And we has windows and interiors. Made the front ones to match the blueprints so large fish tanks. Dumped a blue mat on the wall to represent it for now.
Guess the mass wall of windows next on the outer phaser strip rooms.
A lot of people ridiculed the cetacean ops idea. But I always thought that it made kind of sense to have a water filled area on a deep space explorer ship. Chances are good that if you find new alien life, that it probably lives in the water. So having an area in which you can beam up and study aquatic lifeforms has a lot of benefits. Also if you encounter sentient Aquatic beings like the Aquarians from Enterprise you can invite them on the ship and then the windows make a lot of sense too.
whitefire and the sternbach ones are what I have been using. Whitefire are the first to be made then the sternbach I think were finished on top of them. All I suspect strongly are based off the building blueprints seen in the construction of the ship props.
Personally I found the whitefire ones lacking and off in a few places. All the major things are nearly spot on though between the two just distortions in the scans. Both suffer this.
tried to remove distortions etc. Whitefire I think has better windows (location not shape) But most of all the errors on blues are on both sets. Also whitefire has stuff in place that I have not been able to verify or have not gotten to verifying. Such as windows in places I do not think there ever were any.
The Whitefire guy sorta got screwed out of things due to publisher issues so I would lean towards his but atm all I am caring about is canon accuracy.
As for water I dunno I was always a bit meh about water in a moving object. Loose inertial dampers and that's some massive tonnage shifting about. If you have had to move a semi filled fish tank you will know how awkward it is to move around with it. It is sorta canon thoug that something like it existed. A tie in from the films and a hint at them being part of navigation. Anime has done thins a few times in about the same time.
As for beaming things up I would keep those in isolated labs even sentients. No need to contaminate your environs set up for sea mammals. This is another point of contention is how to manage a semi aquatic environment as they still need air to breath. So far the blues make it look like a space not set up for multi environmental beings. Heck they just look like huge water tanks with no provision for anything even air. Sea creatures even air breathing ones need a particular balance of salts and minerals dissolved in the water as well as levels of gasses. I am guessing these are some sort of set of pools some shallow some deep.
All the hull rim windows and framework were still intact so I would assume the larger expanse of soild hull down there might have held up better. But sloshing water again and the need fo a air space. . . heh. BUT you could argue the prop had no underside so . . lol
Truthfully I would expect they would have launched in pods prior to it. or at least were directed to enter the escape pods. There are some listed in the blues but there really is not anything exterior for these units. Unless they launched out of the fan bays or out of another lifeboat hatch like having lifeboats stacked up and all shoot out of one hole.
Windows spun, thankfully they are mirrored on the hull. So I do not have to deal with the lateral flip bs max does with splines. Real issue is how the blues twist the windows to align to the grids. It looks odd on the blues but I have to verify this on the actual model. Reality I think if you aligned these windows like that the interior jamb would be all squirrely.
Erm I see a few need to be redone to space them away from grids etc. I have spun these to have a fixed pairing so close windows are a exact distance from each other. Colors dictate the spin sets.
Ok, here we go shoulda waited and rendered these out. Full compliment and a full ship render. I think those center line-ish groups need adjustment as clearly there is not a HUGE gap between them like the blues dictate.
These windows are also a issue as I cannot verify everything on the physical model.
Here are some adjustments to them in the full ship render. I am tempted to keep my aft window arrangement how they spun vs realigning them to flow with the grids. I can see in some photos they do align to the grids more at the detriment to them being "inline" with the hulls plane. EG they are arranged to make for some janky interior spaces to justify the exterior flow.
now to eat, might not get to the realignment of everything then matching with the colored up windows. But I might just cut with these ones I am pushing around.
Any careful eyeballing will note the windows do not match. So I am now stuck having to source all the windows by panel. And again large areas lack photos that denote windows and the grids clearly. Oh boy.
Ok only 2 real working images where I can sorta guess where grids are. Almost all the close ups are parts of a panels worth of the windows or just those 3 sets of forward panels. Sadly no grids means no point of reference. I am even seeing issues in the lifeboats. Pacing that is there but not there. However lifeboats can be subjective as they are decals in the post generations and not the same size etc as the originals. Heck in many pics you can see the bumps from where the originals were. Also generations lifeboats hatches are tapered and not square (corners not overall shape). Anyhow broken the hull up as best as I can for ref.
dunno what the hell I will do for the rear side windows.
Render for reference for me to get more grids in on the photos.
Seeing so much off I am wary of what else is going to be such drudgery work. YUCK
Anyhow red windows are ones I moved about. All of this does mean needing to respin all this crap so they are in proper alignment. I am attempting to keep them aligned but having to move them in groups is is a lot of eyeballing and I know where that leads over time. . . . . .
