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  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Ugh. One at a time. That'd take forever with some ships. That being said, sometimes if I have too big a group of windows in Lightwave, the software goofs on some of the windows. I can't give a number but I have a feeling for when enough is enough.

    I haven't tried any other modeling software enough to have a feeling and be able to compare. This operation works on Blender with very big groups, but it can certainly get nasty if geometry is not dense enough or too dense. Finding the right balance is probably a fine skill that takes years to develop, so I move by optimistic numbers and hope for the best... :sweat_smile:
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    Ugh. One at a time. That'd take forever with some ships. That being said, sometimes if I have too big a group of windows in Lightwave, the software goofs on some of the windows. I can't give a number but I have a feeling for when enough is enough.

    Hey, you never know. Some people like to torture themselves. :lol:
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    Excalibor wrote: »
    Nice. Do you cut your windows one at a time or in groups? I like to do them in groups.

    I usually do it in groups. It's proven challenging in many of my previous models because the boolean operations make it harder to then move all the viewports inwards so there's some kind of indent between the hull and the plexiglass or the transparent aluminium and they are not flushed with the hull---that, or I haven't found a convincing way to move multiple selections along their own normals (I can do with resize, extrude and so, but not move: instead of moving each along their Z axis, it averages all the selections, which is not what's intended in this case). Those three viewports on the Bridge were done as a group and then I managed to get solidify to work for me, so they are slightly indented via operator. If this trick works with the rest, I'll be such a happy camper! :lol: Not that being flush is wrong, but the existing canon models show real viewport modules with rims and indented and thickness and multiple layers. While not going for such amount of detail, some visual cue is nice... :smile:

    In previous models I've done (not yet shown on this forum) I tried a trick that sort of works, because they are less detailed and to be viewed from a bit further away: I grouped all cutters, duplicated the hull, slightly shrank it, intersect them, then difference with the original hull, with the right numbers it kinda worked. Finally, sometimes the knife tool is the solution: mark, extrude, separate, edge split, subd if necessary and material and it works.

    In this Tesla class model, I think I'll go by ranks, as I did on the Fulgor. Those viewport triplets are already a single group. I will look for a better way to handle the direction of the cutters, right now most are horizontal so they are aligned, with such a curvy hull is hard to get them right and snapping wasn't working for me, I still have a lot to learn. The trade-off is that the same cutter produce slightly different viewports, especially in very curved zones. Well, I can accept it in this case, but in others it will probably be unacceptable.

    Also, I do a backup before applying the operators, so I end up with several--many--hidden hulls... That makes the tris count go up quite a bit! :lol: but it makes for an easier recovery when something goes wrong and you failt to see it before saving or going over the undo limit, which is quite easy in Blender because almost anything you do is an operation that goes to the stack.

    Cheers!

    What I do is I make my window cutters slightly larger than the intended window will be. Then I create a copy of the cutters. I do a booleans intersect with one set, creating "plugs" for the holes. I remove all of the faces created for the operation but the ones that are actually part of my hull. Then I use booleans difference to cut the windows into the hull. Once again, I remove the extra faces from the hull. Then I join the "plugs" to the holes and remove any extra verts. At that point, I have a series of windows that are ready to be indented. To do that, I first inset the faces slightly to create some thickness, then a second time to add depth. After that, I do a bevel around the edge and I wind up with a nice window that's inset into the hull with a nice rounded "lip" around it.

    qzxd3kt7brar.png
    ExcaliborwibbleLizzy777
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1188 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,629Member
    Nice work on these ships. I like the interiors and crew figures, too.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Excalibor wrote: »
    Nice. Do you cut your windows one at a time or in groups? I like to do them in groups.

    I usually do it in groups. It's proven challenging in many of my previous models because the boolean operations make it harder to then move all the viewports inwards so there's some kind of indent between the hull and the plexiglass or the transparent alumin(...)/quote]

    What I do is I make my window cutters slightly larger than the intended window will be. Then I create a copy of the cutters. I do a booleans intersect with one set, creating "plugs" for the holes. I remove all of the faces created for the operation but the ones that are actually part of my hull. Then I use booleans difference to cut the windows into the hull. Once again, I remove the extra faces from the hull. Then I join the "plugs" to the holes and remove any extra verts. At that point, I have a series of windows that are ready to be indented. To do that, I first inset the faces slightly to create some thickness, then a second time to add depth. After that, I do a bevel around the edge and I wind up with a nice window that's inset into the hull with a nice rounded "lip" around it.
    (...)

