That was my idea when i designed the shuttle. As a military shuttle it must have the ability to work under different and extrem conditions. That includes even the possibility of a landing on the surface of one of the inhabitable planets. That reminds me on the fact that I have to put together a data sheet for the binary star system...
It would be a good idea to go with an Aerospike nozzle then. A normal Bell nozzle is more efficient than an Aerospike at the atmospheric pressure it was designed for, but an Aerospike will be more efficient overall if it needs to operate at a variety of external pressures.
I really like laser arrangement a lot, it's perfect for running away and tail landing, but still accounts for heading into danger. Another nice thing about the laser system is in addition to defense and offense it can be used for scanning, tracking, and communication.
The aerospike is looking really good, is it finished, or will you be adding anything else to it?
The aerospike is looking really good, is it finished, or will you be adding anything else to it?
At the moment I'm thinking about a few more details but I'm still undecided whether the aerospike needs further refinement or not. The shuttle's exterior is almost finished. I will now polish some of the details and add the missing ones. Next step will be texturing.
From what little I've read you can go several different ways with the spike. Either keep it as it is for design simplicity, cut the tip off to reduce weight at the cost of some efficiency, make it longer and taper it with a concave curve (for efficiency? at the cost of weight), or taper and cut it.
I think the real disadvantage of a long taper is cooling it effectively, it won't have the space for pipes for active cooling. But, the tip is also, relatively, the coolest part of the nozzle, the part at the combustion chamber is hottest. This depends on where you want to go with material science and cooling engineering. Of course, it can't be too long, since this is a tail lander. I think you currently have a good length.
Curving it inwards is good because from what I've seen, the shape should look like an inverted exhaust plume. I think this also angles the force of the exhaust upward more at the base. But, the simple cone you have probably has advantages of its own. I don't know any compelling technical reason to make a change in this regard, unless there are aesthetic reasons.
Cutting the tip off only loses about 5% thrust, and venting 1% of the gas into that section reduces the loss to only 1% or better. Weight is reduced a lot from what I've read. I don't know how this would really work out in trade offs and advantages, so I would just go with what looks good.
One thing I just realized, the exhaust plume will be gigantic in vacuum, so the aft laser apertures might not see back clearly in space while accelerating. It might make sense to put additional rear sensors on the top rear part of the vertical stabilizers, like fighters have antennas there. Just a small camera and radar, maybe one blister per fin. Maybe, they could be on the wing tips, since they're much further out.
Curving it inwards is good because from what I've seen, the shape should look like an inverted exhaust plume. I think this also angles the force of the exhaust upward more at the base. But, the simple cone you have probably has advantages of its own. I don't know any compelling technical reason to make a change in this regard, unless there are aesthetic reasons.
The general idea is that the cone is half of a bell nozzle, with the other "side" being formed by the ambient atmosphere, hence why it's efficiency is more constant across varying ambient pressures. So for accuracy you would want it to have somewhat of a bell nozzle like curve to it.
I believe however that the optimal length of the curve should be theoretically infinite, so you're always making a trade off however long and curved you have the spike.
missed this thread.. and just read it all.. Looking Great!! love the ship ans shuttle! I like the aero spike as well!
few pages back someone had the question of why missles in space? in a book series i read (night's dawn trilogy, Peter F. Hamilton) features combat wasps, and gave some good battles
link to the ships, and the weapons of the novel, and talked about each wasp (missle) could be an ECM, high speed kinitic, stand off laser beam, and a multiple warhead nuclear wasp.. each for there own purpose, but in this instance, the wasps do all the fighting with the main ship using point defense lasers to kill wasps that got thru the definse line.. interesting read if you get the time (the site and the books)
EDIT: Nevermind.. just read your other thread with the frigate and seen that you've read the novel!! he he.. Great work!
Now that I found the time to read through the whole thread I have to admit I like the background you posted earlier. One suggestion though. Dont try to find a explanation or a reason for every technical detail. I mean all of this is still fiction, some more, others less... . Shure that with our present limitations in theory, design (calculations) and processing of materials we are limited but you have to admit that once you think about a universe that is about to connect 2 starsystems you have to go even beyond what is thought today. I like the realism of your ships and that you avoid the classical narval equivalent. But I see no reason to have no "secret" technology at all. Make your job as an author a bit easier. Therefore I hope you keep on going this route as it seems to be kind of unique here.