I do not envy you this work. I would have long ago set this aside or just said F--k it and did my own thing that was approximate. Hell I don't think I'd have even modeled the grid.
Yeah it is part of why I usually do my own thing. You can fudge windows to avoid thing that would drive you nuts like angled edges etc.
There is some what a trend in the windows. There is a group of 2 and 1 then singles. so ( || | and | || ) as sets. but there are a random pair that come around too. I am sure there might be a larger spacing pattern too but it is hard to pick out.
I even looked at the ETRL sheets posted earlier they look to match better but the grids do not align to the sets, least on the 3 panels I checked. SO meh. Stuck squinting at pixels and guessing really.
Ok as I suspected the last 2 panels worth are the trouble makers. Angles are too oblique to define paired windows. I should be able to guesstimate with the backside view that is all blurry.
well found these 2 shots. Have to guess where grids are.
so yeah another day behind cause of this. Had hoped to cut and do the interiors for these windows today.
Windows aligned and recut some of the grids. So one I respin new windows to the new positions I should be ready to start cutting them in and doing all the repetitive task of putting jambs in and rooms. 262 times. . . .
I had thought this area would be better working for the standard inverted room layout but NOPE. It is worse than any of the rooms so far. The last set of cutout rooms were the only ones close to being a inverted interior set set up. Issue with these is deck 12. (lowest deck here) as I have very little room to work with. If I raise the ceilings higher than 9ft it overlaps but I might be able to get a second floor in or a bit more work space if I step the height increase back some. So that deck 11 rooms have to be entered from deck 10. It is do able due to the saucer layout. Dunno though it MIGHT interfere with the upper saucer windows though. It will not mess with rim rooms though as those are a good on 30m away. Well 2 sets of lifeboats and at least 3 hallways away. heh. I guess there just is no real way around these screwy windows short of doing stupid things with grav plating etc. Nothing that canon supports nor make usable sense for the wasted power annoying transitions etc.
Ok an example that allows for a 12ft wide hallway. This should allow a standard semi narrow hall with stowage in the halls like seen in the 2 abreast ones in the D where all those ensigns get bumped into the bulkheads by the officers. 18~20ft tall spaces so enough for 2 levels. Deck 12 is a bit meh as that overhang is so large. Upper ones could allow a area of floor between the windows to regain space. Blueprint rooms tend to have beds against this area, wasting all that space above the windows. If I obliterate the deck 11 entrance to the rooms in deck 11 I could get more space above the windows on deck 12. . . . . Halls inward could split over the bathrooms if using the plans room layout.
Anyhow gonna leave it at this for now. Might have better ideas later on. Do not look forward to doing this some 87 more times. As on avg it is one room per 3 windows. I would do cloning and aligning but meh. Things will likely oblique or not line up later on not to mention getting a clean join to the window jambs. not sure how vray would deal with leaky rooms. Max hated it and I am guessing other emissive particle renders will too.
I'm guessing this is partly why we never saw rooms on the underside other than 10 forward, but I'm betting you're going to run into this a bit on the upper saucer rooms too
Quick, dirty and out of scale.
But like that it could work and you have lot of room for cool stuff like balconies. On the wider spaces between windows there could even be stairs/ramps form one deck to another.
deck by deck blues are what I am basing most stuff that is no in show off of. Not much of it works. overlay the things and it gets even messier. The deck by deck as it is laid out is what I first posted. 9ft tall rooms with maybe 8" between.
As for the cutaway at that rez and from the looks of it it is a reprinted version of the poster so it is full of moire dots and individual rooms are just a few blots of color. Rooms we are looking at are where that red27? is. Hell I cannot even read the call outs. I dunno if the image I have is exactly the same I think the one I have has no writing on it but I plan to use it for larger elements further down the road.
Only real issue I have pushing rooms up too much is rooms in deck 10 and 11 being occluded. Around this area they have huge holodeck spaces. That second is close to what I was th8inking of but it is the dead space that annoys me. As each room has a space between the 3 sets of windows I figured they could have a eased in space above the glass. Also thinking the lower room below deck "12" could have glass in to partake of that set of windows too. Not that there is much to look at. No light and rarely anything but black lol.
I mean I could just say screw it and go with the sternbach plans and just live with it.
yeah I think it is a case of the modular approach of the official blues. mixed with it being done after the ship build and then back then a lack of cgi to visualize things. Not everyone is as good at spacial layout.
Looking at things right now, goal is a solution that is minimal work as I have to repeat it across the hull.
One thing about the original 6-foot model that nobody ever really reproduces in CG, is the LIT forward window pattern, as seen in the photo below. The center windows are flanked by two sets of lit windows that branch out in mirrored directions, but are the exact same “rooms” that are lit. The 4-foot model didn’t have this, nor did the GEN version.
