I've thrown together something to give you some ideas that would allow you to better situate the main control panel's orientation with the pilot. The question marked areas are good places to put controls that aren't vital during operations requiring the full attention of the pilot: communications, main power, radar and environmental for example. The glass rod under the button thing is, honestly, a dumb idea. What if something is floating around the cockpit with enough force to hit the button? A recessed button negates the possibility. EVERY safety button like that I've ever seen in bomber or fighter craft is ALWAYS recessed. And I've seen a lot in my 16 years in the Air Force. One thing I just realized...where's your Master Caution Panel?
Agreed with everything Schimpfy said. I have seven years in the Air Force as a weapons loader, and aside from covered, recessed, or otherwise guarded switches, there are also switches that get safety-wired (copper wire, easy to break with minor effort) and sealed (lead seal with individual identifier markings crimped over the wire), such as the master arm switch when nukes are loaded (on F-111D's and F-111F's). The wire and seal isn't so much to prevent activation, as it is to indicate whether someone unauthorized has been messing around.
Schimpfy and Maxxrush are right, the panel just doesn't work, and the lack of a master caution panel are serious problems. I would follow Schimpfy's concept and after bringing your main panel to vertical, or near vertical move any panels that don't fit to the other open spaces.
ok,thanks for the redesign of the panel but it still seems to have some issues. raising the angle of the control panel is comparatively easy to do BUT as i said before where do the instruments that were across the top of it go? the two question marked areas forward of the joysticks on each side panel will contain some instruments but the furthest back question marked areas are going to be pretty difficult to reach as they are more or less level with the pilot's back and the pilot would have to almost reach behind himself. the small panel hanging down from the main panel looks a good idea but i'm not sure if there's quite enough space, i'll test it. now if you are suggesting i take those instruments from the top panel and put them across the top of the main panel where the MFDs are currently that could be done but then i would lose probably the entirety of the top MFDs. i could then try halving the section where the engine controls have yet to go and putting half as an MFD and leaving the other half as an engine panel with a switch to select between the right and left engines. effectively there are tow ways i can realistically go from here i have shown some pics to describe them. this "master caution panel" thing can be fitted in where i said instruments could go near the joysticks but it would need to be pretty small. in a few minutes i will have uploaded tow diagrams showing the two schemes i could go with. take a look and advise which is better but i can't think of any other good solution.
won't be long with those pics.
here are the two potential setups
please advise which i should use layout2.jpg layout3.png
right i have now practically finished the cockpit using the old scheme. i think i will stick with it as it all fits properly and within a few hours of some really simple fiddling around with the engine panel and adding the master caution panel all the work in sketchup will be DONE!!! at last!! i would still appreciate advice on texturing and what sort of materials look good in various places.
thanks for your help so far but i think my design is now finished.
it's just texturing to do now.
The second concept is a great improvement. But I would suggest to either go with one large MFD to replace those instruments, or four smaller ones. Also, don't make the engine panel any larger than a standard MFD, you have been giving it too much panel real estate right now. Then put your engine start/shut down panel on one of the side consoles.
been working some more on the panels, turned out that the full panel tilted up just didn't work, not enough space. i also found there were a few other things that needed adding so one of those top MFDs has had to go to make room for it. my current plan is to have the engine controls take up only half of that big bottom panel and devote the other half to a second larger MFD. the comms controls will have to be squeezed in behind the environmental controls but they will be some fairly simple things so not much to get in there. the master caution panel will be fitted just forwrad of the emergency buttons. when you say engine startup/shut down pane what are you refferring to starting and shutting them down is a matter of flicking one or two switches per engine, should these be separate from the man engine panel?
COmpare your design to these. This is the F-35, notice how only the most important panels and controls are up front, the rest are off to the sides. The rest is the integrated into that large MFD, making it to quite a lot. But the pilot can bring up individual systems displays at the touch of a button, or the screen.
And check the size of the cockpit here.
thanks for this, it's just turning out to be quite a nightmare to fit things in. i don't know why but i've always thought that the really critical stuff should be hard wired rather than on a touchscreen system vulnerable to radiation/electric fields . i really wish there was a way to somehow get more space that way i could get in everything i wanted and some more MFDs. it looks like this as of late tonight but and i'm really struggling to work out the engine part of the panel, everything i design just won't fit, i've got to get stuff for 4 reactors onto each half(four power reactors in total and then two engine reactors in the neptune primaries and two reactors in the triton secondaries.). any tips on getting more dashboard space would be helful as long as they don't require a really severe reworking of the hull and will allow for preservation of most of the stuff i have already built.
