A basic shape - 3Dmax8

EBOLII

I feel like a complete fool. I have been unable to create a basic shape and have tried several different methods over the past 3hrs
this is what I have. I would like some suggestions to kick-start my thoughts back in the right direction please

http://eboliigraphix.com/WEB/warbird/shape.jpg

fractalsponge

What's wrong with extrude and boolean? Not quite sure what the intended final shape is though...

EBOLII

It tessellates without a smooth surface....I will post a image or 2 asap.....Why am I unable to create this in a sub-patch? Am I thinking incorrect/ How would you build it? The best example of the shape would be the top hump of the Romulan Warbird..

Melak

Personally I'd just use a basic shape like this and subD the hell out of it

Berkut

I'd chamfer the edges in this case

[Deleted User]

I would take the shape (spline) you have and reduce the interpolations (it's up to you how low) in the edit spline section. This should give you a shape that when meshsmoothed will be pretty close if not exactly what you have when you increase the interpolations.

Extrude the spline and boolean the extrusion with your (poly) surface the extrusion should disappear and the surface should be cut, add an edit poly modifier and see the damage in terms of stray verts etc. Delete extraneous surface polys (outside the shape) and clean up the edges.

If you feel that you need to increase you vertex accuracy to minimise clean-up check how many points are in the simplified shape, make a note of their co-ordinates (only the X / Y should be necessary) then add a slice modifier to the surface mesh so that there is a poly intersection at every point, apart from a few, most troublesome vertex points should be eliminated.

For the basic surface and for your time and sanity I would suggest only editing half of the shape as it is symmetrical and then mirroring and attaching the other half when the surface is complete.

This works on the assumption that the surface is then to be extruded the edges chamfered and the entire object meshsmoothed at least by one iteration, which is why I would suggest setting the intitial spline interpolation low (I think the defaut is 6 so a 2/1/0 should be fine depending on how much control you want).

This is not a tried and tested answer just off the top of my head while I'm at work, I'll go home and test it see if it works!

Coolhand

the guys are right, build low poly and subdivide it.

spudmonkey

As an alternative, you could create it as a multi-shape loft, though personally I would go for one of the suggestions above. Also bear in mind that it may be easier to make half of it and then use the symmetry modifier to complete the shape

Viper

I agree with coolhand. Build a low-poly mesh using quads only and subdivide for the final shape. Unfortunately, I don't have access to 3ds max right now, so can't make an example, but you have to be careful with the topology of the mesh, otherwise you run in all kinds of trouble.

The model that Berkut did is close. Not the one with the chamfers, but the really low poly one. What it needs is more edges that are parallel to the ones he has. Anyway, I can show something later if you can wait a few hours :shiner:

Coolhand

here... basically started with a plane, used soft selection to shape it. added the arch with FFD. Remember the closer together the lines are, the more control you have over the resulting shape, but the harder it is to make it really smooth.

Viper

There you go...exactly what I was going to make

MadKoiFish

Just got the pm A lot of what everyone shows is what Id suggest, biggest thing is what your planning to do with it, are you just looking for the "skin" A thin shape or is this to build off from.

Reason your getting render errors is it looks like your cutting a turbosmoothed or mesh smoothed shape, you need to collapse the modifier and make sure all the edges are visable. Other is cutting shapes across a curve is always a nightmare. I would model the shape then warp it like Coolhand has done.

XFozzboute

I'm not entirerly sure how I would do it but Coolhand's idea looks like a good way. Normaly all I do is use boxes witha bunch of extrusions so this is a little bit beyond me. Wish I could help.

Viper

The benefit of using sub-d modeling is that once you know how to do it, you can pretty much do any kind of object, instead of having one set of techniques to do this, another to do that and so on. Once I learned it, I never really looked back.

EBOLII

So far I am sad to say I have had no success in creating the shape without extreme flaws. A positive note, as stated by Viper I have honed my sub-d skills increasing my skill level [got side tracked] it is not a total loss.....Anyone wish to expand on this discussion?

EBOLII

Well here is the intended shape.....

Still trying a few ideas and would really like some imput

http://eboliigraphix.com/WEB/warbird/bad.jpg

MadKoiFish

Id subdiv that whole thing. With attention to the hull plating flow. Maybe when I have more time I can toss together a rough poly shape.

