2DBaron Helmutt Lightholler

Coolhand

Some work so far on a painting of a new miniature I'm working on. - A sorta medieval-gigerish-techno-knight-type-thing, something that might fit in with existing types of fantasy wargaming minis. They perhaps live in a castle on the moon in Tycho crater, on a distant future moon, and have nothing whatsoever to do with anything else I've posted here. Mostly its another exercise in rendering light and shadow (its all 2d painted from scratch of course), and is taking aaaaaages, I must be the slowest rendering package available.:cool: I'm still working out the arms and legs to an extent so here's the head and shoulders which are the most complete so far

Edit - Updated thumbnail, changed the name

Edit - Changed Thumbnail, changed name again 21/11/13

Coolhand

I can see by the massive response that this project has really captured everyone's imagination*

well 5cr3w you all anyway...

Here's a pic of the whole thing, greatly reduced from the original resolution... still working out his arms and legs, I thought he was a bit tall (not going for average human proportions) so have reduced him to a demi-god like roughly 8 heads tall.

(and yes, Tovette, the background is similar to one you use, seems to work OK so far, hope you don't mind;))

*(nate taught me everything I know about painting, I guess that's why no one is replying;))

evil_genius_180

I just wanted to see the full armor before replying.

I really like it. I'm sure somebody will claim that it looks like this or that, but I'm not really versed on this genre, so it looks pretty original to me. I definitely like the skull theme. Are you also going to give him a helmet, shield and weaponry?

Coolhand

Phew, that was nearly embarassing;) Infact I don't mind comparisions being drawn (no pun intended) I've built and designed a lot of miniatures for various companies in the replicas and wargames industry and often miniatures are designed to fit in with pre-existing ranges or a an existing popular genre.

The particular style is called something like 'grim dark' (~? don't quote me on that), but perhaps making it a little more practical (his proportions are closer to real humans) and giving it more of a technological / bio-mechanical flavour so while there's a deliberate similarity with other things (theres a lot of stuff in vaguely this type of style by various companies) I'm not branding it as anything though as it is to me an original work.

It's not my usual thing I normally go for - something more practical and realistic, almost like you could build it today or see it on a modern battlefield, not particularly fancy or ornate as many of these fantasy items are very lavishly decorated (hence the skulls etc - I probably need more of that type of thing on there). So it's sort of to say, hey I can do this type of stuff too, almost as a demo to show a broader range of styles. I'm fairly pleased with how its turning out so far I think its my best painting yet, very time consuming of course. As for weapons, he had a shotgun previously, the pose is really more along the lines of a modelling guide as the whole thing started as a simple exercise so working a weapon into it wasn't totally considered from the off.

I think a medieval melee weapon would work better than a shotgun, he could maybe have a whip or something that can flow between both hands, which would suit the look of the character too I think, who's referenced slightly from one of the bad guys from 'The Road Warrior' There will be some head gear too that i can drop in from another layer on top of everything else but I don't like the design too much so far as it makes him look like a gorilla or something.

Armondikov

Well, the inevitable-comparisons-that-shall-not-be-named existing franchise-that-shall-also-remain-nameless are based on the idea of medieval knights in armour. But I think the detail and the general look of this one is really cool. It might just be the silver-colour, but the more plate-like appearance really sells the techno-knight look.

evil_genius_180

Coolhand wrote: »

I think a medieval melee weapon would work better than a shotgun, he could maybe have a whip or something that can flow between both hands, which would suit the look of the character too I think, who's referenced slightly from one of the bad guys from 'The Road Warrior' There will be some head gear too that i can drop in from another layer on top of everything else but I don't like the design too much so far as it makes him look like a gorilla or something.

Shotgun? With the style, I was definitely thinking of a cool melee weapon like a big ol' ax or mace or something like that. Of course, a whip could be cool too, especially if you put like some nasty looking barbs on it or something. :devil:

Coolhand

I just mean a close quarters futuristic weapon, Obviously styled to suit the rest of it, i'm not talking about a model 870;) basically just doesn't work well with the pose though. Yeah the whip would be totally brutal looking, not a basic indy style whip. When i started drawing a whip in, I'm not sure I liked it either! but the pose might suit him having a leashed, slathering cyborg warhound to his left (right of image).

