Tobias, could you shoot me something that would help in deciphering the construction of the front of the bussards? I've been looking at that and ...then I go hide before the headache comes. What was your total poly count? I'm approaching 1 meg, but that's before cleanup.
Hope that helps - a screenshot of the inner workings. There are two big fans with slightly strange formed blades.
Total polycount including some simple interiors was around 1.2 million polys.
I have read that about turbo smooth and quads, but am still in the dark about what the downfall is? Does it have something to do with animation or is it just a matter of artifacts in the mesh? I have just a few very small tri's in hidden or very flat areas and so far everything looks ok.
Just by doing some clean up and eliminating some unnecessary splines, I was able to reduce my poly count from slightly over 1 meg to about 750k. I was really surprised by that and the minimum amount of tweaking to get those results. Quite encouraging.
Tobias, thank you for the screen grab. It will help plenty. I am so amazed by your work and the speed at which you can produce it. Without your references, I would be lost and wouldn't even have attempted this project. Please accept my clumsy mimicry of your work as a tribute to your skills. At this point, I can only try and imitate - the creativity will hopefully build on that as my skills progress.
Worked on the side and lower part of the saucer, the dish, and section behind the dish. I am having a bit of trouble with the smooth integration of the vents into the curved part of the body as you can see, but it was the same with the vents in the upper caps of the nacelles. This time I hope it won't take me as long to get it all smooth.
Fixed the vent artifacts behind the dish. Took much less time than before and learned something new and useful in the process. You know that old saying about teaching an old horse a new trick? - hah, out the window with that one
Window goodness!!! They are modeled in, but I wanted to play around with some lights and the render. I don't know why there are artifacts around the saucer, but it has something to do with the modeled rings and the way mental ray interprets the channels so close together. So much to learn :thumb:
I don't know why there are artifacts around the saucer, but it has something to do with the modeled rings and the way mental ray interprets the channels so close together. So much to learn :thumb:
If I'm correct it's because of the level of AA...
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB 1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD 32 GB RAM Windows 11 Pro
Yeah, those are wonderful artifacts created by most 3D programs when they attempt to render modeled grid lines. There should be a specific AA setting (possibly a post-processing filter) that will fix those. Of course, if you rendered images a bit bigger, (say 3,000 pixels wide or so) that would fix the issue also.
I don't know anything about AA. Isn't that a 12 step program?
Seriously though, if anyone is familiar with Max, where are the settings to fiddle around with that? Does that have anything to do with ambient occlusion? If so, I don't have that turned on.
AA is anti-aliasing. It's that setting that makes curves look like curves and not jagged edges. If you have a manual, you might want to look there for the AA settings and how to activate them.
With Mental Ray as your assigned renderer, go to Render Setup>Renderer>Sampling Quality> Samples Per Pixel and make those settings higher. Just beware that this can get quite expensive timewise. If you're still having problems then you should check your video card settings. This has nothing to do with ambient occlusion.
Cracked open the ole manual, YouTube, and various tutorials on the subject and got some good advice - all starting right here, off course. I found a compromise in the settings so I get decent renders for you guys, while maintaining a relatively fast render pace for now. The beauty shots after texturing will be the ones that can be cranked up.
Update: Throat piece (for lack of a better description) and a render with the rings not so distorted.
The furnace fire in the throat piece is just for fun while I was experimenting with multi materials.
Hope you guys don't mind my posting all these pics, but I'm getting pretty excited as this is taking more and more form. As I figure out basic modeling in Max and incorporate my knowledge from another 3D app, things are moving right along. I'm gonna have to hurry and get the modeling done soon, since we are moving to Southern Cal in the next few weeks. Just wanted to share one more pic of the base of the throat area since it was giving me a bit of a challenge, but it turned out quite nice. If anyone has any questions about this project, please feel free to ask.
Btw, the technique I used to cut out the windows in the side of the saucer came from a combination of three sites, one of them right here:
I was using a program called Animation Master by Hash Inc, no kidding about the hash part Got pretty good with the modeling part and wanted to move to a more main stream app. Although AM is a spline modeling app, it translated nicely over to Max in basic principles and modeling techniques. The reason I am able to smooth out my Max meshes is because I apply what I learned with AM. And off course, I picked up a few tricks along the way.
