I think it's safe to assume there won't be further updates on this particular storyline. My suggestion would be to take all of the above comments with an appropriately-sized grain of salt, as you should most things typed on the internet.
I'm not a strong Trek fan, and Enterprise is probably the "universe" I'm least familiar with (which isn't saying a lot), but I've always loathed this design in particular- it screams of deadline-day panic mixed with a need to show the audience something "incredible" and awesome. That said, if you were to take the concept you would by definition have tremendous scope for interpretation!
psCargile, I know that some things that have been mentioned regarding the design is true, or at least the interpretation of Doug Drexler; who did create the ship. There is a video on Youtube where some people interview Doug about the Enterprise J.
In regards to the entire design of the ship, I myself do not really like it. I would definitely have gone a different route with it if I were to design it. I initially took the task on modeling the ship because I really liked the challenge that is presented with the very little information that is available. Granted that there is going to have to be some interpretation on my behalf because of the lack of visual references.
I like the very basic design of the J, but personally, I would change the nacelle design, and I do not really like the "duckbill" look to the area in front with the navigational deflector... I'd also change that. But yeah, I'm sure it'll be a challenge to model.
You know, I was thinking about the J recently, and I had a thought that the deflector dish might not even be directly connected to the ship, just sort of floating in front of it... maybe it's not even solid, just a perpetual cyclone of material.
The main problem that I have with the nacelles is that they are borrowed from the Altair class ship. It was a ship that Doug designed and built originally for Voyager that he then tried to use for both the NX Enterprise and the future J. It does have an appearance on the Ships of the line calendar along side the Enterprise D so he somehow intended that it would be a 24th century design. He just slapped them on the J rather than create new ones; all in the name of saving time because he did have a deadline for it was a ship of the week kind of thing.
The idea of the deflector dish just floating probably wouldn't be to far off from what Doug had in mind. In that interview that I mentioned, he talked about if it was really up to him, he would just have the nacelles floating in space along side the ship with out any pylons. He described them as being bluetooth nacelles. As far fetched as it may sound, it would be plausible for that technology to be developed; given that even today we now have wireless charging for our phones.
I don't agree with the idea of having whole cities being taken into combat either, but I never really saw the Enterprise J as being a combat ship. It would be a similar situation to the D; it had families on board it since it was primarily an exploration vessel. Even with that, it did see a lot of combat. Besides, when Doug said he sees entire cities on this ship, I do not think he meant literal cities. The ship is 2 miles long and probably just as wide so that would be 4 square miles of potential space. But with all of the essential equipment and space needed for it's regular duties and operations; I can see only half of that used for the crew purposes. It is supposed to be a generational vessel so I can imagine that during it's tour, there could be a whole generation that could be born and raised on the ship.
That interview totally sparked my imagination... I was never fond of the J before, but now... whoo boy.
I kinda had the realization that it's a Universe-class ship because the power source is a contained artificial mini-universe. That's why the center is empty, that's where it is. Engineering/control is situated around it, like a ring.
I also realized that the weird windows aren't windows at all, they're skylights, and beneath them are artificial environments: grasslands, forests, lakes, deserts, etc.
I'm not nuts about floating "bluetooth" nacelles, but I have this idea that all the energy conduits are flat and soft, like fabric, so the pylons can be quite thin.
In that interview that I mentioned, he talked about if it was really up to him, he would just have the nacelles floating in space along side the ship with out any pylons. He described them as being bluetooth nacelles. As far fetched as it may sound, it would be plausible for that technology to be developed; given that even today we now have wireless charging for our phones.
I love this idea so much, and it's something I've thought of, as well. Heck, I'd even love to see a ship without ANY nacelles at all... maybe a ship that uses perfected soliton wave technology, or that can generate/open it's own stable wormholes.
It's interesting, but without the nacelles, you sort of lose the iconic "Enterprise" shape. The balance of the masculine (straight lines) and the feminine (the saucer, the dishes, etc) is core to the identity... so if you lose the nacelles, you have to find that balance somewhere else. Should prove an interesting design challenge.
Just want to ask a quick question to get all of your opinions; Do you think the ship should have visible hull plating details? Doug said he envisioned the ship to have been grown (at least the hull) as apposed to constructed. This may give the hull an interesting texture, but would do away with either the aztech pattern or any modeled hull plates, except for in a few key areas. Think of the look of the original enterprise instead of the Enterprise D or E.
Contemporary science fiction often ignores advances in material sciences and assumes skin sections will retain visible boundaries because it makes it look more familiar to current technology. You see a ship without panel lines, and you think the modeler is lazy with textures. With 3D printing, composites, nanotechnology and computronium, panel lines, if perminate, would be microscopic, even for 2245. The low budget films of the 50s were more accurate to material advancements --hatches were often seamless. So yes, a grown hull should be babybutt smooth, not like a John Eaves study in lines.
