The color of the nacelle grilles is absolutely spot on; makes me feel like I'm watching the show in HD. I do agree with Valkyrie though in that the renders look a little grainy. Thanks so much for sharing this build with us! :thumb:
I think Tobias said he based this particular model on the one that was on Sale @ Auction, but I have been unable to find information if it is the 6ft or 8ft model.
BUT having looking through some other pictures, there is painted hull damage on the secondary hull, so I imagine this is the 8ft model used for GENERATIONS
Actually looking at the picture myself, I am not sure which size it is, but I have found a match for your picture.
CGI Picture
Auction Shot, Ref Photo
Toby said he based his model on Ed whitefire's blueprints, which were the 4 footer and I only know of the hull shape being remade to look like the 6 footer, so he didn't really answer the question at the time To me, at this point, it looks like it's the 4 footer saucer and details with the 6 footer hull and nacelles.
The base of the model are the Whitefire blueprints. But I made some adjustment, as they not always match the actual model pictures I had. After that, my main source were the Christies auction pictures. That is the 78inch model (6.5foot).
I think Tobias said he based this particular model on the one that was on Sale @ Auction, but I have been unable to find information if it is the 6ft or 8ft model.
BUT having looking through some other pictures, there is painted hull damage on the secondary hull, so I imagine this is the 8ft model used for GENERATIONS
Actually looking at the picture myself, I am not sure which size it is, but I have found a match for your picture.
CGI Picture
Auction Shot, Ref Photo
i dont think there ever was an 8ft model. i think they just repainted and redetailed the 6ft model - the one with the removable saucer section, i think - for generations. but if i remember correctly, they reused farpoint footage of the saucer separation sequence!
but if i remember correctly, they reused farpoint footage of the saucer separation sequence!
I thought this was debunked earlier in the thread? In any case, it's highly doubtful as film resolution is upwards of 4K and tv rez is much lower, 480i, especially at that time, in addition to it being old footage by that time. It makes no sense.
Yeah, they did all new effects for the film. The camera angle and lighting for the Generations separation sequence isn't even right when compared to the Encounter at Farpoint separation. Besides, like japetus said, you can't use TV effects on the big screen because they'll look like crap due to the resolution. The current display standard for "standard" (squareish) resolution TVs isn't even 720p, it's 480i. It might have even been less in 1987, so those effects wouldn't work on the big screen. Also, they weren't filming the TNG effects in widescreen, they were done in a 4:3 (or 1:33:1) aspect ratio, Generations was done in a 2:35:1 aspect ratio.
I thought this was debunked earlier in the thread? In any case, it's highly doubtful as film resolution is upwards of 4K and tv rez is much lower, 720 pixels, especially at that time, in addition to it being old footage by that time. It makes no sense.
Surprise! The internet was wrong!
If it's there, someone should. As any of us who work in graphics (like myself) knows, you just can't use footage in that way, it'll be crap any way you slice it.
i dont think there ever was an 8ft model. i think they just repainted and redetailed the 6ft model - the one with the removable saucer section, i think - for generations. but if i remember correctly, they reused farpoint footage of the saucer separation sequence!
how bout that, I always thought there was three models used over all through out the TNG tv series
Its this picture that throws me,
I understand now that they primarily used a 6ft and 4ft . So was the smaller one used for shots with a Borg cube to make it look tiny?
*EDIT* okay wikipedia cleared it up for me.
Originally they had the 6ft Model, for saucer separation, and 2 ft model.
The 4ft model was built later ( for season three onwards )
The 6ft model was indeed the one on sale @ Christie's auction house
I thought this was debunked earlier in the thread? In any case, it's highly doubtful as film resolution is upwards of 4K and tv rez is much lower, 480i, especially at that time, in addition to it being old footage by that time. It makes no sense.
That's interesting, I thought I saw a documentary about the making of the first episode and they got ILM to do the effects on 35mm film, which made sense when I found out they were re-composited for a couple of shots in Generations, I had no reason to suspect that was wrong until now
That's interesting, I thought I saw a documentary about the making of the first episode and they got ILM to do the effects on 35mm film, which made sense when I found out they were re-composited for a couple of shots in Generations, I had no reason to suspect that was wrong until now
I wouldn't be surprised if they did do the effects since it was basically a mini-movie and ILM has done the effects for Star Trek films since ST2.
Most of the effect shots from Generations were new, however, I can think of at least one that was recycled from the ILM shots from the series, when Picard is giving his captain's log right before the Stellar Cartography scene, you can see that it's quality is slightly worse that the rest, and that the Enterprise model was the original from the series, rather than the repainted one used in the movie. (It was the same model, but repainted)
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Most of the effect shots from Generations were new, however, I can think of at least one that was recycled from the ILM shots from the series, when Picard is giving his captain's log right before the Stellar Cartography scene, you can see that it's quality is slightly worse that the rest.
this is one I was quite sure was reused, you can even see the far left has a dark edge, like they needed to go too far towards the edge of the film to make it work in widescreen
ILM did do the VFX for Encounter at Farpoint. Since the episode's exterior views of the Enterprise were used in pretty much every episode they got screen credits for pretty much every episode. The final product was transferred to video and shown at 480i, but it was originally shot on film. The saucer separation and the Enterprise "swooping" down and away from the camera were reuses of the film from these shots. They just enhanced the glows and changed the coloring a bit.
how bout that, I always thought there was three models used over all through out the TNG tv series
Its this picture that throws me,
I understand now that they primarily used a 6ft and 4ft . So was the smaller one used for shots with a Borg cube to make it look tiny?
