Greetings!

Welcome to Scifi-Meshes.com! Click one of these buttons to join in on the fun.

3D-= MKF random trek thread =-

1414244464778

Posts

  • BlueNeumannBlueNeumann332 Posts: 1,089Member
    I really like those blue lights and panelling.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1293
    Not much done the weekend seems to go by like a bad fart, next I noticed it was already Monday.

    I decided to have a go at shrouding the bussard some and make some interesting glow traces by overlaying it.

    tsukuru-nx-0782.jpg

    tsukuru-nx-0783.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777FreaklewisnivenBrandenberg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Well, sheeeut. I found out why there is no render OIpt v6 for 2017. 2017 MR is just crapped up and a nightmare. I am shocked I have not run into more issues as of yet. I did install v5 for 2016 in and it seems to do something. Cleaned up a lot of the noise and translucent or thick materials that blur stuff behind them seem to look a lot nicer but clearly there are some major issues under the hood. So I think I either give up mental ray and just abandon all current projects and past ones and move to arnold or somehow find a copy of 2016.
    So far I am having most issues with speed, and stuff like light emitting surfaces. Either through the glow (lum) shader or the self ilum parameters built into the MR arch mats.

    Anyhow have a look at one of the creators post lists at the autodesk forums and well loads of little issues. I have found others through google as well but it bodes fairly poorly.

    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/209310

    More I read the more it looks like MR is dead. I dunno what is up with vray in those regards but it seems things have closed int he intervening years since I was last looking at what was going on. SHEESH.
    Sadly I just have to put up with it for now as I have a project I cannot learn Arnold or something else in time for. GRRRRR
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1295
    Ok finding more issues with max.
    1 stupid light gizmo display in viewport is back. Appears only 8 lights are possible in scene. So in order to see the results of them I have to turn them off or delete them. (likely latter as this was the case in the past)
    2 displaying the ship with lighting is a pain too as often it just looks like this,
    tsukuru-nx-0789.png
    Also really degrades vp performance from 50fps to 18.

    If I am lucky I can get it to shade the polys. . . But then as it only displays 8 lights max it is still quite useless to me.
    tsukuru-nx-0790.png

    So yeah about to put the 770gtx back in and revert to max 2013 and loose all work since I started this bullshittery with this damned crap AMD gpu. First it wont work in win8 works soso in win7 dp connection keeps doing black screen randomly and all the 3dsmax issues pushing me to newer versions.

    Might just finish up this last job and quit. Quickly loosing patience with this and rather read books or do something else.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Bleah just as bad in 2019. Actually performance is worse. lol
    Decided to try wiping all lights from the scene and re rig but already I am having issues
    1 everything is too light. similar set up but ambient is all over the place. Looks to be lit with default light rig.

    So how it looked in viewport prior to removal of old lights and turning on of ship lighting.
    tsukuru-nx-0791.png

    How it appears with new world lights and skylight. I am missing one key light in this as it would just make the results brighter.
    tsukuru-nx-0792.png

    Does not seem to render any different now to test multiple light gizmos active and see if I can get past 8 units. Nope it is limited to 8 lights active in a scene. So useless. Like going back to 2006.
    Image shows lights, 5 units + skylight and 2 omnis. NOW there might be some switch or option somewhere I do not know about yet. Googling has yet to produce results related to my search or of any help.
    tsukuru-nx-0793.png
    8th gizmo does not light the scene.

    so yeah uh sigh.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ViperViper1213 Posts: 682Administrator
    I didn't realize you were using max 2017. That was the worst version in the past 5 years or so. Mental Ray is also long past its expiration date. 2018 was a solid version. Can't comment on the AMD issues as I have an nvidia card. I also didn't realize people use the viewport for previewing so much. I only trust the render window, heh.

    BTW, Vray is probably the best renderer for 3ds max right now. Heck, might be best renderer period.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1298
    Ok I think I got the light thing fixed I need to set skylight as ambient light or some such and I can add 11 gizmos and they light the scene.
    tsukuru-nx-0794.png
    Does nerf the performance some. 13~8fps vs 40~50

    To set it go to the viewport menus above each viewport. Click 3rd option in the one that shows DX or user defined. Choose Per-View Presets. Set rendering level to advanced. This allows you to adjust the stuff below. check, Skylight as Ambient Color. WHY this turns the ability to light a scene with more than 8 lights is beyond me.

    A result in google with max 2009 limits had me look for the lighting and shadows quality as that affectd the hard limit. Sadly in 2017 it does nothing and is burried in this field (mentioned above)


    EDIT ok what is funny turning that OFF does nothing now too. So maybe just turning on ADVANCED in that drop down did it. Sigh just one ulcer inducing thing after another.