    It's similar to what I'm trying to do, but more elaborated... When you say 'join', do you mean a join operation? The inset and bevel part looks interesting. I did that in another model with a lot of symmetry, but I was actually using geometry to make the viewports, beveling the corner vertices to make them round, then insetting and extruding (intruding?) the actual surfaces that would be the viewports, and sometimes applying a bevel to the "lips", as you say, but I wan't seeing that with this cutter method... I'll investigate it, thanks a lot!

    75gqodfcd2v0.png


    evil_genius_180wibble
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Nice work on these ships. I like the interiors and crew figures, too.

    Thanks! The figures were basically an attempt to have proper sizes, then I started to add some mockups and that's that. In other models I was told my bridge domes were too big, so I started to make them to have some ideas. My bridges tend to be tighter and smaller than TV sets, so I guess all is well... :lol: Anyway, interiors are really hard! I really admire those people making those interiors and bridges, they are amazing!

    Thanks for your kind words! Cheers!
    BolianAdmiral
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    I've done stuff with geometry like that before. Insets for vents, windows and various other things. It definitely gets the job done. :)
    Excalibor wrote: »
    When you say 'join', do you mean a join operation?

    Yeah, select two objects and hit Ctrl+J. Then I go into edit mode and hit Ctrl+A to select all vertices, then Ctrl+M and merge them by distance to get rid of any duplicates caused by the join.

    It's funny because there's a tool in Lightave called "Solid Drill" that I would use to stencil the windows onto the hull, making the whole double booleans and join thing unnecessary. But, I haven't found a tool that works like that in Blender, so I came up with the whole booleans and join thing to kind of do the same thing I did in Lightwave.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    I've done stuff with geometry like that before. Insets for vents, windows and various other things. It definitely gets the job done. :)
    Excalibor wrote: »
    When you say 'join', do you mean a join operation?

    Yeah, select two objects and hit Ctrl+J. Then I go into edit mode and hit Ctrl+A to select all vertices, then Ctrl+M and merge them by distance to get rid of any duplicates caused by the join.

    It's funny because there's a tool in Lightave called "Solid Drill" that I would use to stencil the windows onto the hull, making the whole double booleans and join thing unnecessary. But, I haven't found a tool that works like that in Blender, so I came up with the whole booleans and join thing to kind of do the same thing I did in Lightwave.

    That's interesting, I was thinking about boolean joins... I'll give it a try!

    In the meantime, the Bridge is almost done. Just a few minor tweaks to the Briefing Room windows! A couple of shots n the meantime :smile:

    jqrrt6b089cf.png
    gbq4g8vxxil9.png
    StarCruiserwibbleevil_genius_180Lizzy777
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    Looking good. :+1:

    I always like experimenting with new techniques myself. When I see or hear of a different way of doing things, I like to check it out. Sometimes it winds up being a keeper, sometimes not.
    Excalibor
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1913 CaliforniaPosts: 2,066Member
    The "rubber seal" detail on those windows is awesome.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    The "rubber seal" detail on those windows is awesome.

    Thanks, but I'm afraid I cannot take the credit! :tongue: It's actually the air gap between the outer hull and the Ready Room door. There's plexiglass on both (so it's a double, double window (4 sheets in total)).

    (view from a different angle and with a different light that makes it clearer)
    3i4je405ftsk.png


    But the rubber thing is interesting and poses an interesting question: do they, in the XXV Century, seal viewports with some nanopolimers, advanced resins or do they have a different way? Humm... Food for thought...

