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3DMy Star Trek Thread

11617181921

Posts

  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Not right now because I'm at work, but I think I figured it out for my D7 battlecruiser. I can take a look at it when I get home in the morning.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    I hope you are going to post this D7. Or have you already and I missed it?

    voldxelnt9ze.png
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Nope, you saw it:

    https://forums.scifi-meshes.com/discussion/comment/2017112/#Comment_2017112

    Basically, for specular, this is what I came up with. The image window that's shown is the spec map.

    z8bpnhzx0bdr.png
    MadKoiFish
    • Like - MadKoiFish on November 8, 2019.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    edited November 8 #605
    OMG - I am going try the mapping thing you did. And of course - your D7 (feeling like an idiot but I have been a bit busy and distracted lately).

    This is the light dropoff mapping. I'm sure you know you access the nodes from "Lights --> properties" in layout. Four points.
    1) In the far right gradient box, it is important to not forget to start with a number higher than 0 at the bottom of the gradient box (the "End" variable). Apparently this isn't in millimeters or meters or anything you just adjust it until your light projects about as far as you want on the model.
    2) If you change that number to a much lower one, you often appear to lose the second gradient line. It's there still - but off the bottom of the gradient box. Change it back, move both lines up much closer to the top and THEN change the number at the bottom.
    3) In case you don't know this, if you accidentally get an extra line, the little X in the white box on the far right of the line is how you delete it. I had forgotten that. You have to click right on the line to move it up or down.
    4) Turning up and down the Lux figure makes a big difference so don't forget to control that.

    6xsmyhrelz0l.png

    Here is how my lights came out. I used a "point" light just over the mesh. It seemed to work that the black and white gradient is what you use for any light. You specify the light color at the top of the first box.

    jcvb6fu0hbn1.png

    Post edited by Brandenberg on
    MadKoiFish
    • Like - MadKoiFish on November 8, 2019.
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 8, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    That's some interesting stuff about the light falloff. I haven't really played with any lights but the "Sun" and maybe some filler lights for WIP shots. And, with those, I haven't had to worry as much about falloff, but I did have to crank the intensity way up versus what I used on LW10. For the little beacon lights and whatnot, I just used luminous materials, which causes some noise, so switching those to lights in the future might be beneficial.
    And of course - your D7 (feeling like an idiot but I have been a bit busy and distracted lately).

    Heh, we all forget things. I know I sure do.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    edited November 10 #607
    So you haven't used Lightwave's other lights? Save the above graphic. You'll need it if you do. I mostly use spotlights, point lights, spherical lights, and the default "Distant" light. Is that what you mean by "Sun"?

    For instance there are 3 spotlights under the saucer of this model now to depict the lights from the bottom sensor dome. I used the above to make them fade out correctly.

    I may still adjust the running lights some but one setting isn't the answer for ALL running lights. For instance I really had to limit how far the light was cast by the light on the top rear of the bridge module. Sending it very far created a bizarre shadow on the top of the saucer.
    Post edited by Brandenberg on
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    I added some detail on the assault shuttle bays and some ports for the small travel pods seen in the TOS movie. This render is also set up like @evil_genius_180's above. I will be toning it down some. This is also the first full render using node adjusted lighting dropoff.

    pt2ne70e972o.png
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 9, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 9, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    edited November 9 #609
    Looking good. I take it you're playing around with the roughness setting to make the specular bits more and less localized. (IE: smaller or bigger specular spots for more or less plastic looking)
    So you haven't used Lightwave's other lights? Save the above graphic. You'll need it if you do. I mostly use spotlights, point lights, spherical lights, and the default "Distant" light. Is that what you mean by "Sun"?

    Well, the only ship I've built in LW2018 is the TOS Enterprise, and I converted my LW10 D7 to 2018, so I haven't had a need for spots in LW2018 yet. If I hadn't been able to get my noise mostly under control, I was going to use point lights for the running lights, but that became unnecessary. I've done that before in LW10.

    My sun is just a spherical light that's a certain distance away (a few kilometers) from my objects to simulate a solar system's star. For space renders, I find one is the most accurate, unless I need some background lighting from another source, such as bouncing off of a planet's atmosphere. For a WIP shot, I'll use multiple ones at different intensities to ensure that details show in the darker areas.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    Still the different light types existed in earlier versions of Lightwave.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Still the different light types existed in earlier versions of Lightwave.