    YUP ok just turning on advanced will open the option to display multiple lights in a viewport.

    SIGH


    still at a loss as to why it looks so different but meh just need to adjust to it. Performance sucks though.

    Also noticed now I cannot turn off shadows in DX mode anymore and have it stick. >_<
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Messing about with a add on plug for max to replace the conform tool. Yes I am using a bit of a bodgy base mesh with holes in to wrap the plane with holes in but if you ignore then errors from that kinda neat. Just gotta think of how I would use this. Maybe use it to stick on decals over whacky shapes.

    I can see using this to patch in stuff on ugly mesh forms.

    tsukuru-nx-0795.jpg
    tsukuru-nx-0796.jpg
    Lizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1300
    Viper wrote: »
    I didn't realize you were using max 2017. That was the worst version in the past 5 years or so. Mental Ray is also long past its expiration date. 2018 was a solid version. Can't comment on the AMD issues as I have an nvidia card. I also didn't realize people use the viewport for previewing so much. I only trust the render window, heh.

    BTW, Vray is probably the best renderer for 3ds max right now. Heck, might be best renderer period.

    Yeah I was looking at 2016 but couldn't find a copy it was either 2017 or 2019, I just count I was lucky to have both to choose from. Well I could, but well. AHEM. . . . . plan is likely to migrate over to 2019 but it has as many issues in the same places. And atm I cannot justify vray. I know in the past it was a lot like MR as I could share settings and set ups with those using it.

    Right now I have to use something I do not need to reinvent everything with. So it is either broken UI 2013 or 2017 with other warts elsewhere or throw this 570 card in the trash and go back to using the 770gtx.

    I still have doubts about if I can accept Arnold. Mostly the materials and shaders available for it. Just feels too much like going back a decade. but then again I know little about it atm.

    Yeah viewports are a req when a render takes 45min to 3 hours. Really suck balls to waste a hour to find the light is not exactly where you want it. Even more so as the gizmos in max are not the best and all you see is a black blob of a ship with just a few lights on it. I wouldnt be so bad if you could be limited to 8 lights and denote which ones but in the past and with this BS I was just going through you have no choice what light is going to be active in the viewport. And just imagine if a piss ant ship with self ilum is a PITA what a architectural landscape would be like to rig with no cheap fast sample or realtime result. Or a room say a hotel lobby with possibly hundreds of lights you have to set up. All of those are often scenes that take 10s of hours if not more to render out.
    Yeah maybe iray or one of the gpu previs outputs might help but those are not that fast either. Well I guess if you got a titan or a 2080ti and a not 5yr old K sku cpu.

    Anyhow once sotl is done I am going to reconsider if iw ill continue with 3d move off max or try arnold out. The fun is quickly just draining away for me this last 6mo or so.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla694 HelsinkiPosts: 2,753Administrator
    Not sure if this will help you specifically, but I just stumbled up a piece of software that converts Vray, Corona and Legacy scenes to Arnold. I'm using Modo myself these days, so no idea how well it actually works, but here it is anyway. :)

    https://www.masd.dk/arnoldconverter/
    Comco: i entered it manually in the back end
    Join our fancy Discord Server!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    yeah I would have to look at it to see if it can translate the arch mats, I dunno how much vray has diverged from Mental Ray to know if that would even work. A lot of what is on there wont matter much it is mostly materials I have a concern about. And the real issue is the limited options in arnold.

    From what I have seen it lacks more than 5/6ths of what MR had. Simple stuff like a composite shader where I can layer maps like you do in a photoshop layer. It is part of what I mean about going back to 2008, the days of stacking mix and blend shaders in scanline.

    I have though only spent a day farting around in it, so I might have missed some features.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ViperViper1213 Posts: 682Administrator
    Vray supports all base max maps. And the main shader still accepts specular workflow if you wish to use that instead of PBR.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1304
    https://www.alexandre-pestana.com/physically-based-shading-metallic-specular-workflows/
    what I found in google heh.

    I think arch mat is a PBR material. As for metal vs specular :shrug I have a roughness with the diffuse, then gloss and reflectance. The color slot in the gloss leads me to think it is spec.
    arch-mat.png

    Googled it and mostly all game ref so I am not up on that end of things well hell I am all self taught by clicking things vs any guides or anything to train me to know terms. I only use the arch mat. I dumped scanline mats pretty quickly as they did not respond the same way in MR or with other materials within MR and by that time the older mental ray materials were being phased out or started showing age with rendering bugs etc.

