Fun fact: according to the original Phase II bible from the '70s, that would have been a phaser, not a photon torpedo launcher.
Maybe someone will someday reproduce that interpretation -- a Connie with twin "phaser cannons" ala the USS Reliant / Miranda-class where the torp launchers would normally be.
I think it was going to be a single phaser, though I'm not sure. It's hard to be certain from Matt Jefferies' design drawings. It definitely would have changed Trek, though. Of course, the simple act of putting the torpedoes there changed Trek.
Yeah, I mean, we think Ryan Church's design's controversial within the fandom these days, I imagine the fandom in '79 looking at the feedback on that and going 'wow, they really don't care much'. And what have we now? The connie refit's considered one of, if not the most beautiful design to come out of Trek.
The only difference between an abomination and a classic is fifteen years.
Nice work as always Tobias. I finally got onto the site and am downloading "The Child" now. I'm in Kansas myself, so maybe there was a bad server connection between us.. Oh well, happy now! I hope they continue to work on and improve this project for years to come!
Regarding the design - itAâs really hard to beat the movie refit design-wise. This is somewhat of an in-between - with elements from the Phase II design and other sources. It fits within what we want to accomplish with the next episodes of Phase II.
Ooh, the clipped pylons, nice. Part of me wonders how the circular nacelles would look on pylons like that as opposed to the linear ones. I don't know if it's intentional- if it's not but it hasn't been noticed yet (unlikely, I know, this is Mr. Richter we're talking about...) I really like that the pylons recess a little bit into the hull itself, it's subtle but different, and something i haven't seen done before.
The scrawny nacelle pylons were my least favorite part of the otherwise great TOS design, and those clipped pylons are a strong redesign. I totally agree that the pylons being recessed is a great and subtle touch. Keep up the great work!
It'll be really interesting to see the nacelles though, I'm looking forward to that. Mostly because I suspect we'll see something rather different to the established close-to-but-not-quite-full-refit phase 2 nacelles we're used to. After all, the model's already set up as a sort of hybrid design- the full phase 2 model originally had a recessed TMP-style deflector as opposed to the TOS style exposed dish this one has.
And if the recessed pylons was a goof (I can't see how it could be knowing most CG programs and Tobias' tendency to be very fastidious with the shots he posts) and it's decided to be kept due to positive reaction, I'm so taking credit for noticing it.
The other query I have is regarding the shipboard insignia- TOS style with the squared-off angled typeface and the block pennants, or TMP-style with the Microgramma, the STARSHIP U.S.S. ENTERPRISE - UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS pennants and maybe even the registry number on the sides of the secondary hull as turned up in some early artwork for the series? (wait. If this is an experimental semi-refit, dare I say, even NX-1701?)
Thanks for the nice words. The recessed pylons were intentionally, as it will offer a nice opportunity for a shot weAâre planning. The insignia will stay TOS style.
The major change are the warp nacelles - so here they are. They are pretty close to the Phase II design, with a few details added here and there, linking them a bit closer to the refit nacelles.
AWESOME! Loving those nacelles. Looking great, Tobias.
I am curious to see how you approach the bussard area. Will they be phase 2 bluish or the more traditional red/gold? Forgive my ignorance but I take it that with these linear nacelles the bussard collector "bits" are stacked two high? If so it will be neat to see the classic engergy swirl interact across the face of the bussard. (Apologies for the simplistic terms but I am not really familiar with such things)
Loving what you've done here, a very good look at creating a hybrid or missing link between the TOS and refit Enterprises, great job. Excellent design on those new nacelles and pylons, not totally sold on the new torpedo launchers, but think the overall design is looking great.
Tobias' version is close, though he admitted that they're not quite the same design. (for one thing, the long rounded side vents are inset on Jefferies' plans, not bulging out)
Actually, that's one thing the pylons could do with, some sort of detailing where the 'clip' goes, it tends to bring up a bit of an optical illusion that the pylons themselves are bent at an angle rather than straight and just clipped, at certain angles it looks a little bit wierd. Will probably be helped once the panelling and textures go on, but some sort of detailing at that level to keep the optical illusion from cropping up would help.
I love the little details you added all over the nacelle, though it's pretty odd that the nacelle is the only part of the ship with RCS thrusters.