    Yes, I know. I used to use them.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    edited November 12 #612
    You'd have to look a while to see the changes in these two images but I did a lot of remedial work on building up a richer surface texture. In other words a lot of painting. I also repaired the lighting to the saucer windows and worked on specularity. I wish I had had more time. I have a question. How does everyone paint their specularity? Do you just use black on the darker panels and white on the lighter ones, or combinations?

    crrzm7t0d98r.png
    o4ddy5chy56w.png
    Post edited by Brandenberg on
    Freak
    • Like - Freak on November 12, 2019.
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 12, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 12, 2019.
  • FreakFreak572 Posts: 3,635Member
    She is looking really good!
    Brandenberg
    • Like - Brandenberg on November 12, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Looking good.

    I don't personally go all the way black or white on specular paneling, I go between light gray and dark gray. But, that's just me.
    Brandenberg
    • Like - Brandenberg on November 12, 2019.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    Looking good.

    I don't personally go all the way black or white on specular paneling, I go between light gray and dark gray. But, that's just me.

    That’s helpful. Do you always use darker grey on darker colors and vice versa? I haven’t played with variations on what with what. Does it neutralize the color variation to have lighter grey on a darker panel and the reverse?
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    A big thanks to both of you.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    edited November 12 #617
    Looking good.

    I don't personally go all the way black or white on specular paneling, I go between light gray and dark gray. But, that's just me.

    That’s helpful. Do you always use darker grey on darker colors and vice versa? I haven’t played with variations on what with what. Does it neutralize the color variation to have lighter grey on a darker panel and the reverse?

    It really depends on what you're trying to achieve. I'd assume you're trying to copy the look of the TMP Enterprise, which was painted all white, with the exception of any colored bits. The only thing that made the paneling stick out is the different levels of shine to them. If that's the look you're going for, then having any color variation in your panels may not be the best way to go. A solid color with the paneling only applied to the specular channel will give you that look. If you do any color variation, I'd keep it very faint and definitely do lighter color spec for lighter panels and darker for darker panels.

    However, other ships definitely have color variation to their paneling, such as the Enterprise-D. It's done in different shades of blue. The shine levels also appear to be pretty consistent between the panels and it relies more on color variations to pick out the pattern. If that's more the look you're going for, then you want your specular levels to be fairly consistent between the colored panels. And, it's not like the Enterprise-D was the only ship to be painted this way.

    The Excelsior is kind of a blend of the two looks. Apart from having the different levels of shine, the Excelsior also had some color variation in its panels.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • furswiftfurswift133 Posts: 75Member
    For specularity, an interesting and aesthetically pleasing result can be achieved by making dark diffuse panels reflect bright and light diffuse panels reflect dark. Also keep in mind that totally black spec maps reflect nothing (since black gives a reflection value of zero). It's for that reason that I rarely use total black as a specular color. Use dark grey instead for areas of low reflectivity.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish1360 West of the right nutPosts: 3,933Member
    Max does not have specular, just roughness, gloss, ref, and aniso+rot. AFAIK spec is a fake scattered reflection added to LW back in the bab5 days to get a softer metalic reflection from a light source. SO if I take what it sounds like in modern LW it is pretty much a gloss interface. My gloss maps if I use one is often various shades of gray. As mentioned I rarely use 0,0,0 or 256,256,256 if your talking a typical grayscale range. I also make all my grayscale maps true gray scale. Usually use something like PNG that takes advantage of that for smaller files.
    Example:
    hull-gloss.png
    this one is just random crap, I do have some for aztec but rarely use it now. It would be a similar pattern but blocked for the aztec. KIM you'll likely want to alter aniso for the actual aztec pattern. But it is worth fooling around to see which results you prefer.