*EDIT* okay wikipedia cleared it up for me.
Originally they had the 6ft Model, for saucer separation, and 2 ft model.
The 4ft model was built later ( for season three onwards )
The 6ft model was indeed the one on sale @ Christie's auction house
The 2ft model is the one used for distance shots. For example, take a look at frames from the opening sequence, before and after the flash in the warp jump animation.
ILM did do the VFX for Encounter at Farpoint. Since the episode's exterior views of the Enterprise were used in pretty much every episode they got screen credits for pretty much every episode. The final product was transferred to video and shown at 480i, but it was originally shot on film. The saucer separation and the Enterprise "swooping" down and away from the camera were reuses of the film from these shots. They just enhanced the glows and changed the coloring a bit.
Ah, interesting. Now that makes more sense. Still, some of those shots seem like they could be coincidence unless there is some documented proof of that. I don't want to be a pixel hunter so I'll just leave it to the Treksperts I guess.
Ah, interesting. Now that makes more sense. Still, some of those shots seem like they could be coincidence unless there is some documented proof of that. I don't want to be a pixel hunter so I'll just leave it to the Treksperts I guess.
I thought so too at first. But it's more than coincidence...Since I have Photoshop open...
It's certainly the same model, looking at the details - especially the window illumination. The angle is so incredibly similar that if it were two completely different shots filmed years apart, they would have had to have gone to considerable effort to match them - and for what reason? I'd say its far more likely that they are the same shot, as filmed by ILM over 7 years earlier, with better post production and a far higher quality scan.
What it really does show is high much detail we really lost in the Trek series that were edited on video, as opposed to film. Such a shame that can't re-scan all the other shots like you can with the Farpoint sequences.
Although, it could prove cost-effective for them to go back and rescan all shots from Farpoint because - as has been mentioned - a whole heap of stock flybys of the Enterprise were created by ILM for the pilot. If I understand correctly, it was more than just the shots shown in Farpoint as they knew they would need more shots for an eventual series, if picked up.
If rescanning those sequences reduced the overall amount of new CGI-based content that needed to be created from scratch for the series to be put on Blu-ray by, say, 5-10%, then it could very well be worth Paramount doing it.
But enough of that. Apologies for highjacking your thread, Tobias.
It's certainly the same model, looking at the details - especially the window illumination. The angle is so incredibly similar that if it were two completely different shots filmed years apart, they would have had to have gone to considerable effort to match them - and for what reason? I'd say its far more likely that they are the same shot, as filmed by ILM over 7 years earlier, with better post production and a far higher quality scan.
What it really does show is high much detail we really lost in the Trek series that were edited on video, as opposed to film. Such a shame that can't re-scan all the other shots like you can with the Farpoint sequences.
Although, it could prove cost-effective for them to go back and rescan all shots from Farpoint because - as has been mentioned - a whole heap of stock flybys of the Enterprise were created by ILM for the pilot. If I understand correctly, it was more than just the shots shown in Farpoint as they knew they would need more shots for an eventual series, if picked up.
If rescanning those sequences reduced the overall amount of new CGI-based content that needed to be created from scratch for the series to be put on Blu-ray by, say, 5-10%, then it could very well be worth Paramount doing it.
But enough of that. Apologies for highjacking your thread, Tobias.
I'd love to see the TNG series, etc. in HD... with the original FX if possible...
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But basically, any shot where the Enterprise was being dwarfed, and i mean seriously dwarfed by something else, that's the 2 footer. So for instance, apart from the distance warp jumps, you're also looking at the phasering of hte D'arsay archive from "Masks" (incidentally one of the first CGI shots used in TNG), and um.. well, not many others now that I think about it. The 4 footer took most of that role after the 2nd season. Incidentally, that's why the SFX team invented the "warp flash" from the engines, they weren't originally going to have them except the 6 to 2 foot transition needed some way to mask it due to detail diferences,
and Chris, biggest problem with TNG remastering is the first 2 seasons were rendered on VHS (with their special effects), rather then film like the rest of the trek series. So the first two seasons need to be completely recut from masters then have SFX applied. No way to get around it, at least according to Mike Okuda.
From all of the articles and documentaries and blogs I've read over the years, it was my understanding that ILM reused the Saucer Sep footage shot for "Farpoint". They rescanned the negative and must have either re-timed the color, or re-composited the the elements. Whatever the process, Its obvious on the blu-ray, because you can see stars through the Saucer section as it moves away from the Secondary hull. They show as white dots that stay in place while the saucer is moving. This is a sacrifice made in the days of optical effects, altering the opacity of an element so that there were no visible matte-lines around it.
