it now looks like this, only 3 or four more dodgy points to deal with... cockpit canopy and gun barrel have been removed for this image. cockpit has yet to be worked on but as soon as i have cleared up the last surface problems i will detail it, i've found a very neat way to fit plenty of surfaces for control panels into it and am currently deciding whether to entirely dump having any rear compartment or whether to have a very small one accessible by sliding the seat back. another point is that i am altering the design of the cockpit canopy, i want to thicken the "glass" but to do this without it looking weird(as it would be two translucent surfaces next to each other) from certain angles i am going to need to add some struts, this will degrade the pilot's visibility but not by much and in space it is sensors other than his eyes doing much of the work with enhanced displays projected onto his visor and HUD. thanks for the lighting clue cool hand, my blender setup currently has the light sources above and below the model with another pair at an angle. adding some extra lights fixes the vertical faces issue. now it's just t vertices, which are fairly easy to deal with. pics follow Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found.
Cons
- Your curved panel lines look awful
- The transition from your forward fuselage into the main fuselage is horrendous
- Your textures need a lot of work
- The extra wing things are a bad idea aerodynamically speaking
How do you fix the mesh issues? Scrap and rebuild the model. Textures? Start with a basic color map and add weathering/wear where necessary, but don't add "dirt" to the entire thing.
I would put the main gear struts at the back of the gear bays (have them retract forward). Reason being, during a landing, you will end up tail-dragging with your gear where it is right now. Moving it back will allow you the same AOA during landing (or takeoff) without worrying about damaging your engine nozzles.
Unless you plan on having flat landings, like a B-47 or B-52.
SF I see a lot of nice parts, but the whole just doesn't work. The design does not flow at all. While your modeling skills have improved by an exceptional degree you are allowing this old design to drag you down. You really just need to scrap it and start over. Keep the parts that you like and are well done and integrate them into a whole new model.
I would put the main gear struts at the back of the gear bays (have them retract forward). Reason being, during a landing, you will end up tail-dragging with your gear where it is right now. Moving it back will allow you the same AOA during landing (or takeoff) without worrying about damaging your engine nozzles.
Unless you plan on having flat landings, like a B-47 or B-52.
don't worry it's mainly vtol, some of the underside thrusters are used, they are fed gas from the ramjets and onboard tanks and give an easily high enough thrust for the purpose. as for the "terrible" panel lines, in what way are they so wrong, with the transition section what shape do you think it should be?
don't worry it's mainly vtol, some of the underside thrusters are used, they are fed gas from the ramjets and onboard tanks and give an easily high enough thrust for the purpose.
"Mainly VTOL"? Then why use wheels at all? Pads would be better and could be made more compact. If there's a situation that might require wheels, though, then my point still remains.
i've made some progress, that unpleasant bit on the nose to main hull transition has been flattened out a bit, i put the panel lines back afterwards but i think it is improved now. i am abandoning having anything in a "rear compartment" and am now about to start work on the cockpit. regarding the "terrible panel lines" can someone tell me why they think they are terrible then i might be able to correct the issue. as i type i'm rendering a test video i will stick on youtube, then you can see how the model behaves under render conditions, it is a pretty fast video but it gives you some ideas. only two spots on the hull need geometry corrections now, they are the underside join from the intake to the main hull and the bit just below the pillar on the area around the cockpit.
further good news, i now only need to fix 7 very small spots on the geometry( 6 of which i am absolutely certain how to repair) then complete the control panel and she's finished! i don't get so much time to work on 3d stuff any more but when i do i end up creating pictures at the end of a day's work to remind me what needs fixing when i get another chance a few weeks later. the latest of those is with this post, otherwise the model is in truly perfect shape! fixthis2.jpg
i also had a strange issue with texture mapping but i think i've fixed it.
