- I am still not a fan of Prentice being the 'joker' in this. So far in the entire movie we saw prentice make a difference exactly once, and that was in orbit around new romulus. The rest was all Reyf. And even then, the crew would follow predictable patterns, which can be anticipated by Garr. They had to go to new romulus, and they had to talk to that proconsul. The fact that the Fitz still isn't destroyed is Reyfs tricks. I find it far more believable that carefull planning by Reyf and Section 31 prevented the Fitz's destruction than blind stumbling by Prentice. The result of the story at this place/time should be 2 carefull layed out plans cancelling each other out, only E-Garr's is a bit better/deeper, and not over yet.
- Why dont you let Reyf be more defeated than he appears to be in your script. His plan failed, he has no idea what to do, and the federation will die because of his failure. One or 2 confrontations ago, you let Prentice figure out that 'he was affraid'. You could tie that fear into the fear of failure, or Reyfs sense that the mission was going south, and he feard the outcome. Now that it has failed, and he is out of ideas with only the end to come, shouldnt he feel more guilty and defeaten? I made that remark in my script: 'Garr managed to beat you and taunt you at the same time', something that should shatter the confidence of any person especially when that person loses with such high stakes.
Add to that the comming mutiny, and Reyf is about to be beaten at really every front he has/had. It should show in the scene. Feel free to make Reyf more desperate, or to let Prentice comment on the fact that he is profoundly defeated.
- The discussion of section 31 should come after a clear point of Reyf relenting. Something audible like 'ok then', or something that clearly marks his 'breaking point'. (like in my suggestion: "i cannot persuade you" 'Not this time', "OK then"
- If DS9 is taken as a refference, Section 31's discussion does not warrent such high level of paranoia and locking doors and such. Just discuss it in the room you are in. Keep the line of 'this conversation never happened'.
- I would still summize a better plan/reason for Reyf to have kept his mouth shut.
I dont mind where it takes place. This scene is one of the 'corner stones' of your story. Your personalities, their reactions, are much more important, and the reasons should be solid and without question.
After some rewrites inspired by Thy King's feedback...I honestly think this time it comes out much better. I've dropped all the explanations and instead focused on the debate between Prentice and Reyf, and I think it works much better. This makes it easier to explain things in the next scene, since the entire crew will be there, and we only have to say things once.
I'm still not completely satisfied with the way this came out, but I think this is a lot closer to where it needs to be. (And the truly nice thing about it is, this way we can do it just about anywhere--moving it to a borrowed office or something becomes much easier, while leaving the observation lounge for the next scene.)
Speaking of which:
I had originally planned for Scene 35 to take place in sickbay, with Ronston and Falwell going over the records of the New Romulus encounter, and discovering a hidden datastream buried in the transmission. Even though they only received part of it, they realize that it was the coordinates of Drakus' hidden base, code-named Rimward Station. That would've clearly identified the proconsul as the operative Reyf alluded to, but after "Inter Erma Enim Silent Leges," that seems to be re-hashing something that's already been done.
Instead, now I'm considering what amounts to a hand wave--cutting between them, Kal, and Hargrove, as Prentice summons them all to the observation lounge immediately.
i think that does it, i like the script and playing it around in my head. I may have some more suggestions when im less tired, but hell, i've been waiting for this 8 or 9 scenes ago!
Quick feedback (its bedtime here): Your last script is a huge improvement. I like it a lot better now.
Just quickly a few points for further up the scene:
- taking again DS9 as a reference: they should not know anything about section31, it hides to well. Even Prentice should not know (Neither did Sisko) There should be no rumours, because those would be investigated by enemy inteligences, and now nobody knows section 31 exists, which is its greatest strength.
I tried comming up with a few reasons for Reyf to keep his mouth shut:
- He is ashamed of something (dont know what), and this plan was his way of making it up/fixing whatever he is ashamed off
- There is a higher very shocking truth about the scenario of this movie (romulus' sun is not a rogue action, for instance), but even then that might be a shaky for operation details, like who Drakus is.
- He is ordered too (but i dont like this option)
- He actually agrees/sympathises with what section 31 does, and keeps his mouth shut to protect their work and the federation as a whole
- He is a section 31 operative, or directs a lot of their missions
This was what i could come up with. I will see if i can make any more coments about the script when i have a bit more time available.
First, i think it is a good idea to change the tone of the scene. You tend to make these confrontations into shouting matches, and i think for this one, you should not do that.