Tobias, I understand that the original idea was to introduce this refit after the Enterprise was heavily damage on "Blood and Fire" (in fact I remember seeing some renders of the refit), but then all the fans said that it wouldn't make sense to refit the ship only to refit it again 2 year later, so they didn't go on with the idea. Do you know what changed their mind?
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I suspect the easy way to explain it is as something similar to the Essex-class carrier's two major refit projects they underwent during their careers; the bow redesign and the angled flight deck additions. In some cases, there was very little time between the two refits being done to a ship. In addition, it seems that this refit is comparatively much less intrusive than the '73 refit, keepign the same hull shapes and only really adding the torpedo launcher, airlock and nacelle structures. Could well be that it's simply being used as a test model for the linear coil nacelles, and once fully tested, bingo, replate them and let's get the ship fully redone.
I mean, you can completely redesign an aircraft carrier's entire shape in a few months in the 1960s, a nacelle redesign and a pair of minor details could end up taking less than two weeks by 2269. Especially if the nacelle structure's modular (hence the recessed pylons, presumably)
Also, let's not go trying to find reasons not to do awesome stuff.
Actually, that's one thing the pylons could do with, some sort of detailing where the 'clip' goes, it tends to bring up a bit of an optical illusion that the pylons themselves are bent at an angle rather than straight and just clipped, at certain angles it looks a little bit wierd. Will probably be helped once the panelling and textures go on, but some sort of detailing at that level to keep the optical illusion from cropping up would help.
I'm talking about the nacelles, not the pylons. Tobias' pylons are about the same as the Jefferies drawings. However, the long "grills" on the nacelles were going to be inset on the TV show ship that was under construction. The curve is marked on the Jefferies design drawings.
There are better shots that that out there, but that's the best one I could find on Google. Those long grills are inset, not bulging out. However, the way Tobias did his is how they were done on the 1st model that was built and then later scrapped for Phase II, (the web series) so that's probably how the production team wants them to be.
Tobias, I understand that the original idea was to introduce this refit after the Enterprise was heavily damage on "Blood and Fire" (in fact I remember seeing some renders of the refit), but then all the fans said that it wouldn't make sense to refit the ship only to refit it again 2 year later, so they didn't go on with the idea. Do you know what changed their mind?
They changed their mind because of two things: the 2009 movie is the first reason. Since the 2009 movie rebooted Trek, it was obvious there was no way classic Trek was ever going to get made again officially, so they kept the '60s design in honor of Star Trek and what they were trying to achieve. The second reason is, a lot of viewers whined about the design on the forums, so they decided not to switch to it at that time. However, there has been more recent interest in the design on the forums, which is probably why they're now having Tobias refine the design and make a new model. (plus, the first model was really low poly)
Thanks for your observations - I canAât take credit for the design of the ship. I think Darren Dochterman did the Phase II Refit a couple of years ago, with a new saucer and changed secondary hull. They backed out of that for various reasons - I donAât know them in detail, but one was that the fans wanted to see the old lady a little longer.
Now there have been some events that triggered another rethink. I canAât give too much away, but this ship will maybe be seen only for a limited time.
The model they had of the Refit was just not high poly enough, especially the nacelles and the pylons. So I decided to rebuild it. The funny part is that my model now has 30% less polygons then the old one We will also introduce some form of aztec pattern on the saucer. Apart from that, the saucer is 100% TOS.
Doom - I think I know what you mean, this illusion will probably eliminated by the textures.
Please post orthos when you think it is time. Cool ship. Wish they had used this for the JJ Abram's movies. I know you hear it a lot, but REALLY nice work, on all you do. BTW, on another thread I asked about orthos on the Reliant and the Excelcior.
I honestly never thought I would end up liking the Phase 2ish ship as much as I am. Was always something about those nacelles or something.....but you have made them look really good. They are rather fetching now..:)
Now THAT is a refit. I don't think most people get that Jeffries' original intention was to make believable structural changes to the old gal. New engines, some detailing, and widening the saucer while keeping the original saucer dimensions intact.
Hmm, looking at it, I think the decision to go with the TOS paintjob as opposed to the TMP one will help the ship a lot. It looks much more '2260s' now with the older pennants and such. Combined with the bronze metal deflector as opposed to the blue glowy (unless the deflector gets glowy bits, which would still be cool), it should help ground the look of it nicely.
