So one would need to make several different textures for each aspect... on top of a main aztec pattern, one would need to create texture maps of the smaller plates as well...
Perhaps you could show us an image of the materials order of the composite material inside the material editor... to show how they're applied...
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB 1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD 32 GB RAM Windows 11 Pro
So one would need to make several different textures for each aspect... on top of a main aztec pattern, one would need to create texture maps of the smaller plates as well...
Perhaps you could show us an image of the materials order of the composite material inside the material editor... to show how they're applied...
Yes, sorry for that, forgot.
To make this composite material to work, you need to make aztecs and smaller plates images with an alpha channel. Just like you would do for the lettering.
then create a composite material (I used 5 materials, on top of the (white) base material): mataztec.jpg
(as sample here the green aztec), put your aztec image in the opacity slot (now the composite now which part to use), and make your specular color and specular level a mask map (you need this mask, or the whole saucer gets the specularity): matgreenstandard.jpg
In the specular color mask, put the green aztec again, matgreenmask.jpg
However, for the plate maps, what do you mean by gold on blue, and gold on green?
These colors the original painter used are "transparant", so if you paint gold over bleu, the bleu is coming through a bit, giving the gold a bit what different appearence as the gold over green, and so on.
The original painter did lots of these paints layer over layer, getting more tones, I did 5, but you could make more if you want
Depends ofcourse, what do you want, want a 1701 pic like the original looked like on the few pics we have of her, or do you want to have her look like in TMP, where there was a lot less colors to be seen.
These colors the original painter used are "transparant", so if you paint gold over bleu, the bleu is coming through a bit, giving the gold a bit what different appearence as the gold over green, and so on.
The original painter did lots of these paints layer over layer, getting more tones, I did 5, but you could make more if you want
Depends ofcourse, what do you want, want a 1701 pic like the original looked like on the few pics we have of her, or do you want to have her look like in TMP, where there was a lot less colors to be seen.
I'm still not understanding this color over color thing... I'm hung up on that... I think I get that the gold was painted over the blue, but how is that done in Max... I'm confused, lol.
I'll prolly want stick to what she looked like in TMP... of course, I've never seen what the original looked like before that... if I get what you said...
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB 1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD 32 GB RAM Windows 11 Pro
I'm still not understanding this color over color thing... I'm hung up on that... I think I get that the gold was painted over the blue, but how is that done in Max... I'm confused, lol....
Just change the fallof colors a bit, to your liking.
I'll prolly want stick to what she looked like in TMP... of course, I've never seen what the original looked like before that... if I get what you said...
Thank you Willy!! The help is to much appreciated.
IAâll have to study this file for some time, but it will be a learning exercise that surelly will improve my skills.
The composite material doesn't work well with A&D materials, they get brighter for some reason idk, Blend works fine though.
That said, the composite map works fine with A&D/mentalray, and that lets you combine as many layers as you like pretty much like photoshop does with masks and blend modes...using that you don't necessarily need to blend multiple materials at all
Uh yeah I do since with the composite map/shader I cannot control the levels of glossy or other settings within the base mat. Composite material seems to do ok but the method used above doesn't work too well since you cannot opacity map the arch+design, there is cut out but it cuts everything including other materials under the one with the cut map turned on. It just needs some fiddling about to get right. ATM my real issue is setting things up to not look ok at one view but not another.
I have to see if my ver of max and mr does the same thing with arch+design mats in the composite material. If not I could try to live with standard or use another type of mat within mental ray. I didnt notice anything but I did not do any renders of materials outside of the composite next to ones using the composite.
Avoided dling the scene but I will likely have to peek.
Other hard part is I have to keep rendering out animations to test it out. :O
{edit} ok what I had and was unhappy with is damn close to what was in that scene file except the cheater omnis. It is just my rendering set up Lights etc. And the use of cheap ass textures, I used that tile shader to make the random panels for testing sake and those really broke the effect.
Still going to see how I can integrate that normals bump thing Malek mentioned above into this whole thing. I really liked how it caused the light to bounce in a various pattern.
MISC tests I didnt upload here due to updates and other things.