In my oppinion there are 2 types of anger: the shouting kind, and the 'calm' kind. The shouting kind is not as intimidating, and usually ends up in a pointless back and forth, or just one ignoring the other (can also end into a physical fight). The 'calm' kind is anger where no screaming is needed, but to compensate that, a lot of tension is given to the words, and a lot of emphasis to key words in the sentences (more than in your script now; example: instead of [shouting] 'i'm not finished!' it is more pronounced as [calm anger] 'I'm. Not. Finished.'). This type of anger is the most intimidating and threatning, but also the most honoust type i know of. I think it would fit nicely for this scene.
If you have to shout, use it only on key phrases like: 'i cant'. I think calm and threatening would add to the atmosphere of the scene.
“When people are getting closer to their death, they just don’t care as much about rules and laws, and…conventional morality,” he said, leaning forward again.
I would scrap this line, it breaks the flow of the conversation.
He looked at Reyf. “Can you say the same, admiral?”
I would scrap this line too, there is no indication for Prentice to surmize that Reyf has done anything wrong enough to warrant a court martial.
Reyf exhaled, looked down, then turned back to Prentice. “Our best chance to neutralize Garr was at his base of operations,” he said. “We don’t know where it is—only its name: Rimward Station. He’s been coordinating everything from there, including the search for us.”
Prentice should make a short comment about telling the name of the station now, instead of before the mission or during when it could make a difference. something like (sarcastic) 'thank you for telling me, only too late.' or more neutral: 'i could have used that info' or something to rub it in that the admiral is too late with this bit of info. Just 1 line will do, you dont need to let Reyf react.
“All the more reason to tell me what you know,” Prentice insisted. “There could still be a solution in all this, we just have to find it! We can keep classified information limited to the senior staff, we’ll take every security precaution.” His voice became softer. “Just help me find a way to stop this. While we still can.”
As a final 'Reyf turner' comment, this is way to soft. I think you should kick in the door fully, one more time.
I have not come up with a worthy alternative, unfortunately.
My idea was something with: Reyf having no ideas anymore, perhaps Prentice saying that Reyf has been a stubborn fool, and/or commenting that this pride thing has to stop, and that his fight with Garr isn't his alone.
New draft. I like this one enough to actually produce it, but I'll hold off pending feedback while I build the office set (I've decided to do it in a Galaxy-class version of the Voyager XO's office).
Also, some new music tests for Scene 32 just went up. I'm leaning heavily towards simply re-using "Cosmic Castaway" (sorry guys, but I just don't think "Suicide Mission" has enough presence for that scene). Have a look at the newer ones and see what you think (all of them are from "Two Steps from Hell"):
It's just an early A/V test and so the shots are incomplete at best, but it's something to start from at least! Where does the full scene fall in the storyline? I'll tell you, but only if The Price is Right!
i think Reyf should be more resigned than defeated. He knows theres still something left for him to do, and if that means going to sector 585 and helping Janeway command the fleet, so be it. He's got to have fire in him still, even if hes not quite sure where its going. something as trivial as the romulan remnant headed by his friend-turned arch-nemesis to destroy earth, the federation and himself with it isn't going to make Gaius Reyf defeated, nosiree
Also, some new music tests for Scene 32 just went up. I'm leaning heavily towards simply re-using "Cosmic Castaway" (sorry guys, but I just don't think "Suicide Mission" has enough presence for that scene). Have a look at the newer ones and see what you think (all of them are from "Two Steps from Hell"):
This is the only one that somewhat fits. But i think Suicide mission is still better due to the better buildup of the music.
I tried most of not all of the others here, and dismissed them for not fitting properly. If Black Blade had a better middle piece, i would have taken that.
New draft. I like this one enough to actually produce it, [...]
Let me know what you guys think!
PrenticeAâs jaw set. AâOur civilization is facing the greatest threat weAâve ever known,Aâ he said slowly. AâIAâm not simply going to stand idly by and watch it happen.Aâ
THis line is (still) breaking the flow of the conversation. The only logical answer to the admirals question is the next line Prentice says: AâAs we speak, Lesley Kal is working to break the encryption on Starfleet records concerning yourself and Braiyon Garr.Aâ
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep the VOY-esque color scheme you see here or if I'm going to recolor it with First Contact-style colors like the rest of the ship. Gonna throw that one out to you guys: opinions?
People have said several times now that they missed the smaller interactions and storylines of the senior staff like we had in Specter, so those will be happy to know that coming up is a scene just like that after Prentice and Reyf have their confrontation. It's going to be a nice little scene between Hargrove and Mitchell as they work in a Jefferies tube (meaning another set I have to build, but it's worth it), contrasting her pessimistic viewpoint with Mitchell's indefatigable optimism. I don't expect it's going to be that long--probably two pages at most--before they get a comm call from Prentice summoning them into a briefing, where Reyf will tell the full story.
Starting production on Scene 34 tonight. Hope to have the full scene posted soon.
