3D1701 Enterprise TOS build

MadKoiFish

Well I wanted to join in with a tribute render I knew I wouldn't have time to paint anything so I decided a TOS CONNIE would do, but found either most of the max models open with shifted open loops IE if the mesh has open edges and is old it will often move those arbitrarily. I found one on trekmeshes, while it was much cleaner I had issues with the materials being scanline and they took FOREVER to render in mental ray. So instead of arguing with it I thought LETS RETEXTURE IT. . . . well needless to say I got a good portion done then realized I started fixing geometry somewhere along the line. IE Changing up proportions on the bridge to match the 11 foot photos, (it matched most of the blueprints with a shallow sensor dome and taller bridge) altering lights in structure to do what I want for surfacing and efx. So with that I thought well instead of altering someone's model then chasing permission or even the ethics of fooling with someone's model so much i decided I will just build my OWN. This way I can have it in my own workflow process have it properly scaled (one I had was like 45ft long) And have it so it will render nicely with my other meshes and on the same gamma and exposure set up. I normally stay WAY FAR AWAY from clone modeling of canon ships due to the neckbeard levels of pixel counting and other insane silly methods but well heck I could use a canon TOS connie, So here is the start. . . . .





All I got so far lol. Pushed about a half sphere to get the B&C deck but I am not happy with it as I will have to add in some more edges to keep the density on the butt end of it. It might not have the cross section curvature I really want either. As it seems to be flatter near the saucer. I do have a saucer profile but I am not showing it as I am not happy with it. None of the blues or models match up in this area, and there is the matching the model itself get what looks ok one angle and looks naff elsewhere. I think it could be due to lights and most images using flash. And not knowing what lens etc was used. BUT as said with everything I will just wing it as best as I can. B&C deck of course will be left subdiv as I decide all this as I would like to weld it in place vs sitting on the saucer, reason it sort of has a profile to it atm as I would like to get the loops to follow things vs intersect at sharp angles. Mostly for my anality. I also have to make some better textures, ones with less scratching in.


MMM I think my bridge area is still too tall, exp compared to those trek core photos with the solid lighting vs dim store lights and low iso film. gotta gloss up those red glow nipples too. I am also using the AO shader to fake the grime wells for now later on likely I will texture this crap in. Whole reason I got started in this was the long renders due to all the existing models using scanline setups. POO heh.

MadKoiFish

Ok after finding out somewhere along the way my exposure control settings got turned off I had to readjust everything. Gotta figure out why the default scene keeps reverting settings to start up, wasnt a issue in past versions of max but those didn't make use of multiple clones of the same crap all over either IE appdata folders vomited all over the root drive.

ANYHOW. So I just went for it with the saucer. ATM the only thing I am ehh on is the curvature on the top lip and the undercut area. That area where the nav lights are on the bottom in some photos looks like it is sloped and has multiple angles vs just a flat face and then the under cut. I also am having issues as I seem to have the JEIN-ERPRISE (wonder where that model ended up) mixed in my 11 foot refs! The sensor dome bezel is a prime example as I think I used that DS9 model instead of the original. But that part i dunno, I might just keep it. SIGH, anyhow hope to at least have most of this thing blocked in roughly by the end of this weekend unless I fizzle and be a layabout, which has been all too common these days. EXP which all the jumping around with different drugs. OH to be 16 again, days I could do a 72 hour art binge and just need 8hrs to get back on schedule!

oh well on to the pics then BED for me!

semi profile

Markerlights, seem they are going to need a bit of work, might be a tad large and pretend they have a hole around them in the saucer. I might just play on the filament internals too or keep this milky look, not sure yet. I also would like to know if the DART shaped small coloured markers just to the side of these main ones was really dart shaped and tinted green or red or if that was that restoration add on. (referring to photos taken recently at the smith this last jan, as seen at trek core. I do not think any clear images existed of this area of the ship prior)

Lower sensor (Planetary sensor) All those stepped bits and bevels I think is the Jein connie detail. Are those rounded cyl on a even thirds? I cannot tell in the master photos short of counting hull panels and doing maths, READ: spending hours to know the things are only 2deg out from being true 120deg centers.

evil_genius_180

You know I love it. I know what you mean about the mixed up pictures. One shows this, one shows that. Plus, there are even inconsistencies in the 11-foot model photos, given the restorations over the years. What I personally do is pick something I like best from the available references and just roll with it.