    Thanks for your kindness, anyway! Any help to improve will always be welcomed! Cheers!
    evil_genius_180StarCruiserLizzy777
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1913 CaliforniaPosts: 2,066Member
    Yes, in the future it is certainly not plain rubber. But your dark accent makes it pop and our eyes interpret some kind of sealing substance.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Well, and despite all odds against, primary hull viewports done! :-)

    tymrzrva5b54.png
    rp1femexky94.png


    Next, Engineering hull! :lol:
    evil_genius_180StarCruiserLizzy777Brandenberg
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Well, now that the technique is a bit honed, things have gone a bit faster than before. Viewporting finished! :lol:

    (the lit windows are actually leaking light from the deflector and hangar bay, it'll be fixed...)
    qg94p2lgdqmd.png

    And FliOps on the Main Hangar... :-)
    6ocpm70ci5fc.png

    And finally, we start to add registry and name, plus some work on the auxiliary hangar bay and auxiliary LR sensors that complement the ones on the deflector dish.

    qdasn84pcfqd.png

    Just a few more details here and there and we'll be ready for shading and texturing, how cool is that? :-)

    Cheers!

    evil_genius_180StarCruiserwibbleLizzy777Brandenberg
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    It's looking great. I like that front shuttlebay. For smaller ships, having a second deflector makes no sense to me, but a second shuttlebay does make sense.
    Excalibor
  • BlueNeumannBlueNeumann681 Posts: 1,328Member
    As a general rule, I'm not nuts about front-facing shuttlebays, but this ship is so small that it kinda works? Like this feels like a jaunt ship taking specialized minicraft from place to place, instead of a big carrier. I saw a cool render of a lounge that looks out to the Aerowing shuttle in Voyager and I could see something like that in this ship. Could be a low-key party ship, so many of the missions are low-stakes and just taxi service, with so many people coming in and out, that it's just got a real social atmosphere inside. Especially if their quarters are small, might as well hang out in the communal spaces.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    It's looking great. I like that front shuttlebay. For smaller ships, having a second deflector makes no sense to me, but a second shuttlebay does make sense.

    Yes, an auxiliary shuttebay is interesting when there's heavy traffic or in case of damage in the main hangar, at least being able to deploy an additional shuttle seems valuable.

    The secondary sensor makes use of the cavity for the aux bay to enhance LR sensors, but it's not a deflector or anything like that.

    Thanks for your comments!
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    As a general rule, I'm not nuts about front-facing shuttlebays, but this ship is so small that it kinda works? Like this feels like a jaunt ship taking specialized minicraft from place to place, instead of a big carrier. I saw a cool render of a lounge that looks out to the Aerowing shuttle in Voyager and I could see something like that in this ship. Could be a low-key party ship, so many of the missions are low-stakes and just taxi service, with so many people coming in and out, that it's just got a real social atmosphere inside. Especially if their quarters are small, might as well hang out in the communal spaces.

    The Tesla class destroyers are surveyors. They are low profile by their nature and they are less armed than other ships of similar size with a more "busy", but they are sturdy and functional, with quite a small crew, almost half of that in the Intrepid class. That means somewhat bigger quarters, but there's also a lot of equipment, the ORACLE sensor suite needs a lot of power, both in computing and energy.

    There are two big lounges on both sides of deck 4, with big windows and lots of space for social life and an alternative workspace (lots of scientists on these ships!). While they are suited for many types of missions, they are usually the frontier ships, dispatched after the explorers to further map and analyze a new region, or to assess military assets from afar with their low profile and great sensors. Shuttles are part of the planetary survey teams, large parallax measurements and emergency measures. On the Feynman class the aux bay was small, barely to fit a shuttle; on the Tesla is bigger and it has many facilities. It can even serve as a docking platform for a bigger craft or a small ship, like a Runabout. There are docking maroons and the force field and atmosphere can be extended to allow for passage.

    It's more functional, just in case... :smile:

    Thanks for your comments, I like the lounging idea, I think it fits well with this class... Cheers!

  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Well, more little things here and there:

    The mooring of a Runabout at the aux hangar (using the lateral tractor beams) as previously discussed. Runabouts are too big for the ship (the Fulgor class has especially big hangars for a destroyer) but very useful in scientific and survey missions, thus they can use the Tesla class as a touch base for refueling, a bit of R&R and repairs before leaving again.