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Maybe someone will someday reproduce that interpretation -- a Connie with twin "phaser cannons" ala the USS Reliant / Miranda-class where the torp launchers would normally be.
The only difference between an abomination and a classic is fifteen years.
Regarding the design - itAâs really hard to beat the movie refit design-wise. This is somewhat of an in-between - with elements from the Phase II design and other sources. It fits within what we want to accomplish with the next episodes of Phase II.
Agreed. Really cool.
Damn....Tobias, you are such a tease.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqRhLEHgwgTKxsalM5YznYQ
Formerly furswift
And if the recessed pylons was a goof (I can't see how it could be knowing most CG programs and Tobias' tendency to be very fastidious with the shots he posts) and it's decided to be kept due to positive reaction, I'm so taking credit for noticing it.
The other query I have is regarding the shipboard insignia- TOS style with the squared-off angled typeface and the block pennants, or TMP-style with the Microgramma, the STARSHIP U.S.S. ENTERPRISE - UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS pennants and maybe even the registry number on the sides of the secondary hull as turned up in some early artwork for the series? (wait. If this is an experimental semi-refit, dare I say, even NX-1701?)
The major change are the warp nacelles - so here they are. They are pretty close to the Phase II design, with a few details added here and there, linking them a bit closer to the refit nacelles.
Next stop as always: UV mapping...
I am curious to see how you approach the bussard area. Will they be phase 2 bluish or the more traditional red/gold? Forgive my ignorance but I take it that with these linear nacelles the bussard collector "bits" are stacked two high? If so it will be neat to see the classic engergy swirl interact across the face of the bussard. (Apologies for the simplistic terms but I am not really familiar with such things)
:cool:
Tobias' version is close, though he admitted that they're not quite the same design. (for one thing, the long rounded side vents are inset on Jefferies' plans, not bulging out)
Tobias, I understand that the original idea was to introduce this refit after the Enterprise was heavily damage on "Blood and Fire" (in fact I remember seeing some renders of the refit), but then all the fans said that it wouldn't make sense to refit the ship only to refit it again 2 year later, so they didn't go on with the idea. Do you know what changed their mind?
I mean, you can completely redesign an aircraft carrier's entire shape in a few months in the 1960s, a nacelle redesign and a pair of minor details could end up taking less than two weeks by 2269. Especially if the nacelle structure's modular (hence the recessed pylons, presumably)
Also, let's not go trying to find reasons not to do awesome stuff.
I'm talking about the nacelles, not the pylons. Tobias' pylons are about the same as the Jefferies drawings. However, the long "grills" on the nacelles were going to be inset on the TV show ship that was under construction. The curve is marked on the Jefferies design drawings.
2010-09-04_Phase2_Ent_grills.jpg
There are better shots that that out there, but that's the best one I could find on Google. Those long grills are inset, not bulging out. However, the way Tobias did his is how they were done on the 1st model that was built and then later scrapped for Phase II, (the web series) so that's probably how the production team wants them to be.
They changed their mind because of two things: the 2009 movie is the first reason. Since the 2009 movie rebooted Trek, it was obvious there was no way classic Trek was ever going to get made again officially, so they kept the '60s design in honor of Star Trek and what they were trying to achieve. The second reason is, a lot of viewers whined about the design on the forums, so they decided not to switch to it at that time. However, there has been more recent interest in the design on the forums, which is probably why they're now having Tobias refine the design and make a new model. (plus, the first model was really low poly)
Now there have been some events that triggered another rethink. I canAât give too much away, but this ship will maybe be seen only for a limited time.
The model they had of the Refit was just not high poly enough, especially the nacelles and the pylons. So I decided to rebuild it. The funny part is that my model now has 30% less polygons then the old one
Doom - I think I know what you mean, this illusion will probably eliminated by the textures.
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Good to see you - and thank you for the nice words!
Brandenberg - sorry, forgot about those. IAâll post orthos when IAâll find the time - keep reminding me
UV mapping is done, as are the decals. Now on to textures....
Excellent work, Tobias. As always.
Various Work: U.S.S. Constellation - Matt Jefferies Concept Shuttle
On the model. JJ are you seeing this?