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3DUSS Hathaway
evil_genius_180
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As anybody who is familiar with my work knows, I love the Constellation-class. I was a kid when TNG aired and I first got a look at the ship in the episode Peak Performance. Funny side note: since I saw that episode before The Battle, I thought Picard had a model of the Hathaway in his ready room. 
ItA’s been one of my favorite ships since then. IA’ve built a couple CGI models of the ship, first a few years ago and then a couple more models after getting more references. Anywho, since IA’ve switched CGI programs since I last built one, itA’s time for a new model.
Due to TNG being on Blu-Ray and TrekCore having a great gallery of reference images, IA’m armed with some new references of the model in HD. Peak Performance especially has some really nice shots of the models, especially some closeups with those wonderful details in rich HD. (stuff looks a lot less blurry in HD ) Unfortunately, though, not everything they did with HD Trek is to my liking. One of the best shots of the ship that shows the rear is this shot:
ThatA’s taken from one of my regular DVDs and, unfortunately, many of the details are just too blurry to see that well. Since the piece between the impulse engines is missing now, that would be the best shot to get a look at that, if they hadnA’t screwed things up in HD. This is the shot in HD:
That shot offers a wonderful look at the back of the model, or I should say the back of a model. It only took me a few seconds of looking at that to realize thatA’s not the studio model. ItA’s a frakking CGI model. And itA’s inaccurate. Many of the shapes are wonky and the parts look different than they do on the studio model. And I donA’t know what in the hell that crap is between the impulse engines, but it doesnA’t match up with this shot from later in the episode:
That shot still has the studio model in it. Even if you havenA’t studied the model like I have, you can tell itA’s a physical model and not CGI because the nacelles have seams. ThereA’s no good reason for a person to recreate seams from part joins in CGI, so thatA’s a sure sign itA’s a real model. So, that means that shot is the best look I have at that part of the model, since the buttholes who did the HD conversion screwed things up so badly. I donA’t know what happened to that other shot and why they couldnA’t use the effects shot of the model from the original negatives, but that sucks. If they were going to replace it with CGI, they could have at least gotten somebody to make an accurate model of the ship.
So, anywho, IA’m now armed with new references, even with that minor disappointment. I started my model with what a lot of people donA’t like doing on TMP-era ships, the nacelles. I tried to make them accurate and smooth as possible, using every available reference I have of the Constellation-class. One mistake a lot of people make when building this ship is to just make them like the TMP Enterprise modelA’s nacelles and modify the backs. Since the Constellation-class filming model wasnA’t a kitbash like the ready room model was, the parts are similar but different. After all, itA’s not like they had a couple spare refit models laying around that they could (or would) cut up for parts. Those parts had to be made from scratch, so there are differences, just as there are on the Miranda-class.
So, this is what I have so far:
TheyA’re smooth, but each nacelle weigh in at over 77K polygons. With the little bit of the ship that IA’ve done, (counting that there will be four nacelles and two of those greeble-tastic pylons) IA’m already over my total polygon count for my last TrueSpace model.
ItA’s been one of my favorite ships since then. IA’ve built a couple CGI models of the ship, first a few years ago and then a couple more models after getting more references. Anywho, since IA’ve switched CGI programs since I last built one, itA’s time for a new model.Due to TNG being on Blu-Ray and TrekCore having a great gallery of reference images, IA’m armed with some new references of the model in HD. Peak Performance especially has some really nice shots of the models, especially some closeups with those wonderful details in rich HD. (stuff looks a lot less blurry in HD
) Unfortunately, though, not everything they did with HD Trek is to my liking. One of the best shots of the ship that shows the rear is this shot:
ThatA’s taken from one of my regular DVDs and, unfortunately, many of the details are just too blurry to see that well. Since the piece between the impulse engines is missing now, that would be the best shot to get a look at that, if they hadnA’t screwed things up in HD. This is the shot in HD:
That shot offers a wonderful look at the back of the model, or I should say the back of a model. It only took me a few seconds of looking at that to realize thatA’s not the studio model. ItA’s a frakking CGI model. And itA’s inaccurate. Many of the shapes are wonky and the parts look different than they do on the studio model. And I donA’t know what in the hell that crap is between the impulse engines, but it doesnA’t match up with this shot from later in the episode:
That shot still has the studio model in it. Even if you havenA’t studied the model like I have, you can tell itA’s a physical model and not CGI because the nacelles have seams. ThereA’s no good reason for a person to recreate seams from part joins in CGI, so thatA’s a sure sign itA’s a real model. So, that means that shot is the best look I have at that part of the model, since the buttholes who did the HD conversion screwed things up so badly. I donA’t know what happened to that other shot and why they couldnA’t use the effects shot of the model from the original negatives, but that sucks. If they were going to replace it with CGI, they could have at least gotten somebody to make an accurate model of the ship.