To the discussion about the drones: Drones are considered to be exellent for dirty, dull or dangerous missions. And attacking a space capital ship is at least dangerous. With highly sophisticated Defence the weapon has to become smarter. So the drone is a logical evolution of a missile for space combat. Other wapons must be used close range or will be dodged. Former would expose the whole expensive ship with all the ppl on board. If I was a military I would push development to find solutions for UCSC (unmanned combat space craft).
Dirty would be in a highly radiated environment.
Dull would be as sentry or surveillance drones. Think about it!
My weapon of choise (on the drones) would then be a close range one that cant be dodged anymore (limited reaction time on the target ship) like guns or penetrating explosives (that will form a so called plasma on impact ^^).
But I see no reason to have no "secret" technology at all. Make your job as an author a bit easier. Therefore I hope you keep on going this route as it seems to be kind of unique here.
If Alnair's intent is to produce a Hard Scifi universe (and I think that's his general intent), he'll want to make as much of the technology fit into current theory and explain it in those terms as possible. Personally I think he's doing a pretty good job of it
If Alnair's intent is to produce a Hard Scifi universe (and I think that's his general intent), he'll want to make as much of the technology fit into current theory and explain it in those terms as possible. Personally I think he's doing a pretty good job of it
... but I have to make some concessions to science "fiction". I will use a few "magical" devices when it's absolutely necessary. One example: the ships are using liquid hydrogen as reaction-mass for their main engines. With the volume of her tanks it wouldn't be possible for the Thetis to carry the necessary amount of reaction mass. So I decided to give her a new form of nano-organic-cristalline-frameworks as hydrogen storage so that the hydrogen's storage density can be increased to 640 kg/m^3 (a value that is absolutely impossible according to today's knowledge)
It reminds me of the stuff Alastair Reynolds developped in the Revelation Space Universe. Foam-phase metallic hydrogen, a metastable state of hydrogen used both as a way to store reaction mass and as warheads for railguns. I lent my books so I can't check i he did the maths for it and included it in the book, however.
If you never read it, it may be of some interest to you, it's a great set of novels and short stories where he mixed hard physics and engineering with awesome sense of wonder (interstellar ships' engines take their power from a high-energy-density primitive universe through micro black holes, and its sounds so right when you read it ^^).
Not much to say about your recent models, your prowesses made me speechless a long time ago.
Just please keep giving me my regular fix of awesome space stuff
... but I have to make some concessions to science "fiction". I will use a few "magical" devices when it's absolutely necessary. One example: the ships are using liquid hydrogen as reaction-mass for their main engines. With the volume of her tanks it wouldn't be possible for the Thetis to carry the necessary amount of reaction mass. So I decided to give her a new form of nano-organic-cristalline-frameworks as hydrogen storage so that the hydrogen's storage density can be increased to 640 kg/m^3 (a value that is absolutely impossible according to today's knowledge)
But It would require an insane high pressure to force that change of aggregate state. My idea was to create an advanced material that can adsorb the required amount of hydrogen under moderate conditions. Currently chemists are searching for such materials.
In quite every sci-fi stuff we have some device/teconology/whatever that allows ships/mechas/whatever to do incredible things in space... But don't forget the most important part of those sci-FIctional things: their extremely Exotic and kinda sexy names. XD
My favourite is from the GAINAX anime GunBuster/DieBuster:
"Inertial Canceler".. Love this sound..
Anyway, thinking some sci-fi exciting action in space without some of this fictional devices is really hard..
That's why Star Wars will be a masterpiece forever XD
Posts
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=36068
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2011/oonautilus.jpg
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2011/oo.nautilus.ede.jpg
One detail I found interesting is how each habitat pod has its own dedicated radiator panel. And, you have to love the giant space arm.
... I think I'll "steal" those cylindrical containers XD
Thank You Major Diarrhia!
But, back to topic, any news about the shuttle?
Looks great
The aerospike is looking really good, is it finished, or will you be adding anything else to it?
At the moment I'm thinking about a few more details but I'm still undecided whether the aerospike needs further refinement or not. The shuttle's exterior is almost finished. I will now polish some of the details and add the missing ones. Next step will be texturing.
I think the real disadvantage of a long taper is cooling it effectively, it won't have the space for pipes for active cooling. But, the tip is also, relatively, the coolest part of the nozzle, the part at the combustion chamber is hottest. This depends on where you want to go with material science and cooling engineering. Of course, it can't be too long, since this is a tail lander. I think you currently have a good length.
Curving it inwards is good because from what I've seen, the shape should look like an inverted exhaust plume. I think this also angles the force of the exhaust upward more at the base. But, the simple cone you have probably has advantages of its own. I don't know any compelling technical reason to make a change in this regard, unless there are aesthetic reasons.
Cutting the tip off only loses about 5% thrust, and venting 1% of the gas into that section reduces the loss to only 1% or better. Weight is reduced a lot from what I've read. I don't know how this would really work out in trade offs and advantages, so I would just go with what looks good.
One thing I just realized, the exhaust plume will be gigantic in vacuum, so the aft laser apertures might not see back clearly in space while accelerating. It might make sense to put additional rear sensors on the top rear part of the vertical stabilizers, like fighters have antennas there. Just a small camera and radar, maybe one blister per fin. Maybe, they could be on the wing tips, since they're much further out.
I found this Smart Skin Antenna thing, it might make a nice texture. It's old, so I don't know what it would look like today. Maybe it would be a slightly darker hull section, like what the F-22 has in places.
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/en/photo_details/99490_photo_F-18+SRA+with+Smart+Skin/?ref=none&cat=none&picturetype=all&yearstart=1870&yearend=2000&page=1&sort=newest&logical=False&searchoptions=255
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/en/photo_details/99489_photo_F-18+SRA+with+Smart+Skin/
I believe however that the optimal length of the curve should be theoretically infinite, so you're always making a trade off however long and curved you have the spike.
thx for sharing this.. beautiful and much more realistic than the stuff I make for my weired universe ^^ nice shape and detail!
well, if curved surface-plating would be easier with blender...
few pages back someone had the question of why missles in space? in a book series i read (night's dawn trilogy, Peter F. Hamilton) features combat wasps, and gave some good battles
http://www.silentphoenix.co.uk/confed/Articles/article_combat_wasps.html
link to the ships, and the weapons of the novel, and talked about each wasp (missle) could be an ECM, high speed kinitic, stand off laser beam, and a multiple warhead nuclear wasp.. each for there own purpose, but in this instance, the wasps do all the fighting with the main ship using point defense lasers to kill wasps that got thru the definse line.. interesting read if you get the time (the site and the books)
EDIT: Nevermind.. just read your other thread with the frigate and seen that you've read the novel!! he he.. Great work!
The shuttle is looking really classy.
To the discussion about the drones: Drones are considered to be exellent for dirty, dull or dangerous missions. And attacking a space capital ship is at least dangerous. With highly sophisticated Defence the weapon has to become smarter. So the drone is a logical evolution of a missile for space combat. Other wapons must be used close range or will be dodged. Former would expose the whole expensive ship with all the ppl on board. If I was a military I would push development to find solutions for UCSC (unmanned combat space craft).
Dirty would be in a highly radiated environment.
Dull would be as sentry or surveillance drones. Think about it!
My weapon of choise (on the drones) would then be a close range one that cant be dodged anymore (limited reaction time on the target ship) like guns or penetrating explosives (that will form a so called plasma on impact ^^).
Good luck,
Stefan
If Alnair's intent is to produce a Hard Scifi universe (and I think that's his general intent), he'll want to make as much of the technology fit into current theory and explain it in those terms as possible. Personally I think he's doing a pretty good job of it
... but I have to make some concessions to science "fiction". I will use a few "magical" devices when it's absolutely necessary. One example: the ships are using liquid hydrogen as reaction-mass for their main engines. With the volume of her tanks it wouldn't be possible for the Thetis to carry the necessary amount of reaction mass. So I decided to give her a new form of nano-organic-cristalline-frameworks as hydrogen storage so that the hydrogen's storage density can be increased to 640 kg/m^3 (a value that is absolutely impossible according to today's knowledge)
If you never read it, it may be of some interest to you, it's a great set of novels and short stories where he mixed hard physics and engineering with awesome sense of wonder (interstellar ships' engines take their power from a high-energy-density primitive universe through micro black holes, and its sounds so right when you read it ^^).
Not much to say about your recent models, your prowesses made me speechless a long time ago.
Just please keep giving me my regular fix of awesome space stuff
My favourite is from the GAINAX anime GunBuster/DieBuster:
"Inertial Canceler".. Love this sound..
Anyway, thinking some sci-fi exciting action in space without some of this fictional devices is really hard..
That's why Star Wars will be a masterpiece forever XD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywell
http://www.emc2fusion.org/
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/02/emc2-bussard-fusion-status-from-end-of.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmp1cg3-WDY