See that part I sort of assumed, but was always confused about the fake horseshoe they had, it looked almost like they just put a long table up, kept the shots really close, shaking, and blurry and hope no one would notice
It did curve to some extent, though it didn't touch the floor - there were supports on both ends of it (if they did make it with both ends or just did part of one).
The only real reference to go on would be the screencaps at ds9.trekcore.com which has ones for "The Jem'Hadar."
They did have the central element of the horseshoe, but only that. Indeed on both sides it just continues parallel to the floor. it's a really weird shape because it curved a bit at the center, but then it just stops...
For references, I'll be using pretty much all the set appearances Rusty mentioned. I found some set blueprints of the Romulan redress, so that'll be my main resource when it comes to measurements. The parts that were seen on screen, will be as accurate as possible to the set. For the viewscreen, we might extend it a bit and make it a bit more Galaxy-like. Otherwise it's a really cramped set with some forward consoles added in, considering that the Captain's chair is a lot closer to the viewscreen than on the Saratoga/Prometheus
It goes beyond saying, any behind the scenes photos or info will be greatly appreciated for this one. This is the rough idea of it right now:
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Oh, wow... the Odyssey! I will be very interested in how this takes shape! I'm very curious to know what you'll end up using for references, since I've never seen that photo of the Captain and the yellow-shirted officer before... where's that pic from? I always loved how the Odyssey kept the 1701-D/Yamato tactical horseshoe - or at least the base of it.
Hmm, yeah that is cramped isn't it! Maybe it's really the battle bridge....
Personally as a main bridge I think I'd probably have done away with the set blueprint from the outer edges of the aft consoles, instead merging it with the traditional layout at those points (so port and starboard of the consoles would be the standard turbolift/exit alcoves with padding etc). Just my take on it though.
This photo isn't cropped at the top and you can see how the "horseshoe" seems to be straight at the center, like the standing consoles behind Riker and Troi seen on the Enterprise-E, and has a sharp bend to give it a "horseshoe" feel. See my crude rendering
I took some screenshots that I think will help, I wish they would have gave the episode a different name... "The Jem'Hadar" doesn't make for easy searches.
I just love that they gave the Odyssey's Captain the 1st season TNG chair instead of the later version. I never liked the one with the lights on the armrests.
I just love that they gave the Odyssey's Captain the 1st season TNG chair instead of the later version. I never liked the one with the lights on the armrests.
Funny, I'm the other way around about command chairs.
But the command chair that Keogh used was originally made for the Enterprise-D battle bridge. It went on to be the command chair for numerous guest bridges.
From this Trekcore screencap (I could be wrong though), the rail does curve a bit:
Hehe, looks like Captain Keogh loves to do weird faces, I particularly love this one.
@BolianAdmiral: The picture of the captain and second officer is from the Fact Files. I've read the script of the episode, and apparently there's a deleted scene where both the first and second officers had lines. It was re-shot to give all the lines to the XO (maybe the actress wasn't very good, IDK). This is why some of the dialogue seems weird on the episode. For example, the XO says "Shields up, going to red alert", but on the script "shields up" part was said by the second officer. I've been trying to find if this deleted scene exists somewhere but I have had no luck yet.
Lt.Washburn of The Fleet Workshop sent me these pretty cool behind the scenes photos of the Saratoga and Prometheus bridges, which are proving to be quite useful:
The viewscreen area looks to be a lot bigger than it seems on the episodes. This is probably because we never see the viewscreen from any angle other than really up close or from behind the conn/ops consoles, so it seems to be much smaller than it really is. As you'll see on the renders below, I haven't even started with this area, I'll do a quick test to try and match the full set, and see how cramped it really is, I have a feeling it'll be more spacious than we anticipated.
I've been focusing mostly on the horseshoe (well, I guess it's not really a horseshoe...) for now. This is how I've interpreted the design. it's not finished yet as the side stands are missing, but the general shape is in place. it's curved horizontally, but it's elevation doesn't change. I've also done the basic shape of the bridge, particularly the back area, but it's still very rough at this stage.
For all my finished Trek fan art, please visit my portfolio
Okey, wasn't entirely sure on the scale I was using for the bridge, so I picked up a blueprint of Stage 18 during DS9's run, found out how much the stage measured, and then adjusted my bridge accordingly. It ended up being a lot bigger than before, and now it fits in a lot better with screenshots from the episodes. Also, the conn/ops consoles appear to fit very comfortably in there in the end.
