From the angle of your image, it looks like the secondary hull tapers too much going back to the hangar doors. There doesn't seem to be enough of the hull back there for the underside fantail. Also, the ring for the deflector dish looks too big and the segmented rings around it are too close together. This is a very tricky part of the ship. The secondary hull has subtle bulges and curves that are really hard to nail down. You're close, but you'll need to find some good reference photos and diagrams to get it right.
i dont know, from this angle it looks much more acute than it probably is, the cutout on the lower side of the hull will make that taper apear much sharper than it really is.
Thank you anystar. I do have a bevel at the point that you are talking about. I guess it isn't strong enough My bad.
Buckaroohawk,
Hopefully, the images below will help clarify what I have at the back of the hull. I haven't actually modeled the hangar opening yet, still needs to be done. Will do that after I get the other stuff worked out.
Ryo80,
Here are some straight on shots of what I have. They seem close to the blueprints, but not quite.
Strange. In the side view image, the secondary hull still looks too big to me, buy it looks right in the front and top views. Maybe it's just because you haven't added the warp stuts and engines yet. They go a long way toward balancing the ship's profile. In any case, the build seems to be going well. Have you thrown any exterior light sources on it yet? I noticed the cut-outs for the windows and I'm hoping they won't show any of those dastardly "polygonal shadows" that happen sometimes. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Buckaroohawk, I really appreciate your help.
The profiles match the blueprints that I am using fairly closely. I will put more of a gentle curve in the front of the neck. I think the engineering/torpedo section needs a more of a graceful taper going towards the rear of the neck. Kind of hard to make that out on the blueprints.
All the windows along the rim of the saucer have been opened up and little rooms have been added. The rooms are pretty basic with a door desk and chair. Each room has it's own independent light source which so far seems to render okay in most situations. Think I may add a luminance chanel to the materials instead of lights and see how that goes. And then there is the rec area which has its own interior as well.
I think the shape of the secondary hull is a little off towards the aft end - your model remains pretty straight there after the big bend is done, I think it needs to slope outward more i.e. it should start to be just a little concave around the fantail/cutout area
orange is more like your model is now, green is (exaggerated) what I think it needs to look like:
PS: Might be easier to see in these shots from TMP, it's subtle, much more apparent in motion with the highly reflective paintjob though
i always resisted adding that concave slope on the aft portion of the hull too, but i finally broke down and used it on my own current version. it was the only way i could get the dome above the bay doors to come out right. that one section, getting it to blend in nicely and correctly shaped, has given me more fits of insanity over the years than any other part of the ship! :devil:
Melak,
I see what you mean by the profile of the secondary hull. That must be why it didn't look quite right. I'll play around with the shape tomorrow at work on my lunch.
Anystar,
Your images of the Enterprise you are working on were a great help to me. Thank you.
I've played around with the neck and am feeling pretty good about it now. Well, at least for the time being...
I don't know if this is quite a fair comparison based on a slight camera angle difference but you are looking really close to photos of the model in construction. Especially along the top of the secondary hull. In this comparison, the neck and torpedo assembly appear spot on for the most part. I'll put a tweak suggestion in the next post. I realize you haven't done it yet, but this comparison might help some with the shuttle bay area.
On another point, it may be true that the piece (name?) hanging down from the torpedo bay in front is a little thick, and the hull doesn't quite go forward enough, and may need a tad more tapering (at least at the bottom) as it goes forward. I don't know. Camera angles...
The torpedo tube section rises out of the secondary hull a little forward of where you currently have it. There is at least one abrupt taper of the hull that takes it out to the forward red line. You probably just haven't modeled that yet.
Wow there are some great eyes here. I am starting to model this baby so thanks for all the prior heads up. I like how she is coming along and your dedication to geting it "right". I do find it helpfull to overlay ortho pics over my model to check the scale and size of things. Even better is to have a physical model for referance. I wish you luck in advance for the nacells. I put them on hold and moved to the saucer.
It's looking good - but I find it hard to judge, it looks unbalanced with the deflector area not present
I know what you mean Melak. I am using the blueprints (c) 2009 Quantum Reality Inc. IT would be nice to have the actual studio blueprints. As was pointed out before, there are differences in the models they used between close-up larger scale sections from the full size studio model.