Well the 4 foot model most of the windows were not even in the same locations. I have not done any studies on lit and unlit across the series. All I know at this point is the ship has massively huge cfls inside and liked to electrocute people. I think generations replaced a large part of that as things burned out. In the show you can see where the larger model lost some of the marker lights. Either it was burned out or someone just gave up from being zapped by the ship.
I do find it being something hand made that there is so much mirrored elements on her. Maybe it was done so they could invert the image to get the ship flying the other way without reshooting it and having it be obvious to "fans" EG people who will videotape it and pause the damned ship and count the lit windows! lol
As I was rewatching the early seasons I should have been screen capping for it. Likely I will be mapping multiple lit and unlit rooms. I think in the end what I will do is map on and off maps to the lum objects in the rooms vs the old tint the glass way of doing it. Another issue is early eps there were multiple different tones in the windows too. Blues to warm white. I dunno if that was done with gels or voltages or just multiple passes in comp.
My main use of this model wont matter though as not many rooms will be lit or in a shape to be lit. >_> though I guess it all depends how coRvid deals with the world by then.
Ok while some of the ideas here and ones I did really looked cool I copped out I think mostly to the need to replicate these across the ship. While the beams are not done yet it give an idea of how I think I can make use of that "dead" space. Upper room has a board across the beam work. I figure this could be a enclosed room dividing the spaces into 3 separate spaces. I would arrange it as bedroom bathroom and living space. If you look enough you can already see how the rooms are slightly off. And this is the issue I think I will have as I move across the window sets. I doubt I will go much further than this into the rooms as you will likely never see anything more than just the walls and some beams here and there. Beams are mostly for visual as they would be good burger mincers when the ship looses inertial dampeners.
Reason for the above. . . . all you see is ceiling and a few beams and lights.
The original designer and builders didn't think it through. Here we are... trying to think it through.
I read, that they designed the Orville with that in mind. All the interiors shown, match the exterior shots. So you Never have anything, that shouldn’t fit or be somewhere else. It‘s a nice detail almost no one would ever notice 😁
The original designer and builders didn't think it through. Here we are... trying to think it through.
I read, that they designed the Orville with that in mind. All the interiors shown, match the exterior shots. So you Never have anything, that shouldn’t fit or be somewhere else. It‘s a nice detail almost no one would ever notice 😁
That gives them even more nerd cred than I was already giving them. Very nice.
Posts
Wow, thanks for the effort to write a tutorial, much appreciated.
Guess the mass wall of windows next on the outer phaser strip rooms.
I am pretty sure you already know that, but there is another set of interior blueprints floating around. That are allegedly more endorsed by Probert than the Sternbach ones. https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/ed-whitefire-enterprise-ncc-1701d.php
I never really new what to make of them. But maybe they can help you along the way, somehow.
Edit: Just realising, with the cetacean ops being so low in the hull, the dolphins must have had a really bad day when the E-D hit Veridian 3.
Personally I found the whitefire ones lacking and off in a few places. All the major things are nearly spot on though between the two just distortions in the scans. Both suffer this.
tried to remove distortions etc. Whitefire I think has better windows (location not shape) But most of all the errors on blues are on both sets. Also whitefire has stuff in place that I have not been able to verify or have not gotten to verifying. Such as windows in places I do not think there ever were any.
The Whitefire guy sorta got screwed out of things due to publisher issues so I would lean towards his but atm all I am caring about is canon accuracy.
As for water I dunno I was always a bit meh about water in a moving object. Loose inertial dampers and that's some massive tonnage shifting about. If you have had to move a semi filled fish tank you will know how awkward it is to move around with it. It is sorta canon thoug that something like it existed. A tie in from the films and a hint at them being part of navigation. Anime has done thins a few times in about the same time.
As for beaming things up I would keep those in isolated labs even sentients. No need to contaminate your environs set up for sea mammals. This is another point of contention is how to manage a semi aquatic environment as they still need air to breath. So far the blues make it look like a space not set up for multi environmental beings. Heck they just look like huge water tanks with no provision for anything even air. Sea creatures even air breathing ones need a particular balance of salts and minerals dissolved in the water as well as levels of gasses. I am guessing these are some sort of set of pools some shallow some deep.
All the hull rim windows and framework were still intact so I would assume the larger expanse of soild hull down there might have held up better. But sloshing water again and the need fo a air space. . . heh. BUT you could argue the prop had no underside so . . lol
Truthfully I would expect they would have launched in pods prior to it. or at least were directed to enter the escape pods. There are some listed in the blues but there really is not anything exterior for these units. Unless they launched out of the fan bays or out of another lifeboat hatch like having lifeboats stacked up and all shoot out of one hole.