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Nice, although I don't think I'll ever be able to "see" it in my mind as the Main Bridge
Feel a bit sorry for the 1st and 2nd officers with their views obstructed like that. Are they going to get consoles? Don't think we ever saw far down enough onscreen to discount the possibility...
@Rekkert Great work with the "horseshoe", it looks awesome, personally I prefer it to the horseshoe of the other Galaxy class bridges.
@Starscream They would have a bad view, maybe the forward stations could be on a placed on a lower elevation and add some steps like on Voyager's bridge. I don't think the 1st and 2nd officers had consoles. When the ship goes to red alert the 1st officer gets up to man the port side horseshoe station. The chairs seem to be there for when the ship isn't in a "situation." The second officer was also the chief tactical officer, she was seen in the deleted scene photo, I think we can assume she got up and maned the starboard horseshoe station after going to red alert just as the 1st officer got up.
I'm with Starscream and JMP11 about the idea of putting the command seating on a raised level. I always thought that was the case.
As with you, Starscream, yeah it would definitely work better as a battle bridge. One of my next requests for Rekkert is the USS Galaxy's battle bridge, and I had been wrestling between different configurations, and I currently am leaning toward a variation of this bridge (sans rail, with Hathaway-style command seating).
Regarding the size of the bridge, yeah it's smaller than the regular Galaxy bridge, but it has almost the same number of stations (10 versus 11 on the Enterprise, the battle bridge on the other hand only has 6 or 5 stations on the appearances it had).
Regarding the views of the first and second officers is a lot better than on the regular Galaxy Class bridge. If we assume the viewscreen to be like on the Excelsior/Saratoga/Prometheus, then the center of the viewscreen is unobstructed. On the Enterprise-D on the other hand, a bigger percentage of the viewscreen is obstructed, and closer to the center of it. While it wasn't shown on TV, the exact same problem happens in both Voyager and Defiant, as they both have the helm leveled with the viewscreen, and hence obstruct the other station's views.
At the same time, as JMP11 said, the stations for the XO and second officer are on the horseshoe, and once they get there they can see the viewscreen very clearly.
If we want to stick to the episode, then raising the command chairs isn't an option as they were shown to be on the base level (it's easier to see both when the XO sits down and when he stands up). We could lower the forward stations a step, it would look this way:
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@Rekkert I like the forward stations on a lower level and with the view-screen pushed out more it should work. As it is now,
if the captain is sitting in the command chair it looks like it would be a tight fit to walk between the captain's chair and the step.
That's a cool perspective seeing what the first officer would see. I feel like the Odyssey's bridge could have been a redesign by Starfleet engineers because the previous galaxy class design was a bit too wide open.
@Rekkert If we keep the con/helm consoles on the same level and push the view screen out a little, could a half of an aft workstation (see below) be added to the port and starboard walls between the view-screen and exits?
Okey, I had to move the captain's chair forward to make it more accurate to the set. I've lowered the forward stations and moved the viewscreen half a meter forward. I also thought about tilting the stations a bit, as in early TNG (or as in the USS Saratoga), what do you think?
EDIT: Just saw your second post JMP11. Given the shape of the bridge (wider at the back) it's impossible to fit that console at the front, no matter how forward we move the viewscreen. The frontal section would have to be modified to give the bridge an hourglass shape in order to accommodate that station. I could make it work, but it would end up feeling very claustrophobic rather than more open.
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I'm with Rekkert re: lowering the forward consoles. It helps eliminate that (surprisingly little!) restricted view of the viewscreen, while making the bridge that bit more interesting vertically.
As far as the consoles being behind the Exec and Tactical officer, JMP11, it's unergonomic to force them to get up and go round everytime they'd need to check the slightest blinky light, or new piece of subspace comms traffic - and if the second officer is also their tactical/security chief, it simply makes no sense to have her sitting on her butt all day staring at the back of the ops officer's head. As we never saw that far down, I do think an case could be made to put some form of variant consoles in -- especially as you're likewise modifying the unseen forward bridge.
On a separate note, I really, really wish they hadn't had to go down the cheap route of re-using Enterprise-A butresses and consoles for this bridge; it was such a glaringly obvious anachronism everytime they pulled those same bits out of storage for TNG-era Ships of the Week.
Rusty I look forward to seeing your take on a Battle Bridge! :thumb:
@Rekkert I see what you're saying about the console not fitting, but maybe a flat wall panel console could fit there when you get to that point? Like what was seen in "Future Imperfect," as seen below.
I like the ops/helm stations in the second picture, it seems more open and I think it's better to place the crew members at an angle to the captain. Therefore, the captain isn't giving orders to the back of an crew member's head.