The Voyager sets tended to have a blue-silver color scheme to them, while the interiors of the Enterprise-E were usually more bronze. Look at the Voyager sickbay set as it was seen on that series, then look at the screencaps from its brief appearance in First Contact (before the lights went out) and you'll see what I mean.
I'm still trying to get a good, solid take of the VO's for this scene that I like, but it's proving far more problematic than I'd originally expected. As I had a sore throat tonight from trying so many times, I decided to spend a little time on Scene 34A, the chat between Hargrove and Mitchell in the Jefferies tube. All I can say is, this is going to be a scene that will hopefully be very moving for all involved. I'm almost tempted to produce this one before the actual Scene 34, but since that would cause more problems than it would solve, I'll just have to hold off.
Alright, finally managed to get the VO's right, and production on the scene is progressing nicely.
I'm already looking ahead to the next scene, which is due to take place inside the Jeffries tubes. The question here is simple: would you rather see a scene that takes place in the tube nexus (what was right inside the double doors in Main Engineering), or inside one of the horizontal tubes?
depends on whether someone is plugging stuff into the wall or just finding a quiet corner to have coffee and donuts
(i never really 'got' the idea of the maintenance access tubes; all you need is a tricorder, soldering iron and rubber bands and you can take control of the ship!)
@Dr-Timelord: two scenes yet before Reyf tells all First a short scene in the Jefferies tubes between Mitchell and Hargrove (bold-faced optimism meets gruff-faced pessimism, and they work out their differences), followed by a scene of investigation in sickbay between Falwell and Ronston.
THEN we get the full story
By the way, the scene in the Jefferies tubes will have to wait until I can build the set, which is proceeding nicely:
The hatch to the horizontal tubes just looks too large to me, but we'll see once the whole set is completed. I really and truly think I'm the first person to model this--I'm excited to see the results!
(Even though the scene is actually going to take place in one of the horizontal tubes, I've decided that a camera pass through the nexus and several vertical layers will be a good intro for this scene.)
the only tibit I have is when Prentice says ' And Garr ' sound like his is saying 'En Garde'
- The 'en Garde' bit: maybe changing it to 'and what about Garr' or something.
- I think the shouting part shout be replaced with a calmer version. The parts where you did not shout are much stronger and way more impressive than when you let Prentice go ape (1:55 - 2:01). I dont think that shouting has a place in this scene.
- The line "you can, and you will", i think the emphasis needs to be on 'will' and not on the second 'you'.
- The music does not really fit. I dont have much ambient music here, so i have no alternative, but here the music is more distracting than aiding the scene.
Posts
- Why dont you let Reyf be more defeated than he appears to be in your script. His plan failed, he has no idea what to do, and the federation will die because of his failure. One or 2 confrontations ago, you let Prentice figure out that 'he was affraid'. You could tie that fear into the fear of failure, or Reyfs sense that the mission was going south, and he feard the outcome. Now that it has failed, and he is out of ideas with only the end to come, shouldnt he feel more guilty and defeaten? I made that remark in my script: 'Garr managed to beat you and taunt you at the same time', something that should shatter the confidence of any person especially when that person loses with such high stakes.
Add to that the comming mutiny, and Reyf is about to be beaten at really every front he has/had. It should show in the scene. Feel free to make Reyf more desperate, or to let Prentice comment on the fact that he is profoundly defeated.
- The discussion of section 31 should come after a clear point of Reyf relenting. Something audible like 'ok then', or something that clearly marks his 'breaking point'. (like in my suggestion: "i cannot persuade you" 'Not this time', "OK then"
- If DS9 is taken as a refference, Section 31's discussion does not warrent such high level of paranoia and locking doors and such. Just discuss it in the room you are in. Keep the line of 'this conversation never happened'.
- I would still summize a better plan/reason for Reyf to have kept his mouth shut.
I dont mind where it takes place. This scene is one of the 'corner stones' of your story. Your personalities, their reactions, are much more important, and the reasons should be solid and without question.
I'm still not completely satisfied with the way this came out, but I think this is a lot closer to where it needs to be. (And the truly nice thing about it is, this way we can do it just about anywhere--moving it to a borrowed office or something becomes much easier, while leaving the observation lounge for the next scene.)
Speaking of which:
Instead, now I'm considering what amounts to a hand wave--cutting between them, Kal, and Hargrove, as Prentice summons them all to the observation lounge immediately.
Just quickly a few points for further up the scene:
- taking again DS9 as a reference: they should not know anything about section31, it hides to well. Even Prentice should not know (Neither did Sisko) There should be no rumours, because those would be investigated by enemy inteligences, and now nobody knows section 31 exists, which is its greatest strength.
