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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    TrekMD wrote: »
    Nice work! :thumb:

    Thanks.
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member

    This is the only preview, as this particular part is rather short... the next post, will be the completed sequence.
    90066.jpg
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  • Polaris 004Polaris 004199 Posts: 752Member
    COOOOOOOOOL stuff. Really awesome. Although, I don't think we have a real sense that she's traveling warp 9.3+ in these shots. It looks like she's calmly cruising at normal warp to me. I would make the streaks faster, and ad more relative motion to the camera in the opening shot.

    But wow, do these shots look good. I would like nothing better than to see you do this sort of thing with the whole series...
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    COOOOOOOOOL stuff. Really awesome. Although, I don't think we have a real sense that she's traveling warp 9.3+ in these shots. It looks like she's calmly cruising at normal warp to me. I would make the streaks faster, and ad more relative motion to the camera in the opening shot.

    But wow, do these shots look good. I would like nothing better than to see you do this sort of thing with the whole series...

    Yea, the warp stars weren't really that fast in the show either... in order for me to correct them, I'd have to redo each shot one at a time, from the beginning... As for the relative motion, what do you mean?

    Thanks, haha, there'd be some obstacles to overcome, with some of the effects, like the episode True Q... where they appear outside the ship, on the warp nacelle pylon...
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  • maranmaran178 Posts: 39Member
    Looking very nice! Manages to capture the "glory" of the tv-show quite well. :)

    Only thing I feel that's still missing are a few puffs of escaping air and some random particles flying off.
  • count23count23364 Posts: 783Member
    Just a side note, not a criticism of your work... but is it honestly necessary to make a new thread _every_ _single_ _time_ you made a new short clip? Why not just keep them in the one thread and update the OP? It makes things much easier and we can keep track of your whole project progress...
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    maran wrote: »
    Looking very nice! Manages to capture the "glory" of the tv-show quite well. :)

    Only thing I feel that's still missing are a few puffs of escaping air and some random particles flying off.

    Thanks.

    Interesting, well, the only time we saw that was in Generations, but I think that was due to the emergency detachment, where they were "blown" off the stardrives docking section.
    Nadesico wrote: »
    Just a side note, not a criticism of your work... but is it honestly necessary to make a new thread _every_ _single_ _time_ you made a new short clip? Why not just keep them in the one thread and update the OP? It makes things much easier and we can keep track of your whole project progress...

    Well, even though this is part of a larger project, I considered it a separate project, if that makes sense, but if someone wants to merge this thread into Part 1's WIP thread of this project, feel free.
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  • Polaris 004Polaris 004199 Posts: 752Member
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    Interesting, well, the only time we saw that was in Generations, but I think that was due to the emergency detachment, where they were "blown" off the stardrives docking section.
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    Yea, the warp stars weren't really that fast in the show either... in order for me to correct them, I'd have to redo each shot one at a time, from the beginning... As for the relative motion, what do you mean?

    But isn't that what you are doing? Redoing the Starship effects scenes from particular episodes? Do you think if this show were being made or re-made today that they would just copy each shot detail for detail with improved models? Or would they take advantage of the technology and create the shots sometimes in ways that were not possible with optical printing? These clips are freaking wonderful, but I want to see you cut loose more and use the technology to do more with the shots than could have been done at the time. You seem caught up in what you have already seen, reluctant to deviate from the compositions as they were.

    What I mean about the relative motion is that the D should move more relative to the camera in the opening shot, as if the camera were "having difficulty" keeping up with the ship. As it is now, there is less urgency, less a sense of speed in that shot than there should be. It really looks calm and peaceful, just floating by at "ordinary" warp.
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    But isn't that what you are doing? Redoing the Starship effects scenes from particular episodes? Do you think if this show were being made or re-made today that they would just copy each shot detail for detail with improved models? Or would they take advantage of the technology and create the shots sometimes in ways that were not possible with optical printing? These clips are freaking wonderful, but I want to see you cut loose more and use the technology to do more with the shots than could have been done at the time. You seem caught up in what you have already seen, reluctant to deviate from the compositions as they were.

    What I mean about the relative motion is that the D should move more relative to the camera in the opening shot, as if the camera were "having difficulty" keeping up with the ship. As it is now, there is less urgency, less a sense of speed in that shot than there should be. It really looks calm and peaceful, just floating by at "ordinary" warp.

    Yes, but in the TNG episode, even though it was an emergency separation, it wasn't done hastily like in Generations... they'd likely change a few shots up, etc. and claim it's being true to the original, like they did with TOS, but I really want to be true to the original, in every way.