MadKoiFish

Next migrane, well the REAL one as I have always seen the irregular shape of the secondary in head on. So far the 2 3d models are inconsistent down the hull so I am using the casimiro profile as it looks closest to the 11 footer as I see her. BUT I do notice some of the bezels are duplicated etc. IE extra steps. So for now this is my ehh block out of it. I have ignored the bulge in the top curve for now as i really have to wonder if this was done on purpose. Maybe it was and I am missing that info though. I do wonder what I will do with those annoying cut outs though on the sides and bottom for those wave guide whatsits flanking the deflector.







Not sure if those inner ring things are suppose to be the same copper finish on the deflector or not as the paint on the model is really gone funky in places. It looks like it was a metal paint at some point.

evil_genius_180

Looking great, bro. Yeah, the secondary hull is definitely the biggest headache on this model. The rings are definitely copper. I personally do the whole inset area where they sit copper, though I don't know if that's accurate or not.

xumucane

Looking fantastic so far, sir. I applaud your efforts and will be watching keenly. Been working on my own Franz Joseph E based on those schematics, but digging up all sorts of photos for reference. I don't know if you saw these, but they're pretty great:

http://www.startrekhistory.com/models.html

(You'll want to click the > next button)

Chris2005

I'm already floored, lol.

Love the materials on the right-of-way lights.

If you're referring to those little lights on the edge of the saucer that we see on the remastered CG model... Steve Neill's is a very good replica of the original model and his has them. However, unlike the CG model, the ones on the side of the saucer aren't on the original model or Steve's. So I think that's an addition by CBS-D for TOS-R.

In fact, the top of the saucer on the studio model is about the only thing that is completely original, they left that much original.

MadKoiFish

The update:

Loosely blocked in bits. Deflector I am torn between the alum look or to go with the brass look. Not really sure which is original or if I should just stick to the examples of stuff at the smith as that spire is completely different.







The rings behind the deflector will need adjustment to match up to the math as I found some info on it vs eyeballing it to photos.

MadKoiFish

xumucane wrote: »

Looking fantastic so far, sir. I applaud your efforts and will be watching keenly. Been working on my own Franz Joseph E based on those schematics, but digging up all sorts of photos for reference. I don't know if you saw these, but they're pretty great:

http://www.startrekhistory.com/models.html

(You'll want to click the > next button)

MM dislike the swf and logo floating about too bad too as it has nearest neighbor used on the images. Does have some nice info on the stages of the model though.

The FJ blues are a whole different animal. his secondary hull is very different in shape and a whole other project to build out. In that respect Id avoid anything not related to the blues themselves as it can get you into some right headaches. Someone did a comparo of things to be aware of on the FJ blues but I cannot find it online atm I think it might have been a thread here. So if anyone saved the images feel free to post them as it might help anyone aiming to build the FJ version.

I think for me I will go based on photos of the 90s resto version then add in stuff or remove stuff I feel is not appropriate to the model IE changes to things or replacements or original parts. I will refer to drawings or other info when I am at a loss for deciphering the photos or it is a area not documented clearly in decent imagery. I am tossing out much of the multi gen prints or low rez jpged to death photos. I cannot trust that there is not some detail that is a cause of a artifact from any of the processes.

MadKoiFish

Chris2005 wrote: »

I'm already floored, lol.

Love the materials on the right-of-way lights.

If you're referring to those little lights on the edge of the saucer that we see on the remastered CG model... Steve Neill's is a very good replica of the original model and his has them. However, unlike the CG model, the ones on the side of the saucer aren't on the original model or Steve's. So I think that's an addition by CBS-D for TOS-R.

In fact, the top of the saucer on the studio model is about the only thing that is completely original, they left that much original.