I will say that you are doing a remarkable job of polishing this turd, but in the end it is still a turd. Which sad because you have some great individual parts here, they just don't add up to a good whole.
ok, quick questions for the last parts of my "turd". fire extinguisher in cockpit, yes or no? and, sorry you'll have to wait an hour or so for the pics as i am typing on the new machine and the model is on the old machine, which of these thruster arrangements is better? the second one i drafted up today, looking at the thrust vectors i can tell that this setup could perform every function the old one could, all thrusters on a side can fire for yawing, all top or bottom can fire for pitch and to roll you can fire them in pairs to make a couple about the COM. the jets from them would no longer hit the foreplanes, as i said pics in an hour or so. i've fixed all bar one of the geometry errors now, the one in question is that on the cockpit canopy frame. i might have fixed it but won't know until i try an import of this new version to blender. none the less it feels great to be this near completion!!
ok, quick questions for the last parts of my "turd". fire extinguisher in cockpit, yes or no?
Jesus! Why are you worrying about freaking fire extinguishers in the cockpit? That isn't rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic pointless, it's making sure the fish forks are in the right spot in the place settings on the Titanic pointless! The whole thing just lacks verisimilitude.
Here's a way yo solve your fire extinguisher have small pipe sticking out of the hull with a butterfly velvet when fire occurs open butterfly velvet let air escape in yo vacuum of space no air = no fire
right, google drive had crashed so it took me longer than expected to trnasfer the files betwen machines. pics are here. Attachment not found.
which type is better, as for the fire extinguisher would one usually be carried in a fighter aircraft?
as in first image Attachment not found.
i'll change the old design on the other side to match this when i get back to work on it tomorrow or the weekend.
I will second Colbs answer. But what would be even better would be to get rid of those silly doors. If you want to keep them for Mx purposes then have them mate up with the nozzles so that they don't have to open to be used. Then keep the doors to open for ground scenes with maintainers. There is no reason why have to cover up the thrusters that way.
Also, the rule of thumb for pilots is, if there is a fire in the cockpit, eject, eject, eject.
In space though you could vent the internal atmosphere to blow out the fire too, if the pilot is in a space suit.
ok, the new setup for forward thruster sis copied on both sides now, the geometry below the pylon is cleaned, the messy geometry near the tail is cleaned, the inside of the engine has been altered, though there is not much to see of it, the outside of the hull is ALL DONE!!, the cockpit structure is modelled, the seat is finished and cleaned up, the basic underlying shapes for the control panel are in place, cockpit needs a little more work, control panel still to finish(but a small part of it done) and i spent a few hours today practising some rigging techniques in blender for once i have finished the model and want to set it up for animation. i've abandoned the fire extinuisher in the cockpit, as for venting out all the air, that can't be done though( the pilot does not have a full space suit as it would impede his movement(in my scifi suits are still bulky inconvenient things)) however if anything goes wrong in the rear that can be vented as it is sealed off from the cockpit. model will be FINISHED very soon. cockpit test.jpg Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found. hellhound1.jpg Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found. Attachment not found.
does this look better now?? will turn down dirt a little if it helps.
What's the distance between the seat and the control panel? Looks like the pilot would have to lean forward to touch it which would be highly inconvenient. The texture on the hull exterior looks really unconvincing.
the 'pit's not actually looking too awful if not very futuristic, but serviceable, functional and enough controls to fly a ship, seems well thought through. You need a skeleton at least in there to demonstrate that its all ergonomic enough and make changes if needed.
Wow, am I seeing this right, SF took someones advice?
As for the cockpit design, while your old version was seriously outdated, the new design is far too spartan. You have two MFDs and then panels with nothing on them. Do you plan to populate them? If so I would recommend dedicated panels for things like:
Warning, Landing Gear, Engines/Powerplants, Life Support, Fuel, etc... Look at a real aircraft and see what panels they all have as common.
As for your controls. What is your control scheme? If I could offer a recommendation. Keep the right stick like on modern aircraft; pitch and roll. Keep the rudder pedals for Yaw. Make the left stick your transitional controls; side motion results in lateral thrusters (side to side), forward and back motion as your throttle control. Then add another control on there for your vertical translation controls (up and down). Your big throttle lever, keep that for your hyperspace controls, assuming that you don't just have a big button for that.
In regards to your textures, they look very 15 years ago, like something I would see in the original Half Life game. It just makes them look cheap and unconvincing.
