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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-

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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Service hatches and misc doodahs. A few of those SMD looking resistors/cap things and gold vane things.
    emissary-0446.jpg
    emissary-0447.jpg
    ashleytingerlennier1LoopholexiaorobearFreakBolianAdmiralpubliusrLizzy777StarCruiser
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Small update. .
    emissary-0449.jpg

    emissary-0450.jpg
    FreakBolianAdmiralLoopholeashleytingerLizzy777publiusrStarCruiser
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Welp that time of year has come so projects will be getting split about.
    [edit]
    Well shit all the work done on the TOS connie vray conversion is gone. Thing wont open without crashing the client. Not happy means other files or conversions might be at risk of loss to this sort of crap. Not changed my install any since I worked on these last, not updated or upgraded vray either. Only possible change is GPUs. Crashes every time I click on the viewport tools. Resaving does not work importing just the objects does not work etc.

    OK got a file to open and move but I dunno at what stage of the conversion process it is at as it is file 7 and 9 being the last save with a 14day gap. SIGH.

    Only thing I can think of there is a junk object in scene that is causing the viewports to crash the client.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    UH OK I do not get it. After crashing max 8 or more times, the files are loading. Loaded file 001 then file 007 and figured I would give the final file a go (009) and it opens and allows me to spin it around etc.

    I do not get it at all.
    Think what I will do is group select rename then go through it and delete anything not the ship itself (major PITA) to see if there is a object in there that has no selectable gizmo or associated object. I am noticing that mental ray is still calling for DLLS in the damned file even though I blanked the entire mesh (standard mat applied) and has merged the ship into a entirely new scene. Really hate how max just hangs on to crap and you cannot cleanly eliminate these things in conversions.

    Anyhow once I do that it will be time to figure out where I left off on this one. I do not think I completed the conversion. Not sure if I will mess with the ship itself though. Plan at one time was to update her detail and add in stuff CGI allows that a model made for 13" color tvs from the 60s could not. Also replace those flathead screws with some other details etc.
    ANYHOW this is going to be worked on alongside current work.

    tos-connie-vray-031.jpg
    BolianAdmirallewisnivenLizzy777publiusrStarCruiserwolfman
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    OHHHH yeah lots of broken stuff on her mostly self ilum materials. Deleted all gizmos not geo and a mess of dupe files (dunno why they were there) and imported the hdri skylight from the current project into it.
    Might be getting huge FPS numbers but boy transitioning from one view to another is bleargh heh.

    Need to correct some materials too registry for some reason is glossy and really chalky in the diffuse. It is one issue I have had since moving off mental Ray is that balance from med gray to black. A nace deep gray is almost black in the RGB values. It is almost like the gradient in grayscale values is crushed on the dark end and overly expanded in the lighter values in some artifical way. Tried doing various gamma adjustments. Good example is the filth in the connection of the struts to the hull or nacelles. It is not that crushed in the bitmaps and not that crushed in mental ray.

    tos-connie-vray-032.jpg
    BolianAdmirallewisnivenLizzy777StarCruiserwolfman
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    edited September 8 #2377
    Bussards lit but bleah.
    tos-connie-vray-033.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-034.jpg
    Second one is brighter bulbs but meh as well means I have to tune the caps to get what I want. Need to do some looking at refs too to remember what I am targeting vs what I had.

    {EDIT}
    Ok I keep finding mental ray materials all over and well the domes are one of those things so it explains some things. Odd how well it does render in vray though heh. NOW to try to translate this into vray as transparency and color gradients etc work very differently in vray.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    BolianAdmiralFreakashleytingerLizzy777LeoBerlinStarCruiserwolfman
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Really stinks Vray does not have a thin wall cheat like MR so having to add in thickness to all the caps. What sucks is it is adding odd faceted artifacts.

    Render sans outer caps.
    tos-connie-vray-035.jpg

    tos-connie-vray-036.jpg
    Last image shows not only that segmented artifact but other issues that I need to figure out. Probably going to have to unify the shaders or space the caps out more than I really want. I do not know if using translucent transparent materials of different types on them would work. (doubt it)
    tos-connie-vray-037.jpg
    BolianAdmirallewisnivenFreakLizzy777LeoBerlinwolfmanStarCruiserpubliusr
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    edited September 8 #2379
    Ok getting there. Might lighten them up some. Need to go through and do some archdesign hunting though. Way too much of today wasted on this sigh. I am guessing it is the large bitmaps that cause this to lag for so much after rendering. I either stop rendering or when the render stops it just hangs for 2 or 3 min before I can do anything. It isnt like my system is anemic or anything 3900X 32gig 3800ram and a NVME, only the gpu sorta sucks a rx570. All the files are on a secondary NVME drive so no root drive lag etc. SHRUG. Anyhow the lag is irritating to no ends as any simple change or experiment means a lot of waiting. Its 2021 sheesh not 1998. Then again just one of these 1440p renders would probably take a week on a p2 400mhz system. >_> let alone opening the file which is nearly 4min here.