@Starscream I think the seat is mostly for the 1st officer when the ship is not in a serious situation. The only real time we saw Riker use the little console was when the ship was at red alert. I think the second chair is for more if the counselor, the doctor, an admiral, or ambassador are present on the bridge. The 2nd officer my use it when on the bridge outside of their normal duty shift when the ship isn't on high alert. But adding two little consoles would be a something to take a look at before the deciding on the final look.
@Rekkert - yeah sinking the Conn and Ops stations lower is a good idea as well as angling them a la 1st season Enterprise-D and Saratoga.
@Starscream - I have had quite a few concepts in my mind for the USS Galaxy's battle bridge. Heck, not quite sure what to go with here. One of my other ideas would be the rear half of the bridge emulating the Enterprise-A bridge from "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, with the forward part being a bit more like the battle bridges we saw for the Enterprise-D in Farpoint, Arsenal, and BOBW (though with the Trek VI viewer but instead of a clock above the viewer, it would be an alert flasher), and aqua upholstery/panels instead of dark red of course. Not to mention era-appropriate LCARS of course.
@JMP11 - I see where you're going, with those side bulkhead panels. Those would work pretty well with the Odyssey in my opinion.
@Starscream: Regarding the re-use of the Enterprise-A bridge, yeah, it made sense for the Miranda-Class Saratoga, but then it's completely out of place on the Nebula/Galaxy... Now that I think about it, as those consoles were later reused on the Enterprise-E, it looks as if the original Galaxy-Class design (aka the Enterprise-D bridge) fell out of favor and more classic components started getting used more and more (Prometheus, Nova, Sovereign bridges, all feature these stations).
@JMP11: A flat access panel like that could work well on the side wall, I'll keep it in mind for when I flesh out the forward section of the bridge.
Regarding the lack of a console for the 1st and 2nd officers, it's certainly not ideal or practical, but then again we see it several times on Trek, not to mention that a lot of Captain's chairs have no panels as well (including here on the Odyssey), so the Captain can do nothing other than bark orders. I came to the conclusion that, depending on the command style of each Captain, they would prefer to carry around with them a PADD at all times, to access the ship's systems, and hence would have no need for consoles at their chairs. Maybe the same could be the case here for the XO/2nd officer? And again, when the situation demands better access, we see them both stand up and use the consoles behind their seats. Definitely different to what we're used to, but then again that's par for the course with this bridge!
@Rusty0918: Haha, a lot of ideas you have mate! Maybe a bridge in this style, with the Hattaway style arrangement could become the Reliant bridge you wanted to do so long ago?
I've started work on the aft consoles. I could only find blueprints for the aforementioned Enterprise-E stage of these consoles, but they should be the same. Still, a lot to be done in that area.
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@Rekkert - Yeah, PADDs - never thought of that. That actually would make quite a bit of sense, especially in our Wi-Fi culture. Though I think the idea of the first and second officers running back and forth to those chairs to behind the rail isn't very practical. I have to say, my idea for the command seating for the Galaxy bridge (full-length consoles for 'em) is the most practical and most functional. Then again, I probably think things out better than the producers do.
Rusty you're not alone on the central consoles - it's something I too had had in mind many moons ago for changes to the E-D bridge, if it had survived Generations!
Regarding the Battle Bridge, thinking on it further I reckon your color scheme would actually look awesome with a version of the bridge we saw in BoBW - the cool grey lends itself well to that set IMO - and the Hathaway seating config likewise worked well there. Rekkert could pimp out the consoles with the teal leather trim and padding/lighting, throw in some standalone consoles, and that would fit pretty perfect with the clean utilitarian look of your other sets!
Rekkert your mention of the Sovereign brought something to mind about the Odyssey bridge: The thick black line on the tactical rail reminds me of the unfortunate black tape "detailing" they initially had on E-E consoles, before they went for a more refined look. As this is a "late TNG" Galaxy, have you and JMP11 considered adding more of the E-E styling? Such as the handgrip rails from Nemesis, lighting fixtures, console detailing, rich creamy (Corinthian!) leather padding, etc...
@Starscream E-E styling, I think, would be a step too far. I would like to look more towards ST: Generations for styling, adding recessed lighting around steps, and maybe placing vertical handle bars near exits, and "grid" lighting as seen in the refitted Enterprise-D bridge.
Cool For the record I'm not a fan of the E-E stylings (I prefer the Generations bridge too!), but thought I'd ask what with the black striping and rear consoles. :thumb:
Posts
It did curve to some extent, though it didn't touch the floor - there were supports on both ends of it (if they did make it with both ends or just did part of one).