Armondikov, if you look at it and squint, or just study the thumbnail you'll see i'm giving it a skeletal appearance with the contrast and lighting, so this shape should be more apparent at a small scale... you need bold shapes on these designs because they work better at a small scale... So i'm trying to keep interesting even as you zoom out. The shiny metal finish is a lot of fun to paint too!

Armondikov

Ah! I see it now! It's like one of those black suits with a skeleton drawn on it.

daibaka

The paint work is coming along great, but for my money his face looks a bit too... friendly!

Despite the scar and mohican hair cut, he looks like someone you wouldn't mind inviting round to tea with mother, rather than an 8 foot tall genetically engineered dealer of biomechanically armoured death!

His eyes look a bit odd too, but hey - its a WIP. I'm confident the finished article will be amazing as always.

Coolhand

Well friendly is really not what i'm trying to convey... i suppose if this were WW2, he'd be more akin to an SS officer than a stormtrooper... Or some sort of evil nobleman of medieval times. I think its all in the eyes really... I don't want him looking grotesquely aggressive, with the typical warcry/rage expression but something more subtle. whether painting or 3d, The head and face are always something I work on first, do something else, go back and keep on adjusting. I've really adjusted all the elements and repainted quite a bit to give him a bit more intensity.

Thinking of maybe giving him some cyber implants in the back of his head or something...

Not sure if I like the name of this thread, I thought it up literally seconds before posting it, not sure its sinister enough...

btw you might notice that the image is flipped - i often do this as it means the brain has to decode the image differently (or something) and causes a re-interpretation, throwing errors into sharp relief.

Armondikov

I have played the flipping-the-image game before! It's also helpful because unless you're ambidextrous, you can draw curves one way far smoother than the other way around. So a lot of comic artists draw all their characters facing one way, then flip it when it comes to compositing the final image.

(I once did one that needed flipped upside-down on occasion to check it. That was really weird.)

daibaka

Neat trick with the image flipping! I'll have to remember that one.

Coolhand

If i'm drawing a spaceship, i'd flip the thing upside down too, if its something like this, I think the brain has a harder time dealing with it so it doesn't seem to help.

If you use something like Painter, you can rotate a painting any angle you want and paint without losing detail - if you do this in photoshop, at least the well-old version i'm using here, you'll degrade the image with each rotation so flipping is the only option.

some curves are difficult to make smooth, so you just have to go over it and make it smooth later, so most of the work is through blending, like oil painting more than airbrushing or something.

Anyway, here he is with a more sneering growling expression, and quite an extensive rework (Again, lol) of his face and head overall. I'm not sure if i prefer it, i'm not sure what he's growling at, daibakas mum perhaps?;)

Armondikov

Been meaning to try Painter. It seems to have all the fun little tools to really paint digitally.

L2K

isnt the head a bit small for the shoulders ?

looks to me you could scale it up a bit

evil_genius_180

Yeah, I'm not sure if the facial expression is any better. Instead of looking happy, he now looks like he has gas.

However, the armor is freakin' awesome.

Coolhand

hmm, regarding the face at least, I think I basically just need to stop listening to all of you;) though honestly you could look at many of these snarling faces in such artwork and think the person illustrated is having toilet troubles. As for why his head is intentionally proportionally small, read the thread.

And painter, shmainter! You're no more or less painting whichever you use... I used it briefly, I found the rotational gimmick was fairly useless as it wasn't fast enough to recalc the picture, It wasn't as interactive enough to make it really useful. While paintings made in them perhaps resemble an analogue painting I kinda thought who cares... I mean really If you're doing concept or production art I don't think it matters, a client or your FX super is not going to be sat there admiring the fine simulation of procedural canvas, also if you're painting large and scaling the image down to show online much of that effect will be lost... If i were doing very large fine art prints i'd probably want that but otherwise I'm perfectly happy with a digital painting looking like a digital painting.

daibaka

Coolhand wrote: »

i'm not sure what he's growling at, daibakas mum perhaps?;)

Heh, genetically engineered death-machine or not, that would be extremely dangerous to his health! She might only be 5 feet tall but my mum is a dab hand with the secateurs...

evil_genius_180

Coolhand wrote: »

hmm, regarding the face at least, I think I basically just need to stop listening to all of you;)

Yeah, that's probably a good idea.