So, anywho, IA’m now armed with new references, even with that minor disappointment. I started my model with what a lot of people donA’t like doing on TMP-era ships, the nacelles. I tried to make them accurate and smooth as possible, using every available reference I have of the Constellation-class. One mistake a lot of people make when building this ship is to just make them like the TMP Enterprise modelA’s nacelles and modify the backs. Since the Constellation-class filming model wasnA’t a kitbash like the ready room model was, the parts are similar but different. After all, itA’s not like they had a couple spare refit models laying around that they could (or would) cut up for parts. Those parts had to be made from scratch, so there are differences, just as there are on the Miranda-class.
So, this is what I have so far:
TheyA’re smooth, but each nacelle weigh in at over 77K polygons. With the little bit of the ship that IA’ve done, (counting that there will be four nacelles and two of those greeble-tastic pylons) IA’m already over my total polygon count for my last TrueSpace model.
Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
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But here you go, for reference, photos of the studio model from basically all angles: http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/constellation.html
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Ambassador Class
Your model looks to be off to an excellent start so far.
The differences you point out between the original model and the CG HD model are definitely noticeable with the shots side-by-side like that. Pretty striking!
Even funnier side note: that model in his ready room is also not Stargazer!
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I watched The Battle yesterday. This ship has grown on me a little lately, though I find it odd that such a "modern" ship for the time resembles the Constitution components rather than Excelsior. I always thought the model was a kitbash for that reason.
Contrary to every secondary source ever, I tend to think the Excelsior transwarp experiment succeeded, which led to the revision of the warp factor scale for TNG. It's not "transwarp" in the sense of Borg transwarp, but rather "the next version of warp drive." Given Excelsior's launch in 2285 and the warp scale overhaul in the early 2300s, this seems to me not only plausible, but inescapable.
But that changeover wouldn't just negate the existing ships. We see Miranda class ships well into the late 24th Century fighting in the Dominion War, meaning that ships with the external TMP-era nacelle styling remained viable for a hundreds years. That Constellation class ships would exist well into the 2300s isn't at all surprising.
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It was sad to see Season 2's quality... especially after the eye candy we got with Season 1... and subsequently Season 3, 4 and 5.
Your model is looking great so far.
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Doug Drexler did not build that. From EAS:
And, if you'd like, I can point out the inaccuracies.
Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach designed the ready room model based off of the description of Picard's first command from the TNG writer's bible. The bible had a basic description of it being an "obviously older design," or something like that. They didn't have a name or registry number for it, so they just re-organized the decals from one of the TMP kits they pilfered for it. So, it is supposed to be the Stargazer, but they didn't know at the time what the name or registry number of the ship was.
They were unhappy when the producers wanted to go with the TMP refit rather than build the model for the episode, but then much happier when that decision was reversed due to the TMP refit model being a PITA to shoot.
That goes back to what I said about what was in the TNG writer's bible about Picard's first command being an "obviously older design." In the episode Peak Performance, the Hathaway was mentioned as being 80 years old. That would put its commission date in the middle of the 2280s, when the Excelsior was still in its trial runs. It makes little sense to base the ship off of unproven technology. Plus, as McC said, the Constellation herself was supposed to be older than the Excelsior, given the regitry of NX-1974 seen on the "Operation Retrieve" chart in ST6.
Probably the most compelling reason was that the Excelsior was not a very popular design at the time. Even though it's now a fan favorite, it didn't start out that way. When it first appeared in ST3, (with the obvious intention of being a replacement for the familiar Enterprise design) fans threw a fit. They hated the new ship, they wrote letters saying so. The design was going to be scrapped, but then the producers of TNG needed a newer looking ship to fly along side the Enterprise-D and didn't have time or resources to build one. So, they grabbed the Excelsior. It was here that fans began accepting the Excelsior design, because it looked a lot better next to the Enterprise-D than it did next to the Enterprise refit.