I tried comming up with a few reasons for Reyf to keep his mouth shut:
- He is ashamed of something (dont know what), and this plan was his way of making it up/fixing whatever he is ashamed off
- There is a higher very shocking truth about the scenario of this movie (romulus' sun is not a rogue action, for instance), but even then that might be a shaky for operation details, like who Drakus is.
- He is ordered too (but i dont like this option)
- He actually agrees/sympathises with what section 31 does, and keeps his mouth shut to protect their work and the federation as a whole
- He is a section 31 operative, or directs a lot of their missions
This was what i could come up with. I will see if i can make any more coments about the script when i have a bit more time available.
In my oppinion there are 2 types of anger: the shouting kind, and the 'calm' kind. The shouting kind is not as intimidating, and usually ends up in a pointless back and forth, or just one ignoring the other (can also end into a physical fight). The 'calm' kind is anger where no screaming is needed, but to compensate that, a lot of tension is given to the words, and a lot of emphasis to key words in the sentences (more than in your script now; example: instead of [shouting] 'i'm not finished!' it is more pronounced as [calm anger] 'I'm. Not. Finished.'). This type of anger is the most intimidating and threatning, but also the most honoust type i know of. I think it would fit nicely for this scene.
If you have to shout, use it only on key phrases like: 'i cant'. I think calm and threatening would add to the atmosphere of the scene.
I would scrap this line, it breaks the flow of the conversation. I would scrap this line too, there is no indication for Prentice to surmize that Reyf has done anything wrong enough to warrant a court martial. Prentice should make a short comment about telling the name of the station now, instead of before the mission or during when it could make a difference. something like (sarcastic) 'thank you for telling me, only too late.' or more neutral: 'i could have used that info' or something to rub it in that the admiral is too late with this bit of info. Just 1 line will do, you dont need to let Reyf react. As a final 'Reyf turner' comment, this is way to soft. I think you should kick in the door fully, one more time.
I have not come up with a worthy alternative, unfortunately.
My idea was something with: Reyf having no ideas anymore, perhaps Prentice saying that Reyf has been a stubborn fool, and/or commenting that this pride thing has to stop, and that his fight with Garr isn't his alone.
Let me know what you guys think!
1. Black Blade
2. Kronos (no relation to the Klingon homeworld)
3. Kronos (Alt Mix)
4. Master of Shadows
5. What's Happening to Me
I have a favorite among this bunch but I don't want to unfairly bias anyone by saying which one it is. You be the judge!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7Sum_gO3E
It's just an early A/V test and so the shots are incomplete at best, but it's something to start from at least! Where does the full scene fall in the storyline? I'll tell you, but only if The Price is Right!
I tried most of not all of the others here, and dismissed them for not fitting properly. If Black Blade had a better middle piece, i would have taken that.
The rest is good (in my oppinion)
Huge fan of this rewrite, good scene that makes it way more "Personal" between Reyf and Prentice. I like this close on Prentice "defiant" arc too.
And a darker version:
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep the VOY-esque color scheme you see here or if I'm going to recolor it with First Contact-style colors like the rest of the ship. Gonna throw that one out to you guys: opinions?
Starting production on Scene 34 tonight. Hope to have the full scene posted soon.
And the "dark" version which will likely be used in the scene:
(Note to self: add some highlights on the artwork hanging on the wall if I use this version...)
Nicely done.
I'm already looking ahead to the next scene, which is due to take place inside the Jeffries tubes. The question here is simple: would you rather see a scene that takes place in the tube nexus (what was right inside the double doors in Main Engineering), or inside one of the horizontal tubes?
(i never really 'got' the idea of the maintenance access tubes; all you need is a tricorder, soldering iron and rubber bands and you can take control of the ship!)
Great scene, the only tibit I have is when Prentice says ' And Garr ' sound like his is saying ' En Garde' lmao
THEN we get the full story
By the way, the scene in the Jefferies tubes will have to wait until I can build the set, which is proceeding nicely:
The hatch to the horizontal tubes just looks too large to me, but we'll see once the whole set is completed. I really and truly think I'm the first person to model this--I'm excited to see the results!
(Even though the scene is actually going to take place in one of the horizontal tubes, I've decided that a camera pass through the nexus and several vertical layers will be a good intro for this scene.)
- I think the shouting part shout be replaced with a calmer version. The parts where you did not shout are much stronger and way more impressive than when you let Prentice go ape (1:55 - 2:01). I dont think that shouting has a place in this scene.
- The line "you can, and you will", i think the emphasis needs to be on 'will' and not on the second 'you'.
- The music does not really fit. I dont have much ambient music here, so i have no alternative, but here the music is more distracting than aiding the scene.
Overall, however: very good scene!
Pics of the horizontal tube coming soon.
Not a bad rendition if I do say so myself. The version that appears in the scene will have one section modified to include an open access panel.