Brandenberg,
The profile does appear off when compared to a photo of the studio model. I am including a screenshot of my model overlaid on the blueprints that I am working from. Maybe the blueprints are off, but the model lines up pretty close to them. I am confused now and not sure how to proceed.
I feel your pain. I didn't know you had such good blue prints so I apologize. There is the "orthographic view" versus "perspective view" issue here. The photo camera collected light rays at one fixed point which means that because the camera was above the level of the cutout at the back of the hull, the closer edge "rolls down" in the view (does that make sense).
The perspective issue also means the near engine on the model photo will be significantly bigger and the "far" engine significantly smaller than the real size. The real engine size will be halfway between the near engine and far engine (as if the engine was in the same plane as the secondary hull.)
I also have a pretty good eye for things, and still think my second post, red marks are worth looking at. If it was me, I would stick with the plans, except for possibly deviating on those areas. I am all but 100% certain the curved piece just below the impulse engine (the mount for the saucer) is incorrect in the plans.
It's official. I am totally depressed and worn out over trying to model the aft section of the secondary hull and shuttle bay. This is the best I have been able to come up with after 8 separate tries at getting it right. (not too impressive) There are so many danged compound curves that it is driving me nuts. I've got creases and unsmooth sections (both in poly's and contours). My mesh looks like crap when I compare it to anystar's TMP Enterprise.
At this rate, it will be a 5 year mission to model the Enterprise.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to model this section, I am all ears.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any problems with the model in the image you posted. That area of the ship is particularly maddening, but it looks to me like you've done well recreating it. What might happen when you start adding details is anyone's guess, as it stands now, though, I can't find any real fault with it.
Maybe I am being too critical of my own work. Since I will be uploading this model to the downloads section, I would like it to be as good as possible. Guess I will just continue on and maybe revisit this in the future.
Welcome to the hardest part of 1701A. I ended up using even individual point placement followed by a number of hours of point movements with symmetry on. Gives me the heebie geebies even thinking about it. Still unsatisfied with the experience. However, might be able to do it quicker now.
I see what he is reffering to on the aft section. Can we perhaps get a wire frame of this area both before subd and after? Would make it easier to suggest how to fix this area or how to get the look you want...
Welcome to the hardest part of 1701A. I ended up using even individual point placement followed by a number of hours of point movements with symmetry on. Gives me the heebie geebies even thinking about it. Still unsatisfied with the experience. However, might be able to do it quicker now.
amen brother. and ditto on how i did it as well.
in my experience, a lot of it depends on the slope of the hull as it gets back there to where you start to taper it. close attention has to be paid to marrying both the angle of that slope, and the radius of the spherical area together. as i mentioned earlier, ive re-modeled that section hundreds of times trying to get it right.
just dont lose faith! you will eventually get something you like out of it.
.l...A five year mission...to explore NEW compound curves and New multipoint vectors...to bold model perfect what so few have modeled perfectly before...
just dont lose faith! you will eventually get something you like out of it.
Haven't lost faith yet, but close...
.l...A five year mission...to explore NEW compound curves and New multipoint vectors...to bold model perfect what so few have modeled perfectly before...
LOL
how do you do edge bevels with sharp corners nearby? normally they give hidious results.
Hideous. That is the perfect term to describe what happens. When I bevel the edges, I end up with a gazillion polys at certain points. I delete the gazillion polys and points and then reconnect everything up manually.
Update for today. As anystar put it, don't lose faith. So, I started the secondary hull all over again. This time, when I get to a stage I like, I save it and put it into my re-use folder. If I mess something up or don't like something, I just pull it out of the re-use folder and don't have to reinvent the wheel. Worked on the front of the hull around the sensor dish as well as the back around the shuttle bay.
The inner area surrounding the hangar doors looks too deep now. The walls to either side of the doors (where the greebly bits and the blue light slots belong) should be flush with the outer edge of the hull. The curved hull above the doors (where the red "windows" are) is at too steep an angle as well. Man, this is giving me harsh flashbacks of my previous attempts to model this baby. I ended up doing each section separately, then fit them together as best I could before attaching them together to form one piece. It wasn't entirely successful, but it kept me from going completely insane.