I'd hate to be one of the people posted to a Miranda in the Dom war. They're just canon fodder ships. xD I wish that they'd shown New Orleans classes instead.
The Dominion War CGI battles were done with ships they had on hand or could build relatively quickly and inexpensively. The Miranda class CGI model was built for First Contact and they just had to convert it for use, like they did with the other ships from that movie. (I think they were done in Max for the film and had to be converted to Lightwave for the show) Though, they did have to build a higher resolution model for some of the shots in the series, but the Miranda class is well documented and is probably "easier" to do from a source material perspective than the New Orleans class. Plus, a lot of the ships they used are fan favorites. While I certainly like the New Orleans class, I have no idea how popular it is compared to the fan favorite Miranda class.
They did have some spectacular Miranda class explosions in those battles. Though, as much as those seem like cannon fodder, I'd much rather be in one of those than a fighter. You've gotta figure you've got a snowball's chance in hell of living if you're in a fighter going up against a Dominion or Cardassian warship.
That said, the writer's bible isn't canon and what's on-screen is.
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Miranda? Fan favourite? Ugh! Silly fans. xD
What gets me, the number of ships that explode and you don't see one warp core breach. Those explosions should be friggin' huge!!
Now, granted, in order for that annihilation to happen, it needs to interact. Atoms are tiny. Subatomic particles are even tinier. Actually smashing together a beam of deuterium and antideuterium is a pretty precise thing. But when you set loose as much antimatter as your typical Star Trek starship's got to be lugging around in order to undertake even journeys of modest distance, you're going to have some reactions.
But there is a solution.
It's telling to watch which parts of a ship explode. Take the Enterprise destruct sequence in ST3. It's the saucer that detonates, not the engineering hull where the antimatter and the reactor are located. These are explosives that detonate specifically to cripple the ship. The antimatter stores remain untouched...and this makes a fair amount of sense when destroying a ship in orbit of an inhabited planet! Detonating that much antimatter would be liable to vaporize surface life with the tremendous release of x- and gamma rays that come off of such an explosion. It'd be an irresponsible tactic to use, even in the situation Kirk and co. were in. Instead, an alternate destruct method was used that caused the ship to "burn up" in the atmosphere. But, what's more, it leaves room for the antimatter pods to have been ejected safely.
The same thing might hold true for ships destroyed in combat. We see a pair of Mirandas annihilated right next to Defiant during the Dominion War, but neither explodes violently as though it had lost antimatter containment. And this makes sense: both ships are smashed through their saucer sections, not in the engineering section where their warp reactor would be. In the event of catastrophic hull breach like this, it stands to reason that the self-contained antimatter pods, with their own battery-backup power sources, would be ejected far away from any dangerous location and allowed to vent/diffuse their antimatter fuel reserves harmlessly and at low-concentration into space as that battery slowly wore down. Alternately, they could be scooped up and remain in-service if a ship could locate them in a timely-enough fashion.
In other instances, we do see ships violently explode when they lose antimatter containment. Think of the huge Pasteur explosion -- markedly different than the usual "fiery" explosions we see due to combat -- in "All Good Things" when they explicitly said the warp core was going to breach.
But yeah, I think it's reasonable to assume that extra precautions are taken by every species using antimatter as a power source to make sure that it doesn't catastrophically detonate. The risk to their own forces/people is too great to justify using this as a sort of suicide weapon or anything of the sort, and it's much safer for a ship to self-destruct with controlled demolition charges than it is to just light off the antimatter and flood space with x- and gamma rays.
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Trust me, there are inaccuracies. It's hard to model something by photos and have it 100% accurate. I also tend to add a few things that aren't on the studio model, I'm assuming due to time constraints. For example, the sections that look like TMP-style torpedo launcher areas don't have torpedo launchers on them. (the ready room model doesn't have those either) I like to add those. Also, the ship has no docking ports, which are literally a necessity. So, I tend to add those. I just noticed this one when I was looking at TrekCore's HD gallery:
peakperformance_hd_129.jpg
Notice that it says "USS Hathaway" instead of "U.S.S. Hathaway." I've never seen a Trek ship without the periods between the letters in "USS." That's a shot of the physical model, not the CGI one, confirmed by the fact that it's that way on the SD version also. I don't know why it's that way, but mine will say "U.S.S. Hathaway."