The only real reference to go on would be the screencaps at ds9.trekcore.com which has ones for "The Jem'Hadar."
That said, Rekkert will you be rigidly adhering to the (barely-seen!) onscreen set, or do you have leeway to make it more Galaxy-esque on this one?
For references, I'll be using pretty much all the set appearances Rusty mentioned. I found some set blueprints of the Romulan redress, so that'll be my main resource when it comes to measurements. The parts that were seen on screen, will be as accurate as possible to the set. For the viewscreen, we might extend it a bit and make it a bit more Galaxy-like. Otherwise it's a really cramped set with some forward consoles added in, considering that the Captain's chair is a lot closer to the viewscreen than on the Saratoga/Prometheus
It goes beyond saying, any behind the scenes photos or info will be greatly appreciated for this one. This is the rough idea of it right now:
Personally as a main bridge I think I'd probably have done away with the set blueprint from the outer edges of the aft consoles, instead merging it with the traditional layout at those points (so port and starboard of the consoles would be the standard turbolift/exit alcoves with padding etc). Just my take on it though.
This photo isn't cropped at the top and you can see how the "horseshoe" seems to be straight at the center, like the standing consoles behind Riker and Troi seen on the Enterprise-E, and has a sharp bend to give it a "horseshoe" feel. See my crude rendering
Horseshoe.jpg
Bridge 1 (1).jpg
Bridge 1 (2).jpg
Bridge 1 (4).jpg
Bridge 1 (3).jpg
Bridge 1 (5).jpg
Funny, I'm the other way around about command chairs.
But the command chair that Keogh used was originally made for the Enterprise-D battle bridge. It went on to be the command chair for numerous guest bridges.
From this Trekcore screencap (I could be wrong though), the rail does curve a bit:
I can't stop laughing at this picture.
Looks like someone's tryin' to squeeze out a Captain's Log...
@BolianAdmiral: The picture of the captain and second officer is from the Fact Files. I've read the script of the episode, and apparently there's a deleted scene where both the first and second officers had lines. It was re-shot to give all the lines to the XO (maybe the actress wasn't very good, IDK). This is why some of the dialogue seems weird on the episode. For example, the XO says "Shields up, going to red alert", but on the script "shields up" part was said by the second officer. I've been trying to find if this deleted scene exists somewhere but I have had no luck yet.
Lt.Washburn of The Fleet Workshop sent me these pretty cool behind the scenes photos of the Saratoga and Prometheus bridges, which are proving to be quite useful:
The viewscreen area looks to be a lot bigger than it seems on the episodes. This is probably because we never see the viewscreen from any angle other than really up close or from behind the conn/ops consoles, so it seems to be much smaller than it really is. As you'll see on the renders below, I haven't even started with this area, I'll do a quick test to try and match the full set, and see how cramped it really is, I have a feeling it'll be more spacious than we anticipated.
I've been focusing mostly on the horseshoe (well, I guess it's not really a horseshoe...) for now. This is how I've interpreted the design. it's not finished yet as the side stands are missing, but the general shape is in place. it's curved horizontally, but it's elevation doesn't change. I've also done the basic shape of the bridge, particularly the back area, but it's still very rough at this stage.
Feel a bit sorry for the 1st and 2nd officers with their views obstructed like that. Are they going to get consoles? Don't think we ever saw far down enough onscreen to discount the possibility...
@Starscream They would have a bad view, maybe the forward stations could be on a placed on a lower elevation and add some steps like on Voyager's bridge. I don't think the 1st and 2nd officers had consoles. When the ship goes to red alert the 1st officer gets up to man the port side horseshoe station. The chairs seem to be there for when the ship isn't in a "situation." The second officer was also the chief tactical officer, she was seen in the deleted scene photo, I think we can assume she got up and maned the starboard horseshoe station after going to red alert just as the 1st officer got up.
As with you, Starscream, yeah it would definitely work better as a battle bridge. One of my next requests for Rekkert is the USS Galaxy's battle bridge, and I had been wrestling between different configurations, and I currently am leaning toward a variation of this bridge (sans rail, with Hathaway-style command seating).
Regarding the views of the first and second officers is a lot better than on the regular Galaxy Class bridge. If we assume the viewscreen to be like on the Excelsior/Saratoga/Prometheus, then the center of the viewscreen is unobstructed. On the Enterprise-D on the other hand, a bigger percentage of the viewscreen is obstructed, and closer to the center of it. While it wasn't shown on TV, the exact same problem happens in both Voyager and Defiant, as they both have the helm leveled with the viewscreen, and hence obstruct the other station's views.