    tos-connie-vray-039.jpg

    tos-connie-vray-040.jpg

    A slight cheat rendered with the inner domes with a very slight self ilum gi.
    tos-connie-vray-041.jpg
    Tried fooling with gamma again but yuck made things worse. I can really see it in editing gradients and colors in the mat editor. It is set to use the output renderer vs scanline or other built in ones. So when I change say gray gradients you can really see the difference in color in the color picker vs the gradient or solid color results. Only guess is I have something burried somewhere goofed up. SO used to scrolling long menus I screw up drop downs a lot as vray just hovering near them will activate them and scroll. really irksome and very stupid. UI elements like drop downs should not scroll when near or on top they should only do so when clicked. Anyhow be it that or just some hidden menu I do not know of is likely the issue here. So I will have to muck about to get more dynamic range in my maps and less crushy results. Even if that means adjusting them in a composite shader.
    tos-connie-vray-042.png
    btw gamma is set to 2.2, all monitors display the gradient sample to adjust to properly so "SHRUG"

    I found this
    https://area.autodesk.com/tutorials/linear_workflow_and_gamma_correction_within_vray_and_3ds_max/
    but quite useless as I do not have the bitmap options in 2019. . . go fig. Clicking affect X radio boxes ends up in blown out mat editor. it works sorta as my choices appear ok but it means working with the crushed darks and effects output. Never had issues with this in MR so dunno. ATM I am just gonna live with it as messing with it to work how others say so far just makes it worse.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    ashleytingerLizzy777LeoBerlinpubliusrStarCruiser
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    edited September 8 #2380
    Ok attempt to make the grills look like metal instead of clipped bright things with holes in and a few test renders to check details like the ships turned off butt lights and a screwed up rear sensor (obs dome or whatever it is, it is way tooo fuzzzy) Red beacon looks dead too.
    tos-connie-vray-043.jpg

    tos-connie-vray-044.jpg

    tos-connie-vray-045.jpg

    Still unsure what is up with the saturation but meh, easy to kill in post vs putting it back in I guess. . . Textures still need revision anyhow WAY too sloppy in places. Need to hook up the cintiq back up and get at those.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777LeoBerlinBolianAdmiralashleytingerLoopholeFreakStarCruisercaveat_imperatorwolfman
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Lots of arguing with the renderer again. multi sub objects are dodgy when it comes to emissive materials and hiding elements and stuff. Apparently in vray your not visible to the camera objects NEED to have receive shadows and cast shadows on to light things up. SHRUG. Somehow vray knows it is hidden so they just do not cast shadows. NOW this will be an issue later on if I ever want to have something hidden from camera but allow it to either bounce light cast shadows or accept shadows from say color tinted things when it is another color tinted thing, if that makes sense. . . lol.

    Got those right of way lights fixed messed with bussards yet again and dealt with the spine sensor and that signal light and related holes. Need to fix the pylon grills and find 2 arch mat materials on the nacelles than start finding orphaned materials in multi sub mats. Really hate how I cannot edit these or obliterate them. Some correctly over wright but if it was a object I had as a larger whole when I assigned IDs the orphaned ones still stick around. The PCB plate in that sensor dome is a good example it is just a milky green disc but the material assigned to it had 6 other materials in a multi sub. Just replacing the green did not work I had to apply a new material then reapply the green PCB one. Go fig. Anyhow I now need to go through and verify every emissive material is properly creating light and not just reflecting or glowing.

    Also that crash on load thing is something to do with shaded objects if I open then change the shaded viewport to wireframe it wont crash. . . . . I think it has something to do with shading arch mat materials in the viewport. Also that terrible max just vanishes crash bug is back. Again happens all the time I am editing out arch viz materials.

    BUSSARDS. . . . I am really tempted to render the c7 bulbs as transparent shells with a filament inside. I just do not know how well a white filament will properly hotspot through a transparent shell in vray. In MR I never was able to get real white clipping on colored bulbs they always just clipped to a shade of the tinted shell. Also debating how much I really want to tune to exactly match the ones on the Studio Model. EG do the orange peachy pink matte domes. I am still arguing with the whole dark vanes as this was one thing the studio model did not exhibit. You could see the silver of the vanes through the domes unless the bussard was in full shade. Good example is the stock footage comped into the warp out from that Station K7 (think that is the name) They appear a deep red with the bulbs lighting things up.


    ANYHOW wall of text over here is the render. . . . . .

    tos-connie-vray-050.jpg
    OK yup this damned needs cast shadows on crap means I have to detach all emission objects as non visible to camera objects still cast shadows and that defeats the whole purpose of hiding the object and letting it create light. So I guess that trick is dead.

    You can see them above the green right of way markers on the saucer. I prefer not to use gizmos as they reflect in the domes and produce a more direct light, not to mention need way too much tuning per gizmo.
    tos-connie-vray-051.jpg
    erm that rear dome needs dimming down.
    ashleytingerBolianAdmiralLizzy777lewisnivenStarCruiser
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Ok I think I managed to excise all the mental ray materials. Now time to tune and update textures and some of the materials.
    Advantage is though these 1440p images are between 1 to 5 min each. I think I was pushing 30min+ before. EXP when the bussards were on show so vray is much faster in that regard even with what feels to me less control.

    tos-connie-vray-058.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-059.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-060.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-061.jpgtos-connie-vray-062.jpg
    tos-connie-vray-063.jpg
    BolianAdmiralLizzy777LoopholeP5ych0p4thdhgfasheBrandenbergStarCruiserFreakcaveat_imperatorwolfmanand 1 other.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • publiusrpubliusr289 Posts: 1,424Member
    Perfect. I hope the computer issues clear up.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Ok a quick composite test run and more time fiddling and doing other things I find I need to adjust things some. I think I am going to dim the bussards greatly so I can work with them in post. Means not so nice WIP images and spending another day fooling with the stupid things but meh. Also thinking of altering the internals some to replicate some of the examples in the viewmaster slides.

    I dunno going forward how much I will want to replicate these old images. While they are 35mm quality (well some loss due to scanning and various people likely saving them as jpg over and over before I got them) I am not sure I need to go that far as I wont be replacing TOS footage just making images. It is the same argument about the idea of adding detail to the ship that could have been there but lost in 60s tv rez. Heck even these viewmaster images show there was so much more there that I ever knew prior.

    Anyhow image is a 5600X3200 image in comp then sampled down to 4k.
    tos-connie-vray-072.jpg

    Examples of the viewmaster images and how the 60s comp affected stock footage and some of the odd results. Most are due to the spill from the blue screen they used. (bounced light)
    viewmasrer-samples.jpg
    Original images linked I think in this thread on imgur (I do not remember the links or account anymore) just search my nick and conne refs.
    LoopholeBolianAdmiralLizzy777ashleytingerFreakStarCruiserwolfmanWarp Propulsion Laboratorypubliusr
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Took a break from screwing my eyes up at oversized textures and drawn out materials tuning to do some modeling. I know it is just a grill thing some holes tubes and box things. . . . . Does slow it down that it is all on a angled curve. Renders are all much closer than this model is intended to be used. Then again the option I guess is there now. lol.

    emissary-0453.jpg

    emissary-0454.jpg


    ashleytingerBolianAdmiralxiaorobearlewisnivenOstermondStarCruiserLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • OstermondOstermond0 Posts: 1Member
    your work never ceases to blow my mind.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Copper test, more like real copper than copper paint but I did not want to resort to bitmaps. Still struggling to get the gloss or "specular" to mottle the way I want in vray. Still keep falling back to the mental ray stuff and that just makes a mess of things. Stuff like diffuse roughness does not really do anything unless it is specified in the BDRF section ( I think either case 0 or 1 makes no visual difference.) ANYHOW wasted a good 2hrs with this so I will stick with this material. I do need to relearn how max sets up mats so I can save these things and refer to them in other models. In the past I just managed it by hand to unify my materials across models, least ones that would be used together or are of the same "universe" But with the changes in renderers and versions of max I have sort of lost that archive as well as having to start over. I will probably revisit my other metallic mats on this model such as the gold flat gold satin chrome etc.
    emissary-0455.jpg


    Eh, maybe a bit too drab when applied to the mesh vs the overall test. might bling it up some for visuals.
    emissary-0456.jpg
    emissary-0457.jpg


    BolianAdmiralwolfmanashleytingerLoopholeStarCruiserLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • LoopholeLoophole32 Posts: 49Member
    I always love to see ships use real materials on the hull instead of just made-up tritanium.
    Standing among giants
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4609 BurntforniaPosts: 4,631Member
    Some more bits in the pit.
    emissary-0462.jpg

    emissary-0463.jpg
    Lizzy777BolianAdmiralashleytinger
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • StarshipStarship311 São Paulo - BrasilPosts: 1,866Member
    I love all the little bits and pieces that you put in your ships. B)
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