    Anyhow thanks for the link as mentioned I will have to have a go with it to see what happens. >_> I have to admit I did not delve much into Max's converter it has but most of that converts from the look of it my arch mats to scanline and well yuck lol. I think the converter is more interested in particle effects and other more animation based or sfx based stuff vs just a model, glows, and surfacing.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1305
    Oh man, I am suppose to be doing scenes up and some cheapo renders. Getting tired of turning on and off huge lists of lights to do self ilum passes (EXP now that mr fails to "glow" them and all the ugly clipping now) ANYHOW thought to see if there was a hidden setting to turn it all off and on, gave up decided to look for plugins or scripts that would allow it and totally SIDE TRACKED.

    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/uv-tools-3
    uvtools_short.gif
    Watch the gif for a bit lol, least for someone who HATE unwrapping things that looks like gold. Ok bogus have to pay for. Wish they would categorize these as pay free demo etc right off vs following links. Oh well it looks like a good toy but wont pay without demo or trial.

    still not found anything to let me turn off all light gizmos at once. guess I gotta get clicking on all 100 gizmos. Well probably not that bad as I skimped on some of the ships rigging. But still yuck.

    Ok after I turned them all off by hand in light lister I found this

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz9iolsDTZfjMXg2Qi1QSG1jUjQ/view
    YES a damned yt video but description gives a link to the file.
    Maybe I should add these to the max toys thread.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1306
    Ok Tested the "light switch" script. Works great, sadly no icon built into max that is a light switchplate! ended up using the lightbulb icon.

    how to install sans a wall of useless history and other bullshit people seem to like to add to a tut.

    1 download the file and unpack:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz9iolsDTZfjMXg2Qi1QSG1jUjQ/view
    2 open max, go to the scripting drop down menu choose MAXSCRIPT EDITOR
    3 in the window that opens open the MCR file. (do not put it into a scripts folder etc according to others it will slow load times)
    Once the script is open you can alter things like the category etc if you want things YOUR way.
    4 evaluate the script by pressing ctrl+e this will set it up to be in max but not evaluate every time you start max. ALT: go to tools (in maxscript) select evaluate all
    5 Now go to Customize drop down select customize user interface. This is to place a icon/button onto the UI.
    6 Choose the toolbars tab, go to category roll down and look for MiRi-tools (if you have not changed it) and you should see lights_switch
    7 click that and drag it to a position in a toolbar where you want it. It will be a text button when this is done.
    8 To assign a icon just right click the icon and click edit button appearance then scroll through the selections and choose one of your liking.
    9 sit back and enjoy turning all light gizmos on and off with a single click. KIM this wont alter a hdri set in the enviro slot.

    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/how-to-load-and-run-a-mcr-script-file/td-p/5459471

    This talks about other ways to do this. I used to drop all the files into a folder in max and apparently (according to multiple posts) this is a way to slow max starting up as it will reevaluate the scripts every time.

    Drove me up the wall looking for info just long drawn out 10min videos or stupid pages of text going on about this or that bullshit thing.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • SeanPSeanP204 Posts: 253Member
    Hey MKF!
    You mentioned you were having problems with MAX earlier in your posts.
    I had some really weird shadowing issues that popped up on my TOS Battlestar Galactica build that I just could not get rid of.
    Some of the geometry would show up completely black if the camera was at a certain angle, but fine if you zoomed in on it or changed the angle.
    I also had some really weird problems using the UVW Unwrap.
    I decided to try using Blender.
    Still learning it, but I don't think I will ever go back to using MAX now.
    I'm finding modeling so much easier in Blender.
    I don't run into nearly as many funny artifact issues when doing things like a meshsmooth.
    I'm finding it mush less frustrating.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1553 CaliforniaPosts: 1,872Member
    edited October 2019 #1308
    @SeanP Interesting comment.

    @MadKoiFish This new engine design of yours is simply gorgeous. I've spent a lot of time looking at it.
    Post edited by Brandenberg on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    I have tried blender multiple time I just cannot adapt to the UI and toolset. Trust me if I could do anything but make blobs in blender or models akin to what I did in 2006 I would have moved over a long time ago. ATM this is impossible anyhow as I need to output content NOW and in the next 3months. I cannot be learning a new UI and rendering system right now hence why I opted for the solutions I am screaming at of late heh.


    I am finding a lot of the viewport whack is all hdw issues. Max is highly Nvidia tuned and tuned to particular nvidia cards. (mostly the 700usd and up ones. ) Those viewport settings overlays are a good example. They just will not work right in max 2013 unless I use outdated drivers in max (ogl, dx, software, etc) I do wonder if I sat down and did driver swaps on the gpu outside of the 3 I was willing to do this with if I could get things working on 2013.