I am not even looking at the remaster version of the ship or any cgi model so far. ATM others models are being ignored as well since if I am going to reference a model I will do so with the original model. Pretty much I am looking to define what is on the model today, was there originally. Example I know all those Phillips screws were not, that era it would have been slot heads. Or things like the deflector being a rebuild. (and I suspect not 100% accurate) There are references about stating the current bridge dome is wrong but old pre 70s photos I have that are not early pre finalized 1966 era show a taller dome and not the near flat one most blueprints refer to as the original.

Steve did not really document his research ( I am not really doing so either) so I dunno what he referenced. likely used what I am , photos of the model as it sits at the smith) I did a few yrs ago watch his youtubes before that whole BS music thing had him yank it all off. (think he did the worst by deleting it vs archiving the stuff first) I never got a clear view of that area to know if he did like most and used a raw led or a led shape in that area or if it is the dart shape present on the model today at the smith.


looks like a blob of tinted resin over a led
Earlier markers look like automotive bulbs but I think these are a 70s cop out as much of the work on the ship back then was.

You can just see those outer light darts but cannot define shape. I have no images showing any of this detail pre 90s except this screen cap.

I am mostly in part eyeballing things because I have found so many neckbeard level arguments about inverted deflector grids to angles of decals etc that most of them have no merit or are just artifacts of the imagery used or artifacts produced by fooling with said imagery. Often these are multi generation prints.

Good example of documentation is what SHAW has done for the 33" model (model 1) of the ship.

Domes are just frosted IE anything inside is blurred (low gloss on refraction) with a gradient lum material on a element inside.

PixelMagic

This may help you out a bit. I am building a physical model of the TOS Enterprise, so I did extensive research (obsessive) on the proper color of the TOS Enterprise and which parts receive which color. I made this diagram for my own reference (shaded and then non shaded for a good look at just colors), but like I said, it may be helpful to you as well.

MadKoiFish

Those likely will come in handy when I go about texturing. It all depends how it all reacts to my set up etc. Currently colour is coming from a texture, something I usually avoid but I think to get the final effect I might have no choice.

BTW what is with that little whenius thing on the sensor dome? I do not think I have seen that on any photos. I vaguely remember comments about it being a item on the 1/350 polar kit though.




Added in the impulse but now I look more I am seeing a odd curvature to the taper in some of the refs thought it was the cloth falling off but it seems more aparent in the resto WIP images. Almost looks like it is more heavily curved on one side vs the other as well. So with that I am thinking I am going to have to yank off all the surface cuts I added for details so that I can subdiv or least cut it in then chamfer it to shape.
That "thing" I stuck a block of junk under to least make some sense as to the gap. I know on the model it is just done to allow access to the bolts on the saucer. I just gotta wonder if it is floating like it is due to not being properly fitted or replacement of HDW caused clearances to tighten so much it sits proud of the hull. A lot of gaps down it's length are visible in photos.







Just some of the images that the curve thing shows up in.

MadKoiFish

Not canon as the model just had painted areas here but Dunno. It is just a texture so I can remove it if I change my mind. For the laughs I stuck some hex screws in those holes as that is what is in those holes.

mikala

Imagine the size of the air wrench to remove those suckers!

evil_genius_180

mikala wrote: »

Imagine the size of the air wrench to remove those suckers!

Yeah, I'll bet the pit crew has a hell of time keeping to those 12-14 second stops.

mikala

Would make for a funny animation in a drydock though!

MadKoiFish

The hex driver itself would be about 11~15in, The driver would have to be hard mounted to something. I am guessing they would be some valve or emergency vent system. Shrug.

UPDATE
Ok I made a first go at building these bits to find profiles and bits of ship were off. I just started modeling them with no thought and then realized I wasted the time doing so from being sloppy. SO I didn't bother posting it in some of the forums. SO take 2 is what you will see.


Rebuilt those things before I ate dinner and passed out on the couch until 4am UGH. Ended up redoing the entire front end as none of the blues would match photos of things with the ratio. So I just matched it up to 3 images and went from there. Still not 100% but closest I think I can get atm without rebuilding over and over. Biggest error atm is that first chamfer on the hull. I think mine is out by a few deg. Just gotta round it all off and blend the backside into the hull.