Here are two quick shots of the artwork I created for the Gameforge booth at the GamesCom 2011 - the outside art is about 22meter long, the inside slightly less. Unfortunately, the print and the light settings at the booth are slightly suboptimal, so itAâs not as bright and distinct as it was in the original artwork. I may post that in a few days once I get permission.
Here are two quick shots of the artwork I created for the Gameforge booth at the GamesCom 2011 - the outside art is about 22meter long, the inside slightly less. Unfortunately, the print and the light settings at the booth are slightly suboptimal, so itAâs not as bright and distinct as it was in the original artwork. I may post that in a few days once I get permission.
I really loved the trailer for this game, and nice Tobias.
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Formerly furswift
Toby said he based his model on Ed whitefire's blueprints, which were the 4 footer and I only know of the hull shape being remade to look like the 6 footer, so he didn't really answer the question at the time
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Yea, personally, I like the 6 footers better, and in general the overall design.
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i dont think there ever was an 8ft model. i think they just repainted and redetailed the 6ft model - the one with the removable saucer section, i think - for generations. but if i remember correctly, they reused farpoint footage of the saucer separation sequence!
I thought this was debunked earlier in the thread? In any case, it's highly doubtful as film resolution is upwards of 4K and tv rez is much lower, 480i, especially at that time, in addition to it being old footage by that time. It makes no sense.
i guess i have to go correct memory-alpha now
Surprise! The internet was wrong!
If it's there, someone should. As any of us who work in graphics (like myself) knows, you just can't use footage in that way, it'll be crap any way you slice it.
how bout that, I always thought there was three models used over all through out the TNG tv series
Its this picture that throws me,
I understand now that they primarily used a 6ft and 4ft . So was the smaller one used for shots with a Borg cube to make it look tiny?
*EDIT* okay wikipedia cleared it up for me.
Originally they had the 6ft Model, for saucer separation, and 2 ft model.
The 4ft model was built later ( for season three onwards )
The 6ft model was indeed the one on sale @ Christie's auction house
I wouldn't be surprised if they did do the effects since it was basically a mini-movie and ILM has done the effects for Star Trek films since ST2.
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x07/haven000.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x03/nakednow001.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generationshd/generationshd0976.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generationshd/generationshd0977.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generationshd/generationshd0978.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s1/1x01/farpoint1_113.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generationshd/generationshd1421.jpg
You can even see that the model has the original paint job done for the show, and not the repainted one for the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqRhLEHgwgTKxsalM5YznYQ
Formerly furswift
Ah, interesting. Now that makes more sense. Still, some of those shots seem like they could be coincidence unless there is some documented proof of that. I don't want to be a pixel hunter so I'll just leave it to the Treksperts I guess.
You beat me to it.
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I thought so too at first. But it's more than coincidence...Since I have Photoshop open...
VFX_Comparison.jpg
It's certainly the same model, looking at the details - especially the window illumination. The angle is so incredibly similar that if it were two completely different shots filmed years apart, they would have had to have gone to considerable effort to match them - and for what reason? I'd say its far more likely that they are the same shot, as filmed by ILM over 7 years earlier, with better post production and a far higher quality scan.
What it really does show is high much detail we really lost in the Trek series that were edited on video, as opposed to film. Such a shame that can't re-scan all the other shots like you can with the Farpoint sequences.
Although, it could prove cost-effective for them to go back and rescan all shots from Farpoint because - as has been mentioned - a whole heap of stock flybys of the Enterprise were created by ILM for the pilot. If I understand correctly, it was more than just the shots shown in Farpoint as they knew they would need more shots for an eventual series, if picked up.
If rescanning those sequences reduced the overall amount of new CGI-based content that needed to be created from scratch for the series to be put on Blu-ray by, say, 5-10%, then it could very well be worth Paramount doing it.
But enough of that. Apologies for highjacking your thread, Tobias.
I'd love to see the TNG series, etc. in HD... with the original FX if possible...
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
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http://www.trekplace.com/article05.html
But basically, any shot where the Enterprise was being dwarfed, and i mean seriously dwarfed by something else, that's the 2 footer. So for instance, apart from the distance warp jumps, you're also looking at the phasering of hte D'arsay archive from "Masks" (incidentally one of the first CGI shots used in TNG), and um.. well, not many others now that I think about it. The 4 footer took most of that role after the 2nd season. Incidentally, that's why the SFX team invented the "warp flash" from the engines, they weren't originally going to have them except the 6 to 2 foot transition needed some way to mask it due to detail diferences,
and Chris, biggest problem with TNG remastering is the first 2 seasons were rendered on VHS (with their special effects), rather then film like the rest of the trek series. So the first two seasons need to be completely recut from masters then have SFX applied. No way to get around it, at least according to Mike Okuda.
Current Projects:
Ambassador Class
As for the remastering, ah.
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I really loved the trailer for this game, and nice Tobias.
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Gaming OC 12GB
1TB NVMe SSD, 2 x 1GB SATA SSD, 4TB external HDD
32 GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro