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3DRDA ISS 'In system supply ship'

liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
edited July 2011 in Work in Progress #1
Still keeping with the Avatar theme I have continued work on my ESA solar explorer, which has now been repurposed as my RDA Supply Ship the 'ISV Eclipse'

It basically consists of an oversized lander capable of 100,000 ton drop to a planetoid surface. The mothership is being built around it.


Here are some WIP shots and clay renders.

Built in Google SU8, clay renders in Thea, illustrations in PS CS5
90343.jpg
90344.jpg
Post edited by liam887 on
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  • salsasalsa171 Posts: 0Member
    #2
    Interesting. I like the lander, looks like it should e a workhorse. Hope to see more.
  • Jimi JamesJimi James0 Posts: 0Member
    #3
    Nice work as always Liam.
  • DimitriyDimitriy0 Posts: 0Member
    #4
    Agree with others on the thread. Lets see more of this.
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #5
    Here are some images of the lander and the mothership. note this version wont represent the final product it will be more reminiscent of the ISV venture star.

    Sketchup is doing pretty well, have all my layers and components nice and tight so no struggle so far.

    Anyway the mirror is pretty much done, took so long as I had it done a few hours ago and I accidentally exploded its group crashing sketchup and loosing the file!

    had to make it again which was a pain in the arse as its all modelled no textures so all those beams you see criss crossing the surface are actual geometry!
    90303.jpg90309.jpg90317.jpg90318.jpg
  • FlankerFlanker0 Posts: 0Member
    #6
    Looking very impressive. Love the detail of the lander quite a lot
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #7
    Cheers!

    Still need to work out how the lander will attach/detach as the ship is basically built in a straight line with the lander connection the forward section with the protective mirror. I think ill have to construct some sort of lattice cage around the lander so when it detaches to de-orbit the ship will still hold together.
  • Sukhoi_FlagonSukhoi_Flagon0 Posts: 0Member
    #8
    some really nice work sofar, love the styling!

    just out of interest, what kind of braking method do you envisage for this orbital lander to employ, the numbers involved in terms of momentum must be pretty epic!! :D:D
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #9
    Sukhoi_Flagon wrote: »
    some really nice work sofar, love the styling!

    just out of interest, what kind of braking method do you envisage for this orbital lander to employ, the numbers involved in terms of momentum must be pretty epic!! :D:D

    Not sure yet, the large thrusters used for the accent back to orbit can be flared a few times I guess, parachutes maybe?

    I havent decided if it goes up and down once or can make multiple trips to the surface. I think im going to go with once to help with the design issues.

    If thats the case it will have a disposable heat shield and parachutes with extra thrusters. It takes off again with the landing gear and can be refurbished for later missions.

    Its not as big as it was in the illustration. If you look at the new clay renders you can see it in comparison with the valkiyre shuttles its much smaller now.
  • HundredHundred268 Posts: 1,021Member
    #10
    This is nice. Great work liam887. :thumb:

    EDIT: You know I think there's currently enough technology to be able to build something like the lander today.
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #11
    Hundred wrote: »
    This is nice. Great work liam887. :thumb:

    EDIT: You know I think there's currently enough technology to be able to build something like the lander today.

    Really? Maybe the technology but never the budget or co-operation! It will weigh an absolute mental amount and need to ascend/decend under its own power?
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #12
    Here is some work on the matter-antimatter storage, got rid of the low poly placeholders and started work on the real ones.
    Sorry for the poor quality will re-upload with a better image soon, but you get the idea!
    90338.jpg
    202.jpg 93.9K
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #13
    2077116 faces now but its handling great due to all the sections on multiple layers and a careful use of components.

    Made a lot of progress as you can see, lattice structure holding the storage tanks to the engines is complete as well as most of the framework.

    Still need to figure out how the lander attaches and detaches, will get on to that soon.
    90343.jpg90344.jpg
  • cavebearcavebear179 Posts: 623Member
    #14
    Looks very good Liam. I really need to learn more about layers and use components a lot more. If your machine crashed because of such a simple "oops" moment then I guess components just proved their worth!
  • MelakMelak332 Posts: 0Member
    #15
    Looking real nice :)

    One thing about them radiators though - I'm no expert, just talking out of my ass here :p

    If you arange them in pairs like that, wouldn't every radiator radiate nearly 50% of its heat to the other radiator in the pair?
    Meaning that your 4 radiators are only dissipating very slightly more than 2 non paired radiators? :/
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #16
    Melak wrote: »
    Looking real nice :)

    One thing about them radiators though - I'm no expert, just talking out of my ass here :p

    If you arange them in pairs like that, wouldn't every radiator radiate nearly 50% of its heat to the other radiator in the pair?
    Meaning that your 4 radiators are only dissipating very slightly more than 2 non paired radiators? :/

    There is no convection in space so I thought this wouldn't be a problem as there is no medium for the heat to move between panels? I could be wrong but I think im right lol?
  • MelakMelak332 Posts: 0Member
    #17
    Dissipate was probably the wrong word, you're right there wouldn't be convection directly between the panels (well maybe if they are mounted together somehow but that's not the point :p).

    Your panels are radiating EM energy off into space - and a large part of that radiation hits the panel right next to it, heating that up. And the other panels is heating this one up. The greater the distance between the radiators, the less of the radiation hits the panels and you gain um...capacity to dispose of heat?

    That's what I would guess anyway, also why the radiators (white panels) are arranged so that none face eachother here:
    radiators_nasa.jpg
    But maybe we can get nyrath in here, he knows this stuff :p

    Edit:

    Here's a crappy paint drawing:
    rK3sr.png

    dark red are your two radiators,
    I only scribbled one radiator radiating.
    green indicates "all energy is going into empty space", orange is borderline, i.e. "part of the energy radiated here is going into empty space",
    and finally red where your one radiator is just heating up the other one.

    Now if you add up all the green and orange for both radiators, you possibly end up having radiated more into space than if you had used just one radiator, but not much more.

    But I could be wrong :)
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804263 Posts: 11,045Member
    #18
    That's a really cool model so far, great work. I can't wait to see how the lander attaches. :D
  • AlnairAlnair181 Posts: 255Member
    #19
    Excellent model! :thumb:
  • CoolhandCoolhand289 Mountain LairPosts: 1,298Member
    #20
    Melak has a point about the stacked radiators, its very inefficient as radiators in space lose their heat energy via infrared radiation so here one radiator is radiating on the other and the combined pair of units are probably only slightly more effective than just one radiator. If you imagine them as light sources, you'll get the idea because its just another form of radiation, but one you can see.
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #21
    Coolhand wrote: »
    Melak has a point about the stacked radiators, its very inefficient as radiators in space lose their heat energy via infrared radiation so here one radiator is radiating on the other and the combined pair of units are probably only slightly more effective than just one radiator. If you imagine them as light sources, you'll get the idea because its just another form of radiation, but one you can see.

    Yeah I get it. I was just thinking about convection and heat and not the whole energy spectrum. I forgot to take into account EM etc ill reconfigure and see what I come up with.
  • nyrathnyrath0 Posts: 0Member
    #22
    I'm afraid I have to agree with Melak. You have to arrange the radiating surfaces so they cannot "see" each other. Or as Coolhand says, image that the radiating surfaces are lamps. If any of their light illuminates another radiator, it is interfering with that radiator.

    So two single radiators edge on to each other is fine (like the ISV Venture Star). But a pair of dual radiators where the duals are face to face is defeating the purpose.

    Graphic artist Myn.pheos used his 3D rendering package to find the best place to put his radiators.
    http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/advdesign.php#id--Designing_with_CGI_Modeling
    That is probably more work than you care to do, but it shows the basic idea.


    Scientists actually used a 3D render package, using lamps to simulate head radiation in order to solve the Pioneer Anomaly
    http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/advdesign.php#id--Designing_with_CGI_Modeling--Pioneer_Anomaly
  • nyrathnyrath0 Posts: 0Member
    #23
    Having said all that, your mesh is most impressive!
  • nyrathnyrath0 Posts: 0Member
    #24
    liam887 wrote: »
    Yeah I get it. I was just thinking about convection and heat and not the whole energy spectrum. I forgot to take into account EM etc ill reconfigure and see what I come up with.
    Yes, getting rid of waste heat in space is a royal pain for rocket designers.
    There is Convection, Conduction, and Radiation, but the first two methods do not work in airless space.
    In this case, "radiation" is more or less "shine like an infrared lamp"

    Now, you probably know his already, but while the rockets are thrusting, the ship will act like it is standing vertically. The engines will be at the top and the whipple shield will be at the bottom. So the lander will be "dangling." I'd suggest it be attached by its nose to the ship's spine, with its tail hanging down, aimed at the whipple shield.
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #25
    I was just following these specs:http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star
  • nyrathnyrath0 Posts: 0Member
    #26
    liam887 wrote: »
    I was just following these specs:http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star
    Yes, and you have done a stunning job. Far better than anything I could do.
    However, if you look real close at the Venture Star's radiators, you will see that each radiator is single-ply, not double-ply like you have it.
    http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/realdesigns.php#id--Avatar_ISV_Venture_Star--Breaking_at_Alpha_Centauri
    (look at upper right image)

    Just make each of the two radiators single-ply and you will be golden.
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #27
    Yeah ill change it soon, need to make the ablative shields behind the mirror too.
  • daibakadaibaka171 Posts: 0Member
    #28
    What if you placed some sort of thermal reflector between the dual panels of each pair of radiators? That would prevent the problem of heating up your opposing radiator panels and would potentially increase the efficiency of your heat dissipation.

    The only possible problem I see with this is that you may be reflecting a percentage of your heat back into the radiator itself. At least this solution could be implemented fairly simply and without changing the design or profile that you've established so far.

    Anyway, just a thought! Great work so far. Love to see these somewhat more reality based designs here on SciFi-Meshes.
  • Sukhoi_FlagonSukhoi_Flagon0 Posts: 0Member
    #29
    out of interest how will the payload be used whilst in transit? will it double as living quarters/accomodation etc, or is all of that housed within the main space vehicle?

    as has already been said, looking awesome so far! :) keep it up!
  • liam887liam887322 SwedenPosts: 575Member
    #30
    Sukhoi_Flagon wrote: »
    out of interest how will the payload be used whilst in transit? will it double as living quarters/accomodation etc, or is all of that housed within the main space vehicle?

    as has already been said, looking awesome so far! :) keep it up!

    The payload is generally the lander, inside this all the cargo is carried. In front of the lander are the hab modules that contain the living sections for the crew. They rotate inside the cylinders, think 2001 style and you will get it.

    You can see a close up here on an earlier design, however the hab modules are generally the same http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=91387&d=1310322964
  • nyrathnyrath0 Posts: 0Member
    #31
    There are some reference pictures here, but you probably knew about them already.
    http://www.benprocter.com/avatar/vehicles/
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