    ATM all the 2017 and 2019 issues are the software itself and updates to mental ray that break existing plugs or old ways of setting things up. ATM the largest issue is glow objects clipping in scene and not producing the light they should be doing and the dreaded light leaks between panels that the radius interpolation they removed was a fix for.
    yeager-467.jpg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Quickly dumped random mats on this from the trek lib. A oldie. Hell I am wondering if this is even modeled to scale! heh. Plan was to quickly panel it up and punch some holes on and get it ready as a BG ship but more I look at it the more I see YUCK modeling and ideas that just do not work now. Those huge greeble pits the flat sides the flat bottom and the submerged bridge that is on a podium defeating the whole point. So, I think the only thing I will be keeping are the nacelles.
    jigoku-class-179.jpg
    jigoku-class-180.jpg
    jigoku-class-181.jpg
    jigoku-class-182.jpg

    Ohh man you can tell I just dumped stuff on this that forward torp pit on the top is just masty. I do seem to be getting way too much ambient in the renders even though it is matched to the more recent works. Replaced everything short of the scene file itself. so dunno Might have to export the objects and import into a fresh scene.
    Anyhow pics.


    Also this will be as time permits, atm time might not permit it. Not that I really need to add another TNG era ship to my fleet. Need more tmp stuff and alien ships. . . . . . or somrthing other than trek. lol.

    oh had a bit of a laugh, last file is dated sept 25 2007. . . . sheesh.
    Lizzy777ViperpubliusrRekkert
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • FreakFreak1078 Posts: 4,355Member
    edited October 2019 #1311
    I don't remember this one.
    But if it a build form 2007 that would explain it, I was not really following your work back then.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    I showcased most of my incompletes and then later complete models in the trekship o rama posts .
    The one above is here
    https://madkoifish.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/trekshiporama-vol2/
    along with a sister ship with the over under nacelles. I think by 2007 I had only been public with most models I think in 2004? prior to then it was just a casual open max once a few months thing. heh just gets me it was so long ago already.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ViperViper1213 Posts: 682Administrator
    I rather like that design. Pretty interesting :)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    edited October 2019 #1314
    Found more issues with max, note the verts. I think this is from this old file even though it has been saved in 17 already. I have not seen this in my other files. given it is 07 it means this was prior to max going to the yearly bs so max 9?? lol
    jigoku-class-183.png
    Hopefully collapsing the mesh might fix this. Nope it does not it is part of that crappy new backface cull they replaced the old one with. So not only does it not display the edges on the culled face it puts the verts to the culled face if they are not on a % of an angle change along the face flow. -_-.

    Working at hollowing out the bussard and getting it to look like something. On the fence as there is some dodgy shapes here mainly in the insets and bezels etc.
    jigoku-class-184.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    evil_genius_180Lizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801843 Posts: 9,995Member
    I really like that nacelle design.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Leaky, leaky. Given how things were moved and changed I dunno what settings to alter to eliminate this bad habit from 10yrs ago from showing up in my renders again. -_-. Ok the rerenders do not show it as much but the cut ins around the warp grids are leaking the lum glows from inside. This is an issue I have not had since 2011.

    jigoku-class-186.jpg
    jigoku-class-188.jpg
    Still tuning the warp grill lighting and fooling with materials. The matte gold just is not cutting it.
    Lizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    ripped put the small shuttle bay and lower torps for a roughed out lower hull and deflector. I think a lot of this central hull is going to go away and be rebuilt.

    jigoku-class-193.jpg

    jigoku-class-194.jpg

    jigoku-class-195.jpg
    Lizzy777ashleytingerFreakBrandenberg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ashleytingerashleytinger801 Central OhioPosts: 759Member
    I really like this design
  • publiusrpubliusr284 Posts: 1,394Member
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Ohh man you can tell I just dumped stuff on this that forward torp pit on the top is just nasty.

    Artifacts interest me--especially for alien ships.

    The over under torpedo concept--that is quite original.

    I've long wanted to see two "megaphser' tips to either side--and just above, a central torpedo tube inset into a many layered sensor done on a refit--but with more stories as it were
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish4392 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,585Member
    Ok a lot of the bits are reverts or outright rebuilds. So all the details have gone away. Started refining the joining front ends of all the objects. EG going in and matching up the subcage objects and working up areas that were a bit naff in the originals. I still have a mess of loops to add as much of it was some strangely set up stuff. It is a bit of a mess near the struts as you have overlapping objects.
    jigoku-class-196.jpg
    jigoku-class-197.jpg
    jigoku-class-198.jpg
    jigoku-class-199.jpg
    FreakashleytingerLizzy777evil_genius_180Brandenberg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Lizzy777Lizzy777455 PNWPosts: 567Member
    It's like taking an old beater to a chop shop, stripping it down and rebuilding it into a show stopper.
    "Cry 'Havoc!,' and let slip the corgies of war!"
Sign In or Register to comment.