Posts
i dont know, from this angle it looks much more acute than it probably is, the cutout on the lower side of the hull will make that taper apear much sharper than it really is.
one thing i can note though. where the neck bends forward above the torpedo section, you have a straight bend, it actually curves close to the same radius as the torpedo room roof. you can see part of what im talking about on mine: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?78192-My-Random-W.I.P.-thread&p=543769&viewfull=1#post543769
Buckaroohawk,
Hopefully, the images below will help clarify what I have at the back of the hull. I haven't actually modeled the hangar opening yet, still needs to be done. Will do that after I get the other stuff worked out.
Ryo80,
Here are some straight on shots of what I have. They seem close to the blueprints, but not quite.
Al
The profiles match the blueprints that I am using fairly closely. I will put more of a gentle curve in the front of the neck. I think the engineering/torpedo section needs a more of a graceful taper going towards the rear of the neck. Kind of hard to make that out on the blueprints.
All the windows along the rim of the saucer have been opened up and little rooms have been added. The rooms are pretty basic with a door desk and chair. Each room has it's own independent light source which so far seems to render okay in most situations. Think I may add a luminance chanel to the materials instead of lights and see how that goes. And then there is the rec area which has its own interior as well.
Al
orange is more like your model is now, green is (exaggerated) what I think it needs to look like:
PS: Might be easier to see in these shots from TMP, it's subtle, much more apparent in motion with the highly reflective paintjob though
Melak,
I see what you mean by the profile of the secondary hull. That must be why it didn't look quite right. I'll play around with the shape tomorrow at work on my lunch.
Anystar,
Your images of the Enterprise you are working on were a great help to me. Thank you.
I've played around with the neck and am feeling pretty good about it now. Well, at least for the time being...
Al
Thanks...
Al
Brandenberg,
How is this looking now?
Al
I don't know if this is quite a fair comparison based on a slight camera angle difference but you are looking really close to photos of the model in construction. Especially along the top of the secondary hull. In this comparison, the neck and torpedo assembly appear spot on for the most part. I'll put a tweak suggestion in the next post. I realize you haven't done it yet, but this comparison might help some with the shuttle bay area.
On another point, it may be true that the piece (name?) hanging down from the torpedo bay in front is a little thick, and the hull doesn't quite go forward enough, and may need a tad more tapering (at least at the bottom) as it goes forward. I don't know. Camera angles...
I know what you mean Melak. I am using the blueprints (c) 2009 Quantum Reality Inc. IT would be nice to have the actual studio blueprints. As was pointed out before, there are differences in the models they used between close-up larger scale sections from the full size studio model.
Brandenberg,
The profile does appear off when compared to a photo of the studio model. I am including a screenshot of my model overlaid on the blueprints that I am working from. Maybe the blueprints are off, but the model lines up pretty close to them. I am confused now and not sure how to proceed.
Al
The perspective issue also means the near engine on the model photo will be significantly bigger and the "far" engine significantly smaller than the real size. The real engine size will be halfway between the near engine and far engine (as if the engine was in the same plane as the secondary hull.)
I also have a pretty good eye for things, and still think my second post, red marks are worth looking at. If it was me, I would stick with the plans, except for possibly deviating on those areas. I am all but 100% certain the curved piece just below the impulse engine (the mount for the saucer) is incorrect in the plans.
Great job on matching the plans BTW! :thumb:
Oh and where did you get them?!
Here is a link to the blueprints I am using.
Strategic Design Constitution Blueprints
Al
At this rate, it will be a 5 year mission to model the Enterprise.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to model this section, I am all ears.
Al
Maybe I am being too critical of my own work. Since I will be uploading this model to the downloads section, I would like it to be as good as possible. Guess I will just continue on and maybe revisit this in the future.
Al
I think the ship so far is great.
Al
in my experience, a lot of it depends on the slope of the hull as it gets back there to where you start to taper it. close attention has to be paid to marrying both the angle of that slope, and the radius of the spherical area together. as i mentioned earlier, ive re-modeled that section hundreds of times trying to get it right.
just dont lose faith! you will eventually get something you like out of it.
(Que Music)
LOL
Hideous. That is the perfect term to describe what happens. When I bevel the edges, I end up with a gazillion polys at certain points. I delete the gazillion polys and points and then reconnect everything up manually.
Update for today. As anystar put it, don't lose faith. So, I started the secondary hull all over again. This time, when I get to a stage I like, I save it and put it into my re-use folder. If I mess something up or don't like something, I just pull it out of the re-use folder and don't have to reinvent the wheel. Worked on the front of the hull around the sensor dish as well as the back around the shuttle bay.
Al