You're certainly doing better at facial expressions than I ever could. And, who cares if he looks happy or growly? Maybe it's just his nature.

Armondikov

Coolhand wrote: »

And painter, shmainter! You're no more or less painting whichever you use... I used it briefly, I found the rotational gimmick was fairly useless as it wasn't fast enough to recalc the picture...

But when I get my 90-core computer! :devil:

Coolhand

Real men use Deluxe Paint 3, and a mechanical mouse... But who cares what you use really;) Well, anyway in other news, still plugging away at it.

Coolhand

So I was thinking about the whip idea and didn't really like it, maybe some sort of multi-section nunchucks or something... then thought of a thrown weapon, so the device has a gripping hand that allows dangerous weapons to be handled and thrown very long distances (or indeed might be a dangerous weapon in itself)... I actually have a different idea for this but I'm keeping it under wraps for the moment.

evil_genius_180

That's a mean looking weapon. :devil:

Coolhand

close up on some of the detailing going on the gripper weapon... Might scuttle around with a life of its own even.

evil_genius_180

I love the detail on the "claws" that are holding the ball thing.

Coolhand

Thanks, takes ages to paint these things in but I think its worth it. :thumb:

evil_genius_180

Yeah, I'd imagine it does take a long time. But definitely worth it, it looks fantastic.

Coolhand

Worked on his hair some more, also had some advice to lighten up the contrast, which was probably overcooked a bit, but i'm not sure if the person really understood that i really need it with a lot of contrast, but more opinions are always good...

evil_genius_180

The hair looks good. Personally, I like contrast, but I too have been urged to do "less contrasty" (and, really, less realistic) work over the years. (sighs)

Coolhand

Hmm, well assuming we're talking spaceships, I think you can be very effective with a single key light, its the only realistic way to simulate a ship in deep space. (Sir Ridley Scott had this same argument on Alien, with the lighting cameraman insisting on filling, but lighting guy won in the end) But, you must have that light simulated in a more complex way than we'd usually use a light to light a spaceship... So you want to make sure you're using something that will bounce light from one surface to another, so bits of the ship will light other bits of the ship. However thats not going to go over well with people who are used to looking at space images which are unnaturally lit... People are just used to seeing things in a certain way.

I get over this by always placing a ship in orbit of a planet (even if you can't see the planet) or in a dust cloud or comet tail etc. then you can have the cake and eat it.. because they will all work to add extra lighting to the scene.

Well, anyway, back to the suit, i've been very concious of contrast and it is deliberately high contrast, also some bits of the suit just aren't right but I thought some of it was looking pretty good.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=31&t=1075903

this is where, really reaching out for some critique from experienced painters (which to be fair, and with perhaps one or two exceptions, we have an utter dearth of here) I had that advice. Perhaps I should have mentioned that its a studio lighting setup, kinda... just one that I thought would light the metal suit up interestingly, with contrast lol. So there's basically a light from over each shoulder and a key from the front (left or right depending on how its flipped of course) And I think i've kept that pretty consistent... But that this guy couldn't figure that out, bothers me.

So after posting a less contrasty version, which he seemed to disregard, I think his critique sorta went from contrast overall to perhaps he's saying there's too much highlight, but you have to have fairly broad highlights for the material and lighting, and given the suit and the position of the lights they're all over the shop... being a little confused by the critique which is the only critique i've had from someone who can paint, i'll have to plod along following my own instincts. But then i've only been making and studying scifi artwork, lighting, materials, etc, for 10 years, what the hell should I know;)

Coolhand

Ok here is a bit more. repainted the ribs with a finer highlight, numerous other changes and repaints and so on, biggest change is probably the wing armour, if anyone is paying attention:p