    1c3shw972iq4.png

    Warp core!

    oq68ludqw3y5.png

    And hull shading, plus targeting sensors and additional 2 point defense drone launchers, a recent addition to the specs (neither the USS Maxwell nor USS Mandelbrot have them yet). Torpedo launchers will be upgraded to quantum flux torpedo launchers, mark II in all models in the near future, although all ships will have both photon and flux torpedoes.

    dr90v106ig9m.png

    Also, proper hangar bay doors... :-)

    pffulz3qzzef.png

    Getting there! I might try to sketch the Briefing Room next... Cheers!
    StarCruiserevil_genius_180BrandenbergLizzy777
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    Looking great.

    You could always do one of those cool under-slung shuttles on the bottom of the saucer, like the Enterprise-E had and like Voyager had, even though they never used the Voyager one. That would be a way to get a runabout-sized ship in there without relying on the shuttlebays.
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Looking great.

    You could always do one of those cool under-slung shuttles on the bottom of the saucer, like the Enterprise-E had and like Voyager had, even though they never used the Voyager one. That would be a way to get a runabout-sized ship in there without relying on the shuttlebays.

    Thanks!

    The Captain's Yatch is something I have always found weird: it's taking up valuable real state while you have mostly empty shuttlebays. In particular, it takes from the planetary dome space on Galaxy, Sovereign and Intrepid, at least, and also from the California-class. Neither the Enterprise-D nor Voyager ever used their yatch, and the Enterprise-E and Cerritos just once. It looks great on screen but it makes little sense if you already have space for shuttles, and it's a good displacement to carry around just for the sake of it. I value better sensors over yet another starship... :-)

    Of course, you are right: it's a way to have a small sized starship without a huge hangar bay. But it's harder to find a motivation in smaller ships. As you can see, a Runabout barely fits through the main hangar bay (and the newer Runabouts will fit better, as they are less tall) but the specs for the smaller ships does not specify a Runabout. Maybe a new starship class in the future can be fit with such type of starship.

    5m9vzx52zmpd.png

    In the Tesla class, the aux hangar bay has a lot of negative space to allow for bigger craft and small ships to moor as an exceptional thing. The ship has enough volume elsewhere for equipment and crew and can afford the design. I don't think we have more than 1 or 2 models with a Yatch, although it might be implicit, especially in those models based on canon ships. But it's not something we have promoted, to be honest. I will have a look, in any case, you've picked my curiosity!

    Thanks for your comments!
    StarCruiserevil_genius_180BrandenbergLizzy777
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    edited June 19 #83
    I actually agree with your thoughts on the under slung ship. Captain's yacht, Aeroshuttle, whatever you want to call it. On massive vessels like the Galaxy or Sovereign classes, I can actually forgive it. There's plenty of hull real estate for things like sensors. The idea that there has to be a sensor there comes from the original Enterprise, because it has a glowing sensor there. But, there are actually a number of ships that don't appear to have a sensor there. The one that makes the least sense to me is the Nova class. That's a tiny ship and, yes, it has a shuttle there. Talk about taking up valuable real estate! Though, at least its planetary sensor is behind the little shuttle.

    You definitely have great ideas and, if they fit your vision of what a ship should be, then you should definitely go with them. I merely suggested the under slung shuttle as a way to get an extra auxiliary ship there. But, it's your ship and if it's not your thing, then it shall not be so.

    Though, I also wouldn't try to fly a shuttle/runabout that large through that opening. It could be a problem, especially if you have to use emergency landing plan B. :lol:
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    I actually agree with your thoughts on the under slung ship. Captain's yacht, Aeroshuttle, whatever you want to call it. On massive vessels like the Galaxy or Sovereign classes, I can actually forgive it. There's plenty of hull real estate for things like sensors. The idea that there has to be a sensor there comes from the original Enterprise, because it has a glowing sensor there. But, there are actually a number of ships that don't appear to have a sensor there. The one that makes the least sense to me is the Nova class. That's a tiny ship and, yes, it has a shuttle there. Talk about taking up valuable real estate! Though, at least its planetary sensor is behind the little shuttle.

    You definitely have great ideas and, if they fit your vision of what a ship should be, then you should definitely go with them. I merely suggested the under slung shuttle as a way to get an extra auxiliary ship there. But, it's your ship and if it's not your thing, then it shall not be so.