Just the white spec hit on the hull Added grain via fractal so it sorta muddied up the effect, look at the main panels inside that they should brighten and dim randomly, but are vaery faint. Issue I have had is balancing this without making the primary panels a muddy mess.
Oh good greif only one video attached at a time? must be a borked setting from the update?
Composite material seems to do ok but the method used above doesn't work too well since you cannot opacity map the arch+design
MKF - you are using the mia-material ? i don't know how its arranged in MAX, in maya i can put a texture into "Transparency" which is found inside the "Refraction" roll out. (Cutout is found elsewhere in the 'advanced' rollout section) I found this location un-intuitive compared to the nicely ordered attributes in maya's standard shaders. this seems awkward to me, but there it is.
not sure if i'm getting what you're doing with your composite shader right, but maybe this helps?
transparency is just a numerical entry in max, you cannot place a map in there. Cut out affects the stack, IE anything in the composite material below the material with cut out gets cut too.
Placing a map in the "colour" slot works sorta, I know I managed it in the past to do a stencil without using cutout. Attached shows how it is "odd" It appears though to be transparent to other materials so it might work out. I just have not tried anything with arch+design yet since I am working on other things atm. But, yeah that is the approach I was planning to take. I will post a update when I do try though.
I dunno about maya but standard materials in max sorta lack. Reason I moved to mental ray. But a lot of what I like about arch+design is a bit pointless for spaceships, but that little extra is what Im always after.
Oh yeah, nothing saying I cannot mix things up and try a mix of materials. Generally standard will render OK in MR. I think I only had some odd shadow artifacts if I used say MR shadowmaps but I never touch those. I think I might just try this effect on this particular ship, I had only planned to do the normal bump effect. (uss mughi)
Yeah, arch+design in the composite material fails when it comes to things like transparency or other MR related effects. It punches through everything. I have to see if there is a loss of bounced light etc if I just fake it and use standard mats.
Finding other issues, so standard blend etc are not meant to be used in mental ray or with arch+design. With composite material if I drill into the stack to a arch+design material I loose the ability to root back to the composite map.
Other issue is even using nothing but standard materials in the composite material, I get wonky render results. SO yeah uh Im back to what I was doing before all of this.
bummer about max's implementation then, it sounds like. some things it does nice and others not so much. was hoping it was something simple, there's a lot of promise there.
keep at it, i've been watching you build these for a long time, and love your work.
Odd how orange really dark orange shows up bright yellow here. lol Anyhow example of what I am placing on the Mughi's hull. Turning on my environmental stuff on intensifies the effect. SO I think I will set the materials up sans the environ crap since well SPACE, likely anything like a station or planet nebula etc wont clash onto the hull as much as a photograph. Example here is with the enviro maps on. It is part of the mr enviro stuff, could be the cause of that odd blue crap in the last post. I should verify. <_<
[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/onnuopsHnPo[/video]
damnit why isnt it coding right? keep having to reenter the urls.
Posts
Perhaps you could show us an image of the materials order of the composite material inside the material editor... to show how they're applied...
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
Yes, sorry for that, forgot.
To make this composite material to work, you need to make aztecs and smaller plates images with an alpha channel. Just like you would do for the lettering.
then create a composite material (I used 5 materials, on top of the (white) base material):
mataztec.jpg
(as sample here the green aztec), put your aztec image in the opacity slot (now the composite now which part to use), and make your specular color and specular level a mask map (you need this mask, or the whole saucer gets the specularity):
matgreenstandard.jpg
In the specular color mask, put the green aztec again,
matgreenmask.jpg
In the map put the fallof,
matgreenfallof.jpg
in the specular level do the same, but in the map use a noise map, to get some grain,
mataztecspec.jpg
Use this same noise in all the colors, not by copy, but by instance, or it will render forever.
Thanks, well, I'll need to contact Raul to get the smaller plate maps created, because he has the original maps for his ship...
However, for the plate maps, what do you mean by gold on blue, and gold on green?
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
These colors the original painter used are "transparant", so if you paint gold over bleu, the bleu is coming through a bit, giving the gold a bit what different appearence as the gold over green, and so on.
