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Westworld [Spoilers]

GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
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Season 3 in a few days. Don't think it's about cowboys anymore...
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  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th444 GermanyPosts: 338Member
    Loved the first season, but the second one was kind of lame. However the trailers look promising ... guess we'll see
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Well, that was quite a bit more straightforward than season two opening.

    Wonder if this is what they had in mind all along when they started their cowboy show in 2016? It's all a little Black Mirror now... :p

    It probably isn't terribly deep or original as far as robot uprisings go, but very well made and thoroughly entertaining. Strong start in my opinion. :)

    I liked the Rico app ("runs on blockchain" apparently) and always fun to see Valencia and Singapore (especially, since I've been to both pretty recently). I wonder if Maeve is doomed to forever roam pretty inconsequential B-plots in weird theme parks...
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  • rojrenrojren975 Louisville, Kentucky USAPosts: 1,636Member
    Are you sure it's straightforward? I wouldn't bet any amount of money on it being as straightforward as it seemed.

    I will bet on Maeve being the focus of whatever endgame they have planned. At least I hope there's a plan. I'll be pissed if there's not a plan.

    The cityscapes are striking.
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  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    rojren wrote: »
    Are you sure it's straightforward? I wouldn't bet any amount of money on it being as straightforward as it seemed.

    Well, compared to season 2. :p We're (probably) only dealing with a single timeline, have a pretty good idea who the main players are, and got a pretty solid chunk of world building and exposition to situate ourselves. I'm sure it will get more complicated, but the focus seems to be on what happens next rather than what the hell happened.

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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    I have only recently started to watch this.
    Loved the first season, Second been okay but not as good so far.
  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    edited March 2020 #7
    I'm the odd one out I guess, I actually liked Season 2 more than Season 1 for the shear force of the backstory info getting dumped in good doses. I'm not terribly convinced the totality of the "deep state" plot has even been revealed yet. There's still a lot happening in subtle moments alluding to something more interesting. My working theory is that nothing is what it appears to be in this show. I think the producers are setting up the audience for a huge mind-phuck.
    Post edited by sorceress21 on
  • kadenkaden704 JapanPosts: 214Member
    I am glad they didn't drag Warworld out past one episode. Westerosworld looks fun.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Yeah, Maeve figuring out and beating Warworld in one single episode was great. She's getting pretty good at this. :p

    Westerosworld was a fun goof, although the Benioff and Weiss cameo was less amusing, given the mess S8 was. :D Seeing Stubbs was a nice surprise, although the number of hosts in the original Mesa staff is starting to get a little silly, if you stop to think about it. The whole thing is veering pretty close to the Matrix at times too, French antagonist(?) in the information business, virtual simulations and all... I like the pacing so far. Things are moving along pretty quickly. There's a couple of mysteries, but it dsoesn't look like there's confusion about what the whole thing is about for multiple episodes this time around.

    So, I guess we're still missing William.
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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    edited March 2020 #10
    Okay I am got three episode left of season 2 at the moment.
    But how big is this island the theme park is on?
    We know that Westworld is quite size able as the Man in Blank did state in one episode that it was a two day ride to a place they where going.
    Then you got RajWorld and ShogunWorld, each quite sizeable. After seeing you guys talks about WarWorld and WesterosWorld. How many other worlds are there and again how big is this island. It got to be quite sizable and going off season 2 opener it is somewhere in the pacific.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Well, after S3 opener, we now know it's in
    South China Sea, somewhere around the Philippines specifically. I don't think the size of the island is really that important anymore though.
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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    edited March 2020 #12
    Okay I am now done with Season 2 and just finished watching the opening episode of season 3.
    Season 2 is not as bad as people made it out to be. Was there some WOKE-ness to the show? Yeah sure there was. Maybe because I binge the show instead of watching it weekly that I enjoyed it more. I don't know.
    But it was no where as good as season 1.

    I notice in the opening credit for season 3 that Ed Harris is still part of the show, so I am looking forward to see where his character develops. William AKA the Man in Black is one of my favourite characters on the show.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    I liked S2, but the pacing was a little slow, if you watched it when it came out. I imagine it works better if you don't have to wait a week for new episodes. William was in the trailer, so he's probably still in the show. :p
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  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Still no William. We did get some mysteries, though. Who's playing Charlotte Hale? They dropped a lot of clues pointing to completely different people, but I'm guessing Armistice. There were moments, where I was going "Teddy?", but I don't think that's the case. Who else got smuggled out from the park? What is Dolores's endgame, and was the whole recruiting Caleb bit planned or did she make it up as she went? It played out a bit like a park narrative, but maybe Westworld (the show) writers just enjoy tropes as much as Westworld (the park) writers. :p What's Serac's deal? They made a big point about him being an untraceable ghost, so maybe he's actually not a real physical person? They made a point about human minds deteriorating in host bodies, but thriving in virtual in S2 after all.

    Also, at least we now know what the dataheist in S1 was all about. :P

    I felt bad for Caleb's robot friend. Robots in general haven't been doing too hot, with Maeve's drone getting all shot up and Caleb's worked buddy. Riot Control bot will probably get some payback for robotkind at somepoint though... :p
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  • rojrenrojren975 Louisville, Kentucky USAPosts: 1,636Member
    I think Dolores recruited Caleb because she saw a (useful) kindred spirit. Both are people damaged by violence and forced onto a pre-ordained path by outside forces. And both object to that.
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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    The dataheist solved, well what they where stealing.

    I don't think it is Teddy in Charlotte, as Dolores uploaded him to "The Door" and then sent them somewhere else. (The last time we see Teddy is him in the field the other Host arrived in after going though "The Door.")

    So that raises the question of who was working with Dolores in season 2. I don't think it was anyone that was with Maeve, I can't see them all of a sudden working for her.
    So who does that leave left? Dolores Father? Clementine? not sure about her as she was "lobotomize" in season 1 and was pretty much a Zombie in season 2.

    I think your right about Serac. I don't think he is alive, and he is in the machine.
    As for William, looking at next week trailer it looks like he will be back in that.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    rojren wrote: »
    I think Dolores recruited Caleb because she saw a (useful) kindred spirit. Both are people damaged by violence and forced onto a pre-ordained path by outside forces. And both object to that.

    Right. But did she recruit him, because she genuinely sympathizes with him, or because their seemingly similar circumstances made him an easy target? She used and discarded plenty of hosts who believed in her cause last season.
    Freak wrote: »
    The dataheist solved, well what they where stealing.

    I don't think it is Teddy in Charlotte, as Dolores uploaded him to "The Door" and then sent them somewhere else. (The last time we see Teddy is him in the field the other Host arrived in after going though "The Door.")

    So that raises the question of who was working with Dolores in season 2. I don't think it was anyone that was with Maeve, I can't see them all of a sudden working for her.
    So who does that leave left? Dolores Father? Clementine? not sure about her as she was "lobotomize" in season 1 and was pretty much a Zombie in season 2.

    My guess is still Armistice. In addition to making it to the Valley Beyond, Teddy wasn't really that big a believer in Dolores's revolution in the end.
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  • rojrenrojren975 Louisville, Kentucky USAPosts: 1,636Member
    I'm thinking it's Dolorous' Dad. He was undergoing some major mental issues. I could see him ending up self-harming.
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  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    edited April 2020 #19
    Freak wrote: »
    The dataheist solved, well what they where stealing.

    I don't think it is Teddy in Charlotte, as Dolores uploaded him to "The Door" and then sent them somewhere else. (The last time we see Teddy is him in the field the other Host arrived in after going though "The Door.")

    So that raises the question of who was working with Dolores in season 2. I don't think it was anyone that was with Maeve, I can't see them all of a sudden working for her.
    So who does that leave left? Dolores Father? Clementine? not sure about her as she was "lobotomize" in season 1 and was pretty much a Zombie in season 2.

    I think your right about Serac. I don't think he is alive, and he is in the machine.
    As for William, looking at next week trailer it looks like he will be back in that.

    I think it's her father. The meek and confused nature of the current Charlotte character would line up there, but this show has been full of surprises so who knows.

    Two theories I have:

    Serac isn't in the machine, he IS the machine. I bet his name turns out to be an acronym. Something like:

    Sentient Electro Rationality Actuation Control or something else clever.

    Also, who else noticed Delores's short narrative on humans she gave to Caleb is quite different from her previous prose she delivered on her opinion of humans? I think Delores will abandon her season 2 mandate to destroy humanity for a goal that she was actually built to do, she's going to save it! She's going to be the primary protagonist. Maeve is being manipulated to stop her for a reason and it's not to prevent her from destroying us, its to stop her from helping to set us free. That, I think that was Arnold's goal, not immortality. That was Robert's twisted vision along with Delos.
    Post edited by sorceress21 on
  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    Well that was a helluva an episode! Big reveals.

    Now we know what the Project really was and who the pearls all are.

    Gotta admit I didn't see that one coming with the pearls!.

    I still think Serac is the machine and this episode enhanced that theory even more. I mean wouldn't everyone in the Singapore restaurant have noticed he brought a motionless host in with him? Clearly he and Maeve are in a virtual sim and being Maeve left there directly to start her mission it's really and quite heavily implying that we are watching a "The Matrix" styled deep plot unfold. It may be that there is "real life" happening parallel to a virtual simulation and we just haven't got any distinction yet or which one actually matters more.

    I didn't like the WIlliam arc taking the direction it did but I'm hoping that will be more profound then it was somehow especially considering what Delores said to him in the end.

    I also still think that Delores will end up being the "good guy" and obviously Bernard is getting played like a fiddle by her and her copies.
  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    edited April 2020 #21
    Yeah I did not except all the perils to be copies of Delores.

    Should have seen that coming. After all she is a robot so making a copy of her programming should have been obvious. But that does not explain why the Charlotte copy was having issues. So their could still be a twist there.

    I agree with Serac and Maeve being in the restaurant and no one noticing he has brought a host in with in. So I think your right there, She was most likely entered the real world at Arnold home.

    I too hope the William story goes somewhere other wish there is no point including him in the story, Charlotte could have just told the other board members that due to his experience/ injuries at the park. He has stepped down form CEO and place her in full command. Only time will tell.


    I have to say watching season three weekly has not been as entertaining as watching Season 1 & 2 Binge style. The episode seem to be slower than they where with the other seasons.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    edited April 2020 #22
    Yeah I'm tempted to stop watching until the season finale then binge watch the rest all in one sitting. For me it's a far more enjoyable experience. Weekly doses suck.
    Post edited by sorceress21 on
  • rojrenrojren975 Louisville, Kentucky USAPosts: 1,636Member
    I'd rather watch it episodically. It gives me a week to think about what happened, and it's something to actually look forward to.
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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    edited April 2020 #24
    some show suit binge watching other not so much.
    Like Classic Trek, even with DS9 it was episodic TV, so that wait each week for a new story gave you time to think about what you have watched. Hell even with DS9 season story arc, that week wait kept you hungry for more and you had no idea if the next episode that story would be the primary story or the secondary story.

    But show like this, Stranger Things etc where you have a story over the whole season. I think they are better suited to being Binged.
    Their are exception to this, like Best of Both World from TNG. Would the fist part had such a impact if you had watch the second part straight after. I don't think so.
    I guess it comes down to the show and the story you are watching.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Well, that answers that. :p

    In retrospect, very much in character and should've seen it coming. Incidentally, I think "If you want something done right, do it yourself" was the last thing real Connells said to Dolores in the SUV. :p

    So, she probably needed a human for the whole blood heist, since host blood probably looks different biometrically speaking, but seeing as Caleb got to go to the... uh... soirée she still has uses for him. Or does she have a soft spot? Does Dolores have soft spots for things that aren't her?

    I hope Stubbs is ok. :grimace:

    Looks like Yakuzalores is in the host body manufacturing business with all those vats of white goop. She's making a new world for their kind, so manufacturing bodies makes sense. I'm guessing the new world isn't virtual, since they're making physical bodies (and they'll never be free in a world that made by someone), and I'm a little curious if it's our old world. On the other hand, the rockets clearly showed that space is an option. Also, making hosts without Delos involvement is very much a requirement for any kind of freedom...

    I realize William probably still has a role to play, but leaving him like he is currently would be pretty cold. :p

    Wonder if nuked Paris is important, or just a side note in a character bio.

    I enjoy watching weekly. S2 was a little difficult at times due to the confusing timelines, but the current pacing of mystery-payoff is working very well for me.
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  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    Well, yet another big info-dump episode! I'm not wondering what's left...