Erm I see a few need to be redone to space them away from grids etc. I have spun these to have a fixed pairing so close windows are a exact distance from each other. Colors dictate the spin sets.
These windows are also a issue as I cannot verify everything on the physical model.
Here are some adjustments to them in the full ship render. I am tempted to keep my aft window arrangement how they spun vs realigning them to flow with the grids. I can see in some photos they do align to the grids more at the detriment to them being "inline" with the hulls plane. EG they are arranged to make for some janky interior spaces to justify the exterior flow.
now to eat, might not get to the realignment of everything then matching with the colored up windows. But I might just cut with these ones I am pushing around.
Any careful eyeballing will note the windows do not match. So I am now stuck having to source all the windows by panel. And again large areas lack photos that denote windows and the grids clearly. Oh boy.
So yeah.
dunno what the hell I will do for the rear side windows.
Render for reference for me to get more grids in on the photos.
Seeing so much off I am wary of what else is going to be such drudgery work. YUCK
Anyhow red windows are ones I moved about. All of this does mean needing to respin all this crap so they are in proper alignment. I am attempting to keep them aligned but having to move them in groups is is a lot of eyeballing and I know where that leads over time. . . . . .
Hats off to you. Good luck!
There is some what a trend in the windows. There is a group of 2 and 1 then singles. so ( || | and | || ) as sets. but there are a random pair that come around too. I am sure there might be a larger spacing pattern too but it is hard to pick out.
I even looked at the ETRL sheets posted earlier they look to match better but the grids do not align to the sets, least on the 3 panels I checked. SO meh. Stuck squinting at pixels and guessing really.
again red = adjusted
well found these 2 shots. Have to guess where grids are.
so yeah another day behind cause of this. Had hoped to cut and do the interiors for these windows today.
Anyhow gonna leave it at this for now. Might have better ideas later on. Do not look forward to doing this some 87 more times. As on avg it is one room per 3 windows. I would do cloning and aligning but meh. Things will likely oblique or not line up later on not to mention getting a clean join to the window jambs. not sure how vray would deal with leaky rooms. Max hated it and I am guessing other emissive particle renders will too.
Quick, dirty and out of scale.
But like that it could work and you have lot of room for cool stuff like balconies. On the wider spaces between windows there could even be stairs/ramps form one deck to another.
Edit:
Just as thought food.
But the cut-out poster bleow might be some help?
Also what about the Rick Sternbach, Deck by Deck blueprints?
That could also be helpful.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/c2/c5/1cc2c58f437e800640a38983e808aa13.jpg
I really really like this one! As a former lawyer I have some safety concerns but it looks cool 😎
As for the cutaway at that rez and from the looks of it it is a reprinted version of the poster so it is full of moire dots and individual rooms are just a few blots of color. Rooms we are looking at are where that red27? is. Hell I cannot even read the call outs. I dunno if the image I have is exactly the same I think the one I have has no writing on it but I plan to use it for larger elements further down the road.
Only real issue I have pushing rooms up too much is rooms in deck 10 and 11 being occluded. Around this area they have huge holodeck spaces. That second is close to what I was th8inking of but it is the dead space that annoys me. As each room has a space between the 3 sets of windows I figured they could have a eased in space above the glass. Also thinking the lower room below deck "12" could have glass in to partake of that set of windows too. Not that there is much to look at. No light and rarely anything but black lol.
I mean I could just say screw it and go with the sternbach plans and just live with it.
Looking at things right now, goal is a solution that is minimal work as I have to repeat it across the hull.
I do find it being something hand made that there is so much mirrored elements on her. Maybe it was done so they could invert the image to get the ship flying the other way without reshooting it and having it be obvious to "fans" EG people who will videotape it and pause the damned ship and count the lit windows! lol
As I was rewatching the early seasons I should have been screen capping for it. Likely I will be mapping multiple lit and unlit rooms. I think in the end what I will do is map on and off maps to the lum objects in the rooms vs the old tint the glass way of doing it. Another issue is early eps there were multiple different tones in the windows too. Blues to warm white. I dunno if that was done with gels or voltages or just multiple passes in comp.
My main use of this model wont matter though as not many rooms will be lit or in a shape to be lit. >_> though I guess it all depends how coRvid deals with the world by then.
Reason for the above. . . . all you see is ceiling and a few beams and lights.
I read, that they designed the Orville with that in mind. All the interiors shown, match the exterior shots. So you Never have anything, that shouldn’t fit or be somewhere else. It‘s a nice detail almost no one would ever notice 😁
That gives them even more nerd cred than I was already giving them. Very nice.