I’ve recently stumbled upon this little documentary:
I believe it’s from the TNG BluRays but I hat never seen it before. Maybe it’s news to some of you, too.
While I’m glad, they didn’t go this route, since the TNG Vfx are still amazing to look at, you’ve got to admire the quality of the CGI. I hat no Idea, that level of quality was even possible back then. The one shot, where you see the briefing room interior and the one wide shot especially.
Would be interesting to see, what TNG with CGI effects from that Era would have actually looked like.
Posts
It did not come on the discs, but available as a free downloads on buying it.
View the video while you still can, as it keeps getting pulled.
I'd never actually seen that before, that was interesting. I read somewhere that they'd tried CGI for the effects, maybe on Memory Alpha.
There‘s also some Test footage out there of the Effects House, that did Enterprise, from when the were competing for doing the TOS remastered VfX. It looked so much better than what CBS‘ in house team did.
I don't understand the exclusive documentary on only Walmart boxed sets. Usually, you get an extra that comes with boxed sets at stores, not an actual different disc. But, it does happen. I got my TNG set from Amazon. I just looked at my boxed set and I definitely don't see that documentary listed. I say this because I've gotten store exclusive stuff off of Amazon before. Back when I bought the Star Trek Online Collector's Edition, I got the Gamestop exclusive boxed set from Amazon.
Then again. Without the formation of CBS Digital we might have never gotten the TNG Remaster, so there’s that. I’d also love to see DS9 in HD but there simply isn’t enough interest there. Especially since the whole thing would be quite a bit more expensive than TNG, which supposedly didn’t sell all that well. Maybe if Netflix does buy the licensing rights, but I don’t see that happening.
I'd imagine TNG didn't sell on Blu-ray as they'd hoped. Blu-ray technology hasn't caught on the way they'd hoped it would. Plus, a lot of people already paid about $100 per season (in the US, I'm not sure how much it was elsewhere) for the DVDs, or bought the whole series later at a reduced price. Asking them to re-buy all of that on Blu-Ray is asking a lot. I only bought that because I got it at a deep discount for an anniversary sale.
Didn’t they use some of the original cgi elements rendered in highere resolution for the DS9 Documentary? Looked great. But even if those were still around, DS9 was ridiculously expensive in its last seasons. In today’s money some of those Dominion War Episodes came to almost 8 Million Dollars. So they reused Shots a lot. I believe, not a single new Battle shot was done for the Season Finale, because there simply wasn’t any money left. So on top of cleaning up the live action elements, up scaling the video material and redoing/recompositing the original vfx shots, you’d have to so some completely new battle scenes for those parts of the show (at least I believe, you should; would be a great selling point, too)
So yeah ... likely never. That’s, what frustrates me so much about the new shows. They have the budget and the artistry (at least Discovery does) and they waste it on this uninspired mess.
Would be interesting to know, how much money a remaster costs compared to a season of let’s say Picard. I mean they would get a lot of People watching, if they were to do DS9 and especially Voyager and release them at a rate of say two episodes a week. I don’t live in the US but I would totally pay for CBS AA, in that case. Maybe combined with an Aftershow for the Episodes and a small making of (Doctor Who confidential, if anyone remembers those) ... you’d get all the people hating on CBS right now on board immediately and keep them paying for a good 3 years. There has to be money in that 🤔
Walmart paid extra to have that as an exclusive.
@P5ych0p4th there is a demand for DS9 in HD or even 4K. The problem is the only way for CBS to get the money back on doing the remastering is from physical media. Which people are not buying anymore.
Though that might change. With Disney making changes to classic films (they CG longer hair to cover Daryl Hannah Bum in Splash as she running into the water.)
Then you got Amazon being taken to court for removing content people have paid for. Though it does state in there T&T that any digital content you "buy" is not yours to own, it is only available to you while Amazon has the rights to have it on their service. So in another words your just renting it. Makes the case for keeping Physical Media around.
As for the issue of the CG element being lost for DS9, that not the case. Even though Digital Muse is closed. The artists that worked on the show kept all the files.
It just a case of CBS finding them all. Though I understand that when the documentary was being made. Ira Steven Behr was offered any file for the CG elements he need. But there was about a dozen that could not be found.
So if they where to do a remastering of DS9, those elements would have to be recreated.
I don't see it happening anytime soon. But I understand Paramount is thinking about Remastering all it back catalogue of films so they can be preserved and future proofing them.
With Paramount and CBS now being back under one roof and DS9 being a Paramount Production. It could happen.
I just hope it sooner than later.
Ah, I see. The digital code extras.