    Well, things like this never come into my mind, I look at the shot, and say this is how it's done, so I gotta do this like this, and I never think to add anything special to it, such as the particles like seen in Generations, etc.

    So, how would I do this more relative moving effect with the camera, etc?
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  • Polaris 004Polaris 004199 Posts: 752Member
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    Yes, but in the TNG episode, even though it was an emergency separation, it wasn't done hastily like in Generations... they'd likely change a few shots up, etc. and claim it's being true to the original, like they did with TOS, but I really want to be true to the original, in every way.

    Well, things like this never come into my mind, I look at the shot, and say this is how it's done, so I gotta do this like this, and I never think to add anything special to it, such as the particles like seen in Generations, etc.

    So, how would I do this more relative moving effect with the camera, etc?

    Yes, I agree about the smoke or atmosphere particles. Or at least I could understand not wanting to add that particular element. After all the Enterprise is more or less operating at peak performance, and if we saw gasses escaping it might indicate to the viewer that something was wrong with her. I could go either way on that particular example. All I am suggesting, in a larger philosophical sense, is don't feel overly constrained. Feel free to IMPROVE the shots your are trying to replicate, even by adding elements or changing angles or shots in fundamental ways. I love these shows and the effects in them, but they could stand a lot of improvement beyond just recreating them digitally.

    I will give you an example of what I mean about the relative motion. Here is a short animation I did of various ships doing identical warp passes.

    http://youtu.be/rdxGWlIYY4s

    These were done very quickly, as a learning experience, and so they are not at all comparable to your utter mastery. Nonetheless, look at the second pass of each ship. (The Olympic Class only has one pass, but the others all have two. 0:18, 0:36, 0:53 etc...) See how the ship moves past the camera? Even though the camera must be clearly moving at high warp in order to see the ship at all, the ship is moving even FASTER and that creates (I think) a more exciting sense of speed. Again, I'm not saying you should do your shot the exact same way, that's not what you are going for here. But maybe the Enterprise could move more quickly toward or away from the camera. I would suggest even a LOT more quickly. Warp 9.3+++++ is FAST, very very FAST even by Trek standards.
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    Yes, I agree about the smoke or atmosphere particles. Or at least I could understand not wanting to add that particular element. After all the Enterprise is more or less operating at peak performance, and if we saw gasses escaping it might indicate to the viewer that something was wrong with her. I could go either way on that particular example. All I am suggesting, in a larger philosophical sense, is don't feel overly constrained. Feel free to IMPROVE the shots your are trying to replicate, even by adding elements or changing angles or shots in fundamental ways. I love these shows and the effects in them, but they could stand a lot of improvement beyond just recreating them digitally.

    I will give you an example of what I mean about the relative motion. Here is a short animation I did of various ships doing identical warp passes.

    http://youtu.be/rdxGWlIYY4s

    These were done very quickly, as a learning experience, and so they are not at all comparable to your utter mastery. Nonetheless, look at the second pass of each ship. (The Olympic Class only has one pass, but the others all have two. 0:18, 0:36, 0:53 etc...) See how the ship moves past the camera? Even though the camera must be clearly moving at high warp in order to see the ship at all, the ship is moving even FASTER and that creates (I think) a more exciting sense of speed. Again, I'm not saying you should do your shot the exact same way, that's not what you are going for here. But maybe the Enterprise could move more quickly toward or away from the camera. I would suggest even a LOT more quickly. Warp 9.3+++++ is FAST, very very FAST even by Trek standards.

    I'll take these tips under advisement for the next version of this I do, as I usually will do multiple versions, this would be the second time I've done the Saucer Sep sequence, here is the first:

    This is before I added credits into the video, this video was made back in 2007... The Galaxy is a STBC model, forget whom, of course the music, etc. is from the episode.
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  • Polaris 004Polaris 004199 Posts: 752Member
    Ha! That older clip is something else! It's always great to see people making the best of what they have, and you did a pretty creative hobbling together of stuff to make that. What program(s) did you use to do that? You really have come a long way since then. It gives me hope.
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    Ha! That older clip is something else! It's always great to see people making the best of what they have, and you did a pretty creative hobbling together of stuff to make that. What program(s) did you use to do that? You really have come a long way since then. It gives me hope.