    Though, I also wouldn't try to fly a shuttle/runabout that large through that opening. It could be a problem, especially if you have to use emergency landing plan B. :lol:

    Thank you for your kind words! Yes, the planetary dome comes from the Enterprise. It makes sense because standard orbit is not an orbit at all and the ship is usually running parallel to the (distant) ground, which makes maneuvering in the gravity well easier. Explorers want sensors, and thus I put sensors (paraphrasing the Doctor) eeeeverywhere! :lol: In our latest batch, all original and adapted starships have planetary sensor domes, because yeah... ;-) The Nova class has some incongruities, but overall I find it very pleasing and versatile.

    As for the Runabout, the fit is a bit tight, but the tractor beams and those things make it easier. Also, the ship should be running on inertia... And, lastly, that thing is a gross representation for a Runabout (actually a scaled up shuttle, which are also mostly schematic). Real ones should be less bulky, and the newer classes should be more streamlined.

    But, yeah... :# :lol: Thanks a lot for your comments! :3
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    And, well, a Briefing Room (or at least a sketch of one, hehe)

    2qz5a808jobs.png
    0ofolg66ao2q.png


    Still lots to do to make it decent, but I might turn my attention to the hangars, or maybe even let it as is (after some finishing touches here and there), I'm not really sure how much detail I want to add.

    Oh, well... Cheers!
    evil_genius_180StarCruiserBrandenbergLizzy777
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    Well, while I finish some other things, please have a look and admire the amazing artwork that those Briefing Room chairs are: comfly, reassuring, empowering... A classical design anew! Chairs to sit and ponder about the hard issues of life and space... ahem... :lol:

    Interiors are definitely not for me! :lol:

    Here's the Main Hangar: 3 shuttlepods, 3 small shuttles, 1 cargo shuttle and 3 D-Warp shuttles. The Aux hangar will get 1 pod, 1 shuttle and 1 D-Warp. You might not appreciate it, but there's space enough for normal flight operations, parking, repairs... and an additional repair workshop behind the big doors by the far side.

    yot1m035fy4h.png
    0nexrokp07r7.png

    Also, more paint work and details here and there. Pending some small things, I'd say she's almost ready!


    xpqzsiikqhrj.png

    Detail on the final bridge module, with a nice zenith viewport and some extra shield generators... ;-)
    ob67bhnp9ykt.png

    Well, let's see if I manage to finish this one... :-) Cheers!
    evil_genius_180StarCruiser
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    I have just seen Star Trek Prodigy season 2 trail and am I crazy or the new Voyager is very similar to my Tesla class?? It's thinner, the secondary hull seems smaller, and the nacelles are flatter (I don't think they have a clean view from the saucer, which they probably should, oh well...) but the Sovereign class style nacelles, even the front facing hangar bay?? Well, that's cool! :-D

    Some comparison shots of then she leaves the dock (at second 26: ):

    Front:

    qcv8ce7p8gww.png

    Back:
    aotdzatd01hp.png

    I've adjusted the camera to a 28mm focal lenth to match the cinematic lenses. I'd say it's remarkably similar... Darker in color, and with way more greebles, but hey! :lol:

    Anyway, I'll keep working to finish her, as I have a new idea I want to give a shot! Cheers!
    evil_genius_180StarCruiser
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804547 Posts: 11,169Member
    You have to remember with a franchise as long running and beloved as Star Trek, that any design you can come up with has probably been thought of before.
    Excalibor
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    You have to remember with a franchise as long running and beloved as Star Trek, that any design you can come up with has probably been thought of before.

    Nod. But it's cool that I'm basically on the same page, it makes me feel more confident in my instincts :lol: There are incredible designers out there and I aspire to learn from them, it simply made me smile... Can't wait for the season to get released!

    Also, 28mm makes for very dramatic renderings! They don't show the model off as much as 50mm but, oh boy, it gets grandiose! :-D Good light and a cosmic background and you get a winning poster, haha...

    Cheers!
  • ExcaliborExcalibor248 Posts: 69Member
    And to prove my point, some simplistic porter renders... :-)

    r1yazrmlsltv.png
    bhooqs4uxtb7.png

    And +3 Nerd points to the first one to notice "it"... :wink:
    1xkj3hoi0b1j.png

    Cheers!
    evil_genius_180StarCruiser
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