@Freak ... you know ... I don't think that's the case. The suits at Viacom might think that but I don't believe it to be true. Streaming Services obiously make money, that they put in new productions. Getting and keeping subscribers is a little more dificult, that generating money form sales, but both obviously works.
So a deal, where CBS remasters the shows, and Netflix pais money for the international distribution should more than cover the costs, especially if you spread the release out over 2 or 3 Years (it's 14 Seasons of TV after all). And with a making of/aftershow there's even potential to sell Ad-Space for even more money.
Now ... my background is in law (with a little philosophy and medicine), not in economics, so I can't actually calculate this. But given, how streaming generates money and that this should still be cheaper than an actual new season of a show, it should work even on the economic side of things.
Not to mention the ammount of good will you'd get from all the fans that have a problem, with all those Kurtzman-produced shows.
Here and in the UK we got Netflix and Amazon Prime being the most popular. Then you got NOWTV which has everything that Sky shows. plus Disney+ and Britbox and that lunched this year.
Speaking about CBS content appearing on Netflix. There is a rumour flying around that Netflix could be buying ViacomCBS, given that it stoke and fallen so far, and the debt they are in. It means there assets are worthless at the moment.
Netflix won't buy it outright just the bit and peace's they want, a bit like what Disney did with FOX. Midnight Edge did a video on this last week.
If Netflix does pick and chose what they want from ViacomCBS, it means they don't have to honour any current contracts. So it would be bye bye Kurtzman. If they buy it out right, they do have to honour the contracts.
On a side note, I have checked Bluray.com and it is showing that Paramount has realised a bunch of classic 80's movies in 4K. So you never know about DS9 or Voyager getting remastered.
The movies up, to Frist Contact should be pretty easy to do in 4K. Just some cleanup and you‘re good to go. Maybe some CGI on the TMO Directors Cut. Insurrection end Nemesis already don‘t hold up that well, when it comes to the CGI, so they probably need a little more Work for a 4K release.
Then again ... I think almost no one is really buying 4K Discs 🤷🏻♂️
The only reason no one is buying 4K is that there are not to many player out there.
That could change at the end of the year with Sony realising the PS5.
Most people I know who buy 4k brds instantly crack and rip them to a NAS for playback to get around all the annoying DRM crap. Watching a proper 4k everything film as a remuxed not recompressed rip is something else. Sadly a lot of films are still upscales or have SFX upscaled as most of that is rendered out to the film 2k format. (this is not 2560X1440 but 2048X1080)
I am not sure how many of the old trek films would hold or take too good to 4k. Maybe the 4k and hdr format could carry more of the films color for a richer level of color and tonal range etc. I would probably spring for a decent directors cut of them in 4k or least a remastering of them with a 4k pallette/hdr color depth even if the video content is 1080p.
PS5 wont change this stupidity, that is IF it even will have a disc player in it.
I think FI folded soon after ENT.
Eden FX did a sampler of TOS remastered. CBS blew it off as too expensive to do as a contract. Doug worked for the design team. So no he was not part of that. BUT he did do a Connie as a proposal. This is the one he built TO scale with the 11footer. Least I think it was built for the TOSR proposal. I think eden did the work after as a example of what they would have done vs a proposal to CBS.
hate this site but it has the best article on the edenFX stuff
https://trekmovie.com/2006/09/08/more-images-from-edenfx/
FI assets well, some people have them. Well models not scene builds and render projects. If anything they would have to reconstruct everything from scratch in a similar way they did for the tng brds where shots were not around or they added to or altered stock footage. So if they had all the models redoing all the animations and scene files would be a issue.
The DS9 sfx in the doc what we left behind was done by IRML if I remember right. It was not made with CBS assets or anything relating to DS9 original content. You can find it all on youtube.
[video]
[video]
not sure if he used assets from the show, you could just pm him and ask I guess. >_> I think he just made them or borrowed them from someone.
What don‘t you like about trekmovie.com, if you don’t mind me asking?
Also for some reason I keep thinking eden FX sprouted from FI or am I wrong? Too long ago to remember lol.
Ah fing google!
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Eden_FX
HEH watching TNG s7, tiz a crushy grainfest. Forgot so much carpet was all so 90s mauve! Need to screen cap a mess of this crap for my galaxy! I miss the 90s a lot but I do not miss the house color schemes and furnish fittings all that ugly gold tan mint-green and mauve. . . heh. The talk about it relax no jarring colors era. . . lol. As chyrosran22 on yt says HEEEEEDDDDIIOUSSSS
Yeah, their articles seem a bit biased, I give you that. However I‘ve written some long comments on how I don‘t like Picard or Discovery, that were certainly debated but not censored or anything.