one severe issue is that the size of the buttons and switches is so large compared to the size of the panels, i can't realistically make the buttons and switches much smaller or shrink the dials and display elements much. the main thing obstucting what i really want to get is the lack of overall panel area, damn i keep thinking of new things that need to go on panels: easily visible craft temperature display (as during space combat firing lasers will generate loads of waste heat that must be radiated away, though in short term can be dumped into heat sinks, and this heat must be managed to avoid the craft overheating)
more controls for the gun and it's small turret
precise course plotting stuff layout4.jpg
If you have that many systems and panels that must be monitored constantly, they way you are implying, then you need to add a second crewmember just to monitor those systems. If your reactors as so unstable that they must be constantly monitored and adjusted then they either shouldn't be on the craft, or have a dedicated computer/droid/person controlling it.
You could also make some systems voice activated and yes a 2nd pilot is most likely need for the amount of systems you insist cramming on to this tiny jet
now comes the "big push" to get the panel finished. if it all goes well all modelling could be finished by tomorrow, if not so well i hope to finish by next week, just before the deadline for xp computers.
ALL modelling is NOW DONE!!! victory!! am currently uploading a vid to youtube just to show the approximate current state of the exterior. the cockpit has been finished and i did succeed in getting both the engine control panel and an MFD into the remaining space, everything i planned to include has fitted in, just. a picture of the final cockpit layout is below. link to video will be attached as soon as the upload process(from by pitifully slow connection) is complete. Attachment not found.
Overall, the work you've put into this is great and the amount of detail is quite nice. With that being said, anyone who has to fly this thing will hate you...a lot. If they survive their first operational combat sortie I'd suggest going into hiding because they're going to hunt you down with the express intent to severely maim you.
initial "cover image" of video is miscoloured but actual video is correct
please advise on any texture improvements you think would be a good idea(ASAP). thanks
transferred it into blender, am now working on materials and rigging. from looking at the video(previous post) does the dirt texture look good, if not what changes should be made to it. it is currently a procedural dirty layer on top of the underlying metal texture, it can be made more subtle or in thinner bands but detailed(more dirt on this spot please) stuff with it is rather hard.
p.s. the test pilot wanting to get his revenge, is that because some of the controls are further from the pilot than in a standard cockpit? too late, and difficult to change now though, sorry.
should get a chance to finish off texturing and rigging on, or before, thursday.
p.s. the test pilot wanting to get his revenge, is that because some of the controls are further from the pilot than in a standard cockpit? too late, and difficult to change now though, sorry.
I say that because your flawed design will kill your pilots. "Widow Maker" would be an apt nickname for this...thing. And of course it's too late to change it. :rolleyes: Why would any of us expect any effort to improve anything on your part? smh
I say that because your flawed design will kill your pilots. "Widow Maker" would be an apt nickname for this...thing. And of course it's too late to change it. :rolleyes: Why would any of us expect any effort to improve anything on your part? smh
I guess in his universe it is common place for the military to fly in coffins that are do all vehicles
I see serious problems with that cockpit, but the most glaring of which is the fact that you have your main power switch right behind the throttle, under red covered switches. One mistaken hand position and you shut down the whole craft. Death trap anyone?
He could also solve some things by making them voice activated also by putting some of the screen readouts in to a hud in the pilots helmet thus eliminating screens on the console giving more room for all thos buttons he can't figure out
you'd have to lift the cover to activate the main power switch, a knock from the elbow won't do it. i thought having only covered switches in that area made sense as they are not so vulnerable in a region where a pilots arm will be when operating the thrust lever. there is already an HUD, i probably should have made more use of it, damn!
one thing that does p1ss me off is how the panel for the second MFD is narrower than the other panels, problem is the engine one has to be that wide to fit everything on.
actually on second thoughts IF i can get the old computer not to crash when i try and edit that bit of the model i will reorganize the engine panel to squeeze it in and widen the MFD. when i next turn the old machine on, where i am currently working, despite it's slowness in some ways it's easier for modelling with than the new machine if only because of mouse and keyboard sizes, if i can get into the right bit of the mesh without a crash i will do it. fortunately export is much quicker than i expected, i thought it might take two hours on that computer as it is it only needs 30 min. i'll have to see if it crashes so no guarantees yet, but an idea.
perhaps this would be better, engine panel and bottom MFD can go wither way round. think engine on left MFD on right might be better actually.Attachment not found.
You would be far better off to go with one large, or four small MFDs. Then design some GUI screens to replace the current panels where ever possible. That engine panels in particular would make a good GUI.