At the same time, as JMP11 said, the stations for the XO and second officer are on the horseshoe, and once they get there they can see the viewscreen very clearly.
If we want to stick to the episode, then raising the command chairs isn't an option as they were shown to be on the base level (it's easier to see both when the XO sits down and when he stands up). We could lower the forward stations a step, it would look this way:
if the captain is sitting in the command chair it looks like it would be a tight fit to walk between the captain's chair and the step.
That's a cool perspective seeing what the first officer would see. I feel like the Odyssey's bridge could have been a redesign by Starfleet engineers because the previous galaxy class design was a bit too wide open.
Half Station.jpg
EDIT: Just saw your second post JMP11. Given the shape of the bridge (wider at the back) it's impossible to fit that console at the front, no matter how forward we move the viewscreen. The frontal section would have to be modified to give the bridge an hourglass shape in order to accommodate that station. I could make it work, but it would end up feeling very claustrophobic rather than more open.
As far as the consoles being behind the Exec and Tactical officer, JMP11, it's unergonomic to force them to get up and go round everytime they'd need to check the slightest blinky light, or new piece of subspace comms traffic - and if the second officer is also their tactical/security chief, it simply makes no sense to have her sitting on her butt all day staring at the back of the ops officer's head.
On a separate note, I really, really wish they hadn't had to go down the cheap route of re-using Enterprise-A butresses and consoles for this bridge; it was such a glaringly obvious anachronism everytime they pulled those same bits out of storage for TNG-era Ships of the Week.
Rusty I look forward to seeing your take on a Battle Bridge! :thumb:
I like the ops/helm stations in the second picture, it seems more open and I think it's better to place the crew members at an angle to the captain. Therefore, the captain isn't giving orders to the back of an crew member's head.
@Starscream I think the seat is mostly for the 1st officer when the ship is not in a serious situation. The only real time we saw Riker use the little console was when the ship was at red alert. I think the second chair is for more if the counselor, the doctor, an admiral, or ambassador are present on the bridge. The 2nd officer my use it when on the bridge outside of their normal duty shift when the ship isn't on high alert. But adding two little consoles would be a something to take a look at before the deciding on the final look.
18-futureimperfect.jpg
@Starscream - I have had quite a few concepts in my mind for the USS Galaxy's battle bridge. Heck, not quite sure what to go with here. One of my other ideas would be the rear half of the bridge emulating the Enterprise-A bridge from "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, with the forward part being a bit more like the battle bridges we saw for the Enterprise-D in Farpoint, Arsenal, and BOBW (though with the Trek VI viewer but instead of a clock above the viewer, it would be an alert flasher), and aqua upholstery/panels instead of dark red of course. Not to mention era-appropriate LCARS of course.
@JMP11 - I see where you're going, with those side bulkhead panels. Those would work pretty well with the Odyssey in my opinion.
@JMP11: A flat access panel like that could work well on the side wall, I'll keep it in mind for when I flesh out the forward section of the bridge.
Regarding the lack of a console for the 1st and 2nd officers, it's certainly not ideal or practical, but then again we see it several times on Trek, not to mention that a lot of Captain's chairs have no panels as well (including here on the Odyssey), so the Captain can do nothing other than bark orders. I came to the conclusion that, depending on the command style of each Captain, they would prefer to carry around with them a PADD at all times, to access the ship's systems, and hence would have no need for consoles at their chairs. Maybe the same could be the case here for the XO/2nd officer? And again, when the situation demands better access, we see them both stand up and use the consoles behind their seats. Definitely different to what we're used to, but then again that's par for the course with this bridge!
@Rusty0918: Haha, a lot of ideas you have mate! Maybe a bridge in this style, with the Hattaway style arrangement could become the Reliant bridge you wanted to do so long ago?
I've started work on the aft consoles. I could only find blueprints for the aforementioned Enterprise-E stage of these consoles, but they should be the same. Still, a lot to be done in that area.
Regarding the Battle Bridge, thinking on it further I reckon your color scheme would actually look awesome with a version of the bridge we saw in BoBW - the cool grey lends itself well to that set IMO - and the Hathaway seating config likewise worked well there.
Rekkert your mention of the Sovereign brought something to mind about the Odyssey bridge: The thick black line on the tactical rail reminds me of the unfortunate black tape "detailing" they initially had on E-E consoles, before they went for a more refined look. As this is a "late TNG" Galaxy, have you and JMP11 considered adding more of the E-E styling? Such as the handgrip rails from Nemesis, lighting fixtures, console detailing, rich creamy (Corinthian!) leather padding, etc...