3DU.S.S. Katana, Katana Class Starship

Katana

*Insert phoenix metaphore*
Apologies to McC for starting another katana class thread.

I've recently cracked open my very old version of MAX and started fiddling again, and of course eventually I couldn't resist tinkering with my baby. The base hull is a splinecage... "But Katana." You say, "Thats so ten years ago!" Well yes, but it's been at least that long since I did any 3D stuff so I'm looking for some helpful advice as I run headlong into whatever roadblocks pop up.

Back in my SFA days I'll be the first to admit my stuff sucked, but I'm learning, and SFM is chocked full of inspiration! I would like to improve into some of the more advanced modeling techniques I see people using here, but currently my internet access is very limited so I read whatever tuts I stumble across that look helpful. (Madkoifish's were helpful, thanks!)

Like I said, the base hull mesh is formed from a splinecage. I was obsessed at the time with making the basic hull-shape a one-piece contiguous mesh and while the cage got me there it is a bit cumbersome making the surface pretty poly heavy in places, and ending up with some... less than ideal geometry. I've been cleaning it up as I go, box modeling some of the areas I wasn't happy with (the fantail in particular, I swear I have never welded so many verts or hand built so many faces before lol)

I merged in some of the details from my last attempt at building this model and they still fit pretty well so here is where I'm at so far.

http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/newhull3.png

I'm currently trying to add surface-following details (like the phaser strips) by using the actual geometry of the mesh and beveling/extruding but the results have been less than clean. I haven't tried booleaning or shapemerging the basic shape into the complex curves of the hull yet, but I can imagine it will be messy as well. What would be a better way to add high-detail contour-following details?

Thanks.

Vortex5972

An interesting blend of the Intrepid and Nova. Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Katana

Vortex5972 wrote: »

An interesting blend of the Intrepid and Nova. Looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Thanks Vortex, and while not untrue the design predates the Nova Class by a couple of years. I remember Mike Wright ribbing me when the previews of the Voyager episode with the Equinox came out that Paramount "borrowed" my design

The original MSPaint drawing was done in 1996.

evil_genius_180

It's not like we can only have one thread dedicated to a single class. I can remember a time when there were about a dozen Battlestar threads going on. Plus, there have been multiple Constitution-class and Constellation-class threads. I'm sure there's plenty of room for a couple of Katana-class threads.

I like your design. Plus, your mesh is looking fantastic so far. Of course, the design for the Nova really comes from an early design for the Defiant, but that's an amusing anecdote about what Mike Wright said. It's really interesting how close your design and Rick Sternbach's design are.

Katana

Funny you mentioned it, I actually ran across the Defiant pathfinder design again when I pulled out my DS9 Tech Manual tonight.

My Katana class isn't terribly creative it's basically Voyager but smaller with different nacelles, and like most trek ships is pretty derivative . But for me it's that ship... the one you wanted to do ever since you first saw people doing amazing CGI stuff online.

Really wishing (and not for the first time) that I had more flat surfaces to work with lol.

Quick update...


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/phasers.png

Took a lot of trial and error but I finally got an acceptable set of phaser strips. I probably took the long way (or wrong way) around but this is what I did.

- Set hull to editable poly.
- Found an edge on the mesh that I liked for the location of the phaser.
- Cloned the faces surrounding the edge I wanted then chamfered the selected edge until it was the proper width for the phaser bank then selected the new edges created by the chamfer to close it up and used "create shape from selection" and chose curved.
- adjusted the verts on the created spline to perfect the end curves of the phasers, carefully ensuring in both top and side viewports the the spline still conformed to the original faces.
- converted the spline to an editable poly and hand built the faces then it was a matter of extrude and bevel.

Probably is an easier way, if I knew the tools better.

evil_genius_180

It looks good.

As far as Starfleet designs go, most wind up looking derivative of something. Yes, it resembles Voyager a lot, but it's not like it's a copy of Voyager. Besides, if you accept all of the Constitution and Galaxy class based designs out there, it's only reasonable that Starfleet may have built some more ships similar to Voyager.

McC

Katana wrote: »

Apologies to McC for starting another katana class thread.

Haha, no apologies necessary! I didn't pick the name for Coro's class; your Katana design will always be the Katana class to me.

And it's looking splendorous so far!

Vortex5972

I really like that side view. It looks more balanced and solid than the Intrepid. Only things I'm not a fan off are the pylons and nacelles, but that's just personal taste. I like what you've done for the impulse engines.

Katana

@McC - Thanks, as is the Coro! Good to know Jester is still kicking around.

@ Vortex - Actually, the pylons and nacelles are subject to change and I haven't really worked out where I'm going with them yet. The nacelles will most likely change quite a bit from the drawing and the original 3D model. I have some ideas for the pylons but they will be somewhat similar.

If you have a suggestion I am open to them.

The idea for the impulse engines was for ease of replacement, but that makes them a nice juicy target so *shrugs* I like the way it looks so "rule of cool" applies. (Spent the last hour remaking the impulse housing cause I can make it better now, and technically it's better, and cleaner, but damn if it doesn't look exactly the same lol)

evil_genius_180

I think the impulse engines should stay exactly how they are. The rule of cool definitely applies. They're way better than the impulse engines on Voyager. On Voyager, the impulse engines are on the pylons, so a couple shots that took off both pylons could kill the ship's warp and impulse capabilities.

I like the nacelles, but I'm only lukewarm about the pylons. I think they need to be longer at the base, where they connect to the ship.

Starship

Katana old bean, itA’s a loooooooooooooong time!!
How you doing?

I always loved the katana class, and the new version is promising to be a beauty! :thumb:

IA’ll be following this thread closelly.

Katana

Thanks Starship, it has been a while!