The spike is pissing me off too as I cannot find a clear illustration of it that isnt mushy or fat edged. Or does not result in something that is way off from all my grainy photos! heh. So who knows it might be all pudgy.

MadKoiFish

Chris2005 wrote: »

In fact, the top of the saucer on the studio model is about the only thing that is completely original, they left that much original.

Ah saw this edit just now LATE arnt I lol
Anyhow it really is just the paint on the saucer top. Anything poking out has been fooled with IE entire BC decks up and all the marker lights and impulse assembly. The 90s resto has images of those areas being redone repaired etc. At some point the wrong bulbs were put on the ship (those balloon markers likely the 74 resto as that one did a lot of ugly things to the model) At some point all the lights were pulled or broken off. I have a few ceiling photos of it where all of those lights are missing. The linear accelerator thing is really there to hide the bolts that hold the saucer to the neck so that had to be peeled off. What I find odd is that is the one area where the paint is in the best shape. Almost all of the paint that was redone is cracking off in large chunks like bad bondo on a car. IE done when it was too humid or cold.
But yeah, uh one does have to track down what has or has not been replaced or lost. Stuff like the deflector, the bussard domes etc. So far what I know of that have been replaced entirely it is mostly the bridge top, deflector and spike (lost shortly after production ended, hell someone probably took it home.) The bussard domes, not sure what happened there maybe the plastic just went to hell. I think a large portion of the interior of the bussards as well, vanes etc. Rest is mostly cosmetic changes IE paint and putty for holes they drilled into the model. (securing the nacelles and struts for hanging the model) I also think some bits fell off the left nacelle coil area as well.

Some things I am wary of are the little marker light gems on the nacelles and some of the shapes of light elements on the ship in general. IE those 3 light groups on the backside bottoms of the nacelles. Some show large portholes others I see bits of plexi at various heights.

Getting neckbeard here on this hahahah anyhow stuff I have to tackle as I arrive at those areas.

Chris2005

Spike looks good to me. Based on what I can see in the large studio model, and the smaller 3 foot model we see Shatner holding.

MadKoiFish

Both of those images are the 33" model. Ignoring the wire mounts and forward deflector the curvature of the upper and lower saucer are giveaways. The 11foot and 33" are vastly different ships so I am discounting anything seen on the smaller ship. But yeah I do not know how close the spikes are on the models. Almost anything of the 11 footer is really grainy from multiple print processing and likely a cycle through being made into a slide and reprinted from that. (IE utter vomit vs orig negatives) I suppose I could just replicate the one on there now, or the one used by JEIN as I have clear refs of both of those. Oh well heh. One of those things I will likely put off until the last min. What I need to find out is if those spikes on the pilot version were the same turning or not if so then I have some good refs but I cannot tell if they are or not. Truth be it looks like a pawn (chess piece) stretched out to me.

I have to say though as a kid those images of Spock and Kirk were my favorites as they were holding the ship. I had them as posters at some point but like all of that stuff it all got trashed at some point when I was not around or looking. SIGH.

Kinda funny too that mounting socket on the bottom of the ship being mistaken as a element of the ship lead to a pile of odd fanships over the years.

Chris2005

Agreed, it does look like a pawn stretched out, never thought of it like that, lol.

All in all, I like the little pawn ball end one versus the one on the studio model now, the one it has now is very simple, no detail really. So I hope the re-restoration they're doing will restore the model to its almost original appearance, it'll never reach it's 100% original look, but I hope it'll be closer than it is now.

MadKoiFish

Well I think it is because they had limited resource and use some horrid multigen slide prints as many of my jpgy refs DO make it look like what is on there now. Either cause it is 100% better than that horror that was on there from the 74 resto!!