After laying off the computer for a year and a half, I got the bug again and started working with Max. There are some awesome tutorials out there on the web and I went through some of the best to familiarize myself with Max.
I gave a shout out to Ben and Chris Tate of 3D Tuts, but I'll gladly do so again here. They are brothers who post some great tutorials on the web. Here is one I just finished:
That website is a great reference for beginners and more advanced peeps who want to study the 3D world. I hope it's ok to put a link to another web site like this? I have no affiliation with the Tate brothers or cgtuts, just appreciate their help in getting me this far.
So there you go in a nut shell
Here is one of my last works I did with AM. Note the AM render engine isn't suited for stuff like this. One more reason for switching to Max.
To my knowledge, it's never been against the forum rules to post links to reference sites, tutorial sites, etc. We post links all the time. What's illegal is posting links to products for sale with no other intent than to promote the sale of said products, which you're clearly not doing. You're just posting a link to a great resource site, which many of us have done in the past.
That Ferrari is sweet. You're lucky to have started with a program that's easy to translate into Max modeling. That's rare, since most programs seem to have their own way of doing things.
Now I know why Tobias had several versions of the Enterprise - you get one thing done, think about it and say: Hey, I can do that better now that I've got the hang of it.
Something you imagine would be a piece of cake turns into a dirt worm. The vents on the underside of the Bussards were a real PITA! They are not aligned to any axis, they taper, and they have to fit in the hole already created for them. After pulling some hair out, I finally got them to look ok.
In the process, I also spend a lot of time reworking the whole Bussard assembly, trying to get some of the minor kinks out of places that were being fussy. Oh, heck, come to think of it, I pretty much worked on every part of the ship, refining to the best of my ability. I like the way the reworked impulse engines came out. Right now I am working on making the collar that connects the saucer to the neck section. When I look at Tobias's references, I am just amazed at the detail he put into every section of his amazing model. It seems to be a never ending project, but so far I'm still very enthusiastic about it. The texturing will be another story.
You're doing a great job, but I did notice a slight inaccuracy, I think. I believe the base of your nacelle pylons are supposed to smoothly blend into the bottom curve of the main shuttlebay. Currently, it seems the curve is too high.
Here's a blu-ray screen cap with a good angle of the area. I pushed the levels to brighten up the section where the pylons connect. Is that the area you are wondering about? Looking at this and a similar pose of my model, you are absolutely right. There are several other issues from this comparison as well.
The triangles at the top of the neck are further apart, the bump tunnel going down the back of the neck is a bit flatter than I have it, my main body needs to have more volume in the vertical, and...the list goes on.
I appreciate you pointing that out and putting your critical eye on my work. Will try and straighten all of that out and then post the update.
Also, it looks like the "lip" under the shuttlebay might be a tad thicker on yours (but not much.) It's cool that you were able to post an angle so similar to what you rendered. That really helps compare things and, aside from a few small places, it's looking very accurate.
It is close. It's gonna be a real pain to move the geometry of the pylons down to where they need to be. Well, I look at it this way, anyone can lay down splines and say, hey, look at what I've done. It takes a bit more gumption to try and correct something that affects such a large part of the mesh. Started on it last night, but was too tired and let it go. Will give it a shot now...
Thank you Nightfever. Been re working my mesh and will have something to post pretty soon. Looked at the WIP thread of your JJPrise. Very nice work. I'm working in Max and have yet to figure out how to get that nice green glowy effect you've got here. I've googled many terms in search of a tutorial on this, but it's hard to describe.
I tried all day to reproduce that in Max, but I just started looking like your avatar after a while When you say visible lights, do you mean volumetric lights? Still have so much to learn:p
Also been working on repositioning the wings/struts, what a pain. Once you start moving vertices, it never stops. I've also been checking more references, especially blu-ray screen caps, and I am convinced that the line from the struts does not flow in one unbroken curve down and around the shuttle bay. See the attached pic.
The two top arrows show the point at which the curve gets noticeably interrupted. The two bottom arrows give a sense of how high up the struts are attached compared to the side and lip of the shuttle bay.
Mine was a bit high though, and I've moved it down while going over the whole mesh and smoothing it out. Not posting the reworked secondary yet, since I got a little too creative with the lighting and I have to get it back to the way it was. Stay tuned...