Spent some time yesterday going backwards. The splinecage left me with a pretty ugly mess near the undercut for the secondary hull so I ditched it and started again. The new mesh is still a little poly heavy, but it should be easier to work with.


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/shbeforeafter.png

Leaving me with this.


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/newhull2.png

McC

Nicely done!

Vortex5972

evil_genius_180 wrote: »

I'm only lukewarm about the pylons. I think they need to be longer at the base, where they connect to the ship.

This and maybe not have them lean back so far. I like the idea of the impulse engines being a module that can quickly be unplugged and replaced for repair/upgrade. It's something that I've been trying to incorporate on the ship that I've been working on.

evil_genius_180

Katana wrote: »

The new mesh is still a little poly heavy, but it should be easier to work with.

It's not really heavy, unless you're making a game or something. The new wireframe definitely looks cleaner, and the rendered image looks great.

Katana

After working to correct a lot of the errors in the secondary hull, I knew that the primary hull has a fatal design error.

Because of the the original shape of the concept, and my creating the splinecage from that drawing the gridlines that travel around the hull are not parallel on the horizontal plane. While I could make the mesh work in the end result from the side view any details placed on the hull like windows would seem to slope downward towards the nose of the ship rather than all be at the same "deck height"

I will be looking into working with the original splinecage to try to repair this problem, I decided to try and tweak what I already had. This left me with an interesting shape when I was pulling the lines parallel. A substantial "cut-out" was forming. I decided to play with the resulting deformed hull and try to work it into the design. I'm not sold on the idea so I thought I would see how it plays on the forums.

This is just concept for now... So interesting design choice or cheesy gimmick?


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/cut1.png

McC

It looks cool, for sure. Not sure what it is, though. Auxiliary Bussard collectors?

And good on you for keeping an eye on the deck layout when arranging the windows. So many fan (and canon, for that matter) designs just don't bother. *cough*Ambassador*cough*

Katana

Never got as far as figuring out why anyone would carve into the hull like that *lol*

It would give me a place to have the pulse phasers rather than add some kind of housing for them like in the drawing. *shrugs*

Bell'Orso

Well now, this is a ship I haven't seen in a long time.

And since you're redoing it, let me just say this: Please relocate the impulse engines! I always hate when they are so far off the center of mass. Maybe relocate them to the rear of the arrowhead, kinda like the Sovereign has. Or perhaps put a second one in the undercut to balance out the original.

Anyway, I'll be sure to follow this one closely.

ST-One

Katana wrote: »

This is just concept for now... So interesting design choice or cheesy gimick?


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/cut1.png

As McC said, this looks very cool, and visually interesting.
I'd keep, no matter what it is supposed to be.

Katana

Bell'Orso wrote: »

Please relocate the impulse engines! I always hate when they are so far off the center of mass.

I was actually thinking about this when I was doing the cutout around the impulse housing the other day. I'll admit, when I was doing the original drawing I didn't even think about center of mass.

It's a really big visual feature of the mesh, but I'll play around with other ideas and see if something pops for me.

evil_genius_180

I like the detail, no matter what it is. It adds a lot of visual interest.

Zhor2395

I think the intakes are kindy neat, though for some reason my brain keeps thinking in this case starfleet went retro and they feed into some sort of crazy air breather for cruising around in a atmosphere. One presumes the pod is intended to be the impulse engines?

Katana

It is a little retro I suppose, but I'm sold on it now, and yes the pod at the top of the spine is the impulse engine assembly.

Not a lot to see in this update, I've been doing a lot of work that ends up after hours looking exactly like it did before... More polys where needed fewer everywhere else, you know how it goes.

Funny thing after 18 years you get used to how something looks. That said I have been working on the nacelles and I always seem to keep leaning back to a similar shape as the concept. I tried a different set but they were a dismal failure. So for now I have ended up with these...


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/nacelle1.png


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/nacelle2.png

Thing is, working to scale I noticed that the model was quit a bit longer than the specs, not sure why exactly but, as a lark, I decided to move the nacelles forward to match the specs and the result is what I affectionatly call "Stubby"


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/stubby2.png


http://katana.neopangea.net/artwork/stubby1.png

Finally, complications have come up with my internet access and short of free public wifi I won't be online much to update for the near future. I do appreciate the feedback however, and I will check in when I can.

Thanks all.

evil_genius_180

I like the nacelles, kind of Ambassador meets Intrepid. Though, I think they look better farther back.

Vortex5972

I prefer them further forward. Maybe not quite as far as you have them, though. I tend to be a sucker for longer nacelles like the Excelsior and Sovereign, so you could maybe compromise by having the front near to where they are on the last two pictures, and the back where they are on the first two.

You could maybe make the back end slimmer than the front, if you wanted them to be slightly less uniform.

That scoop thing on the saucer fits the design well.

evil_genius_180

Vortex5972 wrote: »

I prefer them further forward. Maybe not quite as far as you have them, though.

It's interesting, because I was thinking not as far back as they were. So, it sounds like we're both really thinking somewhere in the middle.

Vortex5972

Sounds like a good place to start. With them being small, having them as far back as in the first two pictures seems to break the balance. I tend to dislike bussards being so close to the saucer as they appear on the second two images, though. Of course, it's hard to judge the distances properly in perspective shots.

How about maybe trying to reflect the scoops of the saucer in the nacelles as well, maybe as bussard scoops. Alternatively as vents facing aft on the pylons, when you get that far.

jay-mo

I'm really liking this design. I wouldn't worry about it looking like other designs. If you think about it, all these "original" designs should have similarities if they follow the principles of the ST universe. The overall shape of the hull is really great.

Zhor2395

most modern boats can trace their design lineage back to the first hollowed out log some cave dwelling knuckle dragged tossed in a pond lol

Lonewriter

I like the update, great job.