The original painter did lots of these paints layer over layer, getting more tones, I did 5, but you could make more if you want
Depends ofcourse, what do you want, want a 1701 pic like the original looked like on the few pics we have of her, or do you want to have her look like in TMP, where there was a lot less colors to be seen.
I'm still not understanding this color over color thing... I'm hung up on that... I think I get that the gold was painted over the blue, but how is that done in Max... I'm confused, lol.
I'll prolly want stick to what she looked like in TMP... of course, I've never seen what the original looked like before that... if I get what you said...
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
Just change the fallof colors a bit, to your liking.
Yep
Ah, ok.
Well, I'll need to wait on Raul... not sure how to make the small plate maps... I can easily make the aztec green texture...
Also, what was your setting for the noise map to add the grain?
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
Once you see what happens, you will get ideas how to make it better.
Thanks.
I see now.
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
IAâll have to study this file for some time, but it will be a learning exercise that surelly will improve my skills.
That said, the composite map works fine with A&D/mentalray, and that lets you combine as many layers as you like pretty much like photoshop does with masks and blend modes...using that you don't necessarily need to blend multiple materials at all
I have to see if my ver of max and mr does the same thing with arch+design mats in the composite material. If not I could try to live with standard or use another type of mat within mental ray. I didnt notice anything but I did not do any renders of materials outside of the composite next to ones using the composite.
Avoided dling the scene but I will likely have to peek.
Other hard part is I have to keep rendering out animations to test it out. :O
{edit} ok what I had and was unhappy with is damn close to what was in that scene file except the cheater omnis. It is just my rendering set up Lights etc. And the use of cheap ass textures, I used that tile shader to make the random panels for testing sake and those really broke the effect.
Still going to see how I can integrate that normals bump thing Malek mentioned above into this whole thing. I really liked how it caused the light to bounce in a various pattern.
MISC tests I didnt upload here due to updates and other things.
Just the white spec hit on the hull Added grain via fractal so it sorta muddied up the effect, look at the main panels inside that they should brighten and dim randomly, but are vaery faint. Issue I have had is balancing this without making the primary panels a muddy mess.
Oh good greif only one video attached at a time? must be a borked setting from the update?
Stuck the crap on a old model and added some simple falloffs, ehh so, so.
generic panels for the Onumaru
MKF - you are using the mia-material ? i don't know how its arranged in MAX, in maya i can put a texture into "Transparency" which is found inside the "Refraction" roll out. (Cutout is found elsewhere in the 'advanced' rollout section) I found this location un-intuitive compared to the nicely ordered attributes in maya's standard shaders. this seems awkward to me, but there it is.
not sure if i'm getting what you're doing with your composite shader right, but maybe this helps?
Placing a map in the "colour" slot works sorta, I know I managed it in the past to do a stencil without using cutout. Attached shows how it is "odd" It appears though to be transparent to other materials so it might work out. I just have not tried anything with arch+design yet since I am working on other things atm. But, yeah that is the approach I was planning to take. I will post a update when I do try though.
I dunno about maya but standard materials in max sorta lack. Reason I moved to mental ray. But a lot of what I like about arch+design is a bit pointless for spaceships, but that little extra is what Im always after.
Oh yeah, nothing saying I cannot mix things up and try a mix of materials. Generally standard will render OK in MR. I think I only had some odd shadow artifacts if I used say MR shadowmaps but I never touch those. I think I might just try this effect on this particular ship, I had only planned to do the normal bump effect. (uss mughi)
Finding other issues, so standard blend etc are not meant to be used in mental ray or with arch+design. With composite material if I drill into the stack to a arch+design material I loose the ability to root back to the composite map.
Other issue is even using nothing but standard materials in the composite material, I get wonky render results. SO yeah uh Im back to what I was doing before all of this.
keep at it, i've been watching you build these for a long time, and love your work.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/onnuopsHnPo[/video]
damnit why isnt it coding right? keep having to reenter the urls.
RRRRrrrrrrr had to manualy code it wtf really?