As for how civil the discussion is ... well most online communities are pretty toxic, especially when it comes to fandom. Really sad to see really.
On the TNG aesthetic ... while the Color schemes don‘t hold up, most of the interiors still look pretty futuristic. You have to give it to the production designers, to get that part right (Herman Zimmerman, I believe). It‘s so hard, to give a SciFi show that timeless look, that still looks futuristic even 30 years down the line. Especially most shows and movies in the 70s failed hard on that front 😁
And who knows ... maybe mauve will make a HUGE comeback in the 2360s 😜
Yeah it just had hints at the era. I think it was only in early season 1 eps that one hall that had the alcoves and seats in that had anything really strong of the early mid 90s flair as well as that touch of late 80s. I cannot find a pic but it was a intersecting hall off the main corridors for quarters. It likely got redressed early on. But it had some of that gross patterned fabric that was very early 90s. Actually lived in a flat that in the lobby they had couches with that fabric on.
TNG and alter trek I think avoided the niche fads by always looking at the newest tech fabrics and the like. Instead of going wild with trends in furnishings. As for the set designs I think the neutral colors help in that regard also cannot go wrong with grey accents. That and TNG went on air just before the huge mid 90s push for alot of the horrid design choices of that era. Think HOMETIME tv show as that introduced so much of that look. Fake marble walls, gold trimmed shower stalls and molded carpet. The light oak finish wood trim.
Given how all this pseudo retro is so in now mixing 50s and 70s stuff and early 80s nostalgia by kids who were born after the century mark the whole 90s watered down style might return in a few years. lol
Im shocked I do not see kids running about with NEON clothes and BA surf tshirts. heh I so remember that fad neon silkscreens and those surf shirts. Back when logos and brand identifiers were king and of social value.
@MadKoiFish as for your question on the PS5 having a disk drive. Yeah it will and the bluray player will be 4K. Also as it uses the same architecture as the PS4, it will be backwards compatible. I just hope it will work of the PS4 Discs so you don't have rebuy the games digitally.
We should find out more about in the next few months as it planned for release at the end of the year.
With Disney cutting or digital altering films scenes from films and the Digital content you think your are buying from Amazon being taken away. I can see people going back to physical media even if it just to rip it.
I just found out that even though Disney gave Daryl Hannah longer hair to cover her bum as she runs into the water in Splash. They have not edited X-Men: Days of Future Past, where you get to see Hugh Jackman bum. So they are not consistence on what there are changing.
Only way to really save it is to dump all the consumer abuse with drm macrovision and region crap and just release it. People ripping or sharing the content will happen no matter what. Hell if anything the DRM drives it. Punishing the abiding purchaser is not a way to sell a product. But there is more motivation to make physical media more annoying to push streams and non physical media resources as it costs far less and soon is going to cost the consumer just as much or more.
Oh also the latter TNG films are all likely only 2k. They would have to re-scan them or even re composite them to 4k. I would have to recheck things but I think only generations was mostly optical printing after that it was all digital. Meaning it is stuck at whatever rez it was mastered to in digital. Either case CBS would likely do what most companies have done and upscale the 2k and make "fake" 4k releases.
Reason why I did not pick them up on Blu-rays.
When Paramount now releasing it back catalogue in 4K. It will be interesting to know if they have up scaled it or remastered it.
https://4kmedia.org/real-or-fake-4k/
https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/
https://real4kbluray.com/
though there are things to consider such as HDR etc. As a HDR fake4k might look better than a 1080p brd without. It is one major reason people feel ripped about 4k as the fake thing is now a trope so even if all new stuff is not upscaled, well. heh.
Also these lists mostly only refer to the final master not any possible upscales in production. Such as sfx rendering rez. Also left out is the scaling method some are good some are terrible. Some sharp others fuzzy but worse are ones with temporal artifacting noise of grime in moving objects.
There is one site I saw that listed a more detailed breakdown such as shot in X system and camera edited in X sfx rendered at X etc. Been looking for it for the last few days now ran across it 5 or 6 mo ago when I was making a list of films for a want list.
Older shows I have taken to visiting rip sites to dl samples or view screen shots as those often show if the grading is ok or what level of quality is there. Some films just do not do so well. Same goes for 1080p stuff. Some of those older 80s~90s action flicks just look horrible. heh. I think it was young guns or something the brd was really yellow and so full of inverted grain vs the dvd. While others like outerlimits are worth getting as most of the eps are fairly good for the time.