The question is how to sell it the right way... we've been using seams and lights to show scale. How do you show scale with giant sweeping bands of light covering whole biomes, or a ship covered with a skin? Well, I think we'd see a lot of what's behind those windows: trees, water, hills, etc... we'd need to get a hint of what's behind it (though I imagine the windows aren't entirely clear). The skin? Well, there wouldn't be folds, but there might be moles. You might have fresher skin growing over older or damaged skin, colour differentials, you might see hints of how the skin grew over the exterior, like the lines in ice or the sweeping curves of cold magma.
I wouldn't go so far as using actual skin. A hull that is "grown" is a form of 3D printing, or as it's also called, additive manufacturing. Transporter technology should put this to good use, beaming layers of material together, or creating new materials within the matter stream.
Scale? Well the size of the J is another issue. Technology trends toward more with less, so things tend to get smaller. They should have smaller, faster vessels with sports team sized crews.
I tend to agree that I should lean more towards them having the ability to "grow" the hull instead of welding individual hull plates together. I also agree that it would not be anything like actual skin or any kind of living tissue but more like some kind of new fabricated material that they can alter on the molecular level. This would provide a challenge on developing the texture to make it look right.
I also agree that as they move to the future, the vessels should be getting smaller. The ships from the 29th century were small in comparison to 24th century ships, and ones from the 31st century had large interiors that were smaller on the outside. However I would probably like to keep the large vessel because it is supposed to be the flag ship of the federation and just like with the D, it carries whole families on board it.
I'll make an assumption that the Enterprise J is big because in that timeline, the expanse kept growing (right? it's been a while) so there were tons of refugees and the only safe place to be was on a Starship. As for the 29th Century, we only saw timeships, which which are presumably small and autonomous for security reasons.
The J was big because she had to be as a (presumably) transwarp ship, able to cross distances between galaxies.
As for the texture, because the ship is so massive, the texture would make the ship appear very smooth from a distance. Look to the Death Star to illustrate this point... close-up, the Death Star was extremely textured, with valleys and all kind of surface detail. Yet, from afar, it looked completely smooth.
You can see some details on the hull so it is not completely smooth, but it does not seem to have a whole lot of greebles or external hardware that I can see. I am also debating if I should put the Aztech design or not; though I am probably leaning towards something original since it is a future ship.
I have decided to go away from the aztech design and go with something different; though I do not know what that is going to be yet. Even though the ship does have a grown hull, it will also have some surface details because they are seen in the episode and released images.
Here are a few updated pics. I have decided to go more for an under slung shuttle/docking bay so I am currently in the process of removing the area on top. I actually think it gives it more of a cleaner look, though I still do not know what to think about the huge impulse engine on the back. I am also experimenting with the windows on the bottom of the saucer section. I am trying to come up with something new because on a ship that size, normal windows for crew quarters would be real small. For them to be as large as they are in the picture, they would need to be something more along the lines of large windows for viewing or something else entirely.
I have started to work on what I am calling at the moment "Aft Observation Lounge". It is more along the lines of an atrium type area that faces the rear of the ship.
It is just in it's basic form at the moment. I am trying to decide if I want it to have horizontal or vertical windows. I also have continued to work on main deflector dish.
Very interesting, I was never able to find those during my research. Thanks for showing them. It looks like I was close with some assumptions. I still have some issue with the bottom of the ship due to on screen evidence. As far as that is concerned, I will use my own interpretation.
Using the orthos that you showed me Vorlon, I put together a quick side by side comparison on my model and the original.
I did have to increase he size of the ship along the Y axiz because it was to small. I will now be working on getting the model to match the pics that Doug posted.
Some update with this ship. I completely re-started the entire secondary hull and the new one is looking much better. I am still planning on bulking up the lower portion of the ship and keep the bottom of the saucer to look like what was seen on screen.
Part of the new addition is a auxillary deflector dish and underslung shuttle bays.
The deflector dish is going to be inspired from the Dauntless. I know it wasn't a true federation vessel, but it did appear on screen as a Federation vessel in Azati Prime; and it looks like a new kind of technology to match the rest of the ship. The back hangar bay is actually three bays. There is a larger one that could hold a small vessel about the size of the Nova class; and two smaller bays for shuttles.
Very nice, I'm a fan of this ship! And tried to make Enterprise J as well... But it was loong time ago and I didn't succeed much. Just one animation(scroll to 1:45) -
That video is not bad for one of your first works. Your design would be great as a precursor model for the Universal class; maybe like the Enterprise I.
I now have most of the windows on the bottom part of the saucer done. Instead of doing all these windows in the model, I am instead going to use textures to get the look of the windows and an alpha map to make the individual windows light up. The square look that you see is not final.
After awhile, I eventually decided that the base of the model is finished and in order to do all the fine details; I applied the subdiv modifier. Now I am working on finer details such as hull panels and such. I am also trying to come up with a better way to portray the main impulse engine.
Posts
I'm not a strong Trek fan, and Enterprise is probably the "universe" I'm least familiar with (which isn't saying a lot), but I've always loathed this design in particular- it screams of deadline-day panic mixed with a need to show the audience something "incredible" and awesome. That said, if you were to take the concept you would by definition have tremendous scope for interpretation!