Finally, you have FTL/hyperspace yet still have bulky space suits? Most of the next gen space suit designs out there are far less bulky and are moving towards skin suits. Even then, if your pilots are modernesque flight suits, they should still have some kind of oxygen mask and helmet setup. So if there is a fire in the cockpit the pilot could still vent the atmosphere, or just turn down the oxygen supply to the cockpit, keeping it on in the helmet. That would choke the flames as well.
What's the distance between the seat and the control panel? Looks like the pilot would have to lean forward to touch it which would be highly inconvenient. The texture on the hull exterior looks really unconvincing.
please note that the cockpit pictures are on very wide angle lens so the distances may be a bit deceptive, given the shape i can't get the main panel much closer to the pilot without having to chop off his legs, also given the details i have added (the rivets etc) altering it could be tricky.
i will post some pics with a pilot model in there just to show scale.
what is your advice for improving textures?
thanks
the 'pit's not actually looking too awful if not very futuristic, but serviceable, functional and enough controls to fly a ship, seems well thought through. You need a skeleton at least in there to demonstrate that its all ergonomic enough and make changes if needed.
will show some pics with a pilot, cockpit may look a little more futuristic when finished but really having simple old switches and such offers better reliability in the electromagnetic and radiation environments it may operate in.
thanks
Wow, am I seeing this right, SF took someones advice?
As for the cockpit design, while your old version was seriously outdated, the new design is far too spartan. You have two MFDs and then panels with nothing on them. Do you plan to populate them? If so I would recommend dedicated panels for things like:
Warning, Landing Gear, Engines/Powerplants, Life Support, Fuel, etc... Look at a real aircraft and see what panels they all have as common.
As for your controls. What is your control scheme? If I could offer a recommendation. Keep the right stick like on modern aircraft; pitch and roll. Keep the rudder pedals for Yaw. Make the left stick your transitional controls; side motion results in lateral thrusters (side to side), forward and back motion as your throttle control. Then add another control on there for your vertical translation controls (up and down). Your big throttle lever, keep that for your hyperspace controls, assuming that you don't just have a big button for that.
In regards to your textures, they look very 15 years ago, like something I would see in the original Half Life game. It just makes them look cheap and unconvincing.
Finally, you have FTL/hyperspace yet still have bulky space suits? Most of the next gen space suit designs out there are far less bulky and are moving towards skin suits. Even then, if your pilots are modernesque flight suits, they should still have some kind of oxygen mask and helmet setup. So if there is a fire in the cockpit the pilot could still vent the atmosphere, or just turn down the oxygen supply to the cockpit, keeping it on in the helmet. That would choke the flames as well.
of course i plan t place more stuff on the panels, what you can see at the moment is the underlying structure, each black panel bit will have switches, lights dials etc on it when finished. my control scheme is two joysticks either side of the pilot, their functions can be altered with a small selector switch next to each, most used layout is rotation control on right and translation on left, further to the pilot's left is the thrust lever. one of the pedals can be kicked for hyperspace entry, the other has not had a function assigned to it yet.
how do you advise texture improvement?
good thought on cutting oxygen supply, yes i could do that. i'll add a switch which in the event of a fire sucks out the oxygen and replaces it with something inert.
thanks
I see a serious problem there, the console is too far away and the angle just makes it worse.
An aircraft cockpit panel is vertical or near vertical for a reason, so the pilot can reach it easily.
Also it is too far away from the pilot: The rule of thumb is for a small fighter type aircraft, that a pilot must be able to reach all essential controls with their back and shoulders still against the seat. If they have to lean forward, that is wrong. For non-essential controls, those can require more movement.
Look at even a car's dashboard, it's all vertical, not angled away. Given that I doubt you even drive yet, I am not surprised that you would make such a mistake. Sorry to be harsh but come on man we have given you a ton of references but once again you have ignored all of them.
Posts
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- Most of your mesh segmentation is gone.
Cons
- Your curved panel lines look awful
- The transition from your forward fuselage into the main fuselage is horrendous
- Your textures need a lot of work
- The extra wing things are a bad idea aerodynamically speaking
How do you fix the mesh issues? Scrap and rebuild the model. Textures? Start with a basic color map and add weathering/wear where necessary, but don't add "dirt" to the entire thing.
Unless you plan on having flat landings, like a B-47 or B-52.
"Mainly VTOL"? Then why use wheels at all? Pads would be better and could be made more compact. If there's a situation that might require wheels, though, then my point still remains.
video is here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvDt6y4iXA8
apologies but youtube dropped the quality by maybe a factor of 1.5 ish.
fixthis2.jpg
i also had a strange issue with texture mapping but i think i've fixed it.
Jesus! Why are you worrying about freaking fire extinguishers in the cockpit? That isn't rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic pointless, it's making sure the fish forks are in the right spot in the place settings on the Titanic pointless! The whole thing just lacks verisimilitude.
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which type is better, as for the fire extinguisher would one usually be carried in a fighter aircraft?
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i'll change the old design on the other side to match this when i get back to work on it tomorrow or the weekend.
Also, the rule of thumb for pilots is, if there is a fire in the cockpit, eject, eject, eject.
In space though you could vent the internal atmosphere to blow out the fire too, if the pilot is in a space suit.
cockpit test.jpg
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hellhound1.jpg
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does this look better now?? will turn down dirt a little if it helps.
the 'pit's not actually looking too awful if not very futuristic, but serviceable, functional and enough controls to fly a ship, seems well thought through. You need a skeleton at least in there to demonstrate that its all ergonomic enough and make changes if needed.
As for the cockpit design, while your old version was seriously outdated, the new design is far too spartan. You have two MFDs and then panels with nothing on them. Do you plan to populate them? If so I would recommend dedicated panels for things like:
Warning, Landing Gear, Engines/Powerplants, Life Support, Fuel, etc... Look at a real aircraft and see what panels they all have as common.
As for your controls. What is your control scheme? If I could offer a recommendation. Keep the right stick like on modern aircraft; pitch and roll. Keep the rudder pedals for Yaw. Make the left stick your transitional controls; side motion results in lateral thrusters (side to side), forward and back motion as your throttle control. Then add another control on there for your vertical translation controls (up and down). Your big throttle lever, keep that for your hyperspace controls, assuming that you don't just have a big button for that.
In regards to your textures, they look very 15 years ago, like something I would see in the original Half Life game. It just makes them look cheap and unconvincing.
Finally, you have FTL/hyperspace yet still have bulky space suits? Most of the next gen space suit designs out there are far less bulky and are moving towards skin suits. Even then, if your pilots are modernesque flight suits, they should still have some kind of oxygen mask and helmet setup. So if there is a fire in the cockpit the pilot could still vent the atmosphere, or just turn down the oxygen supply to the cockpit, keeping it on in the helmet. That would choke the flames as well.
please note that the cockpit pictures are on very wide angle lens so the distances may be a bit deceptive, given the shape i can't get the main panel much closer to the pilot without having to chop off his legs, also given the details i have added (the rivets etc) altering it could be tricky.
i will post some pics with a pilot model in there just to show scale.
what is your advice for improving textures?
thanks
will show some pics with a pilot, cockpit may look a little more futuristic when finished but really having simple old switches and such offers better reliability in the electromagnetic and radiation environments it may operate in.
thanks
of course i plan t place more stuff on the panels, what you can see at the moment is the underlying structure, each black panel bit will have switches, lights dials etc on it when finished. my control scheme is two joysticks either side of the pilot, their functions can be altered with a small selector switch next to each, most used layout is rotation control on right and translation on left, further to the pilot's left is the thrust lever. one of the pedals can be kicked for hyperspace entry, the other has not had a function assigned to it yet.
how do you advise texture improvement?
good thought on cutting oxygen supply, yes i could do that. i'll add a switch which in the event of a fire sucks out the oxygen and replaces it with something inert.
thanks
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An aircraft cockpit panel is vertical or near vertical for a reason, so the pilot can reach it easily.
Also it is too far away from the pilot: The rule of thumb is for a small fighter type aircraft, that a pilot must be able to reach all essential controls with their back and shoulders still against the seat. If they have to lean forward, that is wrong. For non-essential controls, those can require more movement.
Look at even a car's dashboard, it's all vertical, not angled away. Given that I doubt you even drive yet, I am not surprised that you would make such a mistake. Sorry to be harsh but come on man we have given you a ton of references but once again you have ignored all of them.