Brickhead

For starters don't try to build the entire shape. Work on just on half of the wing, when you finally have what you want, mirror the other side. I personally would start with a primitive object, like a plane. Use a moderate amount of segmentations and edit across the plane a little at a time. You can use the quick slice tool or the cut tool and slowly add segments and continue to edit. Turn the sub D on often to see the results, turn off to continue to edit. But trying to build this as one piece might be a little beyond your skill level for now.
Hope this helps, keep at it you'll get it.

D.M.J.

I'd use SubD too, I'd build half of it completely flat from a top view, then lift vertices (with axis-constrained move) into shape with the side view to give it the 3D complex-curve you want, then mirror, combine, clean up object.

Perhaps you might also consider tweaking a segment of a NURBS sphere so that it matches the contours of the hull.

EBOLII

First Thank you all for the input. I have had success working out the shape but now am stalled at a new not so much frustration just stalled on how to create properly...a edge roll.

take the shape and then roll the edge over, not just a chamfer edge but a rounded edge

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/trek/ds9tech/wm_Defiant_NacelleFwd.jpg

Like the rolled edge on the Defiant that goes into a sharp inside extrusion

spudmonkey

Is this the bit you are talking about?



If so, create a solid object that follows the red line. Inset and move verts to create the green line (or shape merge and tidy or whatever you feel comfortable with). You can now chamfer the red line to create the curve. Extrude the inner part and scale it so that is perfectly flat (the blue line) and move it into position. Then I would delete the faces that make the angled surface in the top right of the blue part and use bridge to close the hole

Melak

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring too, this?

EBOLII

rounded edge between the red and green

MadKoiFish

Multiple chamfers or edge looping in subdivision.

EBOLII

"edge looping?" I am not familiar with that at all......................ah dummy! never mind I know what that is

MadKoiFish

It is where you use loops of edges to control the smoothing that happens with subdivision.

Here are 4 boxes, first from the right is a plain box, second I added loops, third one is how subdiv affects that box with those loops ( I used turbosmooth but meshsmooth will have similar results, keep in mind I have no smoothing groups associated with anything here)
The final far left box is the far right with subdiv and NO loops. So with this you can see how loops control the rounding of a object.

Here is a example of a contoured corner using smoothing groups to control the flat areas so you can later remove the extra geometry that just wastes poly count etc. This isnt a exact but it gives an idea.

There is a lot more you can clean up on the lowest object but it is just to give an idea.

MKF-

EBOLII

good info Thank you. been trying it

Okay starting to come together..almost

How do I correct the curve? to get a good smooth?

http://eboliigraphix.com/WEB/warbird/bad2.jpg

Coolhand

you need to employ the same rules as you would to get a good chamfer, you need to cut around the edge and weld the lines into the shape i've indicated. where i've indicated in yellow, if you removed that 'loop' or pulled it back toward the next row, you'd get a more gentle curve. pull it tighter and the curve will become tighter.

You should really investigate a good tutorial for this technique since you'd get a quicker feel to the fundamentals of the technique. there are plenty of good ones for cars, or maybe other things,

Anyone have a link handy to a good tutorial?

Failing that, The golden rules to a smooth surface are, keep everything regularly spaced (so where you have lines bunched up more than others you'll generally have an uneven curve ) and to keep everything as quads, since tri's (notice you have a triangle on the edge in the lumpiest part of that curve) or other shapes will cause unevenness - lumps, dips, flatspots, etc.

MadKoiFish

loops, run loops across the opening, and get rid of that tri, and try to stick to quads for the whole thing (Polygons with 4 edges)

With this image to adjust the curve etc you just make those loops larger or smaller and drag the points around, HOWEVER the loops must be done last so that they do not change any angles in the control mesh (the unsubd object)

The reason your getting errors is the lack of control edges and those non quad polies, using tris and 5+ edged polies can be used to create effects but often is relagated to organic modeling. So those "loose" edges on the curve and the tri make that error you get in rendering.

Also note Id get rid of all that "stuff" in the stack, and stick with editable polygon. My rule of thumb is to avoid as many "modifiers" as possible. Too often when I started out Id have a stack of modifiers and max takes a huge poop.

Just personal pref.

EBOLII

First - MadKoiFish + Coolhand....thank you for taking the time to assist me. You fellas have pointed me in a great direction and I look forward to adding wing details with MadKoiFish hull plate technique
So I say Thank you

I still have some tweaking and editing to taste but I have been able to create the basic shape that I requested in this thread so again ..................Thank you

http://eboliigraphix.com/WEB/warbird/good.jpg

EBOLII

Okay a new frustration perhaps I am not thinking accurately. How would you sub-divide this corner for a smooth flow?