In regards to the entire design of the ship, I myself do not really like it. I would definitely have gone a different route with it if I were to design it. I initially took the task on modeling the ship because I really liked the challenge that is presented with the very little information that is available. Granted that there is going to have to be some interpretation on my behalf because of the lack of visual references.
The idea of the deflector dish just floating probably wouldn't be to far off from what Doug had in mind. In that interview that I mentioned, he talked about if it was really up to him, he would just have the nacelles floating in space along side the ship with out any pylons. He described them as being bluetooth nacelles. As far fetched as it may sound, it would be plausible for that technology to be developed; given that even today we now have wireless charging for our phones.
I don't agree with the idea of having whole cities being taken into combat either, but I never really saw the Enterprise J as being a combat ship. It would be a similar situation to the D; it had families on board it since it was primarily an exploration vessel. Even with that, it did see a lot of combat. Besides, when Doug said he sees entire cities on this ship, I do not think he meant literal cities. The ship is 2 miles long and probably just as wide so that would be 4 square miles of potential space. But with all of the essential equipment and space needed for it's regular duties and operations; I can see only half of that used for the crew purposes. It is supposed to be a generational vessel so I can imagine that during it's tour, there could be a whole generation that could be born and raised on the ship.
I kinda had the realization that it's a Universe-class ship because the power source is a contained artificial mini-universe. That's why the center is empty, that's where it is. Engineering/control is situated around it, like a ring.
I also realized that the weird windows aren't windows at all, they're skylights, and beneath them are artificial environments: grasslands, forests, lakes, deserts, etc.
I'm not nuts about floating "bluetooth" nacelles, but I have this idea that all the energy conduits are flat and soft, like fabric, so the pylons can be quite thin.
I love this idea so much, and it's something I've thought of, as well. Heck, I'd even love to see a ship without ANY nacelles at all... maybe a ship that uses perfected soliton wave technology, or that can generate/open it's own stable wormholes.
Scale? Well the size of the J is another issue. Technology trends toward more with less, so things tend to get smaller. They should have smaller, faster vessels with sports team sized crews.
I also agree that as they move to the future, the vessels should be getting smaller. The ships from the 29th century were small in comparison to 24th century ships, and ones from the 31st century had large interiors that were smaller on the outside. However I would probably like to keep the large vessel because it is supposed to be the flag ship of the federation and just like with the D, it carries whole families on board it.
As for the texture, because the ship is so massive, the texture would make the ship appear very smooth from a distance. Look to the Death Star to illustrate this point... close-up, the Death Star was extremely textured, with valleys and all kind of surface detail. Yet, from afar, it looked completely smooth.
EntJ_bottom_12_21_15.jpg
EntJ_nacelle_12_21_15.jpg
EntJ_back_12_21_15.jpg
I have decided to go away from the aztech design and go with something different; though I do not know what that is going to be yet. Even though the ship does have a grown hull, it will also have some surface details because they are seen in the episode and released images.
EntJ_back_12_31_15.jpg
EntJ_bottom_12_31_15.jpg
EnterpriseJ_Observation1.jpg
It is just in it's basic form at the moment. I am trying to decide if I want it to have horizontal or vertical windows. I also have continued to work on main deflector dish.
EnterpriseJ_Deflector1.jpg
EnterpriseJ_Top_1_8_16.jpg
More work on the deflector dish:
And on the underside of the saucer.
Top:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12540562_10153198182141104_7937808242393023029_n.jpg?oh=c496175fb77da97260a96f3ba9cbd4f0&oe=56FE701D
Bottom:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/s960x960/12493677_10153198182191104_2613620156946879669_o.jpg
Side:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12487148_10153198182106104_8216596891857333867_o.jpg
Front:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12486030_10153198182241104_191339758313630886_o.jpg
Back:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12465772_10153198187126104_1899300634157099540_o.jpg
I did have to increase he size of the ship along the Y axiz because it was to small. I will now be working on getting the model to match the pics that Doug posted.
Part of the new addition is a auxillary deflector dish and underslung shuttle bays.
EntJ_Deflector_2_18_16.jpg
EntJ_Hangar_2_18_16.jpg
The deflector dish is going to be inspired from the Dauntless. I know it wasn't a true federation vessel, but it did appear on screen as a Federation vessel in Azati Prime; and it looks like a new kind of technology to match the rest of the ship. The back hangar bay is actually three bays. There is a larger one that could hold a small vessel about the size of the Nova class; and two smaller bays for shuttles.
EnterpriseJ_2_18_16.jpg
EntJ_bottom_4_13_16.jpg
After awhile, I eventually decided that the base of the model is finished and in order to do all the fine details; I applied the subdiv modifier. Now I am working on finer details such as hull panels and such. I am also trying to come up with a better way to portray the main impulse engine.
EntJ_back_4_13_16.jpg