    I think I was using Max 7 back then... this was shortly after I had started animation, I had a very low powered computer then, I was still using a Pentium 3 I believe, not even 1GHz... less than 1GB RAM... This was way before I could even begin to imagine using AE to composite, so all the effects were done and composited in max, I rendered out the warp stars, etc. and used it as an environment map set to screen when I rendered the ship, the video itself was edited in Movie Maker in Windows XP.
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  • Dr-TimelordDr-Timelord0 Posts: 0Member
    I can never get over how cheesy that moment is in the pilot, make me cringe every time lmao
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    I can never get over how cheesy that moment is in the pilot, make me cringe every time lmao

    Why's it cheesy?
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  • Dr-TimelordDr-Timelord0 Posts: 0Member
    Its cheesy because its the 80's!
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    Its cheesy because its the 80's!

    lol, I love the sequence, well, I'm a die-hard Trekkie, so I love it regardless, haha.
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    Just been altering lights, other effects.

    What do you think so far?
    90180.png
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  • IRMLIRML253 Posts: 1,993Member
    I think it looks the same as before
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    IRML wrote: »
    I think it looks the same as before

    I'm not updating it physically...

    Here is what it looked like before...

    attachment.php?attachmentid=91123&d=1309146420

    The directional lights, etc. barely cast any light on the hull around them... nor did the bussard collectors have any reflections to them...

    I may not get it anything close to your Galaxy class, but I use your renders that I've seen as reference on effects, and stuff.
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  • IRMLIRML253 Posts: 1,993Member
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    The directional lights, etc. barely cast any light on the hull around them... nor did the bussard collectors have any reflections to them...
    the directional lights don't cast any light on the hull around them because that doesn't happen in the show, the bussards don't reflect anything because they are in a totally black scene, either way it still looks the same as before and it's probably a bit patronising to the auther to start a thread saying you are updating their work
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    I may not get it anything close to your Galaxy class, but I use your renders that I've seen as reference on effects, and stuff.
    inadvisable, that'll just lead to you making the same mistakes as I did, look at the TV show if you want good refs

    you start so many threads only to make a couple of posts and move on to your next project, why not keep all your work in one thread like madkoifish and others do? you'll probably get a better following that way, if you want it all merged I can do this
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    IRML wrote: »
    the directional lights don't cast any light on the hull around them because that doesn't happen in real life, the bussards don't reflect anything because they are in a totally black scene, either way it still looks the same as before and it's probably a bit patronising to the auther to start a thread saying you are updating their work

    inadvisable, that'll just lead to you making the same mistakes as I did, look at the TV show if you want good refs

    you start so many threads only to make a couple of posts and move on to your next project, why not keep all your work in one thread like madkoifish and others do? you'll probably get a better following that way, if you want it all merged I can do this

    All lights cast light... even if they don't show it in the show... or it's barely visible... I've never seen a light that's on not cast light...

    Well, I think the reflections add a better effect to the bussards, since I can't seem to get them to look right, regardless.

    I always overhaul models I use, to get them to look how I want them, which I considered updating an appropriate term... it's not meant to say the model wasn't already good enough.

    Well, I'm a very organized person, I like order, I mean I was awarded best organized cadet in jrotc... but side issue, however, if you want to merge them or w/e, feel free.
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  • IRMLIRML253 Posts: 1,993Member
    Chris2005 wrote: »
    All lights cast light... even if they don't show it in the show... or it's barely visible... I've never seen a light that's on not cast light...
    have you heard the saying don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs?

    you should look up the inverse square law and apply it to your lights, at the moment you've just made them look really nooby when they were fine before
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    IRML wrote: »
    have you heard the saying don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs?

    you should look up the inverse square law and apply it to your lights, at the moment you've just made them look really nooby when they were fine before

    I've not heard that saying...

    The inverse-square law for light intensity states: The intensity of illumination is proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the light source.

    So, how does one apply that to lights in 3D software?
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  • MelakMelak332 Posts: 0Member
    In your light's options, select the "inverse square" option from the decay menu's "type" dropdown menu , and set a start radius (size of the light source) :)
  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    Melak wrote: »
    In your light's options, select the "inverse square" option from the decay menu's "type" dropdown menu , and set a start radius (size of the light source) :)

    Thanks.
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member

    I decided to do this one in 720x480, because I kept getting nagged to do one in the original resolution... so here we are.

    Changed my mind, I'm gonna do this in 720p...
    90193.png
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  • Chris2005Chris2005679 Posts: 3,097Member
    I added a slight reflection to the materials, to match the studio model better...
    90267.jpg90268.jpg90269.jpg90270.jpg
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  • Randy TjangRandy Tjang0 Posts: 0Member
    Looks good except for the bussard collectors.
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