties for protection against very hot weapons like photon torpedoes and whatnot.
In TOS era they also used some cast rodinium in the armor plates (it is the hardest substance known to their science and probably used to stiffen the plates, a role that the structural integrity fields have taken over completely by TNG era or maybe even used like ceramic is used in tank armor today instead) but that seems to have fallen out of favor in later eras. Since the JJTrek stuff seems to use some of the later era design philosophies it is anyone's guess whether it is used there. Romulan plasma torpedoes would microcrack it to the point it could be crumbled by hand which is not good either.
And Voyager's (memory Alpha) Hull was composed of Duranium sheets.
The light stuff is from Star Wars.
who'd have funk it.. i wasn't a sure how i felt about the first film, i came out of the cinema thinking hmmm.... but i really enjoyed this movie.. now i know it was full of plot holes and things that made no sense what so ever, but i was never taken out of the movie because of anything.. well i did, but then the voice in my head said shhhh!!! you're missing the movie
i can understand why people are going nuts over things... but honestly i'm just gald to see star trek on the big screen.. i went to see it with a couple of friends, who i wouldn't have been able to drag to see nemesis. (lets not go into that pile of crap) so i think for that jj has done his job and fair play to him..
i liked how it wasn't a bad guy trying to blow up the earth for a change.. i liked how they anticipated "some" fan reaction to the opening, when as soon as the doors open scotty is shouting.. "do you know how stupid it is hiding a starship at the bottom of the ocean".. it felt they were winking to the audience there and in a few other places.. i was a bit disappointed when he relieved who Harrison was but hey-ho.. i thought it was a nice idea to have kirk and the villain working together in the end, i thought that as going to go somewhere interesting... then oh no wrong!! stop thinking mark!!!
but all in all i enjoyed the movie, its a piece of entertainment at the end of the day. it was fun, it made me laugh, it didn't make me cry but it tried to. it was exciting and action packed, i like the new crew, i think they work well together. i thought the kirk and pike relationship was great.. i have to say that in my opinion this is better than any of the next generation movies....
the other aspect that i loved was that it felt like we got a glimpse of life in 23rd earth.
will i feel like picking it to pieces in a few weeks.. maybe.. i'm just happy that i enjoyed the movie. i seem to enjoy watching movies less and less as i'm getting older.. so it was nice to come out of the cinema in a good mood.
i cant wait to see what the enterprise rises out of in the next movie. and i agree 70% more bones please.....
Why aren't they writing anything for McCoy. He clearly delivers his line with such Great likeness to Deforest Kelly it's astonishing.
They mention it is light in Voyager too, or at least light compared to tritanium. The ship is almost completely made of it to lighten it for performance in its fast destroyer role, so the sheet reference makes sense since there would be nothing to composite it with. A lot of shuttles are made of it too; presumably to save weight at the expense of a little phaser protection should the shields fail. Another factor is that they usually refer to the two hull materials as "alloy" so whatever it is alloyed with could reduce the weight somewhat too. I remember something about duranium being more expensive than tritanium as well, though that could have been a novel or game that mentioned it and so would be non-canon if so.
The composite part was from one of the tech manuals originally and supposedly was mentioned on one of the shows which would canonize it, though if so I do not remember them doing it directly. Indirect reference to it was made in AâA Matter of HonorAâ though, where Enterprise-D had a problem with tritanium eating microbes on the hull and it was mentioned that the Klingon ship they got it from was in greater danger because they have more tritanium in their hulls. If it was not composite then it would be all tritanium or duranium and so they would have been as bad off as the Klingons (though with better scientists).
Enterprise-D has some internal walls made of duranium, like the cargo bay walls which were damaged by Kreiger waves. Using the reason Voyager was made of the stuff it stands to reason that the E-D used it internally to make up for the weight of the tritanium in the hull.
DataAâs skull was even made of duranium; if duranium was some kind of super dense heavy metal it would be noticeable in the way he moves. In at least one episode people were even carrying his head around with little effort, something that could not be done that casually even if it was made of gold or lead.
Of course Star Trek was not always consistent in its technical details so conflicts exist on a number of points.
Hmm. I could've sworn the ship came in at what ended up being a relatively shallow angle. So, how does the math change when you look at the angle of impact closer to, oh say, 15ish degrees?
There can't be a metal lighter than IRON (FE) that doesn't already exist.
The Periodic Table list the elements in ascending order of protons. That number at the top left of it's box is the number of protons and protons uniquely identify an element. There can't be numbers in-between Elements 21,22,23,24,25, and 26 (IRON) because half protons aren't protons but in fact 3 quarks of different (flavors) and don't make elements because quarks tend to combine naturally.
So when they say Duranium 235....They are actually telling us this particular substance is an Isotope. We still don't know the exact place the stable element exist because 235 counts the complete number of Protons and Neutrons. So merely dividing it in half comes to 117 (but that would be the newly discovered element with no name) not an Isotope. It would have to be Element 116 (at the least) with an extra Neutron)
This by the way puts Duranium in the poor metals category and the heaviest metals discovered. Their melting points are lower than normal metals.
**Non commonly Known**
While we don't know everything about new elements or (undiscovered elements) the Periodic table has a predictability of composition. While not infallible it shows many of the elements after Plutonium are so heavy that they have a tendency to reduce themselves (half lives) or unstable. Many of them are in the reactive area of the table too. (which makes sense because if they aren't artificial then they would break down quickly)
15 Degree Impact Angle
Crater
An Asteroid coming in at this angle breaks up
Crater shape is normal in spite of atmospheric crushing; fragments are not significantly dispersed.
Transient Crater Diameter: 4.01 km ( = 2.49 miles )
Transient Crater Depth: 1.42 km ( = 0.88 miles )
Final Crater Diameter: 4.83 km ( = 3 miles )
Final Crater Depth: 475 meters ( = 1560 feet )
The crater formed is a complex crater.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 0.0421 km^3 ( = 0.0101 miles^3 )
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater, where its average thickness is 3.34 meters ( = 11 feet ).
Damage Description:
Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.
Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.
Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.
Highway truss bridges will collapse.
Highway girder bridges will collapse.
Glass windows will shatter.
Cars and trucks will be largely displaced and grossly distorted and will require rebuilding before use.
Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped of branches and leaves.
Yeah the ship wasnt coming down at a 90 degree angle, if anything it look like it was gliding down at a rather shallow angle as you said. Which makes me dismiss the whole "extinction level" crash, as the ship basically scrapped or rather did an angled dig along the entire surface. We know that, because it was visibly skimming along the water, which would have most def slowed it down some.
If anything, there should have been some floods and maybe more secondary explosion from the city elements itself.