    Also here is a cap of the material parameters in max arch design materials to give you an idea on how to transfer these to LW.
    arch-mat.png


    I will also break up panels and map them differently if I am not unwrapping all of it as a solid thing. EG use tiled maps and just break up the panels so like laying bricks no single panel touches lengthwise another panel of the same mapping pattern. This helps break things up so you do not have textures or paneling spanning across plates. (a CGI dead giveaway)
    an example of detached panels. Each color is a seprate object then mapped, I will flip vert or horz eithe ror and both to get a different pattern per set of panels.
    https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/destroyer-2511.jpg
    same image rendered. I think this one shows it fairly clearly. It is subtle but helps sell things. Also helps cut down on all that math. It also allows me to do one material for the whole ship. Saucers are just flattened spherical projections. Just only need math for the divisions in the hull plates.
    https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/destroyer-2521.jpg
    here is a example of a pattern bleeding across panels.
    https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/destroyer-239.jpg
    I do all this to avoid unwrapping the ships.
    Projected aztec pattern onto a round hull surface. It sorta shows the various levels of gray. I also use in material image adjustments to flip or alter the tonality of the base texture so one texture can sit in for multiple effects. It also helps to not have to go in PSP photoshit gimp every few min to alter tonality.
    balmung-redo-787.png

    The pearl I used to use a mix of mix or composite fall offs in the "color" slot for reflections. You want to use a varied version of the same map to get the colors to match up with the reflective spec. I also used a mix of aniso and aniso rotation.
    insane mess to get a semi pearl color flop effect.
    https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/onimaru-flowchart.jpg

    Trek ships I often use a very flat but highly reflective surface. Only real departure is on the TOS connie as I ramp up the finish to a satin or buffed wax finish. This blurred reflectivity is what makes panels stand out as light passes over.

    I am really seeing a heavy bounce effect in the renders, those red/green tones across the hull is evidence for this. I dunno though what in LW you have to alter to control this as getting max to do it is very hard to even get a realistic amount of it.
    lewisniven
    • Like - lewisniven on November 19, 2019.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    You 3 have NO IDEA how helpful you have been. I can't wait to adjust what I have been doing based on your feedback.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    edited November 19 #621
    I've done a lot of improvement on the engines and am trying to paint everything now, using things you 3 taught me. I spent today taking all the engine and saucer and bridge work over to my 1701 A. This is progress but not there yet by any stretch. ...and yes I know the lettering is backwards. :)

    jhas112g5lho.png
    Post edited by Brandenberg on
    ashleytinger
    • Like - ashleytinger on November 19, 2019.
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 19, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 19, 2019.
    Loophole
    • Like - Loophole on November 19, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    It's looking good. A bit more tweaking and you're there.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    Working hard on the good old movie Enterprise.

    mmb8qzxmcysj.png
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 25, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 26, 2019.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    ydqr4iy7cfnz.png
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 25, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 26, 2019.
    Freak
    • Like - Freak on November 26, 2019.
    MadKoiFish
    • Like - MadKoiFish on November 26, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    That's looking great. I love the direct comparison shot.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    New: The color on the top of the main hull. Tweaks for shape and proportion accuracy. I discovered there were some things off on Big Jim's engine drawings.

    uojh5bttxaqn.png
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 26, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 26, 2019.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    That's looking great. I love the direct comparison shot.

    I put the original in the base layer, and my render in another and superimpose them. Then I fade the rendered image in and out and find errors and fix them. It's pretty close.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Yeah, Big Jim has a few inaccuracies, but they're probably still the most accurate plans.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg642 CaliforniaPosts: 1,141Member
    Yeah, Big Jim has a few inaccuracies, but they're probably still the most accurate plans.

    They certainly helped me get the bridge area correct.

    I've let this model languish for a long time because I so wanted to make it very accurate. I'm relieved I have tackled it again. I love the following angle of this movie Enterprise. It seems graceful.

    qwlkvc3c20vv.png
    evil_genius_180
    • Like - evil_genius_180 on November 26, 2019.
    Lizzy777
    • Like - Lizzy777 on November 26, 2019.
    Freak
    • Like - Freak on November 26, 2019.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_180916 Posts: 8,941Member
    Back when I actually used to draw by hand, I loved to draw the TMP Enterprise from the rear. There was just something about drawing those engines that I found deeply satisfying.
  • FreakFreak572 Posts: 3,635Member
    She is one fine looking ship!
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