Aside from those things, there are a few "personal" things that I like to put on my models. I rarely try to make anything 100% screen accurate.
I never said it was canon, I was merely pointing out that the model was always supposed to represent Picard's first command.
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09/thebattle_hd_149.jpg
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Season 2 was one of those seasons in the remastering that didn't really turn out well... of course, CBS Digital set the bar high with Season 1... Season 2 was outsourced.
However, I agree, not sure how the CG model's rear end differed so much from the studio model...
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I've noticed aswell.
There is really no explanation of why. Such violent uphevals should invariably lead to the release of the antimatter and nearly complete annihilation. But while star trek has embrace anti matter as a powerful producer of energy it doesn't follow thru with that logic.
If a starship were to detonate on a planet (such as seen in the NuTrek or Star Trek 3, the crater in the planet would be moon sized. Just a raisin's or Quarter coin worth of anti matter could send the Shuttle to space with fuel to spare. A Galaxy Class amount of anti-matter could destroy the Earth several times over (35x last projection)
However, I concur with the rest. There are way too many times on Star Trek where ships blow up and I'm expecting more. The Enterprise-D's stardrive section exploding is one where they actually got it right. The thing blew up and created a huge explosion, followed by a shock wave that sent the saucer hurtling towards the planet. That's how it should always be done. I don't care if the explosion started there, the saucer, or in somebody's bathroom. Once the fire from the explosion takes out the magnetic antimatter containment field: BOOM! It would be like a fire starting in the back room of a fireworks store. Once the fire hits the explosives, things go wild.
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This is also one of my favorite saucers to build. It’s got a nice “bulky” look to it. Plus, it’s cool the way Andy Probert and Rick Sternbach blended the Enterprise refit saucer sections into the piece.
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I've been toying with the idea of doing a Defiant-class. Of course, one of the problems with that design is figuring out what size to make it. There are several different scales for it. (not that it would be a problem for me, I'll do whatever looks good to me
I think in part, that goes to Evil's comment about people always wanting to build certain kinds of ships. I, for one, always wanted to build and Ambassador class, but never thought I could pull it off until I started coming here and saw Tobias' and Valkyrie's respective builds. Something about seeing someone else build a high quality model that gives people confidence to try it themselves, I guess.
You're right, these things go in trends. Remember a few years ago, when there were Battlestar WIP threads everywhere?
When I first saw the Constellation it was in an episode where it was called the USS Victory. From the front and limited lighting it appear menacing like Star Destroyer. I didn't realize it was the same model as the Stargazer.
I've come to few of my own conclusions on Defiant. I wanted to create an internal and external model of the ship and did a considerable amount of photomatching on the exterior since noone has precision plans on the ship. When it came to the interior I simply let the ships exterior dictate the size of the ship. Not just the windows but also the largest vertical space for a single deck (like the edge of a saucer section on Sovereign) indicates the ship has 6 decks and over 170 meters long. (depending on deck size) possibly 202 meters. That scale would better fit the Station it would dock at.
My believe is the station was designed to dock ship at the upper pylons. 3 Galors should all be capable of docking at the upper and lower pylons simultaneously. That would definitely allow a Galaxy class ship at over 2500 meter in diameter. The problem with this is doesn't fit the visuals of the station externally.
I proposed a while ago that the station be creatively redone to the proper scale.
Runabout pads reduced in size or redone for numerous pads in the current location
Promenade windows reduced greatly in size (really all the view ports)
More decks.
New Ops cluster or modified to fit the internal space shown. Perhaps a larger dome with additional rooms gone un seen.
-The same should happen to Defiant. It would need less rework but it still needs a proper shuttle bay than what was seen in the CGI which is impossible at Defiant's small size but made to look massive in sound of her voice.
I think fans are the perfect choice for these make overs and could really establish an artist's resume and clout if it's accepted with the possibility of being used in the series correcting DS9 scaling mistakes through out the series.