I just hope if they do a respray they do a better job stabilizing the surface so it doesn't look like a 30yr old bondo car left int eh calif sun. So much of the 91 work is cracking off and flaking off. It could have been that it was applied wrong IE to humid too cold etc or just due to what was there before, unknown paint types stuff done in the 70s etc. I suspect it is the bondo failing due to non controlled environment in the 90s as much of what we know today I do not think was known then. Add in the guy was a modeler for tv vs someone learned in long term work, IE automotive repair and resto etc.

And yes I hope they keep to the "FILMING MODEL" mentality and not give in to the git suggestions they finish off the far side of the model. IE everything facing left. Id accept say converting to LED lights to allow the ship to be lit for a few hours when on display.

The UPDATE sort of I guess

OK all rounded off and added in those "bits" I think I got the smoothing off the backside ok. NOT sure if the bit on the bottom is a exact copy though. Most of my refs of that area are only from the models 74 era and so they are bad telephotos or low rez (well fidelity) full ship photos.

MadKoiFish

Anyhow ship has a butt now. Now to define the fantail platform and figure out if the cutout for the shuttle bay is consistent cylinder or a tapered cyl that follows the hull contours. Gonna have fun tilting that shuttle bay floor THOUGH most of the refs show it flat but it looks angled in the photos.

MadKoiFish

Update, sort of pushed things about to get what I want. Partly it is being a pain is I am trying to match 2 inconsistent blues and various photos. And being super lazy about spending 2 hours on google to find out what shapes I need to look at. I think the bay doors are not properly a half dome or spherical in height. IE they flatten out near the bottom. EXP as I cannot seem to get the height or alignment to the opening and that little room on top. I know the room is offset by ohh 8ft, backside of it is near the centerline for the doors. (which is odd in of itself) ANYHOW this is as close as I can get it atm. Everything is in parts but they will be all merged in and rounded off in time. I think atm my fantail is a bit too smooshed.







BTW ANYONE KNOW what those 2 dots and the red cyl are in the middle of the red stripes? I think the red thing is a light, on the model it is loaded up with over spray. Also did we ever see a hero model for the outside of the doors? I vaguely remember something from the interior. Anyhow going to need to figure out as close to canon as I can for how they operate so I can do more than a dome with lines on.

MadKoiFish

All joined up and rounded off.








aaaaand I think that is it for tonight.

MadKoiFish

GINORMOUS Wireframes, well kinda.

Thumbs so make sure to save link as or open in new tab as saving these thumbs will get you UGLY arse images.

Figured someone might ask at some point. Ignore the poly and vert counts those include other objects and a pile of backup junk IE secondary hulls in various stages so I have something to revert to without digging in old files for them. Thing is about 300k atm un-optimised. Loads of subdiv objects still and the secondary hull has not been approached for edge cleaning yet.

xumucane

That is beautiful, sir. Beautiful!

oldmangreg

This might help...(ignoring the paint job of course)
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=130

nightfever

Looking great. According to your previous works modelling that old lady must be like playing with toy blocks for you, isn't it?

Tralfaz

Thanks for posting those photos oldmanreg. I had no idea just how bad of shape the Enterprise is in. I've always wanted to go to the Smithsonian to see the ship, but would have been so disheartened to see it like this. Let's pray the current restoration is going to be done correctly.

MadKoiFish

Well only a short period to work on this so few min to re hinge the body at 80 edges and matched the dome to it. It was mostly my attempt to cheap out on the dome and using a differing poly count that made those facets really obvious but even at 68 you could still see some of the segs in those ribs exp where they tapered down. Yeah I doubt I will ever render anything out that close but if I ever use this in print work it might MIGHT be pushing things.





Not too happy with the blade taper, they are only a single sided poly atm no thickness, and a really lazy metal material. Likely use a dual dome effect on this too to try to get a mixed overall tone and maybe merge in some yellower tones vs the pinkish hue. Cant really tell the OFF state in the few grain filled pre 70s unlit photos. THOUGH I guess all that matters is what it looks like when ON. For the most part i will likely have the domes doped down with some solid material for render time sake.

And yes, those markerlights on the nacelles are temp as I do not think they are the same elements as on the saucer edge. Manufacturing would make sense that they would be as it is less unique elements but eh gotta go by what is on the model.