As for your covered power switches, realize that real red covered switches work by being on with the cover and switch up, and off with the cover down. That requires two steps, and therefore intent to activate a system, and one to shut it down. Main power is never dependent on a switch like that as a result, but a guarded switch instead. You see two step red switches on things like, the Master Arm, Fuel Dump, Weapons Jettison (though sometimes that is a one time covered button), etc...
You would be far better off to go with one large, or four small MFDs. Then design some GUI screens to replace the current panels where ever possible. That engine panels in particular would make a good GUI.
As for your covered power switches, realize that real red covered switches work by being on with the cover and switch up, and off with the cover down. That requires two steps, and therefore intent to activate a system, and one to shut it down. Main power is never dependent on a switch like that as a result, but a guarded switch instead. You see two step red switches on things like, the Master Arm, Fuel Dump, Weapons Jettison (though sometimes that is a one time covered button), etc...
my model has covered switches which can be in either state with covers up or down. the switch is shaped so that it can be in either on or off position whilst cover is down. this requires two actions to both activate or deactivate, lifting the cover then flicking the switch. as for MFDs i have fiddled arund as you saw last time so there are now two of them but the engine controls are just to important to put into an MFD for risk of interference form planetary magnetic fields, cosmic rays, EMPs etc causing damage, or atleast temporary shutdown, to the more complex electronics. won't get a chance for any work in it until thursday(gmt) so if you have any other suggestions i will be able to accept or decline them whilst i am still able to do so without too much difficulty.
The reason switches are guarded is to keep them in the OFF, SAFE or NORM position. When the guard is lifted it allows the operator to move the switch to another position. However, as soon as the guard is closed it resets the position of the switch. That's the point of guarding the switches in that manner.
i thought switch guards could come in both that form and the one i discussed, anyway mine are as described(as i assume doing what i said they should do is better for operation in the case of what they operate and where they are placed.). there is certainly no technical difficulty with the switch type i am proposing even though it is obviously not the standard sort.
Generally, only a small amount of switches will be reversed. Generators being the main one I can think of off the top of my head. Other than that, going against the standard is another way you're going to kill someone. There are certain aspects that are usually the same across airframes. If you plan on changing things up all willy nilly that's a bad idea. But whatever. It's your universe. I will say, though, that I would wager that in a fight with current tech your fighter will fall...every single time with the exception of a lucky shot.
If your systems are susceptible to EMI then your ship is going to die. The fact that you have fusion reactors onboard means it must have EMI shielding on the major systems. Your engine display will be no less secure against EMI then a full up MFD, and will make using it even harder.
As for the switch argument, Schimpfy covered that pretty well. I have not seen an improvement to this cockpit design at all once that is considered.
Generally, only a small amount of switches will be reversed. Generators being the main one I can think of off the top of my head. Other than that, going against the standard is another way you're going to kill someone. There are certain aspects that are usually the same across airframes. If you plan on changing things up all willy nilly that's a bad idea. But whatever. It's your universe. I will say, though, that I would wager that in a fight with current tech your fighter will fall...every single time with the exception of a lucky shot.
when you say "reversed" please clarify what you mean. do you mean having the guard merely as a guard to stop the switch being knocked rather than as a "two actions to deploy, one to deactivate" system like i've described. the switches behind the throttle are the switches to activate/deactivate each reactor. and the main overall power switch.
good point about EM , knight but i do like have some stuff hard wired just from a modelling perspective. two MFDs is better than 1 atleast.
otherwise you can't see anything you dislike? your last line in your previous comment wasn't too clear.
ok i'm working on it now. i'll widen the bottom MFD a bit and make the area slightly neater. otherwise i don't see anything else to do.
control panel altered so MFD was wider and engine panel a bit thinner. one or two more switches added. going for export now.
all modelling is completely finished now!! and so is the rigging of the model in blender. texturing is done but i'm not sure if it looks right, from some angles it does other times it seems a bit unrealistic. i created a nice effect whereby the panel lines have a much lower specular value than the main hull metal so as to cause them to stand out more when the light source is at the right kind of angle. the rigging was my second attempt at rigging ever but turned out to be quite easy and worked well. there are a few master objects(one of the thruster doors, one of the radiator covers, one of the landing gear struts, etc) which when moved or rotated cause all the other objects of that type to copy the action, with mirroring where needed. is there anything you can think of that would improve the appearance of the model in the renders(not a redesign of the fighter, thanks), when suggesting anything to do with textures please provide an image so i know what sort of texture it should look more like.