Posts
Hope that helps - a screenshot of the inner workings. There are two big fans with slightly strange formed blades.
Total polycount including some simple interiors was around 1.2 million polys.
Just by doing some clean up and eliminating some unnecessary splines, I was able to reduce my poly count from slightly over 1 meg to about 750k. I was really surprised by that and the minimum amount of tweaking to get those results. Quite encouraging.
Tobias, thank you for the screen grab. It will help plenty. I am so amazed by your work and the speed at which you can produce it. Without your references, I would be lost and wouldn't even have attempted this project. Please accept my clumsy mimicry of your work as a tribute to your skills. At this point, I can only try and imitate - the creativity will hopefully build on that as my skills progress.
Here is an update of the underside...
If I'm correct it's because of the level of AA...
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
Seriously though, if anyone is familiar with Max, where are the settings to fiddle around with that? Does that have anything to do with ambient occlusion? If so, I don't have that turned on.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqRhLEHgwgTKxsalM5YznYQ
Formerly furswift
Update: Throat piece (for lack of a better description) and a render with the rings not so distorted.
The furnace fire in the throat piece is just for fun while I was experimenting with multi materials.
Btw, the technique I used to cut out the windows in the side of the saucer came from a combination of three sites, one of them right here:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?15346-Starship-windows-with-Interior
Thanks Aceman
http://www.madfishway.rr.nu/
Thank you Madfish
One more form right here:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/content.php?134-3ds-Max-Tutorial-Cutting-on-Complex-Surfaces-Part-1
Thank you Melak
That's looking superb so far. You're really picking up Max quickly and doing an excellent job on this build. What software were you using before?
I was using a program called Animation Master by Hash Inc, no kidding about the hash part
After laying off the computer for a year and a half, I got the bug again and started working with Max. There are some awesome tutorials out there on the web and I went through some of the best to familiarize myself with Max.
I gave a shout out to Ben and Chris Tate of 3D Tuts, but I'll gladly do so again here. They are brothers who post some great tutorials on the web. Here is one I just finished:
http://cg.tutsplus.com/tag/ben-tate/
That website is a great reference for beginners and more advanced peeps who want to study the 3D world. I hope it's ok to put a link to another web site like this? I have no affiliation with the Tate brothers or cgtuts, just appreciate their help in getting me this far.
So there you go in a nut shell
Here is one of my last works I did with AM. Note the AM render engine isn't suited for stuff like this. One more reason for switching to Max.
That Ferrari is sweet.
Something you imagine would be a piece of cake turns into a dirt worm. The vents on the underside of the Bussards were a real PITA! They are not aligned to any axis, they taper, and they have to fit in the hole already created for them. After pulling some hair out, I finally got them to look ok.
In the process, I also spend a lot of time reworking the whole Bussard assembly, trying to get some of the minor kinks out of places that were being fussy. Oh, heck, come to think of it, I pretty much worked on every part of the ship, refining to the best of my ability. I like the way the reworked impulse engines came out. Right now I am working on making the collar that connects the saucer to the neck section. When I look at Tobias's references, I am just amazed at the detail he put into every section of his amazing model. It seems to be a never ending project, but so far I'm still very enthusiastic about it. The texturing will be another story.
Here's the latest render...
The triangles at the top of the neck are further apart, the bump tunnel going down the back of the neck is a bit flatter than I have it, my main body needs to have more volume in the vertical, and...the list goes on.
I appreciate you pointing that out and putting your critical eye on my work. Will try and straighten all of that out and then post the update.
Stay tuned...
Also been working on repositioning the wings/struts, what a pain. Once you start moving vertices, it never stops. I've also been checking more references, especially blu-ray screen caps, and I am convinced that the line from the struts does not flow in one unbroken curve down and around the shuttle bay. See the attached pic.
The two top arrows show the point at which the curve gets noticeably interrupted. The two bottom arrows give a sense of how high up the struts are attached compared to the side and lip of the shuttle bay.
Mine was a bit high though, and I've moved it down while going over the whole mesh and smoothing it out. Not posting the reworked secondary yet, since I got a little too creative with the lighting and I have to get it back to the way it was. Stay tuned...