    So Serac is now confirmed to be a real person (most likely).

    My opinion is that Delores turns out to be the hero of the whole damn story is solidified.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    I dunno. She may well end up the villain as well. I mean she broke everyone's loops, which is good I guess, but it might also just be part of her Kill all humans and take their world checklist. Serac's backstory was interestingly framed what with explaining Rehoboam's history to the AI itself, even if the story beats were pretty predictable. I liked the beginning bit with the Brazilian president. Think it's safe to assume Caleb is one of those outlier types and we'll probably dig deeper into the flashbacks. Also, he's clearly starting to question at least some of Dolores's methods.

    I realize the whole breaking everyone's loops was a big shift in the whole world, but I felt like it lacked the impact it was supposed to have. I also thought Genre was a pretty silly gimmick, but obviously the makers enjoyed it since it's the name of the whole episode. :p

    Yay, Stubbs made it. Felt (weirdly) bad for the bike though. It was so helpful and Dolores treated it like a pet.

    Wonder what Bernard's big role ends up being. They made an obvious point about how irreplaceable he is. On a weird note, I really like the effect of a bomb going off during the holo call.

    All in all a solid episode with some intriguing questions for future ones. Wish the big moment would've landed with a bit more oomph.
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  • sorceress21sorceress21268 Posts: 577Member
    Jeezus what a boring pointless episode. Literally nothing substantial happened!
  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    Yeah not much happened except a better look at who William actually is.
    I do like the fact that the different Dolores are starting to get their own personality. Like the Charlotte version caring about human Charlotte family.


    But we got what 3 episode left this season, I was expecting things to start ramping up for that final episode of the season / show.

    Yes I know they planned to do five seasons, but I have heard that Westworld is not getting the same viewing figures that Season 1 & 2 did. So it is possible that it could be cancelled
    Dose not help that there is a two year gap between seasons.

  • GuerrillaGuerrilla697 HelsinkiPosts: 2,758Administrator
    Dolores and Caleb had a week off, but I think quite a lot happened. Some of it a little hamfisted, maybe but entertaining nonetheless.

    Glad we got to see some more fallout from breaking the loops, but it's kinda weird no one seems to have a bright future. Like there seem to be no "lives a good long life, loved by many, dies peacefully in their sleep" kind of profiles. Then again, they probably wouldn't make for very compelling stories. I like how the doctors breakdown was shot. Pretty clever. We got a big arc with William (I guess he's the Man in White now), but I don't he's that an interesting a character anymore. Like, Harris did a good job and the whole therapy session was pretty fun and visceral, and the questions about free will and whether he has any choice about the way he is are interesting in theory, but I'm finding myself pretty uninvested in his huge personal discoveries. Like the fact that he was bad as a kid made very little difference to me (or to him, as it turns out). Was neat to see Jimmi Simpson again though.

    They spend a lot of the episode setting up motivations for some pretty obvious showdowns, which I think was maybe a little hamfisted, but at least we now know that Maeve will go after Dolores for what she did to Hector and Halores has a personal beef with Serac. They really blew that car up. :p I was pretty sure they all died for a long while there. I'm wondering how Halores will turn up now that she can focus on going after Serac instead of keeping up appearances. I think the whole big cared about her family too much reveal could've landed a little better, but there was other stuff going on, so I forgot about it pretty quick.

    What was the "unknown protein" in William? Was that the thingy Halores injected him with when they committed him? They tracked him to the institution, but how come Bernard and Stubbs showed up? Did Halores send them the info? Why? Was the point to find the facility or something else?

    I liked riot bot. Nice to see a robot do some of the opressing for a change. :p Reminded me a bit of Mathew O's stuff.

    Wonder who the two other Maeve's helpers are, and why they didn't show up on Warworld like Hector. Maybe only Hector was needed for establishing why Maeve would really want to go after Dolores.

    Fun detail that probably doesn't mean anything: The dude painting a graffiti on the street was making a maze.

    Are we still missing one Dolores? We have the original, Halores, what's left of Connells and Yakuzalores. Was it always 4+ Bernard or are there five out there?
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  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    I thought it was well you had Charlotte to get off the island, plus five pears she had in the bag. So it five Dolores, plus Bernard.

    So with that in mind there is still one version of Dolores out there we have set to see.
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