there are 20 pictures of it from an array of angles and a video on youtube, links(my blog is not the same one as in my signature any more) will be provided when the youtube upload is complete. hellhound thumbnail.jpg hh test1.png hh test2.png hh test4.png hh test3.png hh test5.png hh test6.png hh test7.png hh test8.png hh test9.png
Posts
Agreed with everything Schimpfy said. I have seven years in the Air Force as a weapons loader, and aside from covered, recessed, or otherwise guarded switches, there are also switches that get safety-wired (copper wire, easy to break with minor effort) and sealed (lead seal with individual identifier markings crimped over the wire), such as the master arm switch when nukes are loaded (on F-111D's and F-111F's). The wire and seal isn't so much to prevent activation, as it is to indicate whether someone unauthorized has been messing around.
won't be long with those pics.
here are the two potential setups
please advise which i should use
layout2.jpg
layout3.png
right i have now practically finished the cockpit using the old scheme. i think i will stick with it as it all fits properly and within a few hours of some really simple fiddling around with the engine panel and adding the master caution panel all the work in sketchup will be DONE!!! at last!! i would still appreciate advice on texturing and what sort of materials look good in various places.
thanks for your help so far but i think my design is now finished.
it's just texturing to do now.
And check the size of the cockpit here.
one severe issue is that the size of the buttons and switches is so large compared to the size of the panels, i can't realistically make the buttons and switches much smaller or shrink the dials and display elements much. the main thing obstucting what i really want to get is the lack of overall panel area, damn i keep thinking of new things that need to go on panels: easily visible craft temperature display (as during space combat firing lasers will generate loads of waste heat that must be radiated away, though in short term can be dumped into heat sinks, and this heat must be managed to avoid the craft overheating)
more controls for the gun and it's small turret
precise course plotting stuff
layout4.jpg
Attachment not found.
please advise on any texture improvements you think would be a good idea(ASAP). thanks
transferred it into blender, am now working on materials and rigging. from looking at the video(previous post) does the dirt texture look good, if not what changes should be made to it. it is currently a procedural dirty layer on top of the underlying metal texture, it can be made more subtle or in thinner bands but detailed(more dirt on this spot please) stuff with it is rather hard.
p.s. the test pilot wanting to get his revenge, is that because some of the controls are further from the pilot than in a standard cockpit? too late, and difficult to change now though, sorry.
should get a chance to finish off texturing and rigging on, or before, thursday.
I say that because your flawed design will kill your pilots. "Widow Maker" would be an apt nickname for this...thing. And of course it's too late to change it. :rolleyes: Why would any of us expect any effort to improve anything on your part? smh
one thing that does p1ss me off is how the panel for the second MFD is narrower than the other panels, problem is the engine one has to be that wide to fit everything on.
actually on second thoughts IF i can get the old computer not to crash when i try and edit that bit of the model i will reorganize the engine panel to squeeze it in and widen the MFD. when i next turn the old machine on, where i am currently working, despite it's slowness in some ways it's easier for modelling with than the new machine if only because of mouse and keyboard sizes, if i can get into the right bit of the mesh without a crash i will do it. fortunately export is much quicker than i expected, i thought it might take two hours on that computer as it is it only needs 30 min. i'll have to see if it crashes so no guarantees yet, but an idea.
perhaps this would be better, engine panel and bottom MFD can go wither way round. think engine on left MFD on right might be better actually.Attachment not found.
As for your covered power switches, realize that real red covered switches work by being on with the cover and switch up, and off with the cover down. That requires two steps, and therefore intent to activate a system, and one to shut it down. Main power is never dependent on a switch like that as a result, but a guarded switch instead. You see two step red switches on things like, the Master Arm, Fuel Dump, Weapons Jettison (though sometimes that is a one time covered button), etc...
As for the switch argument, Schimpfy covered that pretty well. I have not seen an improvement to this cockpit design at all once that is considered.
good point about EM , knight but i do like have some stuff hard wired just from a modelling perspective. two MFDs is better than 1 atleast.
otherwise you can't see anything you dislike? your last line in your previous comment wasn't too clear.
ok i'm working on it now. i'll widen the bottom MFD a bit and make the area slightly neater. otherwise i don't see anything else to do.
control panel altered so MFD was wider and engine panel a bit thinner. one or two more switches added. going for export now.
there are 20 pictures of it from an array of angles and a video on youtube, links(my blog is not the same one as in my signature any more) will be provided when the youtube upload is complete.
hellhound thumbnail.jpg
hh test1.png
hh test2.png
hh test4.png
hh test3.png
hh test5.png
hh test6.png
hh test